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ETA** please help me understand this (gay, transgender, etc related)

Posted by Anonymous   + Show Post

on another post about the defense of marriage act being kicked one of the first comments was "equality for all" and I hear this all the time. I get it. I get what it means. What I don't get is the general double-standard. What I mean is what about the teen who wants to be in a consenting relationship with an adult? I always hear things like "they are still a kid, they aren't mature enough to make that type of decision" or "they aren't legally allowed to make that decision"  and other things of the sort. Yet, on the topic of transgender toddlers or kids the majority of the opinions agree that a 6 year old is old enough or mature enough to make THAT decision...the decision with which gender they relate. I don't get the apparent double-standard.

please explain this...without saying "it's not the same". clearly, it's not EXACTLY the same. however, I do think they are comparable scenarios. and no, I'm not being judgmental or a bigot, nor am I trying to be rude. I sincerely do wish to understand the hypocrisy that seems to be involved here. why is a teen not old enough to enter the relationship they choose...yet, a six year old is old enough to decide they are living in the wrong body?



ETA: for those of you who cannot read, I mentioned nothing about said teen entering a sexual relationship...not all relationships are sex based. Therefor many of your responses are invalid. Also, yes I understand that being transgender does not mean being gay

Posted by Anonymous on Jun. 26, 2013 at 11:00 AM
Replies (91-99):
Anonymous
by Anonymous - Original Poster on Jun. 26, 2013 at 1:13 PM

I know ;)


Quoting -_-:

Yeah... I was kidding.

Quoting Anonymous:


lol I'm sexually attracted to hugh jackman too...doesn't mean I want to be in a relationship with him. I'm in an awesome marriage with my husband whom I'm very much in love with and attracted to beyond belief. I have no desire for anyone else ;)


Quoting -_-:

Maybe you should be. I'm just sayin.



Quoting Anonymous:

sexual relationship and sexual attraction are two totally different things. i'm sexually attracted to some of my female friends...doesn't mean I'm in a sexual relationship with them.




Quoting ktwister:

Yes, it's a relationship based on a sexual attraction to each other, whether they act on those or wait, it's still based on that.




Quoting -_-:

Are 2 adults that believe in waiting until marriage also in a sexual relationship?





Quoting ktwister:

Say it however you would like, a minor and adult dating is a sexual relationship, whether physical sex is taking place, it is still a sexual relationship.

That is not and never will be the same thing as allowing a minor child to decide to live how they feel most comfortable.





Quoting Anonymous:

I never said there wasn't attraction. I said a relationship doesn't have to be sexual. I dated dh for 5 years before we had sex, then 6 mos later we got married. i had just turned 14 and he had just turned 17. we've been married for 16 years





Quoting ktwister:

 Oh please, saying an adult and minor dating not being sexual is a joke, there is a sexual attraction between the two. 
























purpleducky
by Ruby Member on Jun. 26, 2013 at 1:20 PM

My mother denied my feelings. She said I would get over it. Now I am going to ramble about this comparision (sorry, this is how I am).

A person (of any age) who is transgender basically hates who they are. We all use different language to describe it, but at its core that is what I believe we all are admitting to. We cannot stand the skin we are in. And to change one's gender is as simple as changing how one dresses, cuts his or her hair, and presents oneself. It can be reversed at any time. When you deny a person the ability to be who they are, you are denying who they are and your love and acceptance of them. It completely negates who they are.

Now a teenager in a serious relationship, as long as it isn't sexual, I honestly have no issue with it. However, it is not comparable because generally adolescent relationships are based on sexual attraction. In addition, the feelings are for another and based on lust or love. This lust or love can blind a person, especially a teenager, to the dangers of a person. How many women on here were so blinded by it that they ended up in an abusive relationship? Ergo, there needs to be parental guidance in this regard. I am not saying there doesn't need to be parental guidance for transgender children, because there has to be. And yes transgender children can be blind to the dangers of what it means to be transgender, hence the need for parental guidance. 

Basically, at the essence of both arguments, both require parental guidance and possibly a middle ground. However, stating that one making the decision to be who they are is the same as a teenager deciding to date an adult is wrong in my opinion. One is based on the feelings for oneself and the other is based on the feelings for others and more easily blinded by lust.

Quoting Anonymous:

I wondered if you might comment. being that you are transgender, had your parents preferred that you waited until adulthood to express your feelings would your life have been any worse? Keep in mind I really don't know at what age you expressed your feelings... or much of your background

the only comparison I'm making is why do we trust kids to make one decision for themselves but not another? and yes,  outwardly expressing ones feelings is a choice.

admittedly, I'm pretty ignorant on the topic...but that's why I'm asking the questions that I am.

Quoting purpleducky:

A relationship is different than gender. They are not comparable.




Anonymous
by Anonymous - Original Poster on Jun. 26, 2013 at 1:20 PM



Quoting LilyofPhilly:

Where to start?
A 6 year old transgendered kid isn't making a decision, he or she just is who he or she is. A gay kid isn't making a decision either. He just is a gay kid. Allowing a transgendered child to dress and act in the gender a child she feels she is is a decision to be made between the parents, the child, and the child's therapist.
I see what you're saying..and I agree that it is a decision to be made by adults. sadly this just isn't the case. children are saying they have gender issues and parents are automatically supporting their desires to live outward lives as opposite genders.
This decision would be based on what's best for the child. Medical interventions are not the child's decision. Again, parents and physicians are involved in that decision. The decision should favor the best interest of the child.
IMO the best interest of the child should be to wait until adulthood to make that decision on their own. kids change their minds so frequently about how they feel and what they want. Hell, most adults can't make decent decisions. how can we put such a responsibility on kids?
We, most of us civilized people, would not allow our teenage children to get married, let along marry a grown adult. Knowing what we know about the development of a teen's brain and body, it is clear that marriage is not in the best interest of teenagers. Argauments could be made for individual circumstances, but it's generally not in a teen's best interest.
You're correct. Yet, most parents say they would support their daugter in her choice to cary a baby...to be a teen mother. IMO baing a mom is far more taxing than a marriage.



Anonymous
by Anonymous - Original Poster on Jun. 26, 2013 at 1:29 PM

Thank you. after 90 sum odd replies I do have a better understanding. I'm not sure I can agree fully with some of what you've said (not just yet anyway), but I do actually have food for thought and will actually consider, and respect, what you've said. 

I like to question my own beliefs from time to time in an effort to remain as unbiased as I can. I like having real reasons why I do or don't think a certain way...not just because that's what I was taught or because that's just how I feel.

I appreciate your views and taking the time to maturely address the topic at hand... and I do not consider your response as rambling :)


Quoting purpleducky:

My mother denied my feelings. She said I would get over it. Now I am going to ramble about this comparision (sorry, this is how I am).

A person (of any age) who is transgender basically hates who they are. We all use different language to describe it, but at its core that is what I believe we all are admitting to. We cannot stand the skin we are in. And to change one's gender is as simple as changing how one dresses, cuts his or her hair, and presents oneself. It can be reversed at any time. When you deny a person the ability to be who they are, you are denying who they are and your love and acceptance of them. It completely negates who they are.

Now a teenager in a serious relationship, as long as it isn't sexual, I honestly have no issue with it. However, it is not comparable because generally adolescent relationships are based on sexual attraction. In addition, the feelings are for another and based on lust or love. This lust or love can blind a person, especially a teenager, to the dangers of a person. How many women on here were so blinded by it that they ended up in an abusive relationship? Ergo, there needs to be parental guidance in this regard. I am not saying there doesn't need to be parental guidance for transgender children, because there has to be. And yes transgender children can be blind to the dangers of what it means to be transgender, hence the need for parental guidance. 

Basically, at the essence of both arguments, both require parental guidance and possibly a middle ground. However, stating that one making the decision to be who they are is the same as a teenager deciding to date an adult is wrong in my opinion. One is based on the feelings for oneself and the other is based on the feelings for others and more easily blinded by lust.

Quoting Anonymous:

I wondered if you might comment. being that you are transgender, had your parents preferred that you waited until adulthood to express your feelings would your life have been any worse? Keep in mind I really don't know at what age you expressed your feelings... or much of your background

the only comparison I'm making is why do we trust kids to make one decision for themselves but not another? and yes,  outwardly expressing ones feelings is a choice.

admittedly, I'm pretty ignorant on the topic...but that's why I'm asking the questions that I am.

Quoting purpleducky:

A relationship is different than gender. They are not comparable.






purpleducky
by Ruby Member on Jun. 26, 2013 at 1:30 PM

I'm glad I could help. If you ever have questions you can ask. I am more than wiling to answer.

Quoting Anonymous:

Thank you. after 90 sum odd replies I do have a better understanding. I'm not sure I can agree fully with some of what you've said (not just yet anyway), but I do actually have food for thought and will actually consider, and respect, what you've said. 

I like to question my own beliefs from time to time in an effort to remain as unbiased as I can. I like having real reasons why I do or don't think a certain way...not just because that's what I was taught or because that's just how I feel.

I appreciate your views and taking the time to maturely address the topic at hand... and I do not consider your response as rambling :)


Quoting purpleducky:

My mother denied my feelings. She said I would get over it. Now I am going to ramble about this comparision (sorry, this is how I am).

A person (of any age) who is transgender basically hates who they are. We all use different language to describe it, but at its core that is what I believe we all are admitting to. We cannot stand the skin we are in. And to change one's gender is as simple as changing how one dresses, cuts his or her hair, and presents oneself. It can be reversed at any time. When you deny a person the ability to be who they are, you are denying who they are and your love and acceptance of them. It completely negates who they are.

Now a teenager in a serious relationship, as long as it isn't sexual, I honestly have no issue with it. However, it is not comparable because generally adolescent relationships are based on sexual attraction. In addition, the feelings are for another and based on lust or love. This lust or love can blind a person, especially a teenager, to the dangers of a person. How many women on here were so blinded by it that they ended up in an abusive relationship? Ergo, there needs to be parental guidance in this regard. I am not saying there doesn't need to be parental guidance for transgender children, because there has to be. And yes transgender children can be blind to the dangers of what it means to be transgender, hence the need for parental guidance. 

Basically, at the essence of both arguments, both require parental guidance and possibly a middle ground. However, stating that one making the decision to be who they are is the same as a teenager deciding to date an adult is wrong in my opinion. One is based on the feelings for oneself and the other is based on the feelings for others and more easily blinded by lust.

Quoting Anonymous:

I wondered if you might comment. being that you are transgender, had your parents preferred that you waited until adulthood to express your feelings would your life have been any worse? Keep in mind I really don't know at what age you expressed your feelings... or much of your background

the only comparison I'm making is why do we trust kids to make one decision for themselves but not another? and yes,  outwardly expressing ones feelings is a choice.

admittedly, I'm pretty ignorant on the topic...but that's why I'm asking the questions that I am.

Quoting purpleducky:

A relationship is different than gender. They are not comparable.







Benjamins-mama
by Platinum Member on Jun. 26, 2013 at 1:51 PM
umm you can't be this naive. a lot of teens are having sex. so unless you are following every single teen alive you can't possibly know if they are having sex or not.
Quoting Anonymous:



Quoting Benjamins-mama:

the 6 year old isn't having sex.... 

neither is the teen

   so they aren't comparable.  one is feeling like they were born in the wrong body or the wrong gender.  where as the other one wants to date an older person.  not the same at all

the comparison lies in children being able to make adult decisions and teens not...why the double-standard?





Anonymous
by Anonymous - Original Poster on Jun. 26, 2013 at 1:54 PM

I'm not saying NO TEENS have sex. I'm saying in the hypothetical situation in my op that the teen there is not...I was that teen, kinda. except my mom allowed me to date the guy...and now, 16 years later, we are still happily married.


Quoting Benjamins-mama:

umm you can't be this naive. a lot of teens are having sex. so unless you are following every single teen alive you can't possibly know if they are having sex or not.
Quoting Anonymous:



Quoting Benjamins-mama:

the 6 year old isn't having sex.... 

neither is the teen

   so they aren't comparable.  one is feeling like they were born in the wrong body or the wrong gender.  where as the other one wants to date an older person.  not the same at all

the comparison lies in children being able to make adult decisions and teens not...why the double-standard?






LilyofPhilly
by Platinum Member on Jun. 26, 2013 at 2:52 PM
Who is letting their child automatically live a different gender? Can you be more specific? Medical interventions fir transgendered kids, and by this I mean hormone therapy, is in their best interest if the teenager is sure of her identity. Transgenderism isn't some passing whim. I find the comparison offensive. The point if the hormone therapy is to diminish the effects of puberty. It's so the man or woman can look more like the gender they feel they are. That is in the best interest of the child.

Quoting Anonymous:




Quoting LilyofPhilly:

Where to start?

A 6 year old transgendered kid isn't making a decision, he or she just is who he or she is. A gay kid isn't making a decision either. He just is a gay kid. Allowing a transgendered child to dress and act in the gender a child she feels she is is a decision to be made between the parents, the child, and the child's therapist.
I see what you're saying..and I agree that it is a decision to be made by adults. sadly this just isn't the case. children are saying they have gender issues and parents are automatically supporting their desires to live outward lives as opposite genders.
This decision would be based on what's best for the child. Medical interventions are not the child's decision. Again, parents and physicians are involved in that decision. The decision should favor the best interest of the child.
IMO the best interest of the child should be to wait until adulthood to make that decision on their own. kids change their minds so frequently about how they feel and what they want. Hell, most adults can't make decent decisions. how can we put such a responsibility on kids?

We, most of us civilized people, would not allow our teenage children to get married, let along marry a grown adult. Knowing what we know about the development of a teen's brain and body, it is clear that marriage is not in the best interest of teenagers. Argauments could be made for individual circumstances, but it's generally not in a teen's best interest.
You're correct. Yet, most parents say they would support their daugter in her choice to cary a baby...to be a teen mother. IMO baing a mom is far more taxing than a marriage.




Anonymous
by Anonymous - Original Poster on Jun. 26, 2013 at 3:09 PM

I don't really get what you're offended about...

More specific? ok, there is currently a 6 year old boy who is identifying as a girl. the parents have petitioned (legally) that their child be allowed to use the girl's restroom. there are many other recent stories of parents allowing this same thing. honestly, the fact that they are transgender is not what bothers me. it's the fact that they are allowing their kids to make the decision as KIDS. when I was dating my now dh at 17 I begged my mom to allow me to marry him before I was 18. we had dated since I was 14, and I had already graduated HS. Her reply was that she felt uncomfortable allowing me to make such an adult decision when I was not an adult. Of course I did marry him. But it wasn't because my mom signed a paper allowing me to as a minor. It was 0because I was old enough to decide for myself that I wanted to and I didn't need her permission. All I'm saying is why not give the same answer to a 6 year old who may temporarily feel like the wrong gender. God forbid they grow up and realize they were just going through a phase (I know not all will experience that, but I have seen it happen).

No, transgenderism is not a passing whim...which is why it should be treated more seriously than allowing children to make that decision.

And hormone therapy?? sorry but I do not feel that is appropriate for minors...


Quoting LilyofPhilly:

Who is letting their child automatically live a different gender? Can you be more specific? Medical interventions fir transgendered kids, and by this I mean hormone therapy, is in their best interest if the teenager is sure of her identity. Transgenderism isn't some passing whim. I find the comparison offensive. The point if the hormone therapy is to diminish the effects of puberty. It's so the man or woman can look more like the gender they feel they are. That is in the best interest of the child.

Quoting Anonymous:




Quoting LilyofPhilly:

Where to start?

A 6 year old transgendered kid isn't making a decision, he or she just is who he or she is. A gay kid isn't making a decision either. He just is a gay kid. Allowing a transgendered child to dress and act in the gender a child she feels she is is a decision to be made between the parents, the child, and the child's therapist.
I see what you're saying..and I agree that it is a decision to be made by adults. sadly this just isn't the case. children are saying they have gender issues and parents are automatically supporting their desires to live outward lives as opposite genders.
This decision would be based on what's best for the child. Medical interventions are not the child's decision. Again, parents and physicians are involved in that decision. The decision should favor the best interest of the child.
IMO the best interest of the child should be to wait until adulthood to make that decision on their own. kids change their minds so frequently about how they feel and what they want. Hell, most adults can't make decent decisions. how can we put such a responsibility on kids?

We, most of us civilized people, would not allow our teenage children to get married, let along marry a grown adult. Knowing what we know about the development of a teen's brain and body, it is clear that marriage is not in the best interest of teenagers. Argauments could be made for individual circumstances, but it's generally not in a teen's best interest.
You're correct. Yet, most parents say they would support their daugter in her choice to cary a baby...to be a teen mother. IMO baing a mom is far more taxing than a marriage.






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