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Questions about Universal Health Care

Posted by on Jun. 22, 2012 at 12:11 AM
  • 55 Replies
2 moms liked this

For those who believe Universal Healthcare is a good idea, I have a few questions.

1. If Universal Health Care is paid for out of our taxes, what is the assurance that the taxes won't rise to a level where these themselves are unaffordable?

2. Have you ever seen a tax imposed on Americans that decreased over the years?

3. Is there any assurance that certain medical conditions will not be excluded in coverage under Universal Healthcare, either now or in the future?

4.What is the assurance that the government won't just deny life saving treatments, particularly among newborns and the elderly?

5. What if Universal Health Care won't cover abortions and abortions without insurance are unaffordable?

6. If the reason for Universal Health Care is to make health care affordable and accessible to all, then why don't we just regulate the health insurance industry and beef up existing welfare programs for low income persons?

 

 

by on Jun. 22, 2012 at 12:11 AM
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Replies (1-10):
NiCo86
by Member on Jun. 22, 2012 at 12:13 AM
I like #6 ... Simplicity!!
Posted on CafeMom Mobile
4kidz916
by Gold Member on Jun. 22, 2012 at 7:46 AM

I've been saying for a long time that #6 is the way to go.  

DSamuels
by Gold Member on Jun. 22, 2012 at 9:49 AM

Part of the problem with #6 is that the healthcare/insurance industry is so heavily regulated by the gov't already, that is what caused prices to be so high. They regulate which tests have to be done before treatment, many unnecessary tests. Part of that is also because of malpractice.

Medical care and insurance was very affordable before the gov't decided we needed more "affordable" insurance in the form of HMOs.

When my kids were little (late 70's, early 80's) a dr. appoinment cost us $15. We had $100 deductible per person. Well baby visits didn't even go towards the deductible. You had to go to the dr an awful lot to cover your deductible. Congress decided that wasn't fair so they invented the HMO with $10 co-pays, but they had to follow gov't regulations.

From their beginnings, HMOs were designed–by Democrats and Republicans–to eliminate individual health insurance. The result is a vast network of health care collectives (HMOs, PPOs, Point-of-Service plans) created by government that are destined to do harm to individuals.

The individual was first discouraged from buying insurance in 1942 when employee health premiums were made tax deductible to employers–not to individuals. Congress created Medicare in 1965, making individual insurance for those over 65 obsolete. Subsidized, unrestricted health care for seniors lead to an unprecedented frenzy of spending by patients and doctors.

Costs went up, introducing an economic obstacle to individual health insurance. As costs rose, those on the New Left, including then freshman Sen. Ted Kennedy, argued that government ought to pay for everyone’s health care and promoted the idea of a health maintenance organization, a term coined by a left-wing college professor.

President Nixon appeased the left and proposed the HMO Act, which Congress passed in 1973. The law created new, supposedly cheaper health coverage with millions of dollars to HMOs, which, until then, constituted a small portion of the market. Kaiser Permanente was the only major HMO in the country by 1969 and most of its members were compelled to join through unions.

Combined with Medicare, the HMO Act eventually eliminated the market for affordable individual health insurance.

The new managed care plans mushroomed with federal subsidies. Employers perceived managed care as less expensive than individual insurance and stopped offering a choice of plans, making insurance more expensive for the individual. The government had effectively instituted HMOs, at the insistence of the left and the capitulation of conservatives and pragmatic businessmen.

Nixon’s HMO Act was passed 25 years ago. Since then, the individual has become a prisoner of the tax code. Covered by an employer and herded into managed care, the individual patient is powerless. Under managed care, if the patient gets sick, he or she may wander the maze of managed
bureaucracy, be treated, or, languish in pain awaiting treatment. The patient may also be refused treatment and die.

Premiums under managed care do not pay for an insured contract for medical care decided between the patient and the physician–premiums pay for the management of care, i.e., health maintenance, by a third party.

gsprofval
by Gold Member on Jun. 22, 2012 at 9:56 AM
1 mom liked this

These are good questions and we already know there are too many things wrong for it to work. It's already starting--older people are basically told there is nothing that can be done--because of their age even when things could be done to help them.  They are pretty much told they are too old and it would cost too much and they aren't worth it.

imamomzilla
by on Jun. 22, 2012 at 9:58 AM

 Can't wait to see the answers.....

godotherightthi
by on Jun. 22, 2012 at 10:02 AM
1 mom liked this

 Can I add another?

#7 - when the beauracracy of the government run insurance unfairly denies coverage, where is the recourse?  Who can I sue?

jlo1313
by Bronze Member on Jun. 22, 2012 at 10:23 AM

 The regulations put in place on the health insurance industry have nothing to do with pricing of insurance policies.  The lack of regulation on healthcare industry is truly the problem.  The judicial system is also a small part of the problem.  But if you really want to nail down what the biggest problem is, its insurance fraud.  Insurance fraud in the healthcare industry hit the hardest in the mid 90's.  It started with overcharging insurance companies, padding bills and it still goes on and with demands of claim payments being a net 60 at the most, the company's hands are tied, because the paperwork they deal with is massive.  Want proof, just call the lab and ask them a cash price on a test you need done and tell them you don't have insurance, then check it against your insurance bill.  Its hundreds of dollars.  Is that fair?

Quoting DSamuels:

Part of the problem with #6 is that the healthcare/insurance industry is so heavily regulated by the gov't already, that is what caused prices to be so high. They regulate which tests have to be done before treatment, many unnecessary tests. Part of that is also because of malpractice.

Medical care and insurance was very affordable before the gov't decided we needed more "affordable" insurance in the form of HMOs.

When my kids were little (late 70's, early 80's) a dr. appoinment cost us $15. We had $100 deductible per person. Well baby visits didn't even go towards the deductible. You had to go to the dr an awful lot to cover your deductible. Congress decided that wasn't fair so they invented the HMO with $10 co-pays, but they had to follow gov't regulations.

From their beginnings, HMOs were designed–by Democrats and Republicans–to eliminate individual health insurance. The result is a vast network of health care collectives (HMOs, PPOs, Point-of-Service plans) created by government that are destined to do harm to individuals.

The individual was first discouraged from buying insurance in 1942 when employee health premiums were made tax deductible to employers–not to individuals. Congress created Medicare in 1965, making individual insurance for those over 65 obsolete. Subsidized, unrestricted health care for seniors lead to an unprecedented frenzy of spending by patients and doctors.

Costs went up, introducing an economic obstacle to individual health insurance. As costs rose, those on the New Left, including then freshman Sen. Ted Kennedy, argued that government ought to pay for everyone’s health care and promoted the idea of a health maintenance organization, a term coined by a left-wing college professor.

President Nixon appeased the left and proposed the HMO Act, which Congress passed in 1973. The law created new, supposedly cheaper health coverage with millions of dollars to HMOs, which, until then, constituted a small portion of the market. Kaiser Permanente was the only major HMO in the country by 1969 and most of its members were compelled to join through unions.

Combined with Medicare, the HMO Act eventually eliminated the market for affordable individual health insurance.

The new managed care plans mushroomed with federal subsidies. Employers perceived managed care as less expensive than individual insurance and stopped offering a choice of plans, making insurance more expensive for the individual. The government had effectively instituted HMOs, at the insistence of the left and the capitulation of conservatives and pragmatic businessmen.

Nixon’s HMO Act was passed 25 years ago. Since then, the individual has become a prisoner of the tax code. Covered by an employer and herded into managed care, the individual patient is powerless. Under managed care, if the patient gets sick, he or she may wander the maze of managed
bureaucracy, be treated, or, languish in pain awaiting treatment. The patient may also be refused treatment and die.

Premiums under managed care do not pay for an insured contract for medical care decided between the patient and the physician–premiums pay for the management of care, i.e., health maintenance, by a third party.

 


godotherightthi
by on Jun. 22, 2012 at 10:34 AM
1 mom liked this

That's because insurance is setting the price.  The lab will charge whatever an insurance company is willing to pay, not the actual cost.  Without insurance the price is usually less than the insurance price and neither are an acurrate depiction of the actual cost.  In fact, I've heard report of hospitals have no way of knowing what the actual cost of a prodecure will be, because they don't operate on in a free market system.

The biggest problem is that the insurance market is not driven by individuals.  It certainly would cost less if the government turned insurance back over to individuals and insurance returned to the catastrophic coverage it was originally intended to be.  Everything would then be market driven and the costs would even out and be driven down.

And I would disagree that regulations have no effect on pricing.

Quoting jlo1313:

 The regulations put in place on the health insurance industry have nothing to do with pricing of insurance policies.  The lack of regulation on healthcare industry is truly the problem.  The judicial system is also a small part of the problem.  But if you really want to nail down what the biggest problem is, its insurance fraud.  Insurance fraud in the healthcare industry hit the hardest in the mid 90's.  It started with overcharging insurance companies, padding bills and it still goes on and with demands of claim payments being a net 60 at the most, the company's hands are tied, because the paperwork they deal with is massive.  Want proof, just call the lab and ask them a cash price on a test you need done and tell them you don't have insurance, then check it against your insurance bill.  Its hundreds of dollars.  Is that fair?

 

 

DSamuels
by Gold Member on Jun. 22, 2012 at 11:04 AM
1 mom liked this

They may "charge" the insurance company that much, but they don't get the full price. Most insurance companies have a deal, PPO, etc, with dr and medical facilities. They take what the insurance company pays and the rest is a write-off. For medicare it can be pennies on the dollar that they get. Going over my dad's medicare statements, some of the charge were $600 and medicare approved $60, paid all but $12 and his supplemental paid the $12. The rest is written off.

I had a cat scan done in Jan. and insurance paid $0, they applied it towards my deductible. The cost insurance was billed for was around $1500, I was charged $514, the rest was written off. It may look like the insurance company is overcharged, but they never pay what is charged, it's discounted.

Quoting jlo1313:

 The regulations put in place on the health insurance industry have nothing to do with pricing of insurance policies.  The lack of regulation on healthcare industry is truly the problem.  The judicial system is also a small part of the problem.  But if you really want to nail down what the biggest problem is, its insurance fraud.  Insurance fraud in the healthcare industry hit the hardest in the mid 90's.  It started with overcharging insurance companies, padding bills and it still goes on and with demands of claim payments being a net 60 at the most, the company's hands are tied, because the paperwork they deal with is massive.  Want proof, just call the lab and ask them a cash price on a test you need done and tell them you don't have insurance, then check it against your insurance bill.  Its hundreds of dollars.  Is that fair?

Quoting DSamuels:

Part of the problem with #6 is that the healthcare/insurance industry is so heavily regulated by the gov't already, that is what caused prices to be so high. They regulate which tests have to be done before treatment, many unnecessary tests. Part of that is also because of malpractice.

Medical care and insurance was very affordable before the gov't decided we needed more "affordable" insurance in the form of HMOs.

When my kids were little (late 70's, early 80's) a dr. appoinment cost us $15. We had $100 deductible per person. Well baby visits didn't even go towards the deductible. You had to go to the dr an awful lot to cover your deductible. Congress decided that wasn't fair so they invented the HMO with $10 co-pays, but they had to follow gov't regulations.

From their beginnings, HMOs were designed–by Democrats and Republicans–to eliminate individual health insurance. The result is a vast network of health care collectives (HMOs, PPOs, Point-of-Service plans) created by government that are destined to do harm to individuals.

The individual was first discouraged from buying insurance in 1942 when employee health premiums were made tax deductible to employers–not to individuals. Congress created Medicare in 1965, making individual insurance for those over 65 obsolete. Subsidized, unrestricted health care for seniors lead to an unprecedented frenzy of spending by patients and doctors.

Costs went up, introducing an economic obstacle to individual health insurance. As costs rose, those on the New Left, including then freshman Sen. Ted Kennedy, argued that government ought to pay for everyone’s health care and promoted the idea of a health maintenance organization, a term coined by a left-wing college professor.

President Nixon appeased the left and proposed the HMO Act, which Congress passed in 1973. The law created new, supposedly cheaper health coverage with millions of dollars to HMOs, which, until then, constituted a small portion of the market. Kaiser Permanente was the only major HMO in the country by 1969 and most of its members were compelled to join through unions.

Combined with Medicare, the HMO Act eventually eliminated the market for affordable individual health insurance.

The new managed care plans mushroomed with federal subsidies. Employers perceived managed care as less expensive than individual insurance and stopped offering a choice of plans, making insurance more expensive for the individual. The government had effectively instituted HMOs, at the insistence of the left and the capitulation of conservatives and pragmatic businessmen.

Nixon’s HMO Act was passed 25 years ago. Since then, the individual has become a prisoner of the tax code. Covered by an employer and herded into managed care, the individual patient is powerless. Under managed care, if the patient gets sick, he or she may wander the maze of managed
bureaucracy, be treated, or, languish in pain awaiting treatment. The patient may also be refused treatment and die.

Premiums under managed care do not pay for an insured contract for medical care decided between the patient and the physician–premiums pay for the management of care, i.e., health maintenance, by a third party.

 


jlo1313
by Bronze Member on Jun. 22, 2012 at 12:35 PM

 I completely understand how it works, the price was discounted because that is the allowable charge set by the insurance company, that is why you were paid so little.  I believe you missed my point.  Hospitals have to charge to get paid a fair price, so the overcharging happens.  From what I see in my area, insurance companies hardly discount any procedure, just looking at my last 4 EOB's, they have discounted a total of $124 for over $2500 in charges. 

I have always thought more regulation were needed to stop fraud, to stop overbilling and to stop underpayment and overpayment of claims.  I believe it needs to start with regulated billing at the clinic and hospital level by starting with setting a fair price for each ICD9 code and setting fair stipulations and guidelines in payment and denial of the service by the insurance company.  It eliminates the fraud aspect within an acceptable reason and it sets fair payment and a way to start to regulate and truly shop premiums charged by companies.  Of course, much more goes into it, this is my brief overview.

Quoting DSamuels:

They may "charge" the insurance company that much, but they don't get the full price. Most insurance companies have a deal, PPO, etc, with dr and medical facilities. They take what the insurance company pays and the rest is a write-off. For medicare it can be pennies on the dollar that they get. Going over my dad's medicare statements, some of the charge were $600 and medicare approved $60, paid all but $12 and his supplemental paid the $12. The rest is written off.

I had a cat scan done in Jan. and insurance paid $0, they applied it towards my deductible. The cost insurance was billed for was around $1500, I was charged $514, the rest was written off. It may look like the insurance company is overcharged, but they never pay what is charged, it's discounted.

Quoting jlo1313:

 The regulations put in place on the health insurance industry have nothing to do with pricing of insurance policies.  The lack of regulation on healthcare industry is truly the problem.  The judicial system is also a small part of the problem.  But if you really want to nail down what the biggest problem is, its insurance fraud.  Insurance fraud in the healthcare industry hit the hardest in the mid 90's.  It started with overcharging insurance companies, padding bills and it still goes on and with demands of claim payments being a net 60 at the most, the company's hands are tied, because the paperwork they deal with is massive.  Want proof, just call the lab and ask them a cash price on a test you need done and tell them you don't have insurance, then check it against your insurance bill.  Its hundreds of dollars.  Is that fair?

Quoting DSamuels:

Part of the problem with #6 is that the healthcare/insurance industry is so heavily regulated by the gov't already, that is what caused prices to be so high. They regulate which tests have to be done before treatment, many unnecessary tests. Part of that is also because of malpractice.

Medical care and insurance was very affordable before the gov't decided we needed more "affordable" insurance in the form of HMOs.

When my kids were little (late 70's, early 80's) a dr. appoinment cost us $15. We had $100 deductible per person. Well baby visits didn't even go towards the deductible. You had to go to the dr an awful lot to cover your deductible. Congress decided that wasn't fair so they invented the HMO with $10 co-pays, but they had to follow gov't regulations.

From their beginnings, HMOs were designed–by Democrats and Republicans–to eliminate individual health insurance. The result is a vast network of health care collectives (HMOs, PPOs, Point-of-Service plans) created by government that are destined to do harm to individuals.

The individual was first discouraged from buying insurance in 1942 when employee health premiums were made tax deductible to employers–not to individuals. Congress created Medicare in 1965, making individual insurance for those over 65 obsolete. Subsidized, unrestricted health care for seniors lead to an unprecedented frenzy of spending by patients and doctors.

Costs went up, introducing an economic obstacle to individual health insurance. As costs rose, those on the New Left, including then freshman Sen. Ted Kennedy, argued that government ought to pay for everyone’s health care and promoted the idea of a health maintenance organization, a term coined by a left-wing college professor.

President Nixon appeased the left and proposed the HMO Act, which Congress passed in 1973. The law created new, supposedly cheaper health coverage with millions of dollars to HMOs, which, until then, constituted a small portion of the market. Kaiser Permanente was the only major HMO in the country by 1969 and most of its members were compelled to join through unions.

Combined with Medicare, the HMO Act eventually eliminated the market for affordable individual health insurance.

The new managed care plans mushroomed with federal subsidies. Employers perceived managed care as less expensive than individual insurance and stopped offering a choice of plans, making insurance more expensive for the individual. The government had effectively instituted HMOs, at the insistence of the left and the capitulation of conservatives and pragmatic businessmen.

Nixon’s HMO Act was passed 25 years ago. Since then, the individual has become a prisoner of the tax code. Covered by an employer and herded into managed care, the individual patient is powerless. Under managed care, if the patient gets sick, he or she may wander the maze of managed
bureaucracy, be treated, or, languish in pain awaiting treatment. The patient may also be refused treatment and die.

Premiums under managed care do not pay for an insured contract for medical care decided between the patient and the physician–premiums pay for the management of care, i.e., health maintenance, by a third party.

 


 


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