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How can anyone believe Jesus existed? (spin off - "there is TONS of evidence of Jesus existence, that's why I believe")

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How can anyone take Christianity or the belief in Jesus seriously after educating themselves about Biblical history?



1st century of "our lord" was 0AD-100AD

Jesus supposedly lived in the first 3 decades dying somewhere around 33AD

the Gospels all come later.. Mark was the first and the others (Matthew, Luke, John) were derived from the first.

Mark mentions destruction of the temple which happens approx 70AD - and the gospels come much later than that

There is a gap of 4 decades or more
- most of what we know from this period comes from a man who says Christ came to him in a vision (Apostle Paul or Saul) and said he was told to spread the "word of Jesus Christ" and he wrote about 80,000 words about the "Christian religion" which represent almost ALL we have about the history of Christianity during this decades-long gap.

But - if Jesus was a human who had recently lived - nobody told Paul.

Paul never heard of Mary, Joseph, Bethlehem, John the baptist, any of the miracles, never quotes anything Jesus was suppose to have said, never mentions Jesus having a ministry of any kind, doesn't know about any entrance into Jerusalem, Jewish mob or any trials at all.

The only part of the Jesus story Paul knows is the last 3 events (crucifixion, resurrection, ascension) which he NEVER places on earth.

Just like the other gods of the time, Paul's Christ died, rose and ascended all in a mythical realm.

Paul didn't believe that Jesus was a human being. He wasn't even aware of the idea AND HE IS THE LINK between the time frame given for the life of Jesus and the first Gospel account of god!




Makes me wonder how people have survived this long..

Doesn't anyone value things like reason and critical thinking? 



by on Nov. 21, 2013 at 6:02 PM
Replies (61-70):
danie24
by Ruby Member on Nov. 21, 2013 at 7:22 PM
1 mom liked this
For the same reason I studied child psychology and child development when I wasn't a mother. Do you really only educate yourself to solidify your preconceived notions rather than broaden your education? That sounds rather sad. And quite boring. And I don't have to tell you where I went to school. Naming a school doesn't prove to you I attended or what I studied there. I could name any school. Try sticking at the topic at hand. Nothing I said was inaccurate. Instead of trying to find out where I live, why not explain away the ridiculousness of believing a man-god existed when the witness himself saw him in a vision rather than in real life.
Quoting jobseeker:


Why would you study religion if you are an athiest?  

If you truly studied biblical history you would know that the gospels were not written directly by Matthew Mark Luke and John, but by thier followers and yes, were compiled years after the deaths of the apostles they were attributed to.  They were written at  a time when oral tradition was practiced much more faithfully than it is in modern times, and that the cannon of the new testament was compiled at a certain counsel commonly referred to as the counsel of (______)  fil in the blank and I will know you studied what you say you studied.

by the the way, you still did not answer the question, where did you study biblical history?

Quoting danie24:


I studied religion, philosophy and biblical history when I was in University.

None of what I wrote is wrong. LOL - nice try, though :)


Quoting jobseeker:

So, where did you study biblical history?  You are way off on so many points, it gives me a headache.  There are too many points to refute.   Pick one and I'll be more inclined to have a discussion.




Anonymous
by Anonymous 11 on Nov. 21, 2013 at 7:22 PM

it's so stupid, i have no idea how anyone can believe that crap.

Anonymous
by Anonymous 12 on Nov. 21, 2013 at 7:23 PM


danie24
by Ruby Member on Nov. 21, 2013 at 7:25 PM

That sounds psychotic.


Quoting Anonymous:



almondpigeon
by Ruby Member on Nov. 21, 2013 at 7:25 PM
3 moms liked this
I agree to a point. Questioning Jesus's existence? Fine. Rudely questioning the intelligence of his followers? Not so fine. My personal relationship with my interpretation of god IS sacred. I will happily discuss it with someone all day long. I wouldn't, however, sit quietly and be called stupid because of the belief. No one says you have to respect, or concur,with my belief, but common courtesy should dictate that you be respectful the fact that it IS my belief. Does that make sense?


Quoting AnHpuresugar:

Nothing is too sacred to question. That is a made up rule by people that don't want to have to think or come up with answers. Questioning is healthy and valuable.




Quoting almondpigeon:

History is important.





But faith and belief systems are private and sacred.





Debating theology is one thing....discounting it condescendingly is something different. I'm fascinated by why people think like they do, but it's really rude to just flat out tell them they're wrong and then imply that they're stupid as well.





I'm curious...do you debunk all religions? Or just christianity?






Quoting danie24:

Because it's an interesting (and important) discussion.

Beliefs matter. Education matters.

I am not cramming anything down anyone's throat. History is history. I am simply starting a discussion. I don't have a gun to anyone's head :)







Quoting almondpigeon:

Why do you care? Not being snarky or bitchy...just honestly curious. If you don't believe, great. Why feel the need to cram "the truth" down people's throats?





Anonymous
by Anonymous 12 on Nov. 21, 2013 at 7:27 PM

I believe that ANYBODY who asks for the Lord's forgiveness can be forgiven. I don't care whether you've murdered, abused, cussed, or stolen. You can be COMPLETELY forgiven of your sins and made into a new person if you ask God for forgiveness and help. He will NOT turn anyone away.

Cymbeline
by Platinum Member on Nov. 21, 2013 at 7:29 PM
1 mom liked this

I should no longer be surprised by the responses to the idea of Atheists studying theology. It is an incredibly fascinating course of study, and is most certainly not only read and understood by Theists.

Perhaps their aversion to this reality stems from the fact that they come to realise that Atheists are more familiar with their religious texts than they are. ;)

Quoting danie24:

For the same reason I studied child psychology and child development when I wasn't a mother. Do you really only educate yourself to solidify your preconceived notions rather than broaden your education? That sounds rather sad. And quite boring. And I don't have to tell you where I went to school. Naming a school doesn't prove to you I attended or what I studied there. I could name any school. Try sticking at the topic at hand. Nothing I said was inaccurate. Instead of trying to find out where I live, why not explain away the ridiculousness of believing a man-god existed when the witness himself saw him in a vision rather than in real life.
Quoting jobseeker:


Why would you study religion if you are an athiest?  

If you truly studied biblical history you would know that the gospels were not written directly by Matthew Mark Luke and John, but by thier followers and yes, were compiled years after the deaths of the apostles they were attributed to.  They were written at  a time when oral tradition was practiced much more faithfully than it is in modern times, and that the cannon of the new testament was compiled at a certain counsel commonly referred to as the counsel of (______)  fil in the blank and I will know you studied what you say you studied.

by the the way, you still did not answer the question, where did you study biblical history?

"What is a man, if chief good, and market of his time be but to sleep and feed? A beast, no more."  Hamlet

Daisy79
by Member on Nov. 21, 2013 at 7:29 PM

Didn't Joseph Smith do this and create Mormons?  There's no accounting for sense in religion.


Quoting danie24:

Quoting Anonymous:

I am not religious at all in any way shape or form. I do believe Jesus existed..or rather someone named Jesus did...Did he speak to crowds...possibly, did he perform all these amazing acts...That I am not so sure of...Is he the son of some man (God) in the sky?? that i am even less sure of. However he IS mentioned in christianity, judaism (sp??) and islam...Most religious texts are so one sided, translated by people who didnt know what they were doing and not to mention whole books of the bible are "missing" i just cant take it seriously.
But, why believe it? If I wrote down a story about a man I saw in a vision, a man who supposedly existed 4 DECADES before my own existence... and then continued to write 80,000 words to tell everyone about my vision and what it all means... you would find that to be so compelling that you just believe it?



Mazi184
by Platinum Member on Nov. 21, 2013 at 7:29 PM
1 mom liked this
Very well said.

Quoting almondpigeon:

I agree to a point. Questioning Jesus's existence? Fine. Rudely questioning the intelligence of his followers? Not so fine. My personal relationship with my interpretation of god IS sacred. I will happily discuss it with someone all day long. I wouldn't, however, sit quietly and be called stupid because of the belief. No one says you have to respect, or concur,with my belief, but common courtesy should dictate that you be respectful the fact that it IS my belief. Does that make sense?




Quoting AnHpuresugar:

Nothing is too sacred to question. That is a made up rule by people that don't want to have to think or come up with answers. Questioning is healthy and valuable.






Quoting almondpigeon:

History is important.







But faith and belief systems are private and sacred.







Debating theology is one thing....discounting it condescendingly is something different. I'm fascinated by why people think like they do, but it's really rude to just flat out tell them they're wrong and then imply that they're stupid as well.







I'm curious...do you debunk all religions? Or just christianity?








Quoting danie24:

Because it's an interesting (and important) discussion.

Beliefs matter. Education matters.

I am not cramming anything down anyone's throat. History is history. I am simply starting a discussion. I don't have a gun to anyone's head :)









Quoting almondpigeon:

Why do you care? Not being snarky or bitchy...just honestly curious. If you don't believe, great. Why feel the need to cram "the truth" down people's throats?





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