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News & Politics News & Politics

I don't want a Welfare State! (PIOG)

Posted by on Sep. 26, 2012 at 4:25 PM
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2 moms liked this

 

I see many (MANY!) people denouncing 'welfare states' and social programs as inherently flawed, and, I admit, some programs are...but what I don't see (and I've asked quite a few times) is people discussing the Nordic Model...these countries run what is technically a welfare state, and are thriving with their systems in place...economies are good, people are healthy and happy, educations are world class, etc...why the opposition to trying to emulate some of their successful practices?

The Nordic model refers to the economic and social models of the Nordic countries (Denmark, Iceland, Norway, Sweden and Finland). This particular adaptation of the mixed market economy is characterised by a large degree of free market and deregulation policies along side "universalist" welfare states (relative to other developed countries), which are aimed specifically at enhancing individual autonomy, ensuring the universal provision of basic human rights and stabilising the economy. It is distinguished from other welfare states with similar goals by its emphasis on maximising labour force participation, promoting gender equality, egalitarian and extensive benefit levels, large magnitude of redistribution, and liberal use of expansionary fiscal policy.[1] The Nordic Model however is not a single model with specific components or rules; each of the Nordic countries has its own economic and social models, sometimes with large differences from its neighbours.

by on Sep. 26, 2012 at 4:25 PM
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Replies (1-10):
GardenerArtist
by Bronze Member on Sep. 26, 2012 at 7:36 PM

One of my son's friends, had dual citizenship with Sweden. He moved over there about 8 yrs. ago and won't move back, he loves it there.  He thinks our not having some kind of medical care for everyone is unconscionable.

pvtjokerus
by Gold Member on Sep. 26, 2012 at 8:02 PM

Who pays for it all?

kailu1835
by Silver Member on Sep. 26, 2012 at 8:04 PM
1 mom liked this

 When your money comes from the government, the government owns you, and can tell you what you can and cannot do to keep that money.  No thanks.

destiny2nv
by Member on Sep. 26, 2012 at 8:06 PM
I need more info, to really make a judgment
Posted on CafeMom Mobile
GaleJ
by Member on Sep. 26, 2012 at 8:19 PM

You exhibit a basic misunderstanding of the concept. In the Scandinavian countries the people view the government as an extension of the people, the culture, and see it as an aspect of themselves rather than as a separate entity. The government doesn't own them because THEY ARE THE GOVERNMENT! They choose to pay relatively high taxes to fund this function and consider it a good investment and basic to a healthy and stabile society in which they have true freedom, both politically and from want.

Quoting kailu1835:

 When your money comes from the government, the government owns you, and can tell you what you can and cannot do to keep that money.  No thanks.


mommasaint
by Bronze Member on Sep. 26, 2012 at 8:26 PM
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THey also have one of the highest tax burdens in the world.  Sweden (51.1%), Denmark (46% in 2011),[8] and Finland (43.3%), compared to non-Nordic countries like Germany (34.7%), Canada (33.5%), and Ireland (30.5%).

It is also important to remember that theses countries have a LOT less people then the United States. I would never trade what I have now, for such a high tax rate and less freedom to make decisions regarding my health and education. 

tuplamama
by New Member on Oct. 1, 2012 at 1:14 AM
3 moms liked this

 I'm 46 years old Finn. I'm sick and tired for people making assumptions about my country. Government certainly doesn't own me. I have American spouse and I have lived in USA and I see no difference with freedom. On the contrary, it seems often that USA has more rules and watchdogs. Before you make assumptions and believe rightwing propaganda - educate yourself.

Another thing is taxes. I have never known anyone paying such high taxes. And I have also worked in Sweden and Denmark. Avarage worker pays anywhere from 18 - 30% depending his or hers salary and deductions. Granted - Mitt Romney probably wouldn't want to live here since he would have to pay higher taxes.

The services government offers here are for EVERYONE. So for example the free education & healthcare is for every child, no matter if you are child of millionaire or child of poor single parent.

 

 


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JakeandEmmasMom
by Gold Member on Oct. 1, 2012 at 9:06 AM

 The Scandanavian people I've spoken with don't seem to mind paying such high taxes because the services that the government provides seem to give them such a high quality of life.  They look at it as they are getting what they are paying for.  I've never spoken to a Scandanavian who is unhappy with their system.  Quite the contrary, actually.

Kate_Momof3
by Platinum Member on Oct. 1, 2012 at 9:48 AM

 I have a good friend who is a southern Libertarian is a translator in Sweden. She's the first to defend her adopted country's political/economic system.

Kate_Momof3
by Platinum Member on Oct. 1, 2012 at 9:55 AM
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 It's this standoffish attitude about the government that really amazes me about Americans today.

We have a government that has been corrupted by corporations and people stand aside and allow it to happen under the guise of Free Speech. Yet a real government, with real representation that reflects the will of their constituents (because they're PAYING for it) is something completely abhorrent. These countries have the systems they do because the people wanted good healthcare, quality schools, and good infrastructure and they willingly pay for it. 

Our government has deliberately been clogged up with inefficiencies because we the people are no longer in charge. I wish more freedom lovin' people would wake up to this fact. 

Quoting kailu1835:

 When your money comes from the government, the government owns you, and can tell you what you can and cannot do to keep that money.  No thanks.

 

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