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News & Politics News & Politics

Oh you feel persecuted as an American Christian?

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by on May. 4, 2012 at 2:03 PM
Replies (131-135):
bluerooffarm
by Silver Member on May. 9, 2012 at 10:00 AM

 Thank you.  I have also met those judgy Christians.  I think they are the minority, but their loudness drowns out all the quiet good that gets done.  So sad!

Quoting 4kidz916:

Very nicely said!!  I agree 100%.  There is a "reverend" that goes to the college campus my daughter attends and yells at the girls that wear short shorts or skirts that they are sluts and going to hell.  (He also condemns them other reasons).  Anyway the students generally think of him as a nut case and a joke and it makes Christianity look bad.  Most of the students heckle back and forth with him but I told my daughter she should walk up to him and simply say "let he with no sin cast the first stone".  If he's a true Christian he should understand and apologize for the name calling. 

Quoting bluerooffarm:

 I don't feel persecuted because I've never been thrown in jail or missed a meal because of my religion.  However, I feel as though the culture is really down on Christians.  I think a few very loud Christians make the rest get looked down upon.  Most that I know IRL would never say that someone else is going to hell, would not question anothers walk with the Lord, and would not loudly condemn anothers actions.  But they don't make news that way, they quietly give to worthwhile organizations and quietly help build or rebuild after a disaster.  The ones that yell and holler and have a "Holier than thou" attitude make news, so people that aren't in the Christian community see those people instead of the ones that are actually following a Christlike life.  I think the followers of Christ are the majority though.


 

rccmom
by Gold Member on May. 9, 2012 at 10:49 AM
1 mom liked this


Quoting paperorplastic:

 Hey rcc.  We have chatted before.  You are a pretty reasonable person.  This entire post, and the comments I have read lead me to my statement.  It doesn't matter if she agrees or not.  Seriously, I would love to hear a good explanation as to why we are not a Christian nation?  Maybe my definition of Christian nation and others are different?  I am an engineer.  So I look at statistics and numbers to formulate my thoughts.  When 75% of Americans are of a Christian faith under the umbrella of Catholic, Baptist, Methodist, Protestant, Mormon, and any other religion based on the teachings of Jesus, where am I missing something?

I am pretty sure it is because we are coming at it from two different angles. You are coming at it from numbers, and if the predominant members within a country are of X faith, then that country is an X country. I am coming at it from a political science angle. Our country was deliberately founded as a non religious country to the best of the FFs ability. This was done for many reasons. Look at the history of England. At one point, everyone was Catholic, but then King Henry VIII wanted a male successor. Unfortunately, the Catholic religion did not look kindly on Henry wanting a divorce. The king broke with the Catholic Church to reduce the Pope and church's power over him, and his own country. Of course the king then set up the Church of England with himself as both the religious head of the country, and the political head as the king.

The FFs knew the dangers of mixing govt and religion. One poster already posted the Jefferson quote that there should be a wall of seperation between religion and govt. 

If we are a Christian nation, how are the non Christians to feel? I tend to think they may feel a bit like 2nd class citizens. If we are a Christian nation, how long before we treat non Christians as 2nd class citizens? Which Christian nation are we? Are we a Protestant Christian nation, a Catholic one, or a Baptist one? If we decide that we are a Christian nation, and therefore feel that we should make laws according to that belief, whose interpretation of the Bible are you going to follow? And then, depending on which interpretation, do all the other Christian denominations that don't follow that particular interpretation become 2nd class citizen? Eventually will this also lead to persons that don't follow the exact correct faith to either leave the country, not immigrate to the country, or not be allowed the same opportunities, and how many brilliant ideas will we lose? Ben Franklin was not a Christian, but he was brilliant, and important to the beginning of this country. Would he have not been appointed as Ambassador to France because as a non Christian he should not have been selected to represent a Christian country?

That is where I am afraid it would lead to. It would be divisive, and we are a country of inclusion. We stand for freedom, and that includes freedom of religion. 

paperorplastic
by Silver Member on May. 9, 2012 at 1:44 PM

 No I did not know what you meant, and that's the reason I asked.  How can God be an all encompassing statement when there are those that worship other things or ideas, or non at all? 

Quoting matreshka:

No and you know I am not saying that so don't create an argument where none exists. "god" is an all encompassing statement and yes the founders were mostly christian (there were some agnostics) so their worldview is shaped by their faith but they were sure to put protections into the Constitution to make this a secular nation.

Quoting paperorplastic:

 So you're saying my God, and my Christian teachings are hateful and ignorant?  I never insulted you regarding your all about yourself religion.  IMO we are the most blessed country in the world.  I know how God works, and I know without him we as a nation would see a lot more "natural disasters, famines, and un-natural events occurring."  I don't expect non Christians to understand where I am coming from.  If we are not a Christian nation, then please explain why "In God we trust" is on every bill and American coin we print.  Our money does not say in Allah, or Buddha, or The Sun God we trust:)   

Quoting matreshka:

This is a very hateful and ignorant statement.

Quoting paperorplastic:

 Ever looked at other countries that are not Christian nations?  They are not blessed nations in every sense of the word.

Quoting matreshka:

So what if the majority are Christians, which I doubt. I'd have to say the majority are secular.  By your logic, minority religions don't have rights?

BTW I am Buddhist and it is working wonderfully for me.

Quoting paperorplastic:

 Your wrong.  And, by the way this nation is made up of mostly Christians.  The quote "we need to ignore God" is absolutely ridiculous.  I would like to ask those who ignore God, hows that working for you?

Quoting matreshka:

I couldn't agree with this more. I am sick of people using their religion (and I'd say 100% of the time its Christianity) as their guiding principle of how this nation of many different people, faiths, and ideas should be run.

The minute something they disagree with happens they claim persecution!

Quoting bluespagan:

In this nation, Christianity's reach is too far.  Plain and simple, if the only grounds for your arguement against a piece of legislation, such as gay marriage, is that it goes against your religion and your God then that needs to be ignored.  Christianity and religion in general has no place in legislating what people in this nation can or cannot do.


 


 


 


 

matreshka
by Gold Member on May. 9, 2012 at 1:47 PM

That is more of a theological question than an election question but basically people who are spiritual beleive in some sort of divine energy known as god.  Christians do not have a monopoly on the title of "God."

Quoting paperorplastic:

 No I did not know what you meant, and that's the reason I asked.  How can God be an all encompassing statement when there are those that worship other things or ideas, or non at all? 

Quoting matreshka:

No and you know I am not saying that so don't create an argument where none exists. "god" is an all encompassing statement and yes the founders were mostly christian (there were some agnostics) so their worldview is shaped by their faith but they were sure to put protections into the Constitution to make this a secular nation.

Quoting paperorplastic:

 So you're saying my God, and my Christian teachings are hateful and ignorant?  I never insulted you regarding your all about yourself religion.  IMO we are the most blessed country in the world.  I know how God works, and I know without him we as a nation would see a lot more "natural disasters, famines, and un-natural events occurring."  I don't expect non Christians to understand where I am coming from.  If we are not a Christian nation, then please explain why "In God we trust" is on every bill and American coin we print.  Our money does not say in Allah, or Buddha, or The Sun God we trust:)   

Quoting matreshka:

This is a very hateful and ignorant statement.

Quoting paperorplastic:

 Ever looked at other countries that are not Christian nations?  They are not blessed nations in every sense of the word.

Quoting matreshka:

So what if the majority are Christians, which I doubt. I'd have to say the majority are secular.  By your logic, minority religions don't have rights?

BTW I am Buddhist and it is working wonderfully for me.

Quoting paperorplastic:

 Your wrong.  And, by the way this nation is made up of mostly Christians.  The quote "we need to ignore God" is absolutely ridiculous.  I would like to ask those who ignore God, hows that working for you?

Quoting matreshka:

I couldn't agree with this more. I am sick of people using their religion (and I'd say 100% of the time its Christianity) as their guiding principle of how this nation of many different people, faiths, and ideas should be run.

The minute something they disagree with happens they claim persecution!

Quoting bluespagan:

In this nation, Christianity's reach is too far.  Plain and simple, if the only grounds for your arguement against a piece of legislation, such as gay marriage, is that it goes against your religion and your God then that needs to be ignored.  Christianity and religion in general has no place in legislating what people in this nation can or cannot do.


 


 


 


 


paperorplastic
by Silver Member on May. 9, 2012 at 1:48 PM

 

Quoting rccmom:

 

Quoting paperorplastic:

 Hey rcc.  We have chatted before.  You are a pretty reasonable person.  This entire post, and the comments I have read lead me to my statement.  It doesn't matter if she agrees or not.  Seriously, I would love to hear a good explanation as to why we are not a Christian nation?  Maybe my definition of Christian nation and others are different?  I am an engineer.  So I look at statistics and numbers to formulate my thoughts.  When 75% of Americans are of a Christian faith under the umbrella of Catholic, Baptist, Methodist, Protestant, Mormon, and any other religion based on the teachings of Jesus, where am I missing something?

I am pretty sure it is because we are coming at it from two different angles. You are coming at it from numbers, and if the predominant members within a country are of X faith, then that country is an X country. I am coming at it from a political science angle. Our country was deliberately founded as a non religious country to the best of the FFs ability. This was done for many reasons. Look at the history of England. At one point, everyone was Catholic, but then King Henry VIII wanted a male successor. Unfortunately, the Catholic religion did not look kindly on Henry wanting a divorce. The king broke with the Catholic Church to reduce the Pope and church's power over him, and his own country. Of course the king then set up the Church of England with himself as both the religious head of the country, and the political head as the king.

The FFs knew the dangers of mixing govt and religion. One poster already posted the Jefferson quote that there should be a wall of seperation between religion and govt. 

If we are a Christian nation, how are the non Christians to feel? I tend to think they may feel a bit like 2nd class citizens. If we are a Christian nation, how long before we treat non Christians as 2nd class citizens? Which Christian nation are we? Are we a Protestant Christian nation, a Catholic one, or a Baptist one? If we decide that we are a Christian nation, and therefore feel that we should make laws according to that belief, whose interpretation of the Bible are you going to follow? And then, depending on which interpretation, do all the other Christian denominations that don't follow that particular interpretation become 2nd class citizen? Eventually will this also lead to persons that don't follow the exact correct faith to either leave the country, not immigrate to the country, or not be allowed the same opportunities, and how many brilliant ideas will we lose? Ben Franklin was not a Christian, but he was brilliant, and important to the beginning of this country. Would he have not been appointed as Ambassador to France because as a non Christian he should not have been selected to represent a Christian country?

That is where I am afraid it would lead to. It would be divisive, and we are a country of inclusion. We stand for freedom, and that includes freedom of religion. 

 Good points.  Something for me to think about in order to form a good response:)  Thanks for sharing your views.

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