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News & Politics News & Politics

About the free Stuff

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The folks who are getting free stuff, don't like the folks who are paying for the free stuff, because the folks who are paying for the free stuff can no longer afford to pay for both the free stuff and their own stuff.

The folks who are paying for the free stuff want the free stuff to stop, and the folks who are getting the free stuff want even more free stuff on top of the free stuff they are already getting!

Now... The people who are forcing the people to pay for the free stuff have told the people who are RECEIVING the free stuff, that the people who are PAYING for the free stuff, are being greedy, mean, prejudiced, and racist.

So... The people who are GETTING the free stuff have been convinced they need to hate the people who are paying for the free stuff by the people who are forcing some people to pay for their free stuff, and giving them the free stuff in the first place.

We have let the free stuff giving go on for so long that there are now more people getting free stuff than paying for the free stuff.

Now understand this. All great democracies have committed financial suicide somewhere between 200 and 250 years after being founded. The reason?
The voters figured out they could vote themselves money from the treasury by electing people who promised to give them money from the treasury in exchange for electing them. Thomas Jefferson said it best: "The democracy (Republic) will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."

The United States officially became a Republic in 1776, 235 years ago. The number of people now getting free stuff outnumbers the people paying for the free stuff.

by on Apr. 13, 2012 at 7:38 AM
Replies (11-20):
mommygiggles317
by Silver Member on Apr. 13, 2012 at 2:41 PM
1 mom liked this


Quoting imamomzilla:

 Thomas Jefferson said it best: "The democracy (Republic) will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."
clapping

Funny you quote Thomas Jefferson... he was a slave owner. he benefitted from the FREE labor of those he owned. I'm quite sure he did not share the profits from the fruits of their labor. Have you read the bible that he made for himself?...

love you signExercising Knowledge, Wisdom and Understanding...

imamomzilla
by on Apr. 13, 2012 at 3:19 PM
2 moms liked this

 Actually, a couple of weeks ago I watched a documentary which included his biography. Yes, he did own slaves...ironic considering all his other accomplishments. While some may consider that a blemish, one should take into consideration the time frame and geography. Monticello could not have functioned without them. In many of their memoirs, the servants were considered members of the family and treated very well.

His views on faith and humanity are often distorted and misinterpreted.

I've found him to be a fascinating man....my favorite Founding Father and quote his words quite often.

:-)

 

Quoting mommygiggles317:


Quoting imamomzilla:

 Thomas Jefferson said it best: "The democracy (Republic) will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."
clapping

Funny you quote Thomas Jefferson... he was a slave owner. he benefitted from the FREE labor of those he owned. I'm quite sure he did not share the profits from the fruits of their labor. Have you read the bible that he made for himself?...

 

mommygiggles317
by Silver Member on Apr. 13, 2012 at 4:43 PM
1 mom liked this


Quoting imamomzilla:

 Actually, a couple of weeks ago I watched a documentary which included his biography. Yes, he did own slaves...ironic considering all his other accomplishments. While some may consider that a blemish, one should take into consideration the time frame and geography. Monticello could not have functioned without them. In many of their memoirs, the servants were considered members of the family and treated very well.

His views on faith and humanity are often distorted and misinterpreted.

I've found him to be a fascinating man....my favorite Founding Father and quote his words quite often.

:-)

 

Quoting mommygiggles317:


Quoting imamomzilla:

 Thomas Jefferson said it best: "The democracy (Republic) will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."
clapping

Funny you quote Thomas Jefferson... he was a slave owner. he benefitted from the FREE labor of those he owned. I'm quite sure he did not share the profits from the fruits of their labor. Have you read the bible that he made for himself?...

 

First let me state that slavery had nothing to do with time and geography and everything to do with economic gain. The economic gain of those who controlled things. It took a while for slavery to evolve into the institution that we know of today. And in order for capitalism to work and in order for a global economy to develop, millions and millions of people suffered. i'm talking about whites, blacks and natives to this land before colonization.

it was just very ironic that on a post about "people" getting "free stuff" you would quote a man who benefitted from free labor. Even take a look at the quote you used: "the democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who are not".

I say these things not to take away from his accomplishments. i understand from my research, that yes it was hard for those in a position of power to turn their back on slavery. though he was the principle author of the Declaration of Independence, he owned roughly 600 slaves throughout his lifetime. I'm always baffled that here were these great men fighting for their right to be free and yet they denied that freedom to millions of people just because of their skin color and for economic gain.

The fact that he was from Virginia is also a fascinating fact considering that the first African slaves in the colonies arrived in Virginia. Virginia was the colony to first institutionalize slavery by setting the laws that defined who was a slave and what it meant to be a slave. Virginia was first to declare that a child born of a slave woman would also be a slave regardless of the status of the father... ironic...

love you signExercising Knowledge, Wisdom and Understanding...

Carpy
by Platinum Member on Apr. 13, 2012 at 4:52 PM
2 moms liked this

Me too.  He did not want to end slave trade with African Countries because he feared making slaves a highly valuable commodity.  People do not realize it but the way the Constitution was written, it was set up to bring the end to slavery.

Quoting imamomzilla:

 Actually, a couple of weeks ago I watched a documentary which included his biography. Yes, he did own slaves...ironic considering all his other accomplishments. While some may consider that a blemish, one should take into consideration the time frame and geography. Monticello could not have functioned without them. In many of their memoirs, the servants were considered members of the family and treated very well.

His views on faith and humanity are often distorted and misinterpreted.

I've found him to be a fascinating man....my favorite Founding Father and quote his words quite often.

:-)

 

Quoting mommygiggles317:


Quoting imamomzilla:

 Thomas Jefferson said it best: "The democracy (Republic) will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."
clapping

Funny you quote Thomas Jefferson... he was a slave owner. he benefitted from the FREE labor of those he owned. I'm quite sure he did not share the profits from the fruits of their labor. Have you read the bible that he made for himself?...

 


Carpy
by Platinum Member on Apr. 13, 2012 at 4:55 PM
2 moms liked this

Many of those 600 were free men who were paid laborers.  And many were inherited.  He taught them to read and considered them family and as stated, he treated them much better than some.  Most of the writings available from his slaves painted a very positive picture of him.

Quoting mommygiggles317:


Quoting imamomzilla:

 Actually, a couple of weeks ago I watched a documentary which included his biography. Yes, he did own slaves...ironic considering all his other accomplishments. While some may consider that a blemish, one should take into consideration the time frame and geography. Monticello could not have functioned without them. In many of their memoirs, the servants were considered members of the family and treated very well.

His views on faith and humanity are often distorted and misinterpreted.

I've found him to be a fascinating man....my favorite Founding Father and quote his words quite often.

:-)

 

Quoting mommygiggles317:


Quoting imamomzilla:

 Thomas Jefferson said it best: "The democracy (Republic) will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."
clapping

Funny you quote Thomas Jefferson... he was a slave owner. he benefitted from the FREE labor of those he owned. I'm quite sure he did not share the profits from the fruits of their labor. Have you read the bible that he made for himself?...

 

First let me state that slavery had nothing to do with time and geography and everything to do with economic gain. The economic gain of those who controlled things. It took a while for slavery to evolve into the institution that we know of today. And in order for capitalism to work and in order for a global economy to develop, millions and millions of people suffered. i'm talking about whites, blacks and natives to this land before colonization.

it was just very ironic that on a post about "people" getting "free stuff" you would quote a man who benefitted from free labor. Even take a look at the quote you used: "the democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who are not".

I say these things not to take away from his accomplishments. i understand from my research, that yes it was hard for those in a position of power to turn their back on slavery. though he was the principle author of the Declaration of Independence, he owned roughly 600 slaves throughout his lifetime. I'm always baffled that here were these great men fighting for their right to be free and yet they denied that freedom to millions of people just because of their skin color and for economic gain.

The fact that he was from Virginia is also a fascinating fact considering that the first African slaves in the colonies arrived in Virginia. Virginia was the colony to first institutionalize slavery by setting the laws that defined who was a slave and what it meant to be a slave. Virginia was first to declare that a child born of a slave woman would also be a slave regardless of the status of the father... ironic...


Momniscient
by on Apr. 13, 2012 at 4:59 PM

This.

And what is the definition of 'the free stuff' anyway?

People are taking the class warfare rhetoric and unfortunately putting themselves on a path that may just be dangerously close to that of the fall of the Empire.

Quoting rccmom:

Posts like this are pretty much useless for a dialogue. Who are the people getting free stuff? Who are the people paying for it? We pay taxes. I know that there are people less fortunate than we are that my taxes support to an extent. I do not resent them for this. I am very happy that God has blessed my family and I do not resent those who may need help.

I do understand that there are some who take advantage of the system. I also understand the need to have financial restraint, but I grew up poor, and a lot of people back home at times need assistance. I would not turn my back on my brothers and sisters, metaphorically speaking.

The part about democracies is something I have heard before though, and I do find that of interest. What is it that lead to their downfall? While they economically did themselves in, I would say it was because the people disengaged from the democratic process and allowed an upper class to co opt their democracy and abuse it. To an extent that is parallel to what is happening in this country as people are less engaged in voting, actually learning about candidates, and as Super Pacs and lobbies, sponsored by corporations and such,  have a greater influence in our democracy than the people.



imamomzilla
by on Apr. 13, 2012 at 5:11 PM

 While I can only speculate, I assume he must have felt morally conflicted too. It's important to put it into historical context. TJ died in 1826 and slavery wasn't finally abolished until 1865.

He died poor and in debt. If his motivation was economic gain, one would deduce that he's sell a few. Like I'd said, from my research, many of his servants were treated like members of the family.

Quoting mommygiggles317:


Quoting imamomzilla:

 Actually, a couple of weeks ago I watched a documentary which included his biography. Yes, he did own slaves...ironic considering all his other accomplishments. While some may consider that a blemish, one should take into consideration the time frame and geography. Monticello could not have functioned without them. In many of their memoirs, the servants were considered members of the family and treated very well.

His views on faith and humanity are often distorted and misinterpreted.

I've found him to be a fascinating man....my favorite Founding Father and quote his words quite often.

:-)

 

Quoting mommygiggles317:


Quoting imamomzilla:

 Thomas Jefferson said it best: "The democracy (Republic) will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."
clapping

Funny you quote Thomas Jefferson... he was a slave owner. he benefitted from the FREE labor of those he owned. I'm quite sure he did not share the profits from the fruits of their labor. Have you read the bible that he made for himself?...

 

First let me state that slavery had nothing to do with time and geography and everything to do with economic gain. The economic gain of those who controlled things. It took a while for slavery to evolve into the institution that we know of today. And in order for capitalism to work and in order for a global economy to develop, millions and millions of people suffered. i'm talking about whites, blacks and natives to this land before colonization.

it was just very ironic that on a post about "people" getting "free stuff" you would quote a man who benefitted from free labor. Even take a look at the quote you used: "the democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who are not".

I say these things not to take away from his accomplishments. i understand from my research, that yes it was hard for those in a position of power to turn their back on slavery. though he was the principle author of the Declaration of Independence, he owned roughly 600 slaves throughout his lifetime. I'm always baffled that here were these great men fighting for their right to be free and yet they denied that freedom to millions of people just because of their skin color and for economic gain.

The fact that he was from Virginia is also a fascinating fact considering that the first African slaves in the colonies arrived in Virginia. Virginia was the colony to first institutionalize slavery by setting the laws that defined who was a slave and what it meant to be a slave. Virginia was first to declare that a child born of a slave woman would also be a slave regardless of the status of the father... ironic...

 

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mommygiggles317
by Silver Member on Apr. 13, 2012 at 5:28 PM


Quoting Carpy:

Many of those 600 were free men who were paid laborers.  And many were inherited.  He taught them to read and considered them family and as stated, he treated them much better than some.  Most of the writings available from his slaves painted a very positive picture of him.

Quoting mommygiggles317:


Quoting imamomzilla:

 Actually, a couple of weeks ago I watched a documentary which included his biography. Yes, he did own slaves...ironic considering all his other accomplishments. While some may consider that a blemish, one should take into consideration the time frame and geography. Monticello could not have functioned without them. In many of their memoirs, the servants were considered members of the family and treated very well.

His views on faith and humanity are often distorted and misinterpreted.

I've found him to be a fascinating man....my favorite Founding Father and quote his words quite often.

:-)

 

Quoting mommygiggles317:


Quoting imamomzilla:

 Thomas Jefferson said it best: "The democracy (Republic) will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."
clapping

Funny you quote Thomas Jefferson... he was a slave owner. he benefitted from the FREE labor of those he owned. I'm quite sure he did not share the profits from the fruits of their labor. Have you read the bible that he made for himself?...

 

First let me state that slavery had nothing to do with time and geography and everything to do with economic gain. The economic gain of those who controlled things. It took a while for slavery to evolve into the institution that we know of today. And in order for capitalism to work and in order for a global economy to develop, millions and millions of people suffered. i'm talking about whites, blacks and natives to this land before colonization.

it was just very ironic that on a post about "people" getting "free stuff" you would quote a man who benefitted from free labor. Even take a look at the quote you used: "the democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who are not".

I say these things not to take away from his accomplishments. i understand from my research, that yes it was hard for those in a position of power to turn their back on slavery. though he was the principle author of the Declaration of Independence, he owned roughly 600 slaves throughout his lifetime. I'm always baffled that here were these great men fighting for their right to be free and yet they denied that freedom to millions of people just because of their skin color and for economic gain.

The fact that he was from Virginia is also a fascinating fact considering that the first African slaves in the colonies arrived in Virginia. Virginia was the colony to first institutionalize slavery by setting the laws that defined who was a slave and what it meant to be a slave. Virginia was first to declare that a child born of a slave woman would also be a slave regardless of the status of the father... ironic...


A slave is still a slave even if you the slave may be treated better than others. You are still the property of your owner. Any children that are born to a female slave are automatically slaves by birth. The fact that a slave can be inherited says volumes. And to say that there were slaves who painted a positive picture of him means not too much to me because, they were still slaves. A slave is still a slave, even if the owner teaches them how to read and write. Even if they are considered a "part of the family". 

love you signExercising Knowledge, Wisdom and Understanding...

NWP
by Guerilla Girl on Apr. 13, 2012 at 5:33 PM

Are you saying that they need to stop giving out those nifty swag baskets at the Hampton's Classic? That would be a real shame...Last time I went, there was a really nice silver frame in there!

Oh well..Suppose I could give it up to save democracy...

mommygiggles317
by Silver Member on Apr. 13, 2012 at 5:47 PM
1 mom liked this


Quoting imamomzilla:

 While I can only speculate, I assume he must have felt morally conflicted too. It's important to put it into historical context. TJ died in 1826 and slavery wasn't finally abolished until 1865.

He died poor and in debt. If his motivation was economic gain, one would deduce that he's sell a few. Like I'd said, from my research, many of his servants were treated like members of the family.

Quoting mommygiggles317:


Quoting imamomzilla:

 Actually, a couple of weeks ago I watched a documentary which included his biography. Yes, he did own slaves...ironic considering all his other accomplishments. While some may consider that a blemish, one should take into consideration the time frame and geography. Monticello could not have functioned without them. In many of their memoirs, the servants were considered members of the family and treated very well.

His views on faith and humanity are often distorted and misinterpreted.

I've found him to be a fascinating man....my favorite Founding Father and quote his words quite often.

:-)

 

Quoting mommygiggles317:


Quoting imamomzilla:

 Thomas Jefferson said it best: "The democracy (Republic) will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."
clapping

Funny you quote Thomas Jefferson... he was a slave owner. he benefitted from the FREE labor of those he owned. I'm quite sure he did not share the profits from the fruits of their labor. Have you read the bible that he made for himself?...

 

First let me state that slavery had nothing to do with time and geography and everything to do with economic gain. The economic gain of those who controlled things. It took a while for slavery to evolve into the institution that we know of today. And in order for capitalism to work and in order for a global economy to develop, millions and millions of people suffered. i'm talking about whites, blacks and natives to this land before colonization.

it was just very ironic that on a post about "people" getting "free stuff" you would quote a man who benefitted from free labor. Even take a look at the quote you used: "the democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who are not".

I say these things not to take away from his accomplishments. i understand from my research, that yes it was hard for those in a position of power to turn their back on slavery. though he was the principle author of the Declaration of Independence, he owned roughly 600 slaves throughout his lifetime. I'm always baffled that here were these great men fighting for their right to be free and yet they denied that freedom to millions of people just because of their skin color and for economic gain.

The fact that he was from Virginia is also a fascinating fact considering that the first African slaves in the colonies arrived in Virginia. Virginia was the colony to first institutionalize slavery by setting the laws that defined who was a slave and what it meant to be a slave. Virginia was first to declare that a child born of a slave woman would also be a slave regardless of the status of the father... ironic...

 

Yes, he did die poor and in debt, and guess what happened. Slaves of his were sold off to pay off his debts. I'm sure the documentary you saw spoke about that. And the same is true for a large number of slave owners. Even if a slave owner promised to free his slaves upon his/her death, if a debt was owed, the slaves were not freed. They were sold to clear the debt. Remember, regardless of how "well" a slave may have been treated, he/she was still a slave. Slaves were property, not regarded as human. A slave had no rights. A slave had no say.

love you signExercising Knowledge, Wisdom and Understanding...

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