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Social worker approval required to homeschool???

I stumbled upon this article this morning and found it quite interesting. An Ohio senator has proposed a bill that will require homeschooling parents to undergo a social services investigation to determine if they are fit to homeschool. It will include interviewing parents and children seperately, and criminal background checks. If they're not approved they will be subjected to an "intervention" before they can be considered for approval. Here's the full article:

http://www.hslda.org/hs/state/oh/201312170.asp

What are your thoughts? If you're a homeschooling parent, would you be ok with this?

by on Dec. 18, 2013 at 11:47 AM
Replies (161-167):
sha_lyn68
by Platinum Member on Dec. 19, 2013 at 10:31 PM

No it isn't "pretty logical" at all. What is logical is that if a parent has doubts about whether their child is performing at grade level. they will elect to test even if not required.

Also, HSLDA map is known for being very highly inaccurate. They rate states that allow religious cover schools as having no notification even if the law requires them to be tested. Even at that, going by that map 1/2 the states require testing or other forms of evaluation. How does1/2=  "very few"

Quoting maxswolfsuit:

Even in states where testing is mandatory the enforcement is inconsistent. And very few states require testing. 

I live in a state with "moderate" regulations and very few homeschoolers participate in testing. I teach in a district with hundreds of thousands and students and less than 100 homeschool students took standardized  tests in grades 3-12 last year. That's a tiny fraction of the students in the district who are registered as being home schooled. But the ones that did test perform very well. It's pretty logical to conclude that the only parents who want their children tested are the ones making sure the students will test well. So that tiny fraction represents the entire homeschool population for my district. I assume the rest of the state is represented in the same way. 

http://www.hslda.org/laws/default.asp

Quoting sha_lyn68:

How exactly do you think that the "worst perform homeschoolers" opt out of testing? Homeschoolers that are tested are typically tested because it is required by law where they live. Those that are not require to by law wouldn't be reporting their test results to anyone. Your opinion might hold water if the only/main source of scores was from independent testing agencies or from the parents themselves. However many of the scores come directly from the state departments of education that require testing of homeschoolers.

Quoting maxswolfsuit:

That's not necessarily true since all homeschool students don't participate in standardized testing. 

Yes, the ones tested perform better. But all students who attend public schools are tested. The worst performing homeschoolers like the ones I'm refering to aren't included in all those statics because they seldom, if ever, test. 

As far as I know (and I have looked) there has never been a double blind study to compare the effectivness of public school to homeschool. There are many factors that impact student achievement such as socioeconomic status, primary language spoken, learning and other disabilities, IQ and even parental support. The population of homeschoolers taking standardized tests isn't equivalent to the general population of public school students in any of those areas. So homeschooling in and of itself hasn't ever been proven to be the sole reason for that increase in achievement. 

A study of similar populations of homeschool and public school students would be interesting. But no one has the motivation to do such a study so I doubt we will ever have data that reflects the true impact of homeschooling. 




Anonymous
by Anonymous 27 on Dec. 19, 2013 at 10:35 PM

I think it is a great idea, too many people who are not qualified are attempting to home school because they are too lazy to crawl their asses out of bed or the kids hate school and the parents don't want to fight with them to go.  Not all parents that home school do it for this reason but I personally know a few that do.

maxswolfsuit
by Platinum Member on Dec. 19, 2013 at 10:38 PM

If you have another source I'd be curious to see it. 

What states require testing?

Quoting sha_lyn68:

No it isn't "pretty logical" at all. What is logical is that if a parent has doubts about whether their child is performing at grade level. they will elect to test even if not required.

Also, HSLDA map is known for being very highly inaccurate. They rate states that allow religious cover schools as having no notification even if the law requires them to be tested. Even at that, going by that map 1/2 the states require testing or other forms of evaluation. How does1/2=  "very few"

Quoting maxswolfsuit:

Even in states where testing is mandatory the enforcement is inconsistent. And very few states require testing. 

I live in a state with "moderate" regulations and very few homeschoolers participate in testing. I teach in a district with hundreds of thousands and students and less than 100 homeschool students took standardized  tests in grades 3-12 last year. That's a tiny fraction of the students in the district who are registered as being home schooled. But the ones that did test perform very well. It's pretty logical to conclude that the only parents who want their children tested are the ones making sure the students will test well. So that tiny fraction represents the entire homeschool population for my district. I assume the rest of the state is represented in the same way. 

http://www.hslda.org/laws/default.asp

Quoting sha_lyn68:

How exactly do you think that the "worst perform homeschoolers" opt out of testing? Homeschoolers that are tested are typically tested because it is required by law where they live. Those that are not require to by law wouldn't be reporting their test results to anyone. Your opinion might hold water if the only/main source of scores was from independent testing agencies or from the parents themselves. However many of the scores come directly from the state departments of education that require testing of homeschoolers.

Quoting maxswolfsuit:

That's not necessarily true since all homeschool students don't participate in standardized testing. 

Yes, the ones tested perform better. But all students who attend public schools are tested. The worst performing homeschoolers like the ones I'm refering to aren't included in all those statics because they seldom, if ever, test. 

As far as I know (and I have looked) there has never been a double blind study to compare the effectivness of public school to homeschool. There are many factors that impact student achievement such as socioeconomic status, primary language spoken, learning and other disabilities, IQ and even parental support. The population of homeschoolers taking standardized tests isn't equivalent to the general population of public school students in any of those areas. So homeschooling in and of itself hasn't ever been proven to be the sole reason for that increase in achievement. 

A study of similar populations of homeschool and public school students would be interesting. But no one has the motivation to do such a study so I doubt we will ever have data that reflects the true impact of homeschooling. 





sha_lyn68
by Platinum Member on Dec. 19, 2013 at 10:42 PM

My source is the individual laws of each state. Reseach them. 

Quoting maxswolfsuit:

If you have another source I'd be curious to see it. 

What states require testing?

Quoting sha_lyn68:

No it isn't "pretty logical" at all. What is logical is that if a parent has doubts about whether their child is performing at grade level. they will elect to test even if not required.

Also, HSLDA map is known for being very highly inaccurate. They rate states that allow religious cover schools as having no notification even if the law requires them to be tested. Even at that, going by that map 1/2 the states require testing or other forms of evaluation. How does1/2=  "very few"

Quoting maxswolfsuit:

Even in states where testing is mandatory the enforcement is inconsistent. And very few states require testing. 

I live in a state with "moderate" regulations and very few homeschoolers participate in testing. I teach in a district with hundreds of thousands and students and less than 100 homeschool students took standardized  tests in grades 3-12 last year. That's a tiny fraction of the students in the district who are registered as being home schooled. But the ones that did test perform very well. It's pretty logical to conclude that the only parents who want their children tested are the ones making sure the students will test well. So that tiny fraction represents the entire homeschool population for my district. I assume the rest of the state is represented in the same way. 

http://www.hslda.org/laws/default.asp

Quoting sha_lyn68:

How exactly do you think that the "worst perform homeschoolers" opt out of testing? Homeschoolers that are tested are typically tested because it is required by law where they live. Those that are not require to by law wouldn't be reporting their test results to anyone. Your opinion might hold water if the only/main source of scores was from independent testing agencies or from the parents themselves. However many of the scores come directly from the state departments of education that require testing of homeschoolers.

Quoting maxswolfsuit:

That's not necessarily true since all homeschool students don't participate in standardized testing. 

Yes, the ones tested perform better. But all students who attend public schools are tested. The worst performing homeschoolers like the ones I'm refering to aren't included in all those statics because they seldom, if ever, test. 

As far as I know (and I have looked) there has never been a double blind study to compare the effectivness of public school to homeschool. There are many factors that impact student achievement such as socioeconomic status, primary language spoken, learning and other disabilities, IQ and even parental support. The population of homeschoolers taking standardized tests isn't equivalent to the general population of public school students in any of those areas. So homeschooling in and of itself hasn't ever been proven to be the sole reason for that increase in achievement. 

A study of similar populations of homeschool and public school students would be interesting. But no one has the motivation to do such a study so I doubt we will ever have data that reflects the true impact of homeschooling. 






Neko_Nightstar
by Silver Member on Dec. 19, 2013 at 10:52 PM

I didn't say that everyone was like that. Statistics don't change my opinion or my expeirence. I know that many home schooling parents are diligent. So, what is the problem with them taking tests and learning how to use the materials?

Quoting ceckyl: Well thankfully, The statistics are pretty strongly against you.

Quoting Neko_Nightstar:

Well, I have never met a home schooled child that didn't suffer either educationally, socially, or both. Just because my expeirence is different from yours doesn't make mine invalid.

Quoting ceckyl: Honestly, I have met many homeschoolers, and we are homeschoolers ourselves, and never met one like that. Not saying they don't exist, but they certainly are not even a little common.



Quoting Neko_Nightstar:

I do understand home schooling. I was home schooled, remember? I also understand that home schooling is not the only way that a child should be educated. You would be surprised. Have you ever met a plain lazy parent? It is just easier to keep the child home and claim they are home schooling than to have to get up early, get their kids ready, send them to school, help them with their homework and class projects, ect. Some parents think they are the only ones that know anything and that their kids will learn more at home with them while watching TV. Some parents really want to home school but they just don't do what they are supposed to do. They think "I know math. I know how to read. I can teach." but they don't know how to teach. It isn't as easy as telling the kids what you know. Some parents do not understand that.

Quoting ceckyl: Honestly, that attitude right there is a good indication that you have little homeschool knowledge. Do you really think just anyone would want to keep their kids home a day for the fun of it?





Quoting Neko_Nightstar:

Well, what are your views? That anyone should be allowed to declare themselves a teacher and damage their child's education beyond repair?

Quoting ceckyl: Well, obviously we have different views.







Quoting Neko_Nightstar:

Uh, re-read the sentences highlighted in red and then try that one again.

I never said I was anti-home schooling. I said the exact opposite, as a matter of fact. I also say that not all women are meant to be mothers but that doesn't mean that I don't believe anyone should be a mother. Not everyone is meant to own a pet but I am not against people having pets. I think that, for many children, it is a great thing. My cousins were all home schooled and they were very advanced for their ages. I was very advanced in reading. In 4th grade, I tested on a high school reading level. By the 6th grade, I was on a college reading level. I know kids that spend their entire lives in PS that can barely read as adults. Unfortunately, the majority of home schooled kids that end up in PS are the ones whose parents aren't doing anything for them and they get fed up. My mother recognized her limitations so, when I got to the point that I knew more math than she did, she put me back in school.

I think that the companies that provide the home schooling course work should have classes every semester to teach the materials to the parents, and teach them how to teach it, and then the parents should have to pass a test, on both contend and teaching methods, before they can teach their child. Then, they should have to prove that they are, in fact, teaching them because, if the parents don't do what they are supposed to, it is the child that suffers. Some parents know the material but do not know how to teach it. Some parents know how to teach but they do not know how to teach to young children (as was the case of a high school teacher I knew that tried to teach her kindergartner). I would not home school without seeking the training that I needed first. I am going to go to school for four years to learn how to be a teacher. Why should a mother be able to teach when her only qualification is that she pushed a human out of her vagina?

Quoting ceckyl: Ok so think about it like this : lots of kids that go from homeschooling to public school Donal because it is not working for their family, the kids rant thriving ect. HOWEVER, out of the homeschool population, very few end up going to PS. you can't put a label on all of homeschool by the failures.









Quoting Neko_Nightstar:

When I was in the 6th grade, we had a new student that was in my class. He had been home schooled since kindergarten and he did not have the basic reading comprehension skills of a 1st grader. His mother didn't teach him. He spent his days watching TV and playing video games because his mother didn't want to teach him. I knew several kids that this happened to: home schooled kids in high school that didn't know what a noun was, middle schoolers that didn't know how to multiply double digit numbers or count by tens, college students that don't know that you are supposed to capitalize city names because they were not taught. I myself was home schooled between the ages of 6 and 10. I was very advanced in reading and language arts but, in math and history and science, I was severely lacking because my mother didn't know how to teach it. I am studying to be a teacher myself but I still struggle in math. I am not anti home schooling. I just don't think that every mother who decides they don't want to send their kids to school should be allowed to claim that they are home schooling. Some parents are deligent and are better teachers than the public school system. Some parents have good intentions but just do not follow through. Some parents just don't want to send their kids to school so they claim they are home schooling so that they don't have to.

Quoting ceckyl: I seriously question that you actually know ANY.











Quoting Neko_Nightstar:

I agree with it. I know plenty of "homeschooled" kids that are in the 6th grade and can't even read. It's ridiculous. It's about time someone made these parents accountable.








maxswolfsuit
by Platinum Member on Dec. 20, 2013 at 6:05 AM

You've researched the laws of each individual state?  I've looked into the laws of several states and I only know of one that requires testing. How many do you know of that require it?


The bottom line is that all kids in school test and all homeschoolers don't. So there's no real data to compare the two. Splitting hairs over the link I used that you don't like doesn't change that fact. 

Quoting sha_lyn68:

My source is the individual laws of each state. Reseach them. 

Quoting maxswolfsuit:

If you have another source I'd be curious to see it. 

What states require testing?

Quoting sha_lyn68:

No it isn't "pretty logical" at all. What is logical is that if a parent has doubts about whether their child is performing at grade level. they will elect to test even if not required.

Also, HSLDA map is known for being very highly inaccurate. They rate states that allow religious cover schools as having no notification even if the law requires them to be tested. Even at that, going by that map 1/2 the states require testing or other forms of evaluation. How does1/2=  "very few"

Quoting maxswolfsuit:

Even in states where testing is mandatory the enforcement is inconsistent. And very few states require testing. 

I live in a state with "moderate" regulations and very few homeschoolers participate in testing. I teach in a district with hundreds of thousands and students and less than 100 homeschool students took standardized  tests in grades 3-12 last year. That's a tiny fraction of the students in the district who are registered as being home schooled. But the ones that did test perform very well. It's pretty logical to conclude that the only parents who want their children tested are the ones making sure the students will test well. So that tiny fraction represents the entire homeschool population for my district. I assume the rest of the state is represented in the same way. 

http://www.hslda.org/laws/default.asp

Quoting sha_lyn68:

How exactly do you think that the "worst perform homeschoolers" opt out of testing? Homeschoolers that are tested are typically tested because it is required by law where they live. Those that are not require to by law wouldn't be reporting their test results to anyone. Your opinion might hold water if the only/main source of scores was from independent testing agencies or from the parents themselves. However many of the scores come directly from the state departments of education that require testing of homeschoolers.

Quoting maxswolfsuit:

That's not necessarily true since all homeschool students don't participate in standardized testing. 

Yes, the ones tested perform better. But all students who attend public schools are tested. The worst performing homeschoolers like the ones I'm refering to aren't included in all those statics because they seldom, if ever, test. 

As far as I know (and I have looked) there has never been a double blind study to compare the effectivness of public school to homeschool. There are many factors that impact student achievement such as socioeconomic status, primary language spoken, learning and other disabilities, IQ and even parental support. The population of homeschoolers taking standardized tests isn't equivalent to the general population of public school students in any of those areas. So homeschooling in and of itself hasn't ever been proven to be the sole reason for that increase in achievement. 

A study of similar populations of homeschool and public school students would be interesting. But no one has the motivation to do such a study so I doubt we will ever have data that reflects the true impact of homeschooling. 







sha_lyn68
by Platinum Member on Dec. 20, 2013 at 10:57 AM

Many of them over the years, yes. I've been a part of the homeschooling community for 12 years. I've networked with homeschoolers all over the world and often look up information for those inquiring about homeschooling.

Go back and look at the map you linked to. Even according to it, 1/2 the states (that would be 25) require testing, portfolio evaluations, and/or teacher evaluations. As said before they are known for listing states with any religious statutes as being easier even if testing is required.


Also you claim that very few homeschoolers in your state participate in testing. I wonder how you would know that. If testing is not required, then the testing wouldn't be reported to the state. If you are referring to optional testing offer by the school districts, that is not the only standardized testing available.


ETA: A good example of HSLDA's religious lean to the ratings on the map is Alabama. Technically homeschooling isn't even allowed in AL. What is allowed is enrollment in an approved religious school that offers an at home program, or one can hire a teacher certified to teach in AL. However they list it under the easiest category.

Quoting maxswolfsuit:

You've researched the laws of each individual state?  I've looked into the laws of several states and I only know of one that requires testing. How many do you know of that require it?


The bottom line is that all kids in school test and all homeschoolers don't. So there's no real data to compare the two. Splitting hairs over the link I used that you don't like doesn't change that fact. 

Quoting sha_lyn68:

My source is the individual laws of each state. Reseach them. 

Quoting maxswolfsuit:

If you have another source I'd be curious to see it. 

What states require testing?

Quoting sha_lyn68:

No it isn't "pretty logical" at all. What is logical is that if a parent has doubts about whether their child is performing at grade level. they will elect to test even if not required.

Also, HSLDA map is known for being very highly inaccurate. They rate states that allow religious cover schools as having no notification even if the law requires them to be tested. Even at that, going by that map 1/2 the states require testing or other forms of evaluation. How does1/2=  "very few"

Quoting maxswolfsuit:

Even in states where testing is mandatory the enforcement is inconsistent. And very few states require testing. 

I live in a state with "moderate" regulations and very few homeschoolers participate in testing. I teach in a district with hundreds of thousands and students and less than 100 homeschool students took standardized  tests in grades 3-12 last year. That's a tiny fraction of the students in the district who are registered as being home schooled. But the ones that did test perform very well. It's pretty logical to conclude that the only parents who want their children tested are the ones making sure the students will test well. So that tiny fraction represents the entire homeschool population for my district. I assume the rest of the state is represented in the same way. 

http://www.hslda.org/laws/default.asp

Quoting sha_lyn68:

How exactly do you think that the "worst perform homeschoolers" opt out of testing? Homeschoolers that are tested are typically tested because it is required by law where they live. Those that are not require to by law wouldn't be reporting their test results to anyone. Your opinion might hold water if the only/main source of scores was from independent testing agencies or from the parents themselves. However many of the scores come directly from the state departments of education that require testing of homeschoolers.

Quoting maxswolfsuit:

That's not necessarily true since all homeschool students don't participate in standardized testing. 

Yes, the ones tested perform better. But all students who attend public schools are tested. The worst performing homeschoolers like the ones I'm refering to aren't included in all those statics because they seldom, if ever, test. 

As far as I know (and I have looked) there has never been a double blind study to compare the effectivness of public school to homeschool. There are many factors that impact student achievement such as socioeconomic status, primary language spoken, learning and other disabilities, IQ and even parental support. The population of homeschoolers taking standardized tests isn't equivalent to the general population of public school students in any of those areas. So homeschooling in and of itself hasn't ever been proven to be the sole reason for that increase in achievement. 

A study of similar populations of homeschool and public school students would be interesting. But no one has the motivation to do such a study so I doubt we will ever have data that reflects the true impact of homeschooling. 








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