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Mom Confessions Mom Confessions

My, slightly controversial, way of parenting *confession* *edit*

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I use the code of hammurabi to parent my kids.  For those of you that don't know what that is, its where "an eye for an eye" comes from. 

I don't go to the same extreme as Hammurabi though. I wouldn't go around cutting their hands off. 

Here are some examples of what I mean

If they steal something, they get something stolen from them. Meaning I will take something from them and NEVER give it back or buy them a replacement. Most likely I'll sell it, give it to the person they stole from or send it to the salvation army.

If they use bad language or talk back to an adult I have them hold their tounge until I tell them to stop.  It gets uncomfortable and they can't talk (also they look silly).  

If they neglect their responsibilities because they don't want to, I neglect my responsibilities. "Oops I didn't want to take you to dance practice" seems to get to my oldest and "I don't want to go to the pool" works for my youngest.  


Of course this goes both ways. If they do something good, good things are returned to them.


I think it teaches empathy for other people. They don't want things to happen to them, so they don't do bad things to others. They respect others because they want to be respected as well. They know that whatever they do, or don't do to/for someone elsec an be returned to them tenfold.  It also teaches them that if they good for other people, good things will happen to them. It works


Bash away. 


I am too lazy to read and reply to all the messages so I am just going to address the FAQs right here. 

1. What will happen when they try this on someone else? 

Answer: They won't. They know that I am the adult and they are the children. They know it is not their place to discipline anyone else, but it is my job to discipline/reward them as I see fit. We are not equals. Did you ever try to give your friends spankings as a kid just because your parents spanked you? No (at least if you are a normal person you didn't)

2. How long do they hold their tongue for?

Answer: It varies depending on exactly what was said. 10 minutes is long enough. And yes they can breathe and swallow. 

3. If it worked they wouldn't be doing those things?

Answer: It works, so they don't. When my kids came to me they were used to being on their own. So stealing, being disrespectful and shirking responsibilities were all they knew. Now, they have me, and I like order. So they respect that, and they respect others around them.

4. Does it really teach them anything but revenge?

Answer: Yes. My kids are egoists, they put themselves 1st (it comes from having to fend for themselves). By showing them how things they do feel to other people, in terms of themselves, they learn empathy. Before I started this they wouldn't care about how someone else felt when they stole something from them or called them a name. Now they know how it feels, so they don't inflict that pain to someone else. 

5. What do I do if they hit someone else?

Answer: We haven't crossed this bridge. But I am not opposed to spanking so that would probably be what happens (or something equally as emotionally painful for my youngest).  My kids don't hit each other, or other people. My youngest is terrified getting hit, so she doesn't hit others (because she has learned that everything that she does has an equal outcome) My oldest hasn't hit anyone. They aren't violent kids (also I think they are too old to be "hitting". That is something a 4 year old does when they don't get their way). 

And yes, I do let them defend themselves if a problem persists and all avenues have been explored before it. 

How old are they?

They are 8 and 10. Fully capable of understanding cause and effect. 


by on Dec. 10, 2013 at 4:36 PM
Replies (411-420):
jessifromdenver
by Bronze Member on Dec. 11, 2013 at 4:13 PM
Most people who support real life consequences for kids don't use any of those methods either. We use real life consequences.

Quoting AliKatAK47:

Please give me ONE example of discipline for children that is used in your adult life. Has an employer ever had you face the wall for one minute for each year you are old? Has a store clerk ever tried to lay you over their knee? Has a rival ever tried to take all of your things and send you into your room until they felt like letting you out?  I can go on and on, but I'm pretty sure the answer to every single one of those is NO (if not, you really need to reevaluate your life choices). Because we are adults, not children. When we do wrong, we go to jail, not to our rooms. 

Quoting Raven47:


Quoting Kitty_Myrick:

    With the examples you gave I see nothing wrong with your parenting.  It's just showing them that their actions have consequences.

reindeer 1reindeer 2reindeer 2reindeer 2sleigh

These are not real life consequences.

If I steal your purse you do not get to steal my purse in return.

If I neglect a responsibility at my job the boss doesn't say ... oops, you're not getting your paycheck.

If I curse, no normal person is going to attempt to force me to stick out my tongue until they say I can put my tongue back in my mouth.

These are examples of bullying ... spitefulness ... and control.  That is what it's "teaching" ... and it's going come out (sooner or later) in children who are being raised by the OP's methods. 







Raven47
by on Dec. 11, 2013 at 4:33 PM


 AliKat on Dec. 11, 2013 at 3:22 PM

Please give me ONE example of discipline for children that is used in your adult life.

If I commit a robbery and I am charged and found guilty I will go to jail for a "TIMEOUT"!

Has an employer ever had you face the wall for one minute for each year you are old?

The employer may fire me so that I "LOSE THE PRIVILEGE" of working for his company.

Has a store clerk ever tried to lay you over their knee?

No, because he/she would be charged with assault. However, the store clerk may ask that I  abide by the store rules and not smoke in the store or use vulgar language or I will "LOSE THE PRIVLEGE" of shopping in the store.

Has a rival ever tried to take all of your things and send you into your room until they felt like letting you out?

A judge can put me on "HOUSE ARREST" until the judge feels like letting me out of the house, and because I used my gun in an illegal manner oh, hell, yeah the judge will take my gun away from me until the judge believes I can be a responsible gun owner.

 I can go on and on, but I'm pretty sure the answer to every single one of those is NO (if not, you really need to reevaluate your life choices). Because we are adults, not children. When we do wrong, we go to jail, not to our rooms. 

Actually, the answer to every single one is YES - in that adults ARE disciplined in much the same ways that children are disciplined. 






GMom2011
by on Dec. 11, 2013 at 6:32 PM
You obviously know shit about the mafia. She isn't breaking her kids knee caps or whacking them because they stole. You are taking it to the extreme and being overly dramatic.

Quoting KreatingMe:  lol. Not too much. That is how the mafia works. Honestly how can anyone think that stealing from your child teaches a better lesson than having them work to pay back what they stole, explaining to them they have damaged your trust and things that were once available will now be monitored, etc. It sounds a lot like mafia values or rather lack thereof.
It was from a sociology professor that I first heard the comparison of mafia values to certain lifestyles, particularly strict this for that, ones, that lack deeper values.
Quoting Anonymous:
Quoting KreatingMe:
 
Quoting mehamil1:
You're teaching them to be passive aggressive. Doing shit back solves absolutely nothing. 
 Bingo. Not to mention the values she is teaching them. Is he op raising children or a mafia?
the OP's parenting style isn't my style.. but mafia? lol.. really? that's a bit over board.
 
jessifromdenver
by Bronze Member on Dec. 11, 2013 at 6:40 PM
I don't know if these are the best examples.

If my son is behaving unpleasantly, I do leave him alone. This is a real life consequence. In real life, if you act like a jerk no one is going to be around you. We don't do time out, but we will walk away from our kids when it's safe to do so, or tell them to leave the room until they can be nice.

However, because I also want to teach my kids the values of love, forgiveness, and empathy, I always make sure there is a loving reconciliation afterwards. That might not always be a real life consequence, in real life other people might not always forgive, but because I want my kids to be the type who do, I model forgiveness for them.

No one assaults anyone in our home, ever. Certainly the adults do not assault children. We don't do it because it goes against our values, research shows it is terrible for children's physical and mental development, research shows it's not effective in any way that our family thinks is valuable, and finally, because it's not a real life consequence and my goal is to teach my children real life consequences. We use other methods of discipline.

Actually, there are lots of instances where someone will take all your things if you do not live up to responsibilities with them. Repossession, foreclosure, and loss of custody all come to mind. I do repossess my sons toys if he's not living up to his responsibilities with them. Most things I give him an opportunity to earn back though. Because in real life, if you have a car repo'd, you can work to improve your credit and get a new one. It also gets him to do more chores around the house. :-)

There are lots of discipline methods commonly imposed upon children that are not real life consequences, it's true. But those of us who use real life consequences try not to use those methods. Now, there may be some exceptions in certain situations, where safety dictates. But as much as possible we try to instill a real life consequence. Actually, most of the time we don't have to do anything, the consequence is imposed by life itself. I don't have to tell my son not to hit his friends, for example, and I don't have to punish him if he does. If he tries it, he will soon see he has no friends. Punishment presents itself.

I don't think the OP's methods are terrible. If they are accompanied by a respectful discussion about why the consequence is being imposed, the kids are probably getting something valuable out of it. But it's not a method I would ever use because it does not teach any values that are important to us as a family, and it does teach some values that we straight up oppose (mainly vengeance).

While some aspects of it are similar to Love and Logic (which I like) L&L is much more loving, empathetic, positive, proactive, and constructive. Instead of saying "I don't feel like taking you to dance because you didn't clean your room, L&L parents would say "I'd be happy to take you to dance when your room is clean." for example.

Quoting Raven47:


 AliKat on Dec. 11, 2013 at 3:22 PM

Please give me ONE example of discipline for children that is used in your adult life.

If I commit a robbery and I am charged and found guilty I will go to jail for a "TIMEOUT"!

Has an employer ever had you face the wall for one minute for each year you are old?

The employer may fire me so that I "LOSE THE PRIVILEGE" of working for his company.

Has a store clerk ever tried to lay you over their knee?

No, because he/she would be charged with assault. However, the store clerk may ask that I  abide by the store rules and not smoke in the store or use vulgar language or I will "LOSE THE PRIVLEGE" of shopping in the store.

Has a rival ever tried to take all of your things and send you into your room until they felt like letting you out?

A judge can put me on "HOUSE ARREST" until the judge feels like letting me out of the house, and because I used my gun in an illegal manner oh, hell, yeah the judge will take my gun away from me until the judge believes I can be a responsible gun owner.

 I can go on and on, but I'm pretty sure the answer to every single one of those is NO (if not, you really need to reevaluate your life choices). Because we are adults, not children. When we do wrong, we go to jail, not to our rooms. 

Actually, the answer to every single one is YES - in that adults ARE disciplined in much the same ways that children are disciplined. 






Raven47
by on Dec. 11, 2013 at 7:32 PM
1 mom liked this



Quoting Anonymous:

So many self-righteous parents in this thread who think their way is the best. Kids do need some form of discipline or they turn into little monsters who ultimately don't respect their parents or anyone else. Wake up, people. A child holding their own tongue is NOT abuse. I was an abused child, and I would have preferred this mother's method of punishment over the shit I had to endure. And even as an abused child, I only ever hit another child when they started a fight with me. 

Get over yourselves, ladies. 

No one said that children should not be disciplined.

If someone forced you to hold out your tongue for ten minutes while your family (and possibly a friend or two) sat there watching you -- then you might feel differently about this punishment. 

If you had a friend whose husband beat the hell out of her, daily, would you be OK with your husband pushing you around every once in a while, because it's not nearly as bad as what your friend was suffering? 

Now, how about holding out your tongue for 10 minutes (and see how it feels to try to breath and swallow) since you don't think it's abusive. 







Raven47
by on Dec. 11, 2013 at 8:37 PM
1 mom liked this


Quoting jessifromdenver: I don't know if these are the best examples.

If my son is behaving unpleasantly, I do leave him alone. This is a real life consequence. In real life, if you act like a jerk no one is going to be around you. We don't do time out, but we will walk away from our kids when it's safe to do so, or tell them to leave the room until they can be nice.
Time-out (to me) is to allow a child time to calm down and regroup. It's not done to punish the child. I would, also, remove myself from a situation where a child (moreso a preteen/teenager) was being disrespectful


However, because I also want to teach my kids the values of love, forgiveness, and empathy, I always make sure there is a loving reconciliation afterwards. That might not always be a real life consequence, in real life other people might not always forgive, but because I want my kids to be the type who do, I model forgiveness for them.
I would handle the situation the same way.


No one assaults anyone in our home, ever. Certainly the adults do not assault children. We don't do it because it goes against our values, research shows it is terrible for children's physical and mental development, research shows it's not effective in any way that our family thinks is valuable, and finally, because it's not a real life consequence and my goal is to teach my children real life consequences. We use other methods of discipline.
100% agree.


Actually, there are lots of instances where someone will take all your things if you do not live up to responsibilities with them. Repossession, foreclosure, and loss of custody all come to mind. I do repossess my sons toys if he's not living up to his responsibilities with them. Most things I give him an opportunity to earn back though. Because in real life, if you have a car repo'd, you can work to improve your credit and get a new one. It also gets him to do more chores around the house. :-)
Gifts, and things that the children bought with their own money are a different story. If I paid $300.00 for a game system for my grandchild I expect that it will not be taken away from them by their parents, and sold or given away. If a child works and earns the money to buy himself a bike then it belongs to the child, and should not be given away or sold as a form of discipline. If the child irresponsibly leaves his bike laying in the driveway (and it gets run over by a car) then the child will have to fix the bike (himself) or earn the money to pay to have it repaired ... and he'll have to do without the bike meanwhile. To be clear, if the game system is intefering with homework then I don't have a problem with it being removed from the child temporarily, and given back when school work improves.


There are lots of discipline methods commonly imposed upon children that are not real life consequences, it's true. But those of us who use real life consequences try not to use those methods. Now, there may be some exceptions in certain situations, where safety dictates. But as much as possible we try to instill a real life consequence. Actually, most of the time we don't have to do anything, the consequence is imposed by life itself. I don't have to tell my son not to hit his friends, for example, and I don't have to punish him if he does. If he tries it, he will soon see he has no friends. Punishment presents itself.
Exactly.


I don't think the OP's methods are terrible. If they are accompanied by a respectful discussion about why the consequence is being imposed, the kids are probably getting something valuable out of it. But it's not a method I would ever use because it does not teach any values that are important to us as a family, and it does teach some values that we straight up oppose (mainly vengeance).
I do think that making your child hold out his tongue for 10 minutes is terrible, and so is giving away or selling toys that were gifts or that the child worked to earn. 


While some aspects of it are similar to Love and Logic (which I like) L&L is much more loving, empathetic, positive, proactive, and constructive. Instead of saying "I don't feel like taking you to dance because you didn't clean your room, L&L parents would say "I'd be happy to take you to dance when your room is clean." for example.
The example that you gave makes all the difference in the world. One (example) is spiteful and punishing, and the other (example) is encouraging and rewarding. The OPs point seemed to be that adults are SUPERIOR to children and consequently never suffer "LIKE" consequence, simply, because  they are ADULTS. My point is - that's simply not true. And adults are not superior to children, and children should be given the same respect as adults. 
Quoting Raven47:



 AliKat on Dec. 11, 2013 at 3:22 PM

Please give me ONE example of discipline for children that is used in your adult life.

If I commit a robbery and I am charged and found guilty I will go to jail for a "TIMEOUT"!

Has an employer ever had you face the wall for one minute for each year you are old?

The employer may fire me so that I "LOSE THE PRIVILEGE" of working for his company.

Has a store clerk ever tried to lay you over their knee?

No, because he/she would be charged with assault. However, the store clerk may ask that I  abide by the store rules and not smoke in the store or use vulgar language or I will "LOSE THE PRIVLEGE" of shopping in the store.

Has a rival ever tried to take all of your things and send you into your room until they felt like letting you out?

A judge can put me on "HOUSE ARREST" until the judge feels like letting me out of the house, and because I used my gun in an illegal manner oh, hell, yeah the judge will take my gun away from me until the judge believes I can be a responsible gun owner.

 I can go on and on, but I'm pretty sure the answer to every single one of those is NO (if not, you really need to reevaluate your life choices). Because we are adults, not children. When we do wrong, we go to jail, not to our rooms. 

Actually, the answer to every single one is YES - in that adults ARE disciplined in much the same ways that children are disciplined. 







AliKatAK47
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by Meanie Pants on Dec. 11, 2013 at 9:15 PM

And that's different from how I parent my kids, how? You do wrong, bad things happen to you. Simple cause and effect. 

Quoting Raven47:



 AliKat on Dec. 11, 2013 at 3:22 PM

Please give me ONE example of discipline for children that is used in your adult life.

If I commit a robbery and I am charged and found guilty I will go to jail for a "TIMEOUT"!

Has an employer ever had you face the wall for one minute for each year you are old?

The employer may fire me so that I "LOSE THE PRIVILEGE" of working for his company.

Has a store clerk ever tried to lay you over their knee?

No, because he/she would be charged with assault. However, the store clerk may ask that I  abide by the store rules and not smoke in the store or use vulgar language or I will "LOSE THE PRIVLEGE" of shopping in the store.

Has a rival ever tried to take all of your things and send you into your room until they felt like letting you out?

A judge can put me on "HOUSE ARREST" until the judge feels like letting me out of the house, and because I used my gun in an illegal manner oh, hell, yeah the judge will take my gun away from me until the judge believes I can be a responsible gun owner.

 I can go on and on, but I'm pretty sure the answer to every single one of those is NO (if not, you really need to reevaluate your life choices). Because we are adults, not children. When we do wrong, we go to jail, not to our rooms. 

Actually, the answer to every single one is YES - in that adults ARE disciplined in much the same ways that children are disciplined. 







jessifromdenver
by Bronze Member on Dec. 11, 2013 at 10:54 PM
1 mom liked this
That's the other thing that bothers me about this. It's a lie. In the real world, bad things do not always happen to you when you do bad things. People do terrible things with little to no consequences ALL THE TIME. Rape is a perfect example. Most rapists will never see any kind of consequence for their actions. Most of their crimes will go unreported. Of those that are reported, most will never be prosecuted or the charges will be dropped before it ever goes to court. Other examples include credit card theft, slashing tires, breaking into cars, bike theft. All of these things are things that have happened to me or a close family member, and the people who did these things to us were never caught or prosecuted. Most of them have likely never had any kind of karmic retribution for those actions either.

I'm not making my kids the promise that if someone hurts them, that person will get hurt back. It's a lie. When your kids are adults (actually, probably sooner) they are going to learn that. I wouldn't be surprised if they feel bitter about it. Like there's no justice. But then again, you are teaching them that justice means revenge. It's a hard lesson to learn that that's not the case when you have been brought up your whole life not to know the difference.

Furthermore, if the only reason your kids are refraining from doing bad things is because they fear retribution, what's going to stop them from doing bad things when they learn that retribution isn't a sure thing? In fact, depending on their level of privilege, retribution might be very unlikely. You have to give them some other reason to be good. You talk about empathy, but there's a difference between "I'm not going to do this to someone because I don't want them to feel pain" and "I'm not going to do this because if I do my mom is going to cause me pain." The first is empathy, the second is fear of punishment. What happens when the fear of punishment is removed?

You're not going to be there to take their stuff and make them hold their tongues forever. Eventually, your kids will be old and big enough to fight you back if you hit them. How long term is this method, really? I'm sure it produces very obedient kids in the here and now, but long term I'm a little more skeptical.

And, call me crazy, but I don't think obedient is the best thing a kid can be. When you aren't around, who are they obedient to then? Are you sure it's someone you would like? Will it be the closet pedophile down the street? Or perhaps the group of kids ditching class to smoke meth? I want my kids to grow up to stand up for what's right, and stand against injustice, and that often takes some defiance, a skill my kids are allowed to cultivate (I try to help them develop it in positive, respectful, and peaceful ways). Blind obedience is what made the Holocaust possible, what keeps people in abusive relationships, what gives power to cult leaders. Obedient people are gullible, weak, cowardly, and make all their decisions based on fear of punishment from an authority figure. I'd just as soon skip that fate for my kids, thank you very much.

All of this being said, I don't think your method is the worst out there. It's no "To Raise Up A Child". I just think the long term results certainly wouldn't be what I want for my kids. But, hey, if all you want is obedient kids, then I'd say your method deserves a gold star.

Quoting AliKatAK47:

And that's different from how I parent my kids, how? You do wrong, bad things happen to you. Simple cause and effect. 

Quoting Raven47:



 AliKat on Dec. 11, 2013 at 3:22 PM

Please give me ONE example of discipline for children that is used in your adult life.

If I commit a robbery and I am charged and found guilty I will go to jail for a "TIMEOUT"!

Has an employer ever had you face the wall for one minute for each year you are old?

The employer may fire me so that I "LOSE THE PRIVILEGE" of working for his company.

Has a store clerk ever tried to lay you over their knee?

No, because he/she would be charged with assault. However, the store clerk may ask that I  abide by the store rules and not smoke in the store or use vulgar language or I will "LOSE THE PRIVLEGE" of shopping in the store.

Has a rival ever tried to take all of your things and send you into your room until they felt like letting you out?

A judge can put me on "HOUSE ARREST" until the judge feels like letting me out of the house, and because I used my gun in an illegal manner oh, hell, yeah the judge will take my gun away from me until the judge believes I can be a responsible gun owner.

 I can go on and on, but I'm pretty sure the answer to every single one of those is NO (if not, you really need to reevaluate your life choices). Because we are adults, not children. When we do wrong, we go to jail, not to our rooms. 

Actually, the answer to every single one is YES - in that adults ARE disciplined in much the same ways that children are disciplined. 







jessifromdenver
by Bronze Member on Dec. 11, 2013 at 11:05 PM
I would never throw out or give away an expensive toy. Here's how it works when I repossess something.

First, the item gets put in a box. My son (my daughter is not old enough yet, she is only 15 months) has the opportunity to do some extra chores to earn the item back. After a month or so, my husband and I go through the box. Anything left in there clearly are not things he cares deeply for, or he would have earned it back at that point. So we separate what's in the box into 3 piles, trash, donate, store. Broken toys and things that are in really bad shape get trashed. Things that are still in good shape but that we know our son really never plays with and that he won't miss get donated. Expensive things, or things with great sentimental value, get boxed up and put in our crawl space. Often these are toys that he simply isn't mature enough to use responsibly, or maybe he has out grown. A few things we may leave in the box to give him more chances to earn it back.

The tongue holding thing, I don't know. It does sound miserable, but it also seems kind of silly and ridiculous. I don't think it would be very effective for my son, he'd probably think it was a riot and swear on purpose just to do it. I wouldn't want to give him the idea. Lol. But then, I don't get bent out of shape about swearing in the first place. I swear like nobody's business, thanks to my seven years in the Army. It is hypocritical of me to insist my kids not swear.

I'll be honest though, I toss around the idea of smoking my kids sometimes. "Smoking" is how drill sergeants punish Soldiers in Basic Training. Push-ups, overhead arm claps, running laps around the barracks/house. It serves two purposes, it punishes in a painful manner and causes fear, but it also builds up physical strength and confidence. I haven't imposed it yet, mainly because I would have to yell like a drill sergeant to do it, and who has the energy for that? I'm way to mellow to ever act like a drill sergeant. But I do think about it.

Quoting Raven47: Quoting jessifromdenver: I don't know if these are the best examples.

If my son is behaving unpleasantly, I do leave him alone. This is a real life consequence. In real life, if you act like a jerk no one is going to be around you. We don't do time out, but we will walk away from our kids when it's safe to do so, or tell them to leave the room until they can be nice.Time-out (to me) is to allow a child time to calm down and regroup. It's not done to punish the child. I would, also, remove myself from a situation where a child (moreso a preteen/teenager) was being disrespectful

However, because I also want to teach my kids the values of love, forgiveness, and empathy, I always make sure there is a loving reconciliation afterwards. That might not always be a real life consequence, in real life other people might not always forgive, but because I want my kids to be the type who do, I model forgiveness for them.I would handle the situation the same way.

No one assaults anyone in our home, ever. Certainly the adults do not assault children. We don't do it because it goes against our values, research shows it is terrible for children's physical and mental development, research shows it's not effective in any way that our family thinks is valuable, and finally, because it's not a real life consequence and my goal is to teach my children real life consequences. We use other methods of discipline.100% agree.

Actually, there are lots of instances where someone will take all your things if you do not live up to responsibilities with them. Repossession, foreclosure, and loss of custody all come to mind. I do repossess my sons toys if he's not living up to his responsibilities with them. Most things I give him an opportunity to earn back though. Because in real life, if you have a car repo'd, you can work to improve your credit and get a new one. It also gets him to do more chores around the house. :-)Gifts, and things that the children bought with their own money are a different story. If I paid $300.00 for a game system for my grandchild I expect that it will not be taken away from them by their parents, and sold or given away. If a child works and earns the money to buy himself a bike then it belongs to the child, and should not be given away or sold as a form of discipline. If the child irresponsibly leaves his bike laying in the driveway (and it gets run over by a car) then the child will have to fix the bike (himself) or earn the money to pay to have it repaired ... and he'll have to do without the bike meanwhile. To be clear, if the game system is intefering with homework then I don't have a problem with it being removed from the child temporarily, and given back when school work improves.

There are lots of discipline methods commonly imposed upon children that are not real life consequences, it's true. But those of us who use real life consequences try not to use those methods. Now, there may be some exceptions in certain situations, where safety dictates. But as much as possible we try to instill a real life consequence. Actually, most of the time we don't have to do anything, the consequence is imposed by life itself. I don't have to tell my son not to hit his friends, for example, and I don't have to punish him if he does. If he tries it, he will soon see he has no friends. Punishment presents itself.Exactly.

I don't think the OP's methods are terrible. If they are accompanied by a respectful discussion about why the consequence is being imposed, the kids are probably getting something valuable out of it. But it's not a method I would ever use because it does not teach any values that are important to us as a family, and it does teach some values that we straight up oppose (mainly vengeance). I do think that making your child hold out his tongue for 10 minutes is terrible, and so is giving away or selling toys that were gifts or that the child worked to earn. 

While some aspects of it are similar to Love and Logic (which I like) L&L is much more loving, empathetic, positive, proactive, and constructive. Instead of saying "I don't feel like taking you to dance because you didn't clean your room, L&L parents would say "I'd be happy to take you to dance when your room is clean." for example. The example that you gave makes all the difference in the world. One (example) is spiteful and punishing, and the other (example) is encouraging and rewarding. The OPs point seemed to be that adults are SUPERIOR to children and consequently never suffer "LIKE" consequence, simply, because  they are ADULTS. My point is - that's simply not true. And adults are not superior to children, and children should be given the same respect as adults. 

Quoting Raven47:



 AliKat on Dec. 11, 2013 at 3:22 PM

Please give me ONE example of discipline for children that is used in your adult life.

If I commit a robbery and I am charged and found guilty I will go to jail for a "TIMEOUT"!

Has an employer ever had you face the wall for one minute for each year you are old?

The employer may fire me so that I "LOSE THE PRIVILEGE" of working for his company.

Has a store clerk ever tried to lay you over their knee?

No, because he/she would be charged with assault. However, the store clerk may ask that I  abide by the store rules and not smoke in the store or use vulgar language or I will "LOSE THE PRIVLEGE" of shopping in the store.

Has a rival ever tried to take all of your things and send you into your room until they felt like letting you out?

A judge can put me on "HOUSE ARREST" until the judge feels like letting me out of the house, and because I used my gun in an illegal manner oh, hell, yeah the judge will take my gun away from me until the judge believes I can be a responsible gun owner.

 I can go on and on, but I'm pretty sure the answer to every single one of those is NO (if not, you really need to reevaluate your life choices). Because we are adults, not children. When we do wrong, we go to jail, not to our rooms. 

Actually, the answer to every single one is YES - in that adults ARE disciplined in much the same ways that children are disciplined. 







Raven47
by on Dec. 12, 2013 at 4:11 AM


Quoting AliKatAK47:

And that's different from how I parent my kids, how? You do wrong, bad things happen to you. Simple cause and effect. 

Quoting Raven47:



 AliKat on Dec. 11, 2013 at 3:22 PM

Please give me ONE example of discipline for children that is used in your adult life.

If I commit a robbery and I am charged and found guilty I will go to jail for a "TIMEOUT"!

Has an employer ever had you face the wall for one minute for each year you are old?

The employer may fire me so that I "LOSE THE PRIVILEGE" of working for his company.

Has a store clerk ever tried to lay you over their knee?

No, because he/she would be charged with assault. However, the store clerk may ask that I  abide by the store rules and not smoke in the store or use vulgar language or I will "LOSE THE PRIVLEGE" of shopping in the store.

Has a rival ever tried to take all of your things and send you into your room until they felt like letting you out?

A judge can put me on "HOUSE ARREST" until the judge feels like letting me out of the house, and because I used my gun in an illegal manner oh, hell, yeah the judge will take my gun away from me until the judge believes I can be a responsible gun owner.

 I can go on and on, but I'm pretty sure the answer to every single one of those is NO (if not, you really need to reevaluate your life choices). Because we are adults, not children. When we do wrong, we go to jail, not to our rooms. 

Actually, the answer to every single one is YES - in that adults ARE disciplined in much the same ways that children are disciplined. 






If you lose your temper and say a bad word no one is going to force you to stick your tongue out for 10 minutes.

If you run through a red light no one is going to take your car away from you and sell it or give it away.

If you hit someone the police may become involved, but the police will not hit you for hitting.

If you put-off doing the laundry you may hear some grumbling from a teen (that their favorite outfit isn't clean so they can wear it today), but no one is going to spite you for it.

Yes, there should be consequences for bad  behavior but it ought to be sane and sensible.

Time-out (in your room) to calm down and think about  how to handle your anger better the next time.

Paying a fine.

Losing a privilege, temporarily.

Have something taken away, temporarily.

Suffering a *natural consequence (if you irresponsibly leave certain toys out in the rain they will get ruined and you will have to earn the money to replace the toy, yourself, or do without it).

This is exactly how your discipline is different from the discipline that I support.





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