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The future will be eco-socialist?

Posted by on Dec. 15, 2017 at 8:54 PM
  • 85 Replies

This is a spin-off from the thread: Is there really a way to break free from the cycle of poverty?

Someone there wanted to debate the quote:

"the future will be eco-socialist, because without eco-socialism there will be no future."

(which appears to be by Joel Kovel)

But that was kind of off-topic, so here's a thread for it.

by on Dec. 15, 2017 at 8:54 PM
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Replies (1-10):
Clairwil
by Platinum Member on Dec. 15, 2017 at 8:55 PM

For those not familiar with that political philosophy, According to WikiPedia:

Eco-socialists generally believe that the expansion of the capitalist system is the cause of social exclusionpovertywar and environmental degradation through globalization and imperialism, under the supervision of repressive states and transnational structures.

Eco-socialists advocate dismantling capitalism, focusing on common ownership of the means of production by freely associated producers, and restoring the commons.


According to eco-socialists, it is  "a vision of a transformed society in harmony with nature, and the development of practices that can attain it, based on a perspective that regards other species and natural ecosystems as valuable in themselves and as partners in a common destiny."

Anonymous
by Anonymous 1 on Dec. 15, 2017 at 8:57 PM
2 moms liked this
It would be better for the 90% of us who don't own the lion's share of the assets in the US. Although the rich are very, very adept at making us fight amongst ourselves for the crumbs they don't yet own.
RaverLady
by on Dec. 15, 2017 at 9:02 PM

We had better get eco-something, quick.



Anonymous
by Anonymous 2 on Dec. 15, 2017 at 9:04 PM
I'm a firm believer in socialism.
Clairwil
by Platinum Member on Dec. 15, 2017 at 9:04 PM
1 mom liked this


Quoting Anonymous 1: It would be better for the 90% of us who don't own the lion's share of the assets in the US. Although the rich are very, very adept at making us fight amongst ourselves for the crumbs they don't yet own.

Would it be better?

Yes, they'd get a bigger share of the pie than they currently do:

Related image


but if the pie doesn't grow as fast under eco-socialism, as it grows under capitalism, in the long term they will still end up with a smaller absolute amount.

And the track record of nation-level attempts at "common ownership of the means of production", has not been glorious, when it comes to managing an economy.

Anonymous
by Anonymous 3 on Dec. 15, 2017 at 9:08 PM
Nope look where socialism has gotten Venezuela or other counties that are bankrupt.

Quoting Anonymous 2: I'm a firm believer in socialism.
Clairwil
by Platinum Member on Dec. 15, 2017 at 9:08 PM


Quoting Anonymous 2: I'm a firm believer in socialism.

Which sort?

(There's a list in the post : Terminology)

Clairwil
by Platinum Member on Dec. 15, 2017 at 9:11 PM


Quoting RaverLady:

We had better get eco-something, quick.

Eco-something would be nice, but even if we keep pumping fossil fuel fumes into the atmosphere, it won't wipe out our species (unless a nuclear war is trigged by increased competition over food or something, which fingers crossed it won't be).

It might be a pretty miserable future, that looks back upon the last 50 years as a semi-mythical "golden age".

Anonymous
by Anonymous 1 on Dec. 15, 2017 at 9:13 PM
5 moms liked this
I don't think people *today* would be successful with equal ownership, because we've all been trained with that "bootstraps" mentality, also the "I got mine, screw you" view. People really refuse to admit that the majority of Americans are only one catastrophe away from being screwed. One diagnosis, accident or disaster would shatter the average American and it would take years to climb out of the hole. We've also been programmed to think it's the absolute fault of the poor person for being poor, no questions, no gray areas.

Yet we really need to do something about the laissez-faire capitalism system we have, before it's too far gone to come back from. We're not just destroying ourselves with the massive income inequality, we are destroying the planet which has finite resources.

We need to start caring about each other and actually wanting to help one another. I truly think that would be possible, if we stopped letting the oligarchs win at pitting all the rest of us against each other, so they can just obtain even more, and take the rest of what we have. That kind of unchecked power only leads to more greed and more asset accumulation for the small number who already own most of everything.

Quoting Clairwil:

Quoting Anonymous 1: It would be better for the 90% of us who don't own the lion's share of the assets in the US. Although the rich are very, very adept at making us fight amongst ourselves for the crumbs they don't yet own.

Would it be better?

Yes, they'd get a bigger share of the pie than they currently do:

Related image

but if the pie doesn't grow as fast under eco-socialism, as it grows under capitalism, in the long term they will still end up with a smaller absolute amount.

And the track record of nation-level attempts at "common ownership of the means of production", has not been glorious, when it comes to managing an economy.

Anonymous
by Anonymous 1 on Dec. 15, 2017 at 9:16 PM
I'm honestly more worried about disease, or unchecked viruses, from the explosive population growth in the world, and the fact that a vast number of people live without basic sanitation and access to health care. Look what ebola did in Africa, in such a short time frame, for example.

Quoting Clairwil:

Quoting RaverLady:

We had better get eco-something, quick.

Eco-something would be nice, but even if we keep pumping fossil fuel fumes into the atmosphere, it won't wipe out our species (unless a nuclear war is trigged by increased competition over food or something, which fingers crossed it won't be).

It might be a pretty miserable future, that looks back upon the last 50 years as a semi-mythical "golden age".

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