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News & Politics News & Politics

GOP Pennsylvania state senator: Voter ID law is about 'suppressing votes'

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Pennsylvania House Majority Leader Mike Turzai said Saturday that a recent voter ID law passed in his state "would allow Governor Romney to win Pennsylvania." He included this statement in a list of his party's accomplishments, which critics of the legislation—including a Pennsylvania state senator—say unintentionally revealed the true intentions behind the law.

"The classic definition of a gaffe is when a politician accidentally says something that's true," said Michael Waldman, president of NYU Law's Brennan Center for Justice, on Tuesday's PoliticsNation. "It's as if he took truth serum. I don't know what he was thinking."

Voter ID legislation bars individuals from voting unless they present government-issued identification at polling places. Critics of these laws are not intended to reduce fraud so much as they are supposed to prevent traditionally Democratic constituencies—such as the poor, African Americans and young people, who are all less likely to have the required identification—from voting.


"Voter impersonation, which is the only form of voter fraud that voter ID would address, never occurs in Pennsylvania," said State Senator Daylin Leach, a Pennsylvania Democrat, during the same episode. "There's not one single documented case of it in ten years. This was always about suppressing votes of people who vote the wrong way."

According to the Brennan Center, ten states have passed voter ID laws since the beginning of 2011, including the key swing states of Pennsylvania, Virginia and Wisconsin. On PoliticsNation, Waldman estimated that the law would affect as many as 11% of eligible voters nationwide.

In May 1, the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette reported that ACLU of Pennsylvania and other groups were filing a lawsuit to have Pennsylvania's ID law overturned.

"We think it's illegal," Waldman said. "And we hope it's going to be overturned." His organization is involved in numerous lawsuits against ID laws across the country.

http://leanforward.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/06/26/12423904-pennsylvania-state-senator-voter-id-law-is-about-suppressing-votes?lite

by on Jun. 28, 2012 at 4:55 PM
Replies (21-30):
im23vaughn
by Bronze Member on Jun. 28, 2012 at 11:52 PM

Accusatory? Do you feel guilty? I asked a legitimate question. So since you know farmers who hire illlegals you have decided that those illegals are making fake ids to vote & since the sheriff is in on it you can't report it to anyone? If I were you I'd call your local news station. I bet if you were at the polls & saw a ton of illegals they would love to come down & investigate. That's always a good news story & fits right into their rhetoric that a large amount of polling fraud exists. Especially, when it would mean that tons of dead people are voting.

I do find it funny that 90% of your post is about illegal workers. You still haven't said how you know for a fact a. ther person is an illegal or b. that they voted. But don't worry, I am sure the next thing you will tell me is that you passed them at the polls & knew they were illegal because the farmer who employs them told you right? Or is it a story you hear?

Quoting specialwingz:

LOL.  So accusatory.  Cracks me up.  Here in TX, I know many farmers and ranchers who hire illegals.  They rotate them like you rotate your pantry.  In a small community everyone knows what's going on.  And, if you think a call to the sheriff makes things happen, then you just don't know how things work.  INS does NOT come storming in to haul them away.  All we have to show at the polls is a state issued ID.  I can vote on my drivers license.  But, I also chose to register for a voter ID card.  But, fake IDs are a dime a dozen.  And, illegals use them to vote.  In a state such as Texas that has a high concentration of hispanic people, it is NOT the poll workers' job to question the 7 out of every 10 voters who happen to be hispanic.  Many are totally legal.  Many are not.  In smaller communities, it's easier to catch.  However, many go to the closest city to vote where poll takers don't take the time or care.

Quoting im23vaughn:

Just curious how do you know they are illegal & if you saw them why didn't you report them to the poll workers. What does an illegal immigrant look like anyway?

Quoting specialwingz:

I am all for voter ID cards.  I'm sick and tired of watching illegal immigrants walk into the polls and being allowed to vote.

 



mehamil1
by on Jun. 29, 2012 at 12:29 AM

Yes. Ok. In your first post you didn't mention all this. Ok. Clarified. The whole thing of "I'm tired of watching them walk into the polls and being allowed to vote" threw me off when it's the other way around. They are being told what to do and are doing it out of fear of what will happen if they don't. 

Quoting specialwingz:

I'm having a tough time telling if you are supporting me or getting onto me, thinking I'm soley blaming the workers.  I never said the workers were doing it all on their own.  The farmers and ranchers are in this up to their eyeballs!  I do realize that they have an impact on the workers.  And, I do know that they manipulate them.  Just as law enforcement manipulates things by turning a blind eye to make certain the votes go in their direction.  Farmers, ranchers and law enforcement...yeah, it's a good ol' boys club, for sure.

I'm pretty sure you and I are on the same page.  But, I just wanted to clarify that we are making the same point.

Quoting mehamil1:

This has been going on FOREVER. This is a theme in every single book Upton Sinclair wrote, 100 years ago. The farmers and ranchers give them those cards and tell them who to vote for. This has been going on for a very long time. Go after the ranchers and farmers and it'll stop. Don't paint this as if the undocumented workers are doing this on their own. They aren't. They are too afraid to say no to the people who have a stupid amount of control over their livelihood or are completely ignorant of what it is that they are doing. 

Quoting specialwingz:

LOL.  So accusatory.  Cracks me up.  Here in TX, I know many farmers and ranchers who hire illegals.  They rotate them like you rotate your pantry.  In a small community everyone knows what's going on.  And, if you think a call to the sheriff makes things happen, then you just don't know how things work.  INS does NOT come storming in to haul them away.  All we have to show at the polls is a state issued ID.  I can vote on my drivers license.  But, I also chose to register for a voter ID card.  But, fake IDs are a dime a dozen.  And, illegals use them to vote.  In a state such as Texas that has a high concentration of hispanic people, it is NOT the poll workers' job to question the 7 out of every 10 voters who happen to be hispanic.  Many are totally legal.  Many are not.  In smaller communities, it's easier to catch.  However, many go to the closest city to vote where poll takers don't take the time or care.

Quoting im23vaughn:

Just curious how do you know they are illegal & if you saw them why didn't you report them to the poll workers. What does an illegal immigrant look like anyway?

Quoting specialwingz:

I am all for voter ID cards.  I'm sick and tired of watching illegal immigrants walk into the polls and being allowed to vote.


Ginacoolidge
by on Jun. 29, 2012 at 2:31 AM

Is there any disagreement here?  Legal voters should not be discouraged.  It's okay to ask a voter for ID.  What's the problem?

Meadowchik
by Gold Member on Jun. 29, 2012 at 5:15 AM


Quoting Ginacoolidge:

Is there any disagreement here?  Legal voters should not be discouraged.  It's okay to ask a voter for ID.  What's the problem?

I agree.

More to the point, the OP quotes state senator Leach who says there's not one documented case of voter impersonation, therefore PA has no problems with it.  That's the thing, though, lax ID laws make it easy to not get caught, so documented cases would be less likely.

I don't like the idea of people being disenfranchized, I want eligible voters to vote.  Yet we wouldn't want an eligible vote to be made irrelevant by an ineligible vote, either.  Both would be problems and voter ID laws should have happened a long time ago.

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specialwingz
by on Jun. 29, 2012 at 9:25 AM

I did explain what is going on.  You just missed it.  Suggest you go back and look.  And, others even noted that they knew it, as well.

Quoting im23vaughn:

Accusatory? Do you feel guilty? I asked a legitimate question. So since you know farmers who hire illlegals you have decided that those illegals are making fake ids to vote & since the sheriff is in on it you can't report it to anyone? If I were you I'd call your local news station. I bet if you were at the polls & saw a ton of illegals they would love to come down & investigate. That's always a good news story & fits right into their rhetoric that a large amount of polling fraud exists. Especially, when it would mean that tons of dead people are voting.

I do find it funny that 90% of your post is about illegal workers. You still haven't said how you know for a fact a. ther person is an illegal or b. that they voted. But don't worry, I am sure the next thing you will tell me is that you passed them at the polls & knew they were illegal because the farmer who employs them told you right? Or is it a story you hear?

Quoting specialwingz:

LOL.  So accusatory.  Cracks me up.  Here in TX, I know many farmers and ranchers who hire illegals.  They rotate them like you rotate your pantry.  In a small community everyone knows what's going on.  And, if you think a call to the sheriff makes things happen, then you just don't know how things work.  INS does NOT come storming in to haul them away.  All we have to show at the polls is a state issued ID.  I can vote on my drivers license.  But, I also chose to register for a voter ID card.  But, fake IDs are a dime a dozen.  And, illegals use them to vote.  In a state such as Texas that has a high concentration of hispanic people, it is NOT the poll workers' job to question the 7 out of every 10 voters who happen to be hispanic.  Many are totally legal.  Many are not.  In smaller communities, it's easier to catch.  However, many go to the closest city to vote where poll takers don't take the time or care.

Quoting im23vaughn:

Just curious how do you know they are illegal & if you saw them why didn't you report them to the poll workers. What does an illegal immigrant look like anyway?

Quoting specialwingz:

I am all for voter ID cards.  I'm sick and tired of watching illegal immigrants walk into the polls and being allowed to vote.





Ginacoolidge
by on Jun. 29, 2012 at 9:48 AM
2 moms liked this


Quoting Meadowchik:


Quoting Ginacoolidge:

Is there any disagreement here?  Legal voters should not be discouraged.  It's okay to ask a voter for ID.  What's the problem?

More to the point, the OP quotes state senator Leach who says there's not one documented case of voter impersonation . . .

Senator Leach will also be hard-pressed to show voters who have their voting privleges denied when this goes into effect.  Pennsyvlania will give an ID card to a resident for free, and if a voter shows up at the polls without the ID, that voter casts a provisional ballot. 

I see a lot of politicians and ACLU types complaining about voter ID, but I rarely see normal everyday people complaining about such requirements, which is why so many states are passing ID laws with so little resistance: voters aren't offended by this.   

buttersworth
by Bronze Member on Jun. 29, 2012 at 11:08 PM

What's wrong with the regular IDs normally used? Like a driver's license?

It's not even eco-friendly to create voter IDs. Trees are gonna have to be killed to make the cards if they're paper, and if they're plastic, they won't bio-degrate for decades after the identified person has deceased.

Quoting Friday:

I don't have a problem with voter id laws as long as acceptable id's are inexpensive, simple to get and will work with those who might not have all their documentation. However, I don't buy that voter fraud is as big an issue as the right seems to make it out to be.


sweet-a-kins
by Ruby Member on Jun. 29, 2012 at 11:16 PM
Please provide a case or study pertaining to illegal immigrants voting to back this up

Quoting specialwingz:

LOL.  So accusatory.  Cracks me up.  Here in TX, I know many farmers and ranchers who hire illegals.  They rotate them like you rotate your pantry.  In a small community everyone knows what's going on.  And, if you think a call to the sheriff makes things happen, then you just don't know how things work.  INS does NOT come storming in to haul them away.  All we have to show at the polls is a state issued ID.  I can vote on my drivers license.  But, I also chose to register for a voter ID card.  But, fake IDs are a dime a dozen.  And, illegals use them to vote.  In a state such as Texas that has a high concentration of hispanic people, it is NOT the poll workers' job to question the 7 out of every 10 voters who happen to be hispanic.  Many are totally legal.  Many are not.  In smaller communities, it's easier to catch.  However, many go to the closest city to vote where poll takers don't take the time or care.

Quoting im23vaughn:

Just curious how do you know they are illegal & if you saw them why didn't you report them to the poll workers. What does an illegal immigrant look like anyway?


Quoting specialwingz:


I am all for voter ID cards.  I'm sick and tired of watching illegal immigrants walk into the polls and being allowed to vote.




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specialwingz
by on Jun. 29, 2012 at 11:24 PM

Come and visit me and I will be happy to introduce you in person to the whole situation, face to face.

Quoting sweet-a-kins:

Please provide a case or study pertaining to illegal immigrants voting to back this up

Quoting specialwingz:

LOL.  So accusatory.  Cracks me up.  Here in TX, I know many farmers and ranchers who hire illegals.  They rotate them like you rotate your pantry.  In a small community everyone knows what's going on.  And, if you think a call to the sheriff makes things happen, then you just don't know how things work.  INS does NOT come storming in to haul them away.  All we have to show at the polls is a state issued ID.  I can vote on my drivers license.  But, I also chose to register for a voter ID card.  But, fake IDs are a dime a dozen.  And, illegals use them to vote.  In a state such as Texas that has a high concentration of hispanic people, it is NOT the poll workers' job to question the 7 out of every 10 voters who happen to be hispanic.  Many are totally legal.  Many are not.  In smaller communities, it's easier to catch.  However, many go to the closest city to vote where poll takers don't take the time or care.

Quoting im23vaughn:

Just curious how do you know they are illegal & if you saw them why didn't you report them to the poll workers. What does an illegal immigrant look like anyway?


Quoting specialwingz:


I am all for voter ID cards.  I'm sick and tired of watching illegal immigrants walk into the polls and being allowed to vote.





sweet-a-kins
by Ruby Member on Jun. 29, 2012 at 11:32 PM
So there isn't documented abuse in this manner..you just know it.?

Ok..


Quoting specialwingz:

Come and visit me and I will be happy to introduce you in person to the whole situation, face to face.

Quoting sweet-a-kins:

Please provide a case or study pertaining to illegal immigrants voting to back this up



Quoting specialwingz:

LOL.  So accusatory.  Cracks me up.  Here in TX, I know many farmers and ranchers who hire illegals.  They rotate them like you rotate your pantry.  In a small community everyone knows what's going on.  And, if you think a call to the sheriff makes things happen, then you just don't know how things work.  INS does NOT come storming in to haul them away.  All we have to show at the polls is a state issued ID.  I can vote on my drivers license.  But, I also chose to register for a voter ID card.  But, fake IDs are a dime a dozen.  And, illegals use them to vote.  In a state such as Texas that has a high concentration of hispanic people, it is NOT the poll workers' job to question the 7 out of every 10 voters who happen to be hispanic.  Many are totally legal.  Many are not.  In smaller communities, it's easier to catch.  However, many go to the closest city to vote where poll takers don't take the time or care.

Quoting im23vaughn:

Just curious how do you know they are illegal & if you saw them why didn't you report them to the poll workers. What does an illegal immigrant look like anyway?



Quoting specialwingz:



I am all for voter ID cards.  I'm sick and tired of watching illegal immigrants walk into the polls and being allowed to vote.






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