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Minimum Wages Could Be Lowered In Arizona, Florida

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Minimum Wages Could Be Lowered In Arizona, Florida

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WASHINGTON -- Republican lawmakers in Arizona are pushing legislation that would lower the legal minimum wage for younger part-time workers and tipped workers such as restaurant servers, just as Florida lawmakers are considering dropping their state's tipped rate as well.

In both cases, proponents of the measures are arguing that the wage floor for such employees is too onerous on businesses.

The Arizona proposal, HCR 2056, would amend state law so that an employer could pay a teenage worker $3 less than the current minimum wage per hour if the worker is employed either part-time or on a temporary basis. The Arizona minimum wage is currently $7.65 -- forty cents more than the federal rate -- meaning that many teenagers could end up being paid $4.65 per hour if voters approve the proposal in a ballot initiative later this year.

An amendment to the legislation would also cut the minimum wage that employers must pay tipped employees by more than $2 per hour. The minimum wage for servers and other tipped workers in Arizona is currently $4.65. If a worker's tips don't add up to the normal minimum wage of $7.65, the employer must cover the difference -- a stipulation that would not change with the legislation.

The proposal, which was sponsored by the House of Representatives' majority leader, Rep. Steve Court (R-Mesa), passed through the state commerce committee last week along party lines. Court could not be reached for comment. According to an article by Arizona's Cronkite News Service, Court said at a recent hearing that the minimum wage for teenagers is "causing employers to employ fewer people. It also makes us a lot less competitive."

The amendment to the Arizona legislation is similar to a proposal in the Florida legislature, where the tourism and commerce committee is considering giving businesses the option of dropping the state minimum wage for servers, currently $4.65, in favor of the lower federal one of $2.13. However, if the employer opts for the lower wage and the employee doesn't earn at least $9.98 per hour after tips, the employer would have to make up the difference.

Since the proposal surfaced in the GOP-controlled legislature earlier this month, some Florida lawmakers and businesses have faced a backlash, with worker advocacy groups denouncing it as an attack on low-wage workers and a boon to the restaurant industry. Members of the Florida AFL-CIO have been leaving literature behind on restaurant tables to inform servers of the potential changes, and the group also put together a protest outside an Outback Steakhouse in Miami Lakes. Organizers encouraged attendees to dress in 1980's garb to mock a minimum wage they described as being from an earlier era.

Outback Steakhouse's parent company, OSI Restaurant Partners, supports the Florida measure, according to the Orlando Sentinel. The Tampa-based company, which counts Carrabba's Italian Grill and Bonefish Grill among its holdings, gave more than $120,000 last year to 32 Republicans running for state office.

Carol Dover, president of the Florida Restaurant and Lodging Association, told The Huffington Post in a statement that the proposal under consideration has been mischaracterized. "There appears to be confusion as to the legislation," said Dover, whose trade group supports the proposal. "No one is having their wages cut. Employees are being guaranteed 130% of the state minimum wage if the employer elects to offer that option."

But Rich Templin, legislative and political director of the Florida AFL-CIO, argues that the measure would simply let employers save money at workers' expense.

"We believe that many people in the legislature, from both sides of the aisle, once they understand what it's about will not be supportive of this," says Templin. "It really is a pretty despicable idea."


by on Feb. 23, 2012 at 11:46 AM
Replies (71-79):
imamomzilla
by on Feb. 25, 2012 at 11:23 PM

 Welcome to Obamaville.

jejstover
by Jan on Feb. 26, 2012 at 10:11 AM
1 mom liked this


Quoting im23vaughn:

I see how lowering the wages will help business. But it doesn't help that worker and it could become a slippery slope for adults. While some business may have jobs that only adults can do a lot of lower wage jobs do not. So there would most likely be a trend for business to hire more teens instead of adults. Also, what do they classify as a teen. Someone in high school or someone under the age of 20? If it's the latter, then you'd have adults being paid subpar wages as well.

As far as stagnant wages, they've been like this for 25 years. I read a stat that stated the hourly wages of non supervisory workers increased 4.6% in the last 25 years.

Actually ... lowering the minimum wage in many circumstances can benefit workers in the following ways 1) making it possible for businesses to afford to stay in business thus keeping existing jobs available 2) making it affordable for businesses to hire additional employees thus creating new jobs 3) and making it affordable for a business to give raises based on performance.

And regarding your concern about these lower minimum wage jobs for teenagers taking jobs from adults -- first, think of a teenagers' average day which includes attending school and participating in extra curricular activities. Such schedules make them unavailable for the bulk of the average 9-5 work day.  Secondly think skills: most teenagers simply do not have the skills, training, or experience to fulfill the duties many jobs require and would not be considered when hiring. But perhaps most convincing is the fact that the bill itself limits the number of hours a week these teenagers can work to fit into this reduced minimum wage category. (see below)

In regards to your concern about who classifies as a teen, the bill (below) clarifies that as well:

D. AN EMPLOYER MAY PAY A WAGE UP TO THREE DOLLARS PER HOUR LESS THAN THE MINIMUM WAGE FOR AN EMPLOYEE UNDER TWENTY YEARS OF AGE IF EITHER OF THE FOLLOWING APPLY: 
1. THE EMPLOYEE WORKS LESS THAN TWENTY HOURS DURING THE  WEEK.
2. THE LENGTH OF THE EMPLOYMENT IS LESS THAN NINETY DAYS.


Source: http://www.mygov365.com/legislation/view/id/4f28eff249e51b9b71230100/tab/versions/


Jan

im23vaughn
by Bronze Member on Feb. 26, 2012 at 2:33 PM


Quoting jejstover:

 

Quoting im23vaughn:

I see how lowering the wages will help business. But it doesn't help that worker and it could become a slippery slope for adults. While some business may have jobs that only adults can do a lot of lower wage jobs do not. So there would most likely be a trend for business to hire more teens instead of adults. Also, what do they classify as a teen. Someone in high school or someone under the age of 20? If it's the latter, then you'd have adults being paid subpar wages as well.

As far as stagnant wages, they've been like this for 25 years. I read a stat that stated the hourly wages of non supervisory workers increased 4.6% in the last 25 years.

Actually ... lowering the minimum wage in many circumstances can benefit workers in the following ways 1) making it possible for businesses to afford to stay in business thus keeping existing jobs available 2) making it affordable for businesses to hire additional employees thus creating new jobs 3) and making it affordable for a business to give raises based on performance.

And regarding your concern about these lower minimum wage jobs for teenagers taking jobs from adults -- first, think of a teenagers' average day which includes attending school and participating in extra curricular activities. Such schedules make them unavailable for the bulk of the average 9-5 work day.  Secondly think skills: most teenagers simply do not have the skills, training, or experience to fulfill the duties many jobs require and would not be considered when hiring. But perhaps most convincing is the fact that the bill itself limits the number of hours a week these teenagers can work to fit into this reduced minimum wage category. (see below)

In regards to your concern about who classifies as a teen, the bill (below) clarifies that as well:

D. AN EMPLOYER MAY PAY A WAGE UP TO THREE DOLLARS PER HOUR LESS THAN THE MINIMUM WAGE FOR AN EMPLOYEE UNDER TWENTY YEARS OF AGE IF EITHER OF THE FOLLOWING APPLY: 
1. THE EMPLOYEE WORKS LESS THAN TWENTY HOURS DURING THE  WEEK.
2. THE LENGTH OF THE EMPLOYMENT IS LESS THAN NINETY DAYS.


Source: http://www.mygov365.com/legislation/view/id/4f28eff249e51b9b71230100/tab/versions/


 

So a teen is considered someone under 20? So an 18 year old who works this PT job would be paid $4/hr. How does that benefit the 18 year old? It basically states, they have to get a FT job or they get paid a crappy wage. There are plenty of 17 - 19 year olds who live on their own or are in college who need a PT job. Instead of them bringing home $500 a month which could help pay for their living expenses on campus or etc, they get paid $250/hr.

What job can a 20 year old get that a 19 year old couldn't do? Also, just because you are a teen doesn't mean adults have more experience than you.

Also, I can see maybe the benefit of being able to not shut the business down. But with the hiring of more workers, the workers are losing still becaus they are getting less money. Now a person would need 2 PT to equate to 1 PT in regular terms. So that teen has to work 2xs a hard to earn the same money.

I have no issue with paying people with more experience more. But it isn't always the case that the adult has more experience than the teen.

Carpy
by Platinum Member on Feb. 26, 2012 at 4:16 PM

I think anyone who takes a job as a cashier, at a dry cleaners, at the local library etc.. should not anticipate it to be a job to raise a family in comfort on.  These jobs are more often than not to create incomes to suppliment the breadwinner or jobs for teens to have spending cash.  Not all small businesses fall into that catagory.

Quoting sweet-a-kins:

 So you think you should be able to pay people unlivable or slave wages because you are a small business?

no

Those kinds of jobs keep Americans in poverty and on government support

Quoting grlygrlz2:

It's easy for some people to say, "just don't hire" as larger companies push the little business out...  Then those larger companies move jobs overseas and the same people are mad at the larger companies.. Meanwhile the small business/entrprenuership in America is shrinking....  

Perhaps someday, some will look beyond the worker bee mentalilty and take a look at what is happening to small businesses in america...

Now, I must go work... ;o)

Quoting 4kidz916:

Thank you grly.  Most people who aren't small business owners don't understand how much it costs to employee someone.  

Quoting grlygrlz2:

And there is the problem..  You don't understand small business... And a business WANTING to hire people~ without it cutting into the growth and development of the business/inventory/technology needed to run business, etc...

Quoting sweet-a-kins:

 Yes

Beginning = minimum wage....

not some pennies you want to get away with paying them

If you cannot affor that, then you don't need the employee

Quoting grlygrlz2:

As teenagers they are at an entry point into the work force. As a small business I don't want to pay my college student with 1 year experience the same as the high school student with 0 years....  As a small business, I can't afford to pay much higher rates than min. wage. 

A paid intern is better than an unpaid internship.  At a $4/decrease in min wage~ I am more inticed to make that unpaid internship a paid internship.  I have more competition with a paid internship.  Larger companies can pay min. wage to entry level $ for paid.  I cannot.  So, if I can lower the rate and still be competitive, then small businesses like me can put more first time employees/interns into better career building jobs.

Quoting sweet-a-kins:

 Why would their age mean they should get paid less?

Interns are different from paid employees...

Quoting grlygrlz2:

A pro~ Lower min. wage for teenagers would give more opportunity to them to build experience and increase their wage.  As an employer looking at paying a high school vo-tech student $4.00/less vs an unpaid intern~ I could actually afford to give them a paid intern..  JMO.

 


 




 


MarGeee
by on Feb. 26, 2012 at 7:32 PM

ridiculous

ReinventingMom
by New Member on Feb. 26, 2012 at 11:11 PM

Only reason I can think of that teenagers should get paid less is that they do not have to support themselves and pay bills. Teenagers are working, for the most part, for experience because they are supported by either the government or guardians/parents until 17 (if foster children) or 18 by parent/guardians.

Down side to all that is that it might reduce jobs available to adults (since it would be cheaper for employers to hire teens). Ideally they would be low skill jobs that wouldn't rob too many adults of the opportunity to work.

Honestly, I think the work ethic is so poor because kids don't have to work hard enough for what they get these days. It's all so often handed to them just because they breathe. IMHO

1Giovanni
by Bronze Member on Feb. 26, 2012 at 11:39 PM

If they lower the wage for them then they shouldn't have to pay taxes. We have a program in our community, that Teens 14-18 can works for the city, they are paid $6.50 per hr, but they don't have to pay taxes.

dellashanks
by New Member on Feb. 27, 2012 at 8:46 PM

Wow you all seem to have it wrong. First the NRLA is backing the bill. The lobbyist on capital working for the top 1% to have more money. I live in Florida and work full time as a server while trying to figure out how to make my degree work for me.  Cutting my pay by over $2.50 an hour is a huge deal. No one should have to work for less in this day and age. Consider that I would lose over 300 a month and the fact that gas is rising would put me further in the poor house.In Florida Bill 2160 basically say I deserve less because I am a tipped employee. However, lets look at this logically, tipping is optional and I work where I work older people and out of towners curently take that option.  Also,  I have to wonder why multi billion dollar companies need a pay break and why they should rely on their patrons to pay the wages of those who work for them. It's actually ludacris when you consider it. I am very offended that people would consider the service industry as job that deserves less pay. Tourism is big bussiness in Florida and they make more than their fair share. This really boils down to those with the most wanting to share the least.

jejstover
by Jan on Feb. 27, 2012 at 9:30 PM


Quoting im23vaughn:
Quoting jejstover:
Quoting im23vaughn:

I see how lowering the wages will help business. But it doesn't help that worker and it could become a slippery slope for adults. While some business may have jobs that only adults can do a lot of lower wage jobs do not. So there would most likely be a trend for business to hire more teens instead of adults. Also, what do they classify as a teen. Someone in high school or someone under the age of 20? If it's the latter, then you'd have adults being paid subpar wages as well.

As far as stagnant wages, they've been like this for 25 years. I read a stat that stated the hourly wages of non supervisory workers increased 4.6% in the last 25 years.

Actually ... lowering the minimum wage in many circumstances can benefit workers in the following ways 1) making it possible for businesses to afford to stay in business thus keeping existing jobs available 2) making it affordable for businesses to hire additional employees thus creating new jobs 3) and making it affordable for a business to give raises based on performance.

And regarding your concern about these lower minimum wage jobs for teenagers taking jobs from adults -- first, think of a teenagers' average day which includes attending school and participating in extra curricular activities. Such schedules make them unavailable for the bulk of the average 9-5 work day.  Secondly think skills: most teenagers simply do not have the skills, training, or experience to fulfill the duties many jobs require and would not be considered when hiring. But perhaps most convincing is the fact that the bill itself limits the number of hours a week these teenagers can work to fit into this reduced minimum wage category. (see below)

In regards to your concern about who classifies as a teen, the bill (below) clarifies that as well:

D. AN EMPLOYER MAY PAY A WAGE UP TO THREE DOLLARS PER HOUR LESS THAN THE MINIMUM WAGE FOR AN EMPLOYEE UNDER TWENTY YEARS OF AGE IF EITHER OF THE FOLLOWING APPLY: 
1. THE EMPLOYEE WORKS LESS THAN TWENTY HOURS DURING THE  WEEK.
2. THE LENGTH OF THE EMPLOYMENT IS LESS THAN NINETY DAYS.


Source: http://www.mygov365.com/legislation/view/id/4f28eff249e51b9b71230100/tab/versions/


 

So a teen is considered someone under 20? So an 18 year old who works this PT job would be paid $4/hr. How does that benefit the 18 year old? It basically states, they have to get a FT job or they get paid a crappy wage. There are plenty of 17 - 19 year olds who live on their own or are in college who need a PT job. Instead of them bringing home $500 a month which could help pay for their living expenses on campus or etc, they get paid $250/hr.

What job can a 20 year old get that a 19 year old couldn't do? Also, just because you are a teen doesn't mean adults have more experience than you.

Also, I can see maybe the benefit of being able to not shut the business down. But with the hiring of more workers, the workers are losing still becaus they are getting less money. Now a person would need 2 PT to equate to 1 PT in regular terms. So that teen has to work 2xs a hard to earn the same money.

I have no issue with paying people with more experience more. But it isn't always the case that the adult has more experience than the teen.

Keep in mind that no one is saying a business owner can't choose to pay a teenager a higher hourly wage than this newly proposed rate. An employer would certainly have the ability to offer a higher salary to bring in, retain and/or reward hard working, fast learning teenagers (especially if the employer hopes to train them with the intention of having them stay on the job/with the company as they mature, finish high school or college, etc)

Additionally, there's nothing to say that a teenager who knows their skills are superior to the other teenagers on staff may find themselves in a position to ask for and receive a raise.

That said, It is my opinion (based on the concepts of ownership, private property and property rights) that hourly wages for any and all jobs in the private sector should be whatever amount is agreed upon by the employer and the employee -- not the government.

Jan


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