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Men are weak, they can't help but to rape...

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I seriously can't believe some of the arguments made AGAINST the victim of this Steubenville rape case. 

DH and I were talking about it and he says its actually kinda insulting to guys to say those things because it's pretty much saying guys have so little self control that if a girl is dressed a certain way, they have to rape them. Or that a guy is so stupid he assumes a drunk girl not saying no, is technically consenting. I think DH is more pissed about this case then I am lol. 

But it got me thinking and he has a good point. Are men deemed and assumed to be so incredibly weak that we can't expect them to control themselves in the company of a woman wearing a little tight dress? I mean jeez...

Wife to an amazing, loving, and respectful man. Mommy to a handsome man who gets his kicks from making others smile, and a beautiful little girl with an old soul and nurturing spirit. Expecting in May.

by on Mar. 18, 2013 at 3:15 PM
Replies (31-40):
B1Bomber
by Ruby Member on Mar. 18, 2013 at 3:54 PM

My point is for the cases when they are BOTH drunk (as is typically the case with, say, college date rapes).


Quoting BettyBoop8:

No, he can't give consent if he is drunk.  If he is too drunk to give consent and she has sex with him, then she is guilty of rape. Equality.


Quoting B1Bomber:

So he can give consent while drunk, but she can't? He's automatically a rapist and she's a victim. So much for equality.


Quoting AnHpuresugar:

You can NOT give legal consent if you are intoxicated. A smart man with integrity would avoid the potential complications of sleeping with a drunk person.
lovinglife0682
by on Mar. 18, 2013 at 3:56 PM
I would never blame the victim but so believe sometimes there precautions that can be taken.


Quoting wulfeyes05:


There are plenty of precautions a woman can take, but you can't blame the victim. Just because a woman walks through an empty parking lot to her car by herself doesn't mean she is wearing a sign that says please come rape me now I've had a long day and need it. Rape is usually about power and humiliation.  They want to use and abuse the victim, tell them they wanted because they were wearing a low cut top, strike fear into them by saying if they say a word they'll be back. My sister was raped by a friend. She let her friend into her house and he raped her. The cops didn't believe her. All they heard is that she let him in the house so it couldn't have been rape. He wasn't arrested until he raped another girl. This girl had been drinking and said no. She almost didn't come forward because she had been drinking. She did and he's in prison.


Quoting lovinglife0682:

Unfortunately we can not prevent rape completely but we can decrease our chances by not putting ourselves in bad situations.





Quoting wulfeyes05:


There are plenty of times when the situation is not dangerous and bad stuff still happens. Like setting at home alone and some guy breaks in and rapes a woman. Like the pregnant woman that was raped and murdered after a man broke into her house. All other doors and windows were locked, but because she was vulnerable as an alone, pregnant woman the rapist ramped and killed her. Or the young woman who was raped by her martial arts buddies. They told her they were going to take her home, but raped her in the parking garage. These were men she trusted. They had all been drinking, but the guys knew what they were doing, they heard her say no. It was caught on camera. 



Quoting lovinglife0682:

Obviously and he is a sick person but we as women need to know that there are terrible men out there and not put ourselves in a potentially dangerous position.








Quoting wulfeyes05:


Alcohol skews judgement, but if a man is sober enough to transport his victim, sober enough to rape her, sober enough to take naked pictures of said victim and send them to every, and sober enough the next day to continue the humiliation then I think he knew full well what he was doing and just didn't give a shit. Obviously he wasn't that drunk.




Quoting B1Bomber:

There is the other side to this, too. (It DOES NOT apply to this case, but in general):

Why are women not held responsible for their sexual actions when they are drunk? They would be responsible if they got plastered and drove, or committed vandalism, or held a striptease on top of the bar. If she is passed out, that's one thing, but if she's been playing along all along, why would an also drunk guy think she was going to change her mind? If he's responsible for his drunken actions, why is she not responsible for hers?



















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lovemyhoney19
by Gold Member on Mar. 18, 2013 at 3:59 PM
This is very true. I haven't been keeping up with the story but where the heck were the girls parents? Why were those teenagers running around partying and drinking all night? It's all just so messed up.

Quoting notjstasocermom:

again, there's nothing wrong with saying a woman should be more cautious, that in no way implies anyone is blaming the victim

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Anonymous
by Anonymous 4 on Mar. 18, 2013 at 3:59 PM
Isn't that women are expected to cover in the Muslim religion? To make sure they don't tempt a man. Yeah, sounds just as stupid in both contexts.
wulfeyes05
by Ruby Member on Mar. 18, 2013 at 4:00 PM
1 mom liked this

I will agree that there are preventative measures that can be taken, but even if they aren't, even if the victim isn't thinking about her peers being rapists it's still not okay. Yes she could have stayed home instead of getting drunk, but she didn't and it still doesn't give these boys or any man the right to rape someone. 

Quoting lovinglife0682:

I would never blame the victim but so believe sometimes there precautions that can be taken.


Quoting wulfeyes05:


There are plenty of precautions a woman can take, but you can't blame the victim. Just because a woman walks through an empty parking lot to her car by herself doesn't mean she is wearing a sign that says please come rape me now I've had a long day and need it. Rape is usually about power and humiliation.  They want to use and abuse the victim, tell them they wanted because they were wearing a low cut top, strike fear into them by saying if they say a word they'll be back. My sister was raped by a friend. She let her friend into her house and he raped her. The cops didn't believe her. All they heard is that she let him in the house so it couldn't have been rape. He wasn't arrested until he raped another girl. This girl had been drinking and said no. She almost didn't come forward because she had been drinking. She did and he's in prison.


Quoting lovinglife0682:

Unfortunately we can not prevent rape completely but we can decrease our chances by not putting ourselves in bad situations.





Quoting wulfeyes05:


There are plenty of times when the situation is not dangerous and bad stuff still happens. Like setting at home alone and some guy breaks in and rapes a woman. Like the pregnant woman that was raped and murdered after a man broke into her house. All other doors and windows were locked, but because she was vulnerable as an alone, pregnant woman the rapist ramped and killed her. Or the young woman who was raped by her martial arts buddies. They told her they were going to take her home, but raped her in the parking garage. These were men she trusted. They had all been drinking, but the guys knew what they were doing, they heard her say no. It was caught on camera. 



Quoting lovinglife0682:

Obviously and he is a sick person but we as women need to know that there are terrible men out there and not put ourselves in a potentially dangerous position.








Quoting wulfeyes05:


Alcohol skews judgement, but if a man is sober enough to transport his victim, sober enough to rape her, sober enough to take naked pictures of said victim and send them to every, and sober enough the next day to continue the humiliation then I think he knew full well what he was doing and just didn't give a shit. Obviously he wasn't that drunk.




Quoting B1Bomber:

There is the other side to this, too. (It DOES NOT apply to this case, but in general):

Why are women not held responsible for their sexual actions when they are drunk? They would be responsible if they got plastered and drove, or committed vandalism, or held a striptease on top of the bar. If she is passed out, that's one thing, but if she's been playing along all along, why would an also drunk guy think she was going to change her mind? If he's responsible for his drunken actions, why is she not responsible for hers?





















Momniscient
by Ruby Member on Mar. 18, 2013 at 4:01 PM
1 mom liked this

Seriously.

I am so disgusted by the responses to this case.

lovinglife0682
by on Mar. 18, 2013 at 4:02 PM
1 mom liked this
No absolutely not and the man should be charged and punished severely.


Quoting wulfeyes05:

I will agree that there are preventative measures that can be taken, but even if they aren't, even if the victim isn't thinking about her peers being rapists it's still not okay. Yes she could have stayed home instead of getting drunk, but she didn't and it still doesn't give these boys or any man the right to rape someone. 


Quoting lovinglife0682:

I would never blame the victim but so believe sometimes there precautions that can be taken.





Quoting wulfeyes05:


There are plenty of precautions a woman can take, but you can't blame the victim. Just because a woman walks through an empty parking lot to her car by herself doesn't mean she is wearing a sign that says please come rape me now I've had a long day and need it. Rape is usually about power and humiliation.  They want to use and abuse the victim, tell them they wanted because they were wearing a low cut top, strike fear into them by saying if they say a word they'll be back. My sister was raped by a friend. She let her friend into her house and he raped her. The cops didn't believe her. All they heard is that she let him in the house so it couldn't have been rape. He wasn't arrested until he raped another girl. This girl had been drinking and said no. She almost didn't come forward because she had been drinking. She did and he's in prison.



Quoting lovinglife0682:

Unfortunately we can not prevent rape completely but we can decrease our chances by not putting ourselves in bad situations.








Quoting wulfeyes05:


There are plenty of times when the situation is not dangerous and bad stuff still happens. Like setting at home alone and some guy breaks in and rapes a woman. Like the pregnant woman that was raped and murdered after a man broke into her house. All other doors and windows were locked, but because she was vulnerable as an alone, pregnant woman the rapist ramped and killed her. Or the young woman who was raped by her martial arts buddies. They told her they were going to take her home, but raped her in the parking garage. These were men she trusted. They had all been drinking, but the guys knew what they were doing, they heard her say no. It was caught on camera. 




Quoting lovinglife0682:

Obviously and he is a sick person but we as women need to know that there are terrible men out there and not put ourselves in a potentially dangerous position.











Quoting wulfeyes05:


Alcohol skews judgement, but if a man is sober enough to transport his victim, sober enough to rape her, sober enough to take naked pictures of said victim and send them to every, and sober enough the next day to continue the humiliation then I think he knew full well what he was doing and just didn't give a shit. Obviously he wasn't that drunk.





Quoting B1Bomber:

There is the other side to this, too. (It DOES NOT apply to this case, but in general):

Why are women not held responsible for their sexual actions when they are drunk? They would be responsible if they got plastered and drove, or committed vandalism, or held a striptease on top of the bar. If she is passed out, that's one thing, but if she's been playing along all along, why would an also drunk guy think she was going to change her mind? If he's responsible for his drunken actions, why is she not responsible for hers?





























Posted on the NEW CafeMom Mobile
B1Bomber
by Ruby Member on Mar. 18, 2013 at 4:05 PM

False rapes account for only about 8% of reports. I'm not talking about those.Those are awful because they contribute to the idea that tons of women are just making it up (obviously not true). I'm talking about women who legitimately believe they were wronged.

I'm just trying to point out the fact that there is a lack of personal responsibility (and logic) when it comes to sex. Two drunk people have sex, she didn't want to but didn't say so, he's a rapist.

BTW, I think sex causes ridiculous lacks of logic in many cases, not just rape. Take the public high schools that are offering hormonal birth control without parental consent or knowledge, the same high schools that need a dr's note to dispense Tylenol. How does that make sense?


Quoting AnHpuresugar:

Have you ever been through a rape trial?  I have.  No sane person goes through that without a lot of emotional turmoil.  The victim is blamed and ripped apart by the police, the friends, the community and the lawyers.  Rape is UNDERREPORTED because women just want to forget.  There may be some women that cry rape falsely but not as many as everyone would have you believe.  It is utter hell to have to go through the criminal justice process.  It is invasive and demeaning.  



Quoting B1Bomber:

I was extrapolating from the comment that you can't give consent if you are intoxicated. If both a man and a woman are drunk and have sex and the next day she doesn't remember giving consent and charges him with rape (as would be legal), why does the law not protect his lack of ability to consent as well? Why is he held responsible and she protected?

It's defies the concept of equality. That's all.


Quoting AnHpuresugar:

Where did I say that? NO ONE can give consent while drunk. Before the bashing begins, I don't give a flying fig if you enjoy drunken sex with your SO or DH. That isn't what we are talking about.





Anonymous
by Anonymous 5 on Mar. 18, 2013 at 4:07 PM
The one element that is being ignored here, is the guys recorded the incident and took pics and posted that stuff on the internet, bragging about what they did to this girl, therefore incriminating themselves.

Quoting B1Bomber:

There is the other side to this, too. (It DOES NOT apply to this case, but in general):

Why are women not held responsible for their sexual actions when they are drunk? They would be responsible if they got plastered and drove, or committed vandalism, or held a striptease on top of the bar. If she is passed out, that's one thing, but if she's been playing along all along, why would an also drunk guy think she was going to change her mind? If he's responsible for his drunken actions, why is she not responsible for hers?

SusieQue717
by Gold Member on Mar. 18, 2013 at 4:08 PM

No, I think that men have the same exact control that women do. That they are able to get away with more is because women allow them to. I was talking to my husband about this as well, and although I agree with that men are visually stimulated more than women, it doesn't justify a man raping a woman based on her clothing. If he can't control his urges, he needs to be locked up. It's not like a dog humping a woman's leg... We're talking a person going too far with another person. 

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