1. The word "sustainable" and it's myriad uses to imply that there's not enough of anything on the planet as a means of fear-mongering.
I mean, some of you must get out and about. Ever been to Wyoming? Alaska? Even the woods in New England? Lots of space to grow food, lots of water...throw out the term that pushes the Scarcity Mentality already.
2. Abortion. People who say they want government out of their privates but now want government in their privates to pay for their abortions. Also, people who want government to let their uteruses alone, but now want government to manage funds for the whole rest of their bodies, and your's and mine, too.
3. Gun control. Don't people realize that most junkies that rob people by gunpoint have stolen the guns they commit the crimes with? Why do you want criminals to have guns, but not law-abiding citizens? \
Well, I guess if Joe Schmoe who owns the convenience store can't have a gun behind the register to protect himself, he'll just have to "take one for the Team" - because his not having a gun keeps everyone else "safe".
4. Trying to make conservatives look cold hearted about government programs.
Government programs are abused and exploited. When we pay money into a system that's ripping us off, it drags us all down either into poverty or closer to it. If you don't agree, fine, but we think there's a better way. We aren't being mean to the less fortunate.
Quoting LBAY:
The only ones I see concerned about abortion constantly are the ones attempting to force their religious beliefs on others,it's a belief that this life has legal protection under the Constitution
and infringe upon an american womans constitutionally protected legal right to obtain one.
Pro lifers believe abortion is infringing on the righ to life of a real person
The law already states that govnt money is not used for abortion, here or abroad.
Subsidies are given to organizations that in turn support or perform abortion...some believe such as Planned Parenthood...no money is given directly towards abortion , but goes in through a "back door" ...the govt gives a general subsidy
So your assertion that liberals want other people to pay for their abortions is factually incorrect.
Under obamacare, will they deny women abortions?
Additionally, it's the conservatives who say they want govnt out of their lives, but then attempt to insert govnt into peoples bedrooms and drs offfices.I agree this is true of Republicans (and I also don't agree with it) I guess also you're right when applying this to what is popularly accepted as a "conservative" although traditionally conservatives are not this way. By definition a conservative is just that
I actually quite like govnt in my life as long as its not between my legs (vaginal probe ultrasound...republican law), pushing religion on me (personhood amendments, anti abortion and contraception laws, theological definitions of marriage, etc...republican bills) .
I don't know if I agree or not in whole, but I definitely get where you're coming from and find that I agree at least with your sentiment. Government shouldn't tell us what to do.
otherwise, I really appreciate that police protection to keeps me from getting robbed, raped or murdered, the fire dept that saves my house from burning down, the libraries that make reading accessible to everyone, the post office that sends my letters clear accross the country for 42 cents, Yes, agree except let's not forget the government doesn't give us those things...we pay for it with our taxes and we give government the power to manage those
the social security that allows me to not have to work until the day I die I wouldn't count on it though
, the unemployment that keeps me from losing my house if I get laid off,
Yeah but it's monetary policy that makes the job market so precarious, and makes it an employer's market..I DO blame the gov't for the bad shape we're in as far as jobs
the medicare that allows me to live out my final days as confortable as possible that's not a perfect system either, my dad was on it prior to death by Alzheimers and my FIL is a beneficiary of medicare as well..it has problems
, the military that helps ensure I am protected against foreign enemies
I agree, those men in uniform aren't applauded enough...unfortunately for their good hearts I feel they are being exploited because they aren't just doing defense lately...they do plenty of offense, by order
, the public schools that make sure my children are educated,
Disagree with you there. It can't rightly be called education these days. Teachers are ok, but the system & nationalized curriculum seems a problem
the epa which protects me from drinking water that can give my family cancer,
Nope, don't agree. They have legal allowances for contamination which are too high as far as I'm concerned. Plus flouride causes brain damage. There' s toxins in our water incl. arsenic, they find acceptable.
do I really need to go on?
I guess not but considering, you really do like quite a bit of government involvement. I think the most important thing I wish everyone would think about more, is that our government is only allowed to do what we allow it to do.
I would address your other concerns but on my phone. Lol. maybe later.Wow you did pretty good for being on a phone!
yeah yeah...stereotyping is unfair, but it usually has some basis in reality. I for one am a liberal. I am ardently pro choice, and albeit less passionately, also am pro environment and believe there should be restrictions on firearms. I feel like I have good reasons for my opinions, which I try to base on logic, reason, science and fact. Doesn't bother me at all if a conservative "stereotypes" me as having these views. I do! And I am proud of them! And most people who consider themselves "progressive" (different from democrat) share them. Thats a fact.
What bothers me is when they regurgitate lies, innaccuracies, or misrepresentations of the views I (and many other liberals have). But that's less about stereotyping, and more about willful ignorance and intentionally creating negativity and deep partisan divides based on hatred, racism, religion or sheer stupidity.
Quoting sarebear31976:I totally get that innovation is the result of new ideas, but when you post something deliberately inflammatory, with nothing to back it up, you lose credibility in the group. Sweeping generalizations do the same thing. If I said that all conservatives were a bunch of bible thumping crazies then half the group would be down my throat in about 30 seconds.... and they would be RIGHT! I have nothing to back up that claim and I would have only made the statement to get a rise out of people. And since I am a bible thumping liberal, I would never wanna do that :)
Quoting buttersworth:You have to stir the pot every now and then or your dinner scorches.
If we all thought the same about everything, there would be no innovation in the world. Plus, I really do feel that way about what I wrote about, maybe it's also a vent.
Quoting sarebear31976:
This has nothing to do with debate. It's about stirring the pot.
Quoting buttersworth:
May be, but it was fun to write and I'll tell you what, if you wrote a post about "things i hate about conservatives" I'd be rubbing my palms together before hitting the keyboard, so happy to have something interestng to debate about.
Quoting sarebear31976:
if this post was labeled "things I hate about conservatives", about 20 women would be going absolutely crazy over lumping all conservatives into one group. Stuff like this makes you look ignorant and narrow minded.
I get that pro lifers feel abortion is taking a life. And I respect their right to have that belief. The thing is, thats not my belief, and I shouldn't be governed by another persons moral or religious beliefs. There may be a belief that a fetus has a legal right under the constitution, but that Belief would be wrong. Scientifically, a fetus cannot survive outside of the mother until around 25 weeks, which makes it an appendage of the mother, and not its own person.
And here is where you get into even more trouble. What about the religious freedom of the people whose religion requires abortion? In Judaism, for example, abortion is REQUIRED by the religion if the mothers life is in danger. they also do not agree with the christian ideogy that life begins at conception. When you start inserting this personal ideology into law, you are asking the govnt to privilege, and essentially edorse, your particular brand of religion over all others and that is unconstitutional. As it stands, people who want one can get them and those who don't can choose not to. and I am really tired of people attempting to push these beliefs on others.
Planned parenthood: provides a lot of health services other than abortion. Mostly for women who can't afford care elsewhere. Only 5% or something like that goes to abortion. no taxpayer dollars go to abortion. So millions of poor women should suffer, because a legal service that some americans don't like is provided, despite that there is proof public money is not being used for it? Hardly seems fair or moral to me.
There seems to be a huge double standard here. All of this talk of defunding planned parenhood,
because it goes against the religion of some taxpayers. yet I am a taxpayer too, and there is no talk of defunding many religious programs that are counter to my personal beliefs and are paid for with taxpayer funds. churches and houses of worship do not have to pay taxes nor do they have to report their income or where their money goes, and verify that it is being used for the claimed purpose, via 990 forms like all other non profit organizations. An example of govnt privileging of religion. ministers do not have to pay taxes on the housing, or the salary equivalent of their housing. many religious schools are funded through voucher programs paid for with taxpayer money, in fact studies indicate that voucher amounts are set to the average rate of religious institutions but don't cover the full cost of secular private schools. these programs effectively push students into religious institutions that indoctrinate children with certain religious beliefs with taxpayer funding. additionally millions of tax payer dollars are spent on faith based initiatives every year. with all of the talk about government spending and national debt, the united states loses an estimated $71 billion a year by not taxing churches.
the reality is that I am forced to pay for things I disagree with every day with my tax dollars. if we are going to defund planned parenthood, it's only fair to defund all of this stuff too.
and 1 more thing: how can you talk about being "pro life" when it comes to a partially formed fetus, but in the next sentence defend guns, which have 1 purpose: to kill people? come on now! That is not really being pro life is it? it's being anti abortion.
Quoting buttersworth:
Quoting LBAY:
The only ones I see concerned about abortion constantly are the ones attempting to force their religious beliefs on others,
it's a belief that this life has legal protection under the Constitution
and infringe upon an american womans constitutionally protected legal right to obtain one.
Pro lifers believe abortion is infringing on the righ to life of a real person
The law already states that govnt money is not used for abortion, here or abroad.
Subsidies are given to organizations that in turn support or perform abortion...some believe such as Planned Parenthood...no money is given directly towards abortion , but goes in through a "back door" ...the govt gives a general subsidy
So your assertion that liberals want other people to pay for their abortions is factually incorrect.
Under obamacare, will they deny women abortions?
Additionally, it's the conservatives who say they want govnt out of their lives, but then attempt to insert govnt into peoples bedrooms and drs offfices.
I agree this is true of Republicans (and I also don't agree with it) I guess also you're right when applying this to what is popularly accepted as a "conservative" although traditionally conservatives are not this way. By definition a conservative is just that
I actually quite like govnt in my life as long as its not between my legs (vaginal probe ultrasound...republican law), pushing religion on me (personhood amendments, anti abortion and contraception laws, theological definitions of marriage, etc...republican bills) .
I don't know if I agree or not in whole, but I definitely get where you're coming from and find that I agree at least with your sentiment. Government shouldn't tell us what to do.
otherwise, I really appreciate that police protection to keeps me from getting robbed, raped or murdered, the fire dept that saves my house from burning down, the libraries that make reading accessible to everyone, the post office that sends my letters clear accross the country for 42 cents, Yes, agree except let's not forget the government doesn't give us those things...we pay for it with our taxes and we give government the power to manage those
the social security that allows me to not have to work until the day I die I wouldn't count on it though
, the unemployment that keeps me from losing my house if I get laid off,
Yeah but it's monetary policy that makes the job market so precarious, and makes it an employer's market..I DO blame the gov't for the bad shape we're in as far as jobs
the medicare that allows me to live out my final days as confortable as possible that's not a perfect system either, my dad was on it prior to death by Alzheimers and my FIL is a beneficiary of medicare as well..it has problems
, the military that helps ensure I am protected against foreign enemies
I agree, those men in uniform aren't applauded enough...unfortunately for their good hearts I feel they are being exploited because they aren't just doing defense lately...they do plenty of offense, by order
, the public schools that make sure my children are educated,
Disagree with you there. It can't rightly be called education these days. Teachers are ok, but the system & nationalized curriculum seems a problem
the epa which protects me from drinking water that can give my family cancer,
Nope, don't agree. They have legal allowances for contamination which are too high as far as I'm concerned. Plus flouride causes brain damage. There' s toxins in our water incl. arsenic, they find acceptable.
do I really need to go on?
I guess not but considering, you really do like quite a bit of government involvement. I think the most important thing I wish everyone would think about more, is that our government is only allowed to do what we allow it to do.
I would address your other concerns but on my phone. Lol. maybe later.
Wow you did pretty good for being on a phone!
Quoting buttersworth:Quoting Clairwil:
Quoting buttersworth:
1. The word "sustainable" and it's myriad uses to imply that there's not enough of anything on the planet as a means of fear-mongering.
I mean, some of you must get out and about. Ever been to Wyoming? Alaska? Even the woods in New England? Lots of space to grow food, lots of water...throw out the term that pushes the Scarcity Mentality already.
That's not precisely what 'sustainable' means.
Think of it in economic terms.
If you have $10,000 in the bank but every year you are earning $40,000 and spending $45,000 that's not a sustainable position - if you keep it going then in 2 years time you'll have $0 in the bank.
An unsustainable usage pattern is one where you're using up a resource faster than the resource is being replaced. How large your reserves of that resource are irrelevant to whether your usage pattern is sustainable or not. If you had $10,000,000 in the bank, and were earning $40,000 (taking interest into account) and spending $45,000 then that's still not sustainable - just it would take 2000 years to reach $0 in the bank.
Okay. But why don't we just say, "we need to grow more crops" or something. Why such a beat-a-dead-horse use of the word "sustainable". I read somewhere that that's actually a communist term. Of course, that would be "sustainable" in Russian.
Some things are rather hard to grow, either because we don't know how (eg 'growing' our capacity to dispose of pollution in the environment, once it is already in the environment) or because it is rather expensive (eg 'growing' reserves of oil or fresh water).
I think someone is pulling your leg about the Russians. The concept itself dates back to at least 1713 (well before communism), and the usage of the English word for the concept was coined by scientists from MIT in America.
I'm coming into this late. But whatever.
1. There's a lot of words I don't like too. Like reputation *shudder*. And Romance *ugh!*
2. If you don't believe in abortion then don't get one.
3. I firmly believe that the bad people will always find a way to arm themselves and it would be a stupid thing for responsible people to not be armed. Also, I don't trust our government. I wouldn't put it past them to start shooting us at any point. A well armed population of people who know how the weapons work is a decent deterrent from the government to get tyranny happy.
4. Not all conservatives are cold hearted. Too many just look at stuff from an individualistic perspective. That can have catastrophic consequences for a nation of 312 million people. A good portion of them poor despite working their asses off. They just don't get paid a lot of the work that they do.
It's called parenting. Censorship is public, parenting is private. As a conservative, you should really understand the the distinction.
Quoting buttersworth:None of what you've said bothers me at all, but I'm a little bit confused about how you restrict the word "hate" in your home, and how that is not then, censorship.
Quoting Kate_Momof3:
Oh please...in true conservative form, when you're put on the spot cry censorship and bullying. Could you be anymore stereotypical?
There are a lot of great answers on this thread, but clearly you have no interest in discussing your feelings which is fine. Again, proves that you are a stereotypical conservative who is only interested in voicing her feelings rather than actually discussing a topic.
And "hate"? Is that really accurate? I don't even allow that word to be used in my house because it's so strong.
Quoting buttersworth:
It's not "deliberately inflammatory". It's how I feel.
You're going to discredit my feelings?
I haven't presented any facts, there's nothing to "back up".
When you say I lose credibility, does that mean because I have a feeling and thought a thought that I am not a valid person?
I didn't know there was criteria on what I could think or say.
I made a generalization. So? And?
I don't work for CNN, I'm not an NPR host...I'm just a person.
Why are my feelings accountable to you?
Disagree and tell me I'm an idiot if you want.
But adominishing me, trying to censor me with your bullying...That's rather intolerant of you.
Even if it were "deliberately inflamatory" (which it is not), why do you talk to me like that's criminal or something?
Quoting sarebear31976:
I totally get that innovation is the result of new ideas, but when you post something deliberately inflammatory, with nothing to back it up, you lose credibility in the group. Sweeping generalizations do the same thing. If I said that all conservatives were a bunch of bible thumping crazies then half the group would be down my throat in about 30 seconds.... and they would be RIGHT! I have nothing to back up that claim and I would have only made the statement to get a rise out of people. And since I am a bible thumping liberal, I would never wanna do that :)
Quoting buttersworth:
You have to stir the pot every now and then or your dinner scorches.
If we all thought the same about everything, there would be no innovation in the world. Plus, I really do feel that way about what I wrote about, maybe it's also a vent.
Quoting sarebear31976:
This has nothing to do with debate. It's about stirring the pot.
Quoting buttersworth:
May be, but it was fun to write and I'll tell you what, if you wrote a post about "things i hate about conservatives" I'd be rubbing my palms together before hitting the keyboard, so happy to have something interestng to debate about.
Quoting sarebear31976:
if this post was labeled "things I hate about conservatives", about 20 women would be going absolutely crazy over lumping all conservatives into one group. Stuff like this makes you look ignorant and narrow minded.
I don't allow my son to get away with saying hate either. At 8 he has no concept of the actual meaning of that word.
Quoting Kate_Momof3:It's called parenting. Censorship is public, parenting is private. As a conservative, you should really understand the the distinction.
Quoting buttersworth:None of what you've said bothers me at all, but I'm a little bit confused about how you restrict the word "hate" in your home, and how that is not then, censorship.
Quoting Kate_Momof3:
Oh please...in true conservative form, when you're put on the spot cry censorship and bullying. Could you be anymore stereotypical?
There are a lot of great answers on this thread, but clearly you have no interest in discussing your feelings which is fine. Again, proves that you are a stereotypical conservative who is only interested in voicing her feelings rather than actually discussing a topic.
And "hate"? Is that really accurate? I don't even allow that word to be used in my house because it's so strong.
I encourage them to say "strongly dislike." It may take a little more effort, but some things in life are worth it.
Quoting mehamil1:I don't allow my son to get away with saying hate either. At 8 he has no concept of the actual meaning of that word.
Quoting Kate_Momof3:It's called parenting. Censorship is public, parenting is private. As a conservative, you should really understand the the distinction.
Quoting buttersworth:None of what you've said bothers me at all, but I'm a little bit confused about how you restrict the word "hate" in your home, and how that is not then, censorship.
Quoting Kate_Momof3:
Oh please...in true conservative form, when you're put on the spot cry censorship and bullying. Could you be anymore stereotypical?
There are a lot of great answers on this thread, but clearly you have no interest in discussing your feelings which is fine. Again, proves that you are a stereotypical conservative who is only interested in voicing her feelings rather than actually discussing a topic.
And "hate"? Is that really accurate? I don't even allow that word to be used in my house because it's so strong.
I really think this is an inflammatory post just to cause division amongst people. In the real live world some of the "liberals" and "conservatives" would get along quite well, but its posts like these that divide us.
Mitch McConnell Defends Obama Administration On AP Scandal
- buttersworth
on Jun. 30, 2012 at 9:13 PM