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News & Politics News & Politics

It was mentioned in a post a couple of days ago about the difference between Democrats and Republicans. Of course if you go by what the OP put down it could have been called "The Saviors & The Devils". But moving along, I made a few comments on a few of the 'points' but didn't have room for these.: 

The rich don't pay their fair share of taxes: I know that I'm not the only one who is sick to death of hearing this. Let me tell you a little secret that Obama won't tell you. The core Democrats don't care about increased taxes because 1) They are so rich that it doesn't matter to them. 2) They don't pay taxes, or 3) They work for the government. 

Do you realize that the top 10% of families with income over $112,000 pay 70% of all the taxes? Does this sound like it's fair or that they don't pay their fair share? Then that money that they have earned  is given away to other families. You know that Americans are the most generous & giving people in the world, when they can give willingly. We don't like to be forced to give. Also, there should be 'strings' attached, such as learning to help yourself to become independent and support yourself, which in turn allows someone else to be helped. It also gives people pride to take care of themselves & their families. The Democrats, on the other hand, want to give away more & more. Are they so dumb that they can't see that more & more people loosing their jobs, means less & less people in the workforce. And soon, there will be no more money. 

But why don't the richest people have to pay taxes?  Well here's an example of a real person and how he got rich. His name is George Kaiser, he is a good friend of Obama's and is a top Bundlers for his campaigns. He is #88 on the Billionaire's List and in 1 - 6 yr time period increased his net worth enough to make Forbes 400 Wealthiest Americans.

In 1997, the Internal Revenue Service sent Kaiser and his companies tax bills for more than $72 million in back taxes, interest and penalties, covering individual and corporate returns filed from 1986 to 1992. Kaiser filed returns showing his personal income averaging negative $860,000 between 1986 and 1991; his holding company, GBK Corp., and its subsidiaries reported an aggregate loss from 1989 to 1992 of $507,000.  Only once did he report taxable income --of $11,699 -- which would equal $5.62 an hour. This whittled down from an average of $194 + million a year from income & assets of which he issued Grants of about 58 million /yr or just 1.7% of net assets.

How come Obama never talks about good old George? I know, he's too busy bashing Romney.





















I have to take issue with the headline on Allison's article: "Barack Obama's other billionaire: How George Kaiser turned Oklahoma into his personal tax haven." Allison's focus is on Kaiser's avoidance of federal taxes and doesn't mention Oklahoma taxes. However, as long as we're on that subject:


OCPA's AccountAbilityOK online database of Oklahoma spending, revenues, payrolls, pensions, and tax credits shows that George Kaiser claimed over $29.5 million in state income tax credits for fiscal years ending 2009 and 2010, nearly all of it for venture capital investments. BOK Financial Corp and Subsidiaries claimed $10.5 million in Oklahoma tax credits for FY 2010; the bulk of it, $8.3 million, was the Space Transportation Vehicle Provider tax credit.

by on Sep. 4, 2012 at 3:07 AM
Replies (41-43):
Ednarooni160
by Eds on Sep. 5, 2012 at 5:28 PM


Quoting faire_jour:

Not all, but most. That is why I was discussing "upward mobility". The likelihood of someone being wealthy when coming from very poor circumstance is extremely rare.


Quoting faire_jour:

I believe, and the research shows, that the ability of individuals to "pull themselves up by the bootstraps" is extremely rare. Those who are rich, were almost always born rich. They simply have opportunities that children born poor will never have. If you are 14 years old and haven't eaten, do you really think you are concentrating on the periodic table of elements? If you are 16 and your family is going to be evicted if they don't come up with money, are you going to continue to go to school or are you going to drop out and find a dead-end job to help keep your family afloat? If you are 7 years old and were up all night because you could hear your dad beating your mom, how well are you going to do on that standardized test?

Quoting Ednarooni160:


Quoting faire_jour:

I don't find that kind of excess "inspirational" at all, I find it disgusting. Have you research upward mobility in America? It is nearly impossible today. The circumstances that you are born in (which you can not possible control) are more than likely the circumstances you will die in. The "American dream" is just not happening today.

Quoting I_Do_It_All:


Quoting Ednarooni160:

Good grief..it's almost like the ones who are "getting" a handout by way of tax dollars are mad at the rich for having more than what they are getting..


YES!!!!!!!!! WTF is that all about???? I was at the lake this weekend with friends who make a LOT of money. They have a beautiful vacation lake home, $300k worth of boats, a $100k pimped out dock.. and instead of sitting there thinking to myself "why can they afford this and I can't", I was thinking "HOW can I afford all of this? What changes can I make in MY life to be THIS successful!!!???!!!???"

All of their wealth, quite frankly, was INSPIRATIONAL!

What happened to our country that so many people believe they are entitled? What happened to ambition? And I completely disagree with Obama when he said "you didn't build that." I know what he means, and I won't take it out of context. But I know people who I went to high school with, had the same teachers, and even ended up at the same college who have SO MUCH MORE than I do. So who my teacher was, who inspired me has nothing to do with my success. I'm sorry. But if you are ambitious enough to build such a life the only person who deserves a pat on the back is YOU!


So Michelle Obama was lying last night?


Not all kids growing up  through hard times while poor will be unsuccessful...and believe it or not there are a LOT of rich kids whose parents have filed bankruptcy, lost their jobs..homes..beat their wives..their kids.. Bad things happen to people of all classes and walks of life. 


The likelihood of someone being wealthy when coming from very poor circumstance is extremely rare.

There's a lot of success stories out there.. America has offered up a lot of opportunities if someone really wants to put for the effort to make something of themselves.

Sisteract
by Socialist Hippie on Sep. 5, 2012 at 5:29 PM
1 mom liked this

And the divide has grown wider in the last 20 years.

Quoting faire_jour:

Not all, but most. That is why I was discussing "upward mobility". The likelihood of someone being wealthy when coming from very poor circumstance is extremely rare.


Quoting faire_jour:

I believe, and the research shows, that the ability of individuals to "pull themselves up by the bootstraps" is extremely rare. Those who are rich, were almost always born rich. They simply have opportunities that children born poor will never have. If you are 14 years old and haven't eaten, do you really think you are concentrating on the periodic table of elements? If you are 16 and your family is going to be evicted if they don't come up with money, are you going to continue to go to school or are you going to drop out and find a dead-end job to help keep your family afloat? If you are 7 years old and were up all night because you could hear your dad beating your mom, how well are you going to do on that standardized test?

Quoting Ednarooni160:


Quoting faire_jour:

I don't find that kind of excess "inspirational" at all, I find it disgusting. Have you research upward mobility in America? It is nearly impossible today. The circumstances that you are born in (which you can not possible control) are more than likely the circumstances you will die in. The "American dream" is just not happening today.

Quoting I_Do_It_All:


Quoting Ednarooni160:

Good grief..it's almost like the ones who are "getting" a handout by way of tax dollars are mad at the rich for having more than what they are getting..


YES!!!!!!!!! WTF is that all about???? I was at the lake this weekend with friends who make a LOT of money. They have a beautiful vacation lake home, $300k worth of boats, a $100k pimped out dock.. and instead of sitting there thinking to myself "why can they afford this and I can't", I was thinking "HOW can I afford all of this? What changes can I make in MY life to be THIS successful!!!???!!!???"

All of their wealth, quite frankly, was INSPIRATIONAL!

What happened to our country that so many people believe they are entitled? What happened to ambition? And I completely disagree with Obama when he said "you didn't build that." I know what he means, and I won't take it out of context. But I know people who I went to high school with, had the same teachers, and even ended up at the same college who have SO MUCH MORE than I do. So who my teacher was, who inspired me has nothing to do with my success. I'm sorry. But if you are ambitious enough to build such a life the only person who deserves a pat on the back is YOU!


So Michelle Obama was lying last night?


Not all kids growing up  through hard times while poor will be unsuccessful...and believe it or not there are a LOT of rich kids whose parents have filed bankruptcy, lost their jobs..homes..beat their wives..their kids.. Bad things happen to people of all classes and walks of life. 



faire_jour
by on Sep. 5, 2012 at 8:50 PM

Yes with a population of 300 million, you will be able to find some positive stories. 

For example, my daughter is deaf. Some people told me not to give her a cochlear implant (a device to help her hear) because "some children regain their hearing". Upon researching the "phenomenon" it is sort of true. There is a condition that accounts for less than 15% of hearing loss known as AN. In less than 3% of AN cases, a preemie can regain some hearing acuity. So there ARE cases of children regaining hearing, so should I hold off implanting???? No, of course not. 

So, will a person born to a crack addicted prostitute teen mom end up in the top 1% of earners? I sincerely doubt it. 

And if you believe that is the case, I have some swampland down in Florida to sell you....



Quoting faire_jour:

Not all, but most. That is why I was discussing "upward mobility". The likelihood of someone being wealthy when coming from very poor circumstance is extremely rare.


Quoting faire_jour:

I believe, and the research shows, that the ability of individuals to "pull themselves up by the bootstraps" is extremely rare. Those who are rich, were almost always born rich. They simply have opportunities that children born poor will never have. If you are 14 years old and haven't eaten, do you really think you are concentrating on the periodic table of elements? If you are 16 and your family is going to be evicted if they don't come up with money, are you going to continue to go to school or are you going to drop out and find a dead-end job to help keep your family afloat? If you are 7 years old and were up all night because you could hear your dad beating your mom, how well are you going to do on that standardized test?

Quoting Ednarooni160:


Quoting faire_jour:

I don't find that kind of excess "inspirational" at all, I find it disgusting. Have you research upward mobility in America? It is nearly impossible today. The circumstances that you are born in (which you can not possible control) are more than likely the circumstances you will die in. The "American dream" is just not happening today.

Quoting I_Do_It_All:


Quoting Ednarooni160:

Good grief..it's almost like the ones who are "getting" a handout by way of tax dollars are mad at the rich for having more than what they are getting..


YES!!!!!!!!! WTF is that all about???? I was at the lake this weekend with friends who make a LOT of money. They have a beautiful vacation lake home, $300k worth of boats, a $100k pimped out dock.. and instead of sitting there thinking to myself "why can they afford this and I can't", I was thinking "HOW can I afford all of this? What changes can I make in MY life to be THIS successful!!!???!!!???"

All of their wealth, quite frankly, was INSPIRATIONAL!

What happened to our country that so many people believe they are entitled? What happened to ambition? And I completely disagree with Obama when he said "you didn't build that." I know what he means, and I won't take it out of context. But I know people who I went to high school with, had the same teachers, and even ended up at the same college who have SO MUCH MORE than I do. So who my teacher was, who inspired me has nothing to do with my success. I'm sorry. But if you are ambitious enough to build such a life the only person who deserves a pat on the back is YOU!


So Michelle Obama was lying last night?


Not all kids growing up  through hard times while poor will be unsuccessful...and believe it or not there are a LOT of rich kids whose parents have filed bankruptcy, lost their jobs..homes..beat their wives..their kids.. Bad things happen to people of all classes and walks of life. 


The likelihood of someone being wealthy when coming from very poor circumstance is extremely rare.

There's a lot of success stories out there.. America has offered up a lot of opportunities if someone really wants to put for the effort to make something of themselves.


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