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Mom Confessions Mom Confessions

My, slightly controversial, way of parenting *confession* *edit*

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I use the code of hammurabi to parent my kids.  For those of you that don't know what that is, its where "an eye for an eye" comes from. 

I don't go to the same extreme as Hammurabi though. I wouldn't go around cutting their hands off. 

Here are some examples of what I mean

If they steal something, they get something stolen from them. Meaning I will take something from them and NEVER give it back or buy them a replacement. Most likely I'll sell it, give it to the person they stole from or send it to the salvation army.

If they use bad language or talk back to an adult I have them hold their tounge until I tell them to stop.  It gets uncomfortable and they can't talk (also they look silly).  

If they neglect their responsibilities because they don't want to, I neglect my responsibilities. "Oops I didn't want to take you to dance practice" seems to get to my oldest and "I don't want to go to the pool" works for my youngest.  


Of course this goes both ways. If they do something good, good things are returned to them.


I think it teaches empathy for other people. They don't want things to happen to them, so they don't do bad things to others. They respect others because they want to be respected as well. They know that whatever they do, or don't do to/for someone elsec an be returned to them tenfold.  It also teaches them that if they good for other people, good things will happen to them. It works


Bash away. 


I am too lazy to read and reply to all the messages so I am just going to address the FAQs right here. 

1. What will happen when they try this on someone else? 

Answer: They won't. They know that I am the adult and they are the children. They know it is not their place to discipline anyone else, but it is my job to discipline/reward them as I see fit. We are not equals. Did you ever try to give your friends spankings as a kid just because your parents spanked you? No (at least if you are a normal person you didn't)

2. How long do they hold their tongue for?

Answer: It varies depending on exactly what was said. 10 minutes is long enough. And yes they can breathe and swallow. 

3. If it worked they wouldn't be doing those things?

Answer: It works, so they don't. When my kids came to me they were used to being on their own. So stealing, being disrespectful and shirking responsibilities were all they knew. Now, they have me, and I like order. So they respect that, and they respect others around them.

4. Does it really teach them anything but revenge?

Answer: Yes. My kids are egoists, they put themselves 1st (it comes from having to fend for themselves). By showing them how things they do feel to other people, in terms of themselves, they learn empathy. Before I started this they wouldn't care about how someone else felt when they stole something from them or called them a name. Now they know how it feels, so they don't inflict that pain to someone else. 

5. What do I do if they hit someone else?

Answer: We haven't crossed this bridge. But I am not opposed to spanking so that would probably be what happens (or something equally as emotionally painful for my youngest).  My kids don't hit each other, or other people. My youngest is terrified getting hit, so she doesn't hit others (because she has learned that everything that she does has an equal outcome) My oldest hasn't hit anyone. They aren't violent kids (also I think they are too old to be "hitting". That is something a 4 year old does when they don't get their way). 

And yes, I do let them defend themselves if a problem persists and all avenues have been explored before it. 

How old are they?

They are 8 and 10. Fully capable of understanding cause and effect. 


by on Dec. 10, 2013 at 4:36 PM
Replies (401-410):
Raven47
by on Dec. 11, 2013 at 3:20 PM
1 mom liked this

If I calmly have my child return an item that they stole to it's rightful owner -- and  I gently and patiently explain to my child  why it is wrong to steal -- please show me how you can "twist" that into me bullying my child?

AliKatAK47
by Meanie Pants on Dec. 11, 2013 at 3:22 PM

Please give me ONE example of discipline for children that is used in your adult life. Has an employer ever had you face the wall for one minute for each year you are old? Has a store clerk ever tried to lay you over their knee? Has a rival ever tried to take all of your things and send you into your room until they felt like letting you out?  I can go on and on, but I'm pretty sure the answer to every single one of those is NO (if not, you really need to reevaluate your life choices). Because we are adults, not children. When we do wrong, we go to jail, not to our rooms. 

Quoting Raven47:


Quoting Kitty_Myrick:

    With the examples you gave I see nothing wrong with your parenting.  It's just showing them that their actions have consequences.

reindeer 1reindeer 2reindeer 2reindeer 2sleigh

These are not real life consequences.

If I steal your purse you do not get to steal my purse in return.

If I neglect a responsibility at my job the boss doesn't say ... oops, you're not getting your paycheck.

If I curse, no normal person is going to attempt to force me to stick out my tongue until they say I can put my tongue back in my mouth.

These are examples of bullying ... spitefulness ... and control.  That is what it's "teaching" ... and it's going come out (sooner or later) in children who are being raised by the OP's methods. 







Raven47
by on Dec. 11, 2013 at 3:27 PM
Would you feel loved if your mother forced you to stand with holding your tongue out if your mouth for 10 minutes - or if she was taking your things and selling them or giving them away - or if she pretended that she "forgot" to do something for you out of spite, because you didn't do something for her?
Raven47
by on Dec. 11, 2013 at 3:36 PM
Quoting Skye24:

Sounds like a plan . No one is getting hurt . Every action has a reaction . You do something wrong and their is a consequence .  She isn't beating them .  Much better than useless time outs where they scream in the corner for an hour and parents make fools of themselves begging their children to act like they should .. Seriously ..They know their roles in this family and what is expected of them . Kudos to someone for being a responsible parent trying to raise responsible human beings ...

******************************* So, it wouldn't hurt you to be forced to stand with your tongue sticking out for ten minutes - or having your things taken away from you and given away or sold - or being lied to by your mother when she "pretends" that she forgot to do something for you,and is being just plain spiteful?
Raven47
by on Dec. 11, 2013 at 3:47 PM
1 mom liked this


Quoting AliKatAK47:

?????

Quoting Anonymous: I'm convinced this was a post made by admin to generate traffic. The site needs this traffic. This is the best way to do it. They are smart.


1. What will happen when they try this on someone else? 

Answer: They won't. They know that I am the adult and they are the children. They know it is not their place to discipline anyone else, but it is my job to discipline/reward them as I see fit. We are not equals. Did you ever try to give your friends spankings as a kid just because your parents spanked you? No (at least if you are a normal person you didn't)

Plenty of kids who are spanked DO hit other children. 

2. How long do they hold their tongue for?

Answer: It varies depending on exactly what was said. 10 minutes is long enough. And yes they can breathe and swallow. 

That's abusive/bullying.

3. If it worked they wouldn't be doing those things?

Answer: It works, so they don't. When my kids came to me they were used to being on their own. So stealing, being disrespectful and shirking responsibilities were all they knew. Now, they have me, and I like order. So they respect that, and they respect others around them.

Then why have you had to have your children hold-out their tongues more than ONCE?

4. Does it really teach them anything but revenge?

Answer: Yes. My kids are egoists, they put themselves 1st (it comes from having to fend for themselves). By showing them how things they do feel to other people, in terms of themselves, they learn empathy. Before I started this they wouldn't care about how someone else felt when they stole something from them or called them a name. Now they know how it feels, so they don't inflict that pain to someone else. 

As if these children had never once been called a name by someone or had never once had something taken from them to know how it feels - beforeyou started doing these nasty things to them. What names do you call them?

5. What do I do if they hit someone else?

Answer: We haven't crossed this bridge. But I am not opposed to spanking so that would probably be what happens (or something equally as emotionally painful for my youngest).  My kids don't hit each other, or other people. My youngest is terrified getting hit, so she doesn't hit others (because she has learned that everything that she does has an equal outcome) My oldest hasn't hit anyone. They aren't violent kids (also I think they are too old to be "hitting". That is something a 4 year old does when they don't get their way). And yes, I do let them defend themselves if a problem persists and all avenues have been explored before it. 

So, you would hit them and hurt them to teach them not to hit people and hurt them, because it's WRONG to hit people and hurt them. That makes no sense, whatsever. And by your standards ... by "your hitting" your children you are behaving like a 4 year-old who isn't getting her way. If your children do not "give you your way" by being little Stepford children - you'll just hit them. 

How old are they?

They are 8 and 10. Fully capable of understanding cause and effect.

And way too old to be spanked ... not that children of *any age should be hit by their parents.



jessifromdenver
by Bronze Member on Dec. 11, 2013 at 3:48 PM
Exactly. This does not teach empathy, it teaches vengeance.

Quoting AnHpuresugar: How faithfully do you follow it? If they yell, do you yell back? If they don't brush their teeth, you don't take them to the dentist? If they aren't listening, you purposely don't listen to them?



I don't parent this way. I am an adult and don't need to respond in kind to make my point. Children make mistakes because they are children without the ability to comprehend a situation in a mature manner. It does not excuse their actions but I don't do it back to them. Instead I parent with expectations and consequences, and most of all a sense of humor.



Besides, life is never fair or equal. There are many times that people who make bad choices do not receive bad consequences in our adult world. I think this code sets kids up for the problem of "it's not fair.". Of course it isn't. Life isn't fair. I would submit that your code does not teach empathy (how could it?) but fear and a respect of authoritarianism.



Children learn by soaking up the world around them. You need to model the behavior that you want to see. They need to be internally motivated to make the best choices that they are able. Internal motivation comes from success at tasks and expectations of behaving in a developmentally appropriate manner. Being afraid of the punishment does not foster internal motivation to do the right thing. It is punishment.
Anonymous
by Anonymous 65 on Dec. 11, 2013 at 3:54 PM

So many self-righteous parents in this thread who think their way is the best. Kids do need some form of discipline or they turn into little monsters who ultimately don't respect their parents or anyone else. Wake up, people. A child holding their own tongue is NOT abuse. I was an abused child, and I would have preferred this mother's method of punishment over the shit I had to endure. And even as an abused child, I only ever hit another child when they started a fight with me. 

Get over yourselves, ladies. 

jessifromdenver
by Bronze Member on Dec. 11, 2013 at 4:06 PM
1 mom liked this
Finland has a lot of things that make it's education system superior to ours. First, teachers are very highly paid, similar to doctors in the US, and teaching college is very competitive to get into, and their education is completely free because the country values good teachers so much, it's similar to how we pay for military member's college here. This insures that only Finland's best and brightest become teachers, and that the best and brightest have a lot of incentive to want to become teachers.
Second, Finland funds all of their schools equally, and funds all of their schools well, so even the schools that serve the poorest demographics are able to provide the same quality education as the schools that serve the richest. Unlike the US, where we make schools compete to see who will get the biggest share of a pitiful education fund, leaving some schools and their students screwed. Our methods also encourage teaching to the test, which narrows our children's education dramatically.
Which brings me to my third point, Finland doesn't do standardized tests. Finland provides it's students with a well rounded, holistic education and teachers evaluate their children themselves. They don't focus on only teaching the things that can be measured in multiple choice test format, they teach everything. Children take one standardized test in their senior year of high school, and it is used only to compare Finland's schools internationally. And guess what? They have the best schools in the world.
Finally, Finland's culture is more equitable than ours. There is less poverty and the wage gap is smaller. Poverty is a huge obstacle to education here in the States, it's hard to teach children who are hungry and sick. It's hard to inspire children to reach for a brighter future when the gap between the haves and the have-nots is so incredibly wide. It's hard to get children to want to invest time and effort into themselves when their society constantly tells them they are worthless, or parasites on the system. And really, even if you do get them to work hard, chances are it still won't make that big of a difference.
I'd sure like to see us emulate Finland more.

Quoting Anonymous: No wonder we have screwed up kids now more than ever before.



I am asking the poster a question: what is the research that proves your theory of discipline is effective?



Oh - there is none. That is correct.



Instead, take some time out of your life for some growth, personal reflection and educate yourself.



For starters, look up Gordon Neufeld - he has done some of the most up to date child development research IN THE WORLD. He would bash you to bits.



I have little empathy for parents who are stubborn, uneducated, and who CAN NOT BACK UP their views with research.



Update: Finland, Singapore, China - out score the USA in math and literacy by FAR!!! The problem is that teachers have to deal with screwed up kids in their classroom because of stupid parenting techniques like this.



I guess when someone hits your child at school and your child hits them back that is one HUGE bonus point for you. Your child will defend hitting, name calling, acting out - all because you modelled how to reciprocate it back.



Job well done!
jessifromdenver
by Bronze Member on Dec. 11, 2013 at 4:08 PM
This!!!

Quoting Raven47:


Quoting Kitty_Myrick:

    With the examples you gave I see nothing wrong with your parenting.  It's just showing them that their actions have consequences.

reindeer 1reindeer 2reindeer 2reindeer 2sleigh

These are not real life consequences.

If I steal your purse you do not get to steal my purse in return.

If I neglect a responsibility at my job the boss doesn't say ... oops, you're not getting your paycheck.

If I curse, no normal person is going to attempt to force me to stick out my tongue until they say I can put my tongue back in my mouth.

These are examples of bullying ... spitefulness ... and control.  That is what it's "teaching" ... and it's going come out (sooner or later) in children who are being raised by the OP's methods. 






jessifromdenver
by Bronze Member on Dec. 11, 2013 at 4:10 PM
1 mom liked this
Define "works".
If the OP's goal is to have her children be perfectly obedient to her, yeah, it probably works. If her goal is to raise children who have empathy and are familiar with real life consequences, I think her method may be a little flawed. Revenge is not a real life consequence, not is it empathetic.

Quoting Kitty_Myrick:

     I still don't see anything wrong here we all parent differently and what works for you won't work for everyone and one method might work now but not work latter as the child grows. And yes if you don't live up to your responsibilities at work you do "lose" your paycheck.  And any form of authority over another can be twisted to being call bulling.

gift

Quoting Raven47:


Quoting Kitty_Myrick:

    With the examples you gave I see nothing wrong with your parenting.  It's just showing them that their actions have consequences.

reindeer 1reindeer 2reindeer 2reindeer 2sleigh

These are not real life consequences.

If I steal your purse you do not get to steal my purse in return.

If I neglect a responsibility at my job the boss doesn't say ... oops, you're not getting your paycheck.

If I curse, no normal person is going to attempt to force me to stick out my tongue until they say I can put my tongue back in my mouth.

These are examples of bullying ... spitefulness ... and control.  That is what it's "teaching" ... and it's going come out (sooner or later) in children who are being raised by the OP's methods. 







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