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Upon Further Review: Mitt Romney May Have Cheated To Win The Debate

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Upon Further Review: Mitt Romney May Have Cheated To Win The Debate


Mitt Romney collects his papers after the debate (Photo credit: JEWEL SAMAD/AFP/GettyImages)

Mitt Romney collects his papers after the debate (Photo credit: JEWEL SAMAD/AFP/GettyImages)

The Buck Starts Here

Over the past day the game tape of the debate has been reviewed. While Mitt Romney still enjoys the afterglow of the debate, the lies and half truths he told are being dissected.

From tax policy to hiring teachers. From cracking down on Wall Street (and Sesame Street) to coverage for the uninsured. From Medicare to shipping jobs overseas the fact checkers have been very busy correcting the record and pointing out falsehoods.

Even Team Romney had to correct the candidate on health care immediately after the debate.

As I predicted earlier this week, Romney had an October Surprise planned for the President – new policy ideas. But I had no idea that Romney would just lie about everything he had said over the past year and a half.

As the President said, Mitt Romney’s bright new idea is: Never Mind!

But there was a moment in the debate that will be discussed in the days ahead that everyone missed until yesterday.

A review of the debate tape reveals that, apparently, Mitt Romney needed a cheat sheet to keep the lies straight.

The rules of the presidential debates are clear about not bringing outside notes and presidents and aspirants have followed the rule for decades.

Video of the first eleven seconds of the debate available on YouTube shows Mitt Romney reaching into his pocket at the moment he is out of view of those in front of him, he used the lectern as a shield, and removing what appears to be folded papers from his pocket.

We see this because the camera that was broadcasting was behind Romney. Those in the audience and the moderator may have been shielded from his sleight of hand, but not the viewers.

Romney then proceeds to unfold the item in front of him.

For those curious if it could have been something else, later video sheds some light on what Romney retrieves from his lectern.

After the Romney and Obama families chat post-debate the President walks off stage, leaving his notes behind for an aide, no doubt.

But not so for Romney. The Presidential challenger goes back to his lectern to retrieve his items. It is clear that the only thing that Romney takes is paper. Not a handkerchief. Not a white flag. Nothing but paper.

So the next question is: what is Mitt Romney’s explanation for the apparent cheating?

by on Oct. 5, 2012 at 3:34 PM
Replies (231-235):
JonJon
by on Oct. 9, 2012 at 6:04 PM

But here you guys are, still hanging onto everything I write. 


Quoting imamomzilla:

 bowing down

Thank you, thank you!  I'm here all week!

 

Quoting Xlandria:


Quoting JonJon:

(Xlandria in Red)

The common denominator might be racial bigotry. I could be wrong on this, but it has occured to me that you seem to be the only one who brings up the race issue. I believe that in reality race has far less to do with any of this than the very few who bring it would like to believe it does.

Not saying it definitely is that but hey, based on the fact that all I do is what everyone else does I don't know why else people are so all-fired determined to try so hard to discourage my participation.  Welllll, you may be jealous of the fact I debate circles around all of you.  :) Welllll, speaking only for myself, I doubt that anyone is trying to discourage your participation, I am not. It's almost like you're trying to convince yourself of what you want to believe. I don't think you are, I'm sure you believe exactly what you write. But surely you know that there is that little thing called 'overkill' & causes people to tune out what is being said. 

Quoting Carpy:

And YOU are the common denominator.

Quoting JonJon:

Nah, the hash it out you and I had was by far more stupid.

Quoting Carpy:

This has got to be the stupidest thread I have read on CM.




 


          

broncfan
by Silver Member on Oct. 9, 2012 at 6:08 PM

Well, actually it is like a train wreck, you just can't make yourself look away.

Xlandria
by Bronze Member on Oct. 9, 2012 at 9:29 PM


Quoting JonJon:


Quoting Xlandria:


Quoting JonJon:


Quoting Xlandria:

My replies are embedded in green.

I'll go for red.

Quoting JonJon:


Quoting Xlandria:


Quoting JonJon:

LOL!  You ever hear of a little thing called projecting?   I noticed that you mention this, (or perhaps it's part of the quote that I see it more), anyway, yes, I know what projecting is, the question back to you is, in what defined term are you referring to? Or should I just pick one?

One time, in reply to someone else saying Romney's sweating could be due to heart problems, I said I wouldn't vote for someone with health problems and you call that obsessed?  Heh.  You must be getting paid to defend Romney! 

This is a site where people tallk.  This is a site where posts have gotten hundres and in some cases thousands of replies because people wanted to discuss them that much.  You have to get used to that if you're new and you must be new if you don't know that.  I'll be talking Hankygate until I get bored with it. I do understand this is a quote from back aways but I'll just repeat that I know very well this is where people discuss things, I'm not all that new here but I'm definitely not new to blogs or forums so I'm sure I get it. I get the whole gist of the idea. 

I'm not bored with it.

In fact, I saw video where a guy says Romney stuck the notes up his sleeve after the debate and another video where they note how Romney went back to the podium to retrieve his notes and then passed them off to his son. He treats his sons as if they are his men servants and you see how the kids all protectively surround their dad because they knows he's that volatile. I definitely don't get the 'volatile' statement and I guess you don't know how close knit Mormon families are, do you? They are also large families who do things together. I'm wondering if he has any advisors of if he's fired them.  I don't see the guy who stepped between Romney and the reporter who's head he looked as if he wanted to remove.  He's probably gotten fed up with having to deal with such a loose cannon but I'll look again to see if he's there somewhere. Again, from where do you get the 'loose cannon' remark. From what I've read, people mostly say he's not aggressive enough, too meek, etc. Hence my confusion on your remarks.

The President immediately walked around the podium to shake hands while Romney fumbled at his podium. Wrong, Romney walked directly out from behind the podium as well. His son NEVER took possession of anything.   

Wait.  My error indeed, you see, I only watched it once, not over & over & over again. I wouldn't watch it numerous times, no matter who said what about anything. People get paid to do that.

The President left the stage and never looked back at his notes but Romney made sure to retrieve his notes.  His son takes them with a grim expression 

Wait.

on his face rather than the expression of a kid who was ecstatic his dad performed so well!  I think that's the one son who doesn't approve of his dad's sneaky tricks and his dad rubbed it in his face. You are free to think what you want. I don't think it is fair however to assume to know what others think or why they act a certain way. I found that when I did that in the past, I was always wrong.

Apparently you do have a very active imagination.

I've already acknowledged I have a good imagination.  I suppose and guess and theorize and hypothesize all the time.  Doing so makes life interesting.  Don't you cultivate your child(ren)'s imagination(s)?  Didn't someone help cultivate yours?  I have an excellent imagination but I save it for my fiction writing, which is very well received by young & old. 

Because I, (and others), really don't see this.

Are you guys discussing me behind closed doors?  Gosh, that makes me feel special!

Really, don't flatter yourself. What may be discussed or remarked about you, is out here for all to see. Of course, I can only speak for myself as I don't PM anyone on CM's from any group. 

What did happen is that both families came on stage, everyone stood around for a few moments, introductions were make, everyone is smiling & hugging and exchanging pleasantries. Then when they are leaving Romney does go back & pick up his stuff, and while folding paper & starting to put it in one pocket, but deciding on the other, he's shaking hands with Jim Lehrer.

I don't know why he didn't just pick up the papers if he didn't want to leave them.  Why the carefully, deliberate folding?

Everyone is smiling, has been the whole time, nothing is handed to any of Romney's son's. And what reporter are you talking about? And where do you get that Romney is a loose cannon?  


Here's the video of Romney getting in a reporter's face.  His handler tries to move on to the next question but just like during the debate, Romney doesn't take the cue from his campaign manager.

I just now watched it again for the first time in a while.  I forgot that the guy in the glasses took the AP reporter to task for having the gall to challenge Romney's statement.  The reporter is right; Romney came at him.  The reporter thought Romney was gone but Romney bushwhacked him! 

It's really scary how Romney acted, even with a video camera present!  He has a bad temper and NO self-control at times and that's not good.  He's not used to people challenging what he says.  Everyone toadies around him and waits on the word from their lord and master. And you know this how?

Oh, give me a break. If you call this scary & out of control, I wonder just how often you are out in the real world. I don't think the reporter was afraid either. Believe me, if that was me and someone was insisting that I was lying, there would have been a BIG scene. No one I know likes being called a liar. And, reporters are known to be agressive A**h***s who don't know when to quit. Seriously, "Bad Temper"? Bad temper is what I lived with for 10 years which makes Romney look like a lamb. 

Okay; your wait is over.  Sorry, I didn't follow the rules very well either. As you've noticed, I didn't wait for your OK to comment. Oh well, too late now.  Here's another JonJon production.  I just now used the zoom to see that your name is spelled with an L.  That's a bit of a tongue twister.  I mispronounced your name in the video. No problem about my name or the mix-up between Obama's & Romney's name. I'm not offended and seriously doubt others would be either, however, I can't speak for anyone else.  Also, I referred to Romney as Obama in the video.  I know that will offend you guys but I let the mistake go.  I really stopped trying to be perfect a long time ago:




I hope you are not dissapointed but I am not aggravated or upset, nor do I loose any sleep over this any thing you write. It seems as if you are pleased with the idea that I am, so if you want to think I am, be my guest. Actually I prefer that people come right out with what they think & feel than tip-toeing around it. If & when I do say "wrong", I'm actually meaning, but don't always say, wrong from my point of view or opinion. But I'm always open to hearing another side as perhaps I didn't think of it that way. Has happened before, will happen again. I just don't think some differences are enough to end friendships over and always think its a shame. But anyway, that last bit is off-topic but is one of my idiosyncrasies. We all have those. OK, I have errands & chores to do. So TTFN.

P.S. Please note that I do apologize when I'm wrong, which does happen, and I appreciate it when others do as well. Therefore, I was impressed when you acknowledged your error in saying you'd never seen Romney sweat. That carries a lot of weight in my book. Also, it pleases me that I am a source of ammusement for you, seriously. I like the attention, actors usually do & even though I don't act any longer, both my DH & I still "act up", as we are fond of saying. OT again, We met on stage 20 years ago and now have our own Improv show.

I like performers and I adore improv.  You have to be quick-witted.  Thanks for the civility.  It's a refreshing change from what I've experienced since inadvertently wandering into this group.

As I like to say, perspective is everything.  I don't like menacing people and Romney menaced that reporter who was on the floor as Romney loomed over him spewing smoke from his ears.  Can't see smoke spewing from his ears, but yes, I'd be plenty upset if some kept repeating the same question I'd just answered several times. And I don't see Romney, nor Obama for that matter, hitting anyone, reporter or not. From your perspective, not liking Romney in the least, that is the way you will see things. It's the way it works in all of us. I don't believe the reporter was afraid, either; he was surrounded by people and cameras.  He was probably hearing a cash register in his head as he imagined suing Romney for hitting him!

Here's another perspective:  If Barack Obama had acted that same way in that exact situation, it would be all over the anti-Obama sites, and this group as Obama being out-of-control and should be impeached.  You can't deny that.

I'm sure many would act that way, but not as many as you might think. Come to think of it, I think this is the only place I've seen it mentioned. 


Lacey14
by Bronze Member on Oct. 10, 2012 at 5:06 AM

JonJon, this last video you created is just total nonsense.  You must live in an alternative world than the rest of us.  You have nitpicked about the most ridiculous things that you supposed Romney has done.  

1 .Wow...he took about 5 seconds more to move away from his podium than Obama.  So?  

2. Jim Lehrer was standing behind Michelle when they approached Obama, so naturally Obama shook his hand first.  

3. Having a large family is a good thing if people can afford to raise them.

4. Romney's son is not disgusted with his father.  You know it is one thing to have opinions, but when you go to the trouble to create videos and then narrate them with your ramblings, and them publish them online, you really shouldn't lie.  You are just making up sh*t as you go along, and they are just lies.

5. Lehrer purposely waited on the lower steps until Romney was finished with his family.  I noticed that you almost mentioned, the fact that Romney stopped Lehrer from falling down the steps.  But, then you realized that was a good thing, so you skimmed over it.  Nobody slighted anybody.

6. You really need to stop because you are making yourself look and sound very foolish.  But, on the other hand, these videos are good for a laugh.  Even though it's at your expense.

Quoting JonJon:


Quoting Xlandria:

My replies are embedded in green.

Quoting JonJon:


Quoting Xlandria:


Quoting JonJon:

LOL!  You ever hear of a little thing called projecting?

One time, in reply to someone else saying Romney's sweating could be due to heart problems, I said I wouldn't vote for someone with health problems and you call that obsessed?  Heh.  You must be getting paid to defend Romney! 

This is a site where people tallk.  This is a site where posts have gotten hundres and in some cases thousands of replies because people wanted to discuss them that much.  You have to get used to that if you're new and you must be new if you don't know that.  I'll be talking Hankygate until I get bored with it. 

I'm not bored with it.

In fact, I saw video where a guy says Romney stuck the notes up his sleeve after the debate and another video where they note how Romney went back to the podium to retrieve his notes and then passed them off to his son. He treats his sons as if they are his men servants and you see how the kids all protectively surround their dad because they knows he's that volatile.  I'm wondering if he has any advisors of if he's fired them.  I don't see the guy who stepped between Romney and the reporter who's head he looked as if he wanted to remove.  He's probably gotten fed up with having to deal with such a loose cannon but I'll look again to see if he's there somewhere. 

The President immediately walked around the podium to shake hands while Romney fumbled at his podium. Wrong, Romney walked directly out from behind the podium as well. His son NEVER too possession of anything.   

Wait.

The President left the stage and never looked back at his notes but Romney made sure to retrieve his notes.  His son takes them with a grim expression B.S. 

Wait.

on his face rather than the expression of a kid who was ecstatic his dad performed so well!  I think that's the one son who doesn't approve of his dad's sneaky tricks and his dad rubbed it in his face.

Apparently you do have a very active imagination.

I've already acknowledged I have a good imagination.  I suppose and guess and theorize and hypothesize all the time.  Doing so makes life interesting.  Don't you cultivate your child(ren)'s imagination(s)?  Didn't someone help cultivate yours?

Because I, (and others), really don't see this.

Are you guys discussing me behind closed doors?  Gosh, that makes me feel special!

What did happen is that both families came on stage, everyone stood around for a few moments, introductions were make, everyone is smiling & hugging and exchanging pleasantries. Then when they are leaving Romney does go back & pick up his stuff, and while folding paper & starting to put it in one pocket, but deciding on the other, he's shaking hands with Jim Lehrer.

I don't know why he didn't just pick up the papers if he didn't want to leave them.  Why the carefully, deliberate folding?

Everyone is smiling, has been the whole time, nothing is handed to any of Romney's son's. And what reporter are you talking about? And where do you get that Romney is a loose cannon?  


Here's the video of Romney getting in a reporter's face.  His handler tries to move on to the next question but just like during the debate, Romney doesn't take the cue from his campaign manager.

I just now watched it again for the first time in a while.  I forgot that the guy in the glasses took the AP reporter to task for having the gall to challenge Romney's statement.  The reporter is right; Romney came at him.  The reporter thought Romney was gone but Romney bushwhacked him! 

It's really scary how Romney acted, even with a video camera present!  He has a bad temper and NO self-control at times and that's not good.  He's not used to people challenging what he says.  Everyone toadies around him and waits on the word from their lord and master.

Okay; your wait is over.  Here's another JonJon production.  I just now used the zoom to see that your name is spelled with an L.  That's a bit of a tongue twister.  I mispronounced your name in the video.  Also, I referred to Romney as Obama in the video.  I know that will offend you guys but I let the mistake go.  I really stopped trying to be perfect a long time ago:





JonJon
by on Oct. 10, 2012 at 6:22 AM

You're right; I tried to give at least one Romney credit for having scruples and ethics but that look on sonny boy's face was one of duplicity, not the sign of a conscience.

The whole family closed ranks to block Romney from the cameras in an act of duplicity, imo.  The one horse-faced daughter-in-law with the long, lanky hair has a strange look on her face the whole time; one of discomfort or fear...I don't know.  What it is they wanted to hide we will never know.  I think Romney is physically weak and it's ironic his wife with MS herself is the one who always leads him off-stage.  The way she clasps her hands to give herself strength as he holds onto her is a sign he's leaning on her for support.  Nancy Reagan did the same thing for Ronald.

Jim Lehrer didn't almost fall down the stairs.  Once Romney finally decided Lehrer was worthy of his attention he wouldn't let him go until he was ready.  See, Jim shook his hand and turned to leave but the King hadn't dismissed him so Romney pulled him back, made another comment and once having gotten in the last word, THEN dismissed Jim. 

I suspect Romney doesn't like Jim Lehrer and didn't like Jim's trying to keep him in line and that his family saw that because as you and Xlandria have said, Mormon families are so very close they know when dad is about to explode (again) so they closed ranks around him as long as they could to keep him from going off on Jim the way he went off on that reporter in Walmart or K-Mart or wherever that was.  He went off on that reporter despite taking note of the camera aimed at him because he has to has the last word and because he figured only a few unimportant people in a little rinky-dink town would see the video but he was on big-time tv for the debate and needed to put forth a good image.

Romney is very self-important and he's important to his minions otherwise known as his family.  The son who took his notes led the way offstage with a very smug, self-congratulatory smile on his face.

All you and I have demonstrated is how two people can look at the same thing and arrive at different conclusions.  I've looked at that tape many times and I've never once perceived Jim Lehrer as in danger of falling down the stairs.  You wanted to make Romney a hero!  Hah!  LOL!

I'm glad you liked my little films.  There will be more.  Keep watch for them.  I might stop writing altogether and just record my comments. 

I've embedded comments in green.

Quoting Lacey14:

JonJon, this last video you created is just total nonsense.  You must live in an alternative world than the rest of us.  You have nitpicked about the most ridiculous things that you supposed Romney has done.  

1 .Wow...he took about 5 seconds more to move away from his podium than Obama.  So?  

So what was he doing?  Concealing the notes he tranferred from his hanky among the paper the debate committee provided.  He certainly wasn't writing a note to remind himself to acknowledge Jim Lehrer in a respectful and timely manner!  There was a bit of urgency in the movement of his hands.

2. Jim Lehrer was standing behind Michelle when they approached Obama, so naturally Obama shook his hand first.  

Naturally, he'd shake the President's hand first.  Romney knew that but he could have stood there and waited his turn.  It's not as if he hadn't seen his family for days.

3. Having a large family is a good thing if people can afford to raise them.

You must be a lot younger than I and don't remember a thing called zero population growth.  There was a movement to slow down population growth so we human beings wouldn't multiply so fast as to overwhelm Mother Earth and deplete her resources faster than she can replenish them so no, big families are not good things.  Thank goodness they finally decided to stop at five and give up on having a wee girl for Ann to dress up in cute clothes and hair ribbons.

4. Romney's son is not disgusted with his father.  You know it is one thing to have opinions, but when you go to the trouble to create videos and then narrate them with your ramblings, and them publish them online, you really shouldn't lie.  You are just making up sh*t as you go along, and they are just lies.

I merely gave my impressions of what I saw.  Hopefully, most people understand the concept.  Here's a cool idea; you narrate the same segment of the video and give YOUR version of what happened!  I'll pop corn and watch it!

5. Lehrer purposely waited on the lower steps until Romney was finished with his family.  I noticed that you almost mentioned, the fact that Romney stopped Lehrer from falling down the steps.  But, then you realized that was a good thing, so you skimmed over it.  Nobody slighted anybody.

Lehrer was forced to wait on the steps because the family kept him there with their backs.  Look at their feet; right on the very edge of the stage to keep him and anyone else who had any bright ideas of talking to the boss, from doing so until he gave them the indication he was ready to hold court.  They made a little gate after Big Daddy retrieved his illicit notes.

Jim Lehrer was never in any danger of falling down the stairs.  The man has been going up to meet Presidential candidates for 13 years and is quite adept at navigating his way onto a stage when no one's blocking his way! 

If you're talking about when Romney pointed to Jim's feet, I'm guessing he liked Jim's shoes.

6. You really need to stop because you are making yourself look and sound very foolish.  But, on the other hand, these videos are good for a laugh.  Even though it's at your expense.

People who are afraid to look foolish are fakey and miss out on doing a lot of fun things. I had fun with the videos.

You laugh and happily do so, because it's at my expense.  I accept that.  I accept there are all kinds of people in the world and it takes all kinds to make a world.  I welcome you to enjoy yourself, even at my expense.

wink






          

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