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Demonstrating Diligence

Posted by on Sep. 21, 2013 at 4:14 AM
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I've had a real issue with my kids lately when it comes to diligently responding to a request. Aside from demonstrating it myself, do you have any suggestions as to ways I can help them understand the importance? They are 7 and (nearly) 5. I tried googling it and basically all the suggestions involved Proverbs, excessive chores with unrealistically high standards and other questionable practices that generally encouraged the "training" of drones rather than the intellectual and emotional growth of individual humans.

~SONGBIRD~

by on Sep. 21, 2013 at 4:14 AM
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jen2150
by Member on Sep. 21, 2013 at 9:28 AM

I have been working on trying to instill intrinsic motivation.  It is not easy doing it for myself much less trying to help my children develop it.  One thing that has helped me has been taking karate together.  My instructor is awesome.  He has a saying called PCP.  Praise correction Praise.  They don't ever say anything negative.  They look for positive things that you are doing right.  The idea is help you to try harder.  They will correct what you are doing wrong but it never feels negative.  I always leave so encouraged.  The things I have learned in class has really helped me at home with my children.  Every month we have a life skill.  This month is persistance.  Every day we all create 7 daily goals.  They can be anything but they must be varied.  We will create goals that cover relationships with family, personal goals, and even educational goals.  I read stories to them which have a moral having to do with our lifeskill or any area they are having trouble.  I suggest talking to them about the importance of being trustworthy.  They are young and probably won't sink everything in but they will get something.  As they get older the talks will make more sense.

Also remember training merely refers to teaching.  Teaching can be passive or active.  We are constantly teaching our children.  I think stories are sometimes one of the most important ways to teach children.  I hope this helps.  

LindaClement
by Group Owner on Sep. 22, 2013 at 2:51 AM

What kind of 'request' are we talking about?

'Could you come and eat some of this chocolate for me?'

or

'Interrupt whatever interesting thing you're doing over there to do something I think is boring and annoying over hear'?

Consider the request involved... do you think it's attractive? Fun? Preferrable to the interrupted activity? Important to anyone but you? 

Diligence is most easily demonstrated in humans in doing things they believe are important for reasons that are important to them.

Is there a reason this week is 'diligence'?

LindaClement
by Group Owner on Sep. 22, 2013 at 2:54 AM

I'm not sure you can 'instill' intrinsic motivation... although it is frighteningly simple to demolish it.

Praise is a serious problem, psychologically. Giving accurate feedback is not 'praise' ... it's accurate mirroring of what is happening and its outcome (which is utterly neutral) ... 

In the context of accurately mirroring what is actually happening, there is nothing 'negative' to share.

Quoting jen2150:

I have been working on trying to instill intrinsic motivation.  It is not easy doing it for myself much less trying to help my children develop it.  One thing that has helped me has been taking karate together.  My instructor is awesome.  He has a saying called PCP.  Praise correction Praise.  They don't ever say anything negative.  They look for positive things that you are doing right.  The idea is help you to try harder.  They will correct what you are doing wrong but it never feels negative.  I always leave so encouraged.  The things I have learned in class has really helped me at home with my children.  Every month we have a life skill.  This month is persistance.  Every day we all create 7 daily goals.  They can be anything but they must be varied.  We will create goals that cover relationships with family, personal goals, and even educational goals.  I read stories to them which have a moral having to do with our lifeskill or any area they are having trouble.  I suggest talking to them about the importance of being trustworthy.  They are young and probably won't sink everything in but they will get something.  As they get older the talks will make more sense.

Also remember training merely refers to teaching.  Teaching can be passive or active.  We are constantly teaching our children.  I think stories are sometimes one of the most important ways to teach children.  I hope this helps.  


jen2150
by Member on Sep. 22, 2013 at 8:32 AM
Intrinsic motivation is the only only one that lasts. I have instilled it in my children by creating an environment that helps it to flourish. I can't make them do whatever I want but I can create an environment which makes it more likely to develop. My son when he was 5 came to me and verbally asked me to teach him to read. I merely set up an environment that made him want to learn. I also think that intrinsic motivation develops naturally in everyone but many times it gets trampled out by others. We lose our motivation by having things that are not our own pushed upon us. I encourage my kids to set goals. They pick their own goals. Setting goals is not something that comes natural for a lot of people. Perhaps instill is the wrong word. I definitely encourage. Praise is not a bad thing. If you want to call it positive feedback that is fine. I found that concentrating on the positive things to be a lot more helpful.
Quoting LindaClement:

I'm not sure you can 'instill' intrinsic motivation... although it is frighteningly simple to demolish it.

Praise is a serious problem, psychologically. Giving accurate feedback is not 'praise' ... it's accurate mirroring of what is happening and its outcome (which is utterly neutral) ... 

In the context of accurately mirroring what is actually happening, there is nothing 'negative' to share.

Quoting jen2150:

I have been working on trying to instill intrinsic motivation.  It is not easy doing it for myself much less trying to help my children develop it.  One thing that has helped me has been taking karate together.  My instructor is awesome.  He has a saying called PCP.  Praise correction Praise.  They don't ever say anything negative.  They look for positive things that you are doing right.  The idea is help you to try harder.  They will correct what you are doing wrong but it never feels negative.  I always leave so encouraged.  The things I have learned in class has really helped me at home with my children.  Every month we have a life skill.  This month is persistance.  Every day we all create 7 daily goals.  They can be anything but they must be varied.  We will create goals that cover relationships with family, personal goals, and even educational goals.  I read stories to them which have a moral having to do with our lifeskill or any area they are having trouble.  I suggest talking to them about the importance of being trustworthy.  They are young and probably won't sink everything in but they will get something.  As they get older the talks will make more sense.

Also remember training merely refers to teaching.  Teaching can be passive or active.  We are constantly teaching our children.  I think stories are sometimes one of the most important ways to teach children.  I hope this helps.  



LindaClement
by Group Owner on Sep. 22, 2013 at 11:44 PM

I agree: instill is the wrong word.

I found that my kids came with intrinsic motivation. I often thought it was my job to stop from stamping it out, or acting like it wasn't important enough to honour.

I agreed on contact with John Holt's ideas: kids are born eager to learn, it's our mucking around with them that destroys it. On that, you and I totally agree.

On this, though:

Praise is a bad thing: it is never neutral. It's positive and directive: 'you did this (what I want you to do, or to be able to do) [judgemental adjective].' The purpose of praise is to artificially reward preferred behaviour.

Empathy (being excited for their excitement, mirroring their enthusiasm or whatever) isn't praise. Thanking or appreciating is also not praise (or positive feedback) --it is (or, rather, it better be!) honest emotional connection to what you feel in response to what they did.

'Positive feedback' is as much of a problem as praise, because it is praise. Changing the words doesn't change what it is, or what it's for.

Noticing things (neutral feedback) is fundamentally different, because it comes without judgement... it's pure feedback without positive or negative connotation.

'I see that when you step that way, your left foot turns out more than your right' --information, pure and simple... what the child does with that information is a private decision, and none of it is for behaviour modification...

Quoting jen2150:

Intrinsic motivation is the only only one that lasts. I have instilled it in my children by creating an environment that helps it to flourish. I can't make them do whatever I want but I can create an environment which makes it more likely to develop. My son when he was 5 came to me and verbally asked me to teach him to read. I merely set up an environment that made him want to learn. I also think that intrinsic motivation develops naturally in everyone but many times it gets trampled out by others. We lose our motivation by having things that are not our own pushed upon us. I encourage my kids to set goals. They pick their own goals. Setting goals is not something that comes natural for a lot of people. Perhaps instill is the wrong word. I definitely encourage. Praise is not a bad thing. If you want to call it positive feedback that is fine. I found that concentrating on the positive things to be a lot more helpful.
Quoting LindaClement:

I'm not sure you can 'instill' intrinsic motivation... although it is frighteningly simple to demolish it.

Praise is a serious problem, psychologically. Giving accurate feedback is not 'praise' ... it's accurate mirroring of what is happening and its outcome (which is utterly neutral) ... 

In the context of accurately mirroring what is actually happening, there is nothing 'negative' to share.

Quoting jen2150:

I have been working on trying to instill intrinsic motivation.  It is not easy doing it for myself much less trying to help my children develop it.  One thing that has helped me has been taking karate together.  My instructor is awesome.  He has a saying called PCP.  Praise correction Praise.  They don't ever say anything negative.  They look for positive things that you are doing right.  The idea is help you to try harder.  They will correct what you are doing wrong but it never feels negative.  I always leave so encouraged.  The things I have learned in class has really helped me at home with my children.  Every month we have a life skill.  This month is persistance.  Every day we all create 7 daily goals.  They can be anything but they must be varied.  We will create goals that cover relationships with family, personal goals, and even educational goals.  I read stories to them which have a moral having to do with our lifeskill or any area they are having trouble.  I suggest talking to them about the importance of being trustworthy.  They are young and probably won't sink everything in but they will get something.  As they get older the talks will make more sense.

Also remember training merely refers to teaching.  Teaching can be passive or active.  We are constantly teaching our children.  I think stories are sometimes one of the most important ways to teach children.  I hope this helps.  




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