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Mom Confessions Mom Confessions

Against Gay Marriage for Religious Reasons.

Posted by Anonymous   + Show Post

I'm curious.  If the reason you are against homosexuality is because of what is written in the bible, I can respect that.  I disagree, and interpret the text different, but you are entitles to that belief.  My question is, why do you think that this is a justifiable reason to make gay marriage illegal, when there is seperation between church and state.

I whole-heartedly believe that seperation between church and state is completely necessary.   I do not want religion to dictate the way we are governed and I do not want government to tell my church how to preach.

I'm sure this post has been done before, if so, I was not around for it. 

 

Enlighten me.

Posted by Anonymous on Apr. 8, 2013 at 10:31 PM
Replies (101-110):
momto2boys973
by Ruby Member on Apr. 8, 2013 at 11:26 PM
1 mom liked this
Quoting FoxFire363:

"He was not the god of the Babylonians, Egyptians or Hindus however. And Jews would not appreciate you calling marriage a Christian institution, I am sure."

I don't know about other Jews, I personally find that Christian ethnocentrism bordering on comical :)
I always wonder, if marriage is a "Christian institution", what were Abraham and Sara? Isaac and Rebbeca? Moses and Tzipporah? Shacking up? Lol
Cbreland07
by Ruby Member on Apr. 8, 2013 at 11:26 PM
In no way was I being offensive so I can help it if you choose to be offended. I never said anything about Jesus. I mentioned God which is the God of the Jews according to the bible.


Quoting Bookwormy:

Jesus isn't my god! If you believe Jesus is god, then you do not speak for Jews!



You are offensive.




Quoting Cbreland07:

And who my dear was the God of the Jews?? He created the institution of marriage. I have read the entire bible multiple times and odd thing... The God in the New Testament was the same God in the Old Testament. I say a Christian institution just to use today's terms, but the fact is God created it for a man and a woman. Just because secular world has used it as well doesn't change who created it






Quoting FoxFire363:

She seems to be unaware that the Jews were getting married before their Messiah came along (for those that decided he was said Messiah), of course modern Jews are still getting married and they aren't Christian either. Maybe she should take a peek at the Old Testament, marriage is mentioned a bunch in there. Let's see, the Code of Hammurabi has laws that are applicable to marriage and that predates Christianity as well. So, why would ancient Babylonians need marriage laws if they weren't getting married? Ancient Egyptians got married pre-Christianity. Hindus get married, too. Hardly a Christian insitution. I bet you and I could list lots of examples here for her education. 





Quoting delilahsmom1177:

Like everything happened because of Christ!!!! 

Quoting FoxFire363:

Marriage is hardly a Christian institution considering that it predates Christianity by thousands of years. Why do you think that marriage occurs in non-Christian countries if it is a "Christian institution"? sidesplittinglaughter





Quoting Cbreland07:

I honestly don't believe they were born that way and this shouldn't have special treatment for the way they chose to live their lives. Not to mention the fact that its not about love but the benefits they can get from marriage. Most if not all of which can be gained by power of attorneys for each. Also marriage is a Christian institution so I have a hard time believing that its anything more than just trying to force Christians to accept what we are against















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Bookwormy
by on Apr. 8, 2013 at 11:27 PM
1 mom liked this
Leper colonies for gays are unacceptable. Maybe if we have leper colonies for homophobes...


Quoting Anonymous:

It isn't for RELIGIOUS reasons. It is for moral reasons. Yes, my morality is rooted in the Bible. However, murder is also forbidden in the Bible. Should we make murder legal because the Bible says it is wrong, for reasons of separation of church and state? I don't think so.

If you look at  what has happened to our society and families since divorce has been made legal and acceptable, you can see what further loosening of standards will do.

If we could live separately from one another, I'd be fine with it. All the people that support gay marriage could live happily together, and all of us who don't support it could live blissfully with one another. I just don't want my kids exposed to such immorality. Unfortunately, separation isn't possible.



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FoxFire363
by Ruby Member on Apr. 8, 2013 at 11:27 PM

You are stupid not because of your religious beliefs, but because you are attempting to claim ownership for your religion of a civil institution that is a societal construct that predates your religion. I have cited multiple examples for you of other belief systems that predate your religion that practiced marriage and you stubbornly insist that it is a "Christian institution." You can't just admit that YOUR marriage is a Christian marriage, but that other people's are not necessarily such. To you, is a Hindu marriage illegitimate because it was not performed under the authority of your god? Your claims are illogical and ridiculous. I am completely tolerant of your right to believe what you want, but I am not tolerant of your right to claim an entire institution for your own group. I could, just as easily, and in fact MORE legitimately claim that marriage is a pagan institution. We practiced it before you did, and I believe that MY deities created the Earth and everything in it, not yours (your logic, not mine there, I'm just turning it around on you. My logic only would require the fact that we practiced it first and therefore invented it. The Authorship of Creation is irrelevant to this debate in my opinion, but you used it as your ONLY claim to back up your argument). I was referring to your perceived intelligence and skill at debate, not your beliefs, dear. 


Quoting Cbreland07:

Why am I stupid for believing differently from you? I'm sorry bit where is the acceptance you preach? Why must I accept what you believe but you call names like a child when I stuck to my beliefs. The hypocrisy of this whole debate is laughable. I must accept you but you don't have to accept me. You can force your beliefs on me by wanting to change something I consider sacred but I can't do the same without being called stupid, judgemental, bigot, or full if hatred. I can honestly say I get more aggression from gay ppl than I give them.


Quoting FoxFire363:

Yeah, she finally quoted me to explain why she believes that. Sadly, she's clearly just plain stupid. 



Quoting delilahsmom1177:

Oh i am sure we could. The ignorance is so sad to be honest. I am glad I was taught about all faiths as a child.

Quoting FoxFire363:

She seems to be unaware that the Jews were getting married before their Messiah came along (for those that decided he was said Messiah), of course modern Jews are still getting married and they aren't Christian either. Maybe she should take a peek at the Old Testament, marriage is mentioned a bunch in there. Let's see, the Code of Hammurabi has laws that are applicable to marriage and that predates Christianity as well. So, why would ancient Babylonians need marriage laws if they weren't getting married? Ancient Egyptians got married pre-Christianity. Hindus get married, too. Hardly a Christian insitution. I bet you and I could list lots of examples here for her education. 



Quoting delilahsmom1177:

Like everything happened because of Christ!!!! 

Quoting FoxFire363:

Marriage is hardly a Christian institution considering that it predates Christianity by thousands of years. Why do you think that marriage occurs in non-Christian countries if it is a "Christian institution"? sidesplittinglaughter



Quoting Cbreland07:

I honestly don't believe they were born that way and this shouldn't have special treatment for the way they chose to live their lives. Not to mention the fact that its not about love but the benefits they can get from marriage. Most if not all of which can be gained by power of attorneys for each. Also marriage is a Christian institution so I have a hard time believing that its anything more than just trying to force Christians to accept what we are against















Cbreland07
by Ruby Member on Apr. 8, 2013 at 11:28 PM
I do follow all of it as best as I can.. If you speak of Old Testament laws, if you read the bible through you would know why those arent followed


Quoting Anonymous:

If Christians are going to follow the bible, follow all of it. Not just pick parts that you want to follow.


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sweetr0se
by on Apr. 8, 2013 at 11:29 PM


lmao..I'm new to this site and got your signature mixed..sorry

Maybe rephrase the question because I guess i'm not understanding! 

Quoting delilahsmom1177:

I'm iterested in your anwers to my questions. I will wait.

Quoting sweetr0se:


I'm interested...how am I "ignorant"? And why pity me?  lol

Quoting Anonymous:

Aw I don't hate anyone for ignorance. I pity them.

Quoting sweetr0se:


So just because what I believe in makes me stupid?? At least I'm not under Anonymus! I'm proud of who I am and I don't care what I'm called! I'll ALWAYS believe in what I do, even if I'm hated or whatever!

Quoting Anonymous:

Quoting sweetr0se:

There are a lot of things in the bible that tell you what's morally right and wrong! You just have to read and study it! 

The ONLY sins that you have listed is that you're pro gay & pagen! But if you're asking what it takes to be saved, very simple just believe that he's your savior! I've also battled depression for a very long time!

Quoting delilahsmom1177:

So how many other things should YOUR god tell me to do?

Quoting sweetr0se:

Because i don't think that gov't and Christianity should be seperated in the first place, gay marriage is immoral! End of story for me! 













Anonymous
by Anonymous 1 - Original Poster on Apr. 8, 2013 at 11:30 PM
The wall of separation happy now? Geesh.


Quoting Anonymous:


Oh and btw, you won't find the words separation of church and state at all.


Quoting Anonymous:

You wont find the words Slave or Slavery (until it's abolished) either yet it is implied and well known that it existed. 




Quoting Anonymous:




No that's not what is implied and Jefferson wrote a letter to the Danbury Baptists that ised the phrase "wall of separatin between church and state" and it was used totally out of context to creat what we now know as separation of church and state. The first amendemnet says it is illegal for Congress to establish a national religion and that it is illegal for Congress to prohibit the free exercise of any religion. It was written as protection for religion from the government, but not as protection of the government from religion.


Quoting Anonymous:


 No the words "seperation of church and state" is not in our consitution but that is what is implied, Jefferson specifically used those words to describe the first amendment...and we still use it today.  So...I'm not sure what you're point is?




Quoting Anonymous:




Show me where it says it. I'll wait.


Quoting momof2girls89:


Um.....


Quoting Anonymous:


Separation of church and state is not in the Constitution.























FoxFire363
by Ruby Member on Apr. 8, 2013 at 11:30 PM

I just told her that I could just as easily, and perhaps more accurately claim that it is a pagan institution, given that we practiced it first. My personal belief on the subject: marriage is a HUMAN institution. It does not belong to one group or religion any more so than any other. BTW, you aren't the only other Jewish mom to find her claim laughable, there was another reply about it, lol. I mean, if she's wanting to claim it as an Abrahamic tradition, I'd think you guys would get first dibs there. 


Quoting momto2boys973:

Quoting FoxFire363:



"He was not the god of the Babylonians, Egyptians or Hindus however. And Jews would not appreciate you calling marriage a Christian institution, I am sure."

I don't know about other Jews, I personally find that Christian ethnocentrism bordering on comical :)



handy0318
by Platinum Member on Apr. 8, 2013 at 11:30 PM
2 moms liked this


OK... I can get what you're saying.  But then we are guilty of applying God's principles haphazardly. If we are going to force our entire nation to live by God's principles, then we need to outlaw divorce, for God hates divorce. Oh, and marriage between non-Christians and Christians, because God states we are not to be unequally yoked.


OOORRRR....

We could recognize that forcing non-Christians to live according to God's principles, when they do not have His Spirit to convict and guide them, is only going to result in the non-Christians becoming even more frustrated and resistant to the gospel than they already are.

As Christians, you and I can and should keep marriage according to God's principles.  But, even God Himself doesn't tell us to dictate to the world how they should marry or not. His laws and precepts are for His people to obey.  We are not to set ourselves up as judges to the world, but to separate ourselves from them (1Corinthians 5:9-13)

As Americans... to remain a nation that is ruled by law and to apply the Constitution equally, then we truly must allow gay marriage.  Both as a matter of equal protection under the law and as a matter of Freedom of Religion.  Because there are some religions in which gay marriage is perfectly acceptable and to forbid it is to interfere with their freedom of religion. 

Quoting Cbreland07:

Lol as a Christian it is an institution created by God and therefore a Christian institution.
So if they get special treatment then whose to stop ppl from marrying their dogs? They fact is, they aren't getting special treatment now, they are choosing to live a lifestyle where marriage is forbidden. They are living by the same rules as everyone else, they just chose to be on the other side of it.




Quoting handy0318:


I don't see how you can say that marriage is a Christian institution... all cultures recognize marriage in various forms throughout the world.  Do you believe that no other religions have marriage except Christianity?

As far as having "special treatment" for the way they chose to live their lives, that is what they are arguing against.

As of now, they are treated "specially"... specifically in that they cannot marry whom they love.  Any heterosexual can marry the person they love. But gays are treated in a special way in that they are forbidden by law to marry the person of their choice.


Quoting Cbreland07:

I honestly don't believe they were born that way and this shouldn't have special treatment for the way they chose to live their lives. Not to mention the fact that its not about love but the benefits they can get from marriage. Most if not all of which can be gained by power of attorneys for each. Also marriage is a Christian institution so I have a hard time believing that its anything more than just trying to force Christians to accept what we are against







sweetr0se
by on Apr. 8, 2013 at 11:31 PM


EVERYONE falls short! No one is perfect, so why should Christians be? The only perfect person in the world was Jesus and if anyone says they are perfect or deserve heaven they are kidding themselves! 

Quoting Cbreland07:

I do follow all of it as best as I can.. If you speak of Old Testament laws, if you read the bible through you would know why those arent followed


Quoting Anonymous:

If Christians are going to follow the bible, follow all of it. Not just pick parts that you want to follow.




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