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Does anyone have info on these issues?

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If in anyone is willing to take the time to help me out. I am finding the presidential elections very confusing. One says one thing and the other says something different. I have looked at their websites, but hardly any facts are given. I need some help with facts.

1. China. Obama says the Republicans and Romney support tax cuts for companies that send business overseas and that he supports tax cuts for businesses who will bring their jobs back here
Romney says he wants to bring business back to the US as well.
Are they both on the same page? Does one have a history of supporting outsourcing and one have a history of trying to get jobs back? These things are hard to find when you don't have the best research skills.

2. Energy. Romney's plan is to use more of America's natural resources and in doing this he will create more jobs here and cut spending by getting oil from overseas. This sounds great, but how will this impact our environment? I like the idea of solar and wind and things like that, I do worry about what drilling and all of that will do to the environment. What are your thoughts on this?

3. Taxes. I am not a numbers person. I don't understand tax plans, all I can go on is what they say and they are both promising a tax plan that will help the middle class.

 

by on Oct. 12, 2012 at 8:23 AM
Replies (71-80):
Carpy
by Platinum Member on Oct. 14, 2012 at 4:32 PM
When someone references tax cuts not being paid for, their credibility just went down the toilet.
Quoting maddyistheone:



Quoting pvtjokerus:


Who has controlled the majority since 2006?


Are we going to erase history and leave out 2001 through 2005 when we had two unpaid for tax cuts, the start of two wars that where off the books and an unfunded Medicare D plan?  From 2006 we had unenforced Wall Street and banking manipulations up though the end of 2008 and I believe Bush was in control and we do know that it is the executive branch that does our enforcement.  And the melt down this caused and lost of jobs was so big that even the best of economist did not predict its severity.  Now since 2009 we stopped the freefall and began to turn things around ever so slowly thanks the the interference of those who not only caused the problem but want to take back control to insure that the corporations remain in control doing their way.  And the continued weakiing of the middle class (the American workers) to help prevent another Obama type (Democrat) take over of the White House that would help give us back the standard of living and world leadership we once had..  We need to continue to dig ourselves out of the hole our Republican friends put us in and to many people are in to big a hurry to understand it takes time to right a sinking ship.  I want to contiue moving forward and not go backwords and continue to wait for the triclkle down you think is just around the corner.  The job creators have had their tax cuts now for 12 years, where are the jobs?  Oh, they need more you say?  I hope that answered you question.


 


Quoting maddyistheone:



Common sense will tell you the reason both Romney and Ryan will not even tell you one loophole or tax deduction they will reform (eliminate) to pay for the 20% across the board tax cut should tell you that they DO NOT want you to know because you will not like it.  And remember across the board means the cuts to the middle class will be significantly less than those of the rich and because the income gap is so wide the offset to those dollars is going to be paid for by who?  Not the poor, and certainly not the rich who make most of their income of investments rather than labor and those (capital gains) dollars are also excluded along with dividends and the death tax and you cannot comprehend that basic mathematics means they will be paid for by the middle class.  And you have already been told that the financial wizards have already calculated that means middle class actual taxes will go up by thousands of dollars.   


Those arguing that their paycheck will be bigger are quite short sighted that at tax time they will be shelling out money that had better been saving for.  Or you can put it on the credit card and really start putting yourself in the hole the Republican Party has been digging for the middle class for years.  They have been putting you and our government into debt for years and now telling you it has to stop with more cuts to those who do not need them.  An honest person would tell you exactly how it the cuts will be paid for and only the dishonest need to keep it a secret.  These same people tell you the want to save Medicare for you when in fact they did not like it from the beginning and have for years tried to make it disappear and privatize it.  You and other on the right say its socialized medicine and government controlled which makes it bad for the American people and also say you want to save it.  Those are contradictory statement  I guess you also think the health insurance business and the pharmaceuticals  have your best interest in mind and have such a great job on keep out cost down and service high and we do not have a major problem with the system we have had for our under 65 people.  Do you know the definition of the word gullible?  That is who the right has been counting on and yes,  it works sorry to say.  Think about the simple truth of human behavior.


 



Posted on CafeMom Mobile
mommom2000
by Bronze Member on Oct. 14, 2012 at 5:39 PM

 

Quoting 143myboys9496:

 

Quoting mommom2000:

 

Quoting 143myboys9496:

 

Quoting mommom2000:

 

Quoting 143myboys9496:

 

Quoting mommom2000:

 


Quoting Billiejeens:


 


Quoting mommom2000:


 


Quoting 143myboys9496:


 



 



I couldn't copy and past the table. I personally, on my W2 "claim 0, married but withhold at the single higher rate"..becase back 18 years ago, when I claimed 1 when I had my first son, we ended up having to pay the gov't $3000. Because my dh also, claimed 1. Only one of us can claim our sons, so my dh does it, because he earns less. According to the table under the Romney plan my taxes will go down any where from 6.6% to 7%. Under the Romney plan, there'll be changes to my deductions as well. But I'll have more in my paycheck every week, and that's what pays my bills.

Yes Romney plans to make a 20% cut across the board.  Yes while it might mean you have a little more in your pocket.  It also means the rich people will have hundred of thousands more in their pocket. And to pay for the riches tax cut they will have to get rid of deductions you take advantage of. The CBO estimates your family will end up paying 2,000 more a year.  Romney says that won't happen, but offers no explanation why.  To pay for the giant giveaway to the rich and not add to the deficit the experts agree it will hit the middle class, so you will have to pay for the wealthy tax giveaway in the end.



Do you really believe this nonsense, or are you just an activist pushing this ridiculous position?


Both of your quotes are telling me I'm wrong, without any reasoning behind saying that.  What I have stated about taxes is exactly what the experts who looked at his plan say will have to happen, it it's not to add to the deficit as promised.  Do you have an explanation, explaining otherwise?  I know you didn't get your explanation from Romney because he has yet to even mention one deduction he would end.  You can call it ridiculous if you like, but you should also explain what part is ridiculous.  The part about Solyndra that I posted is a timeline of how the events happened, which part do you disagree with. When you ell people they are wrong, you should explain yourself.

 

 Please explain to me HOW if my tax rate is reduced by 6-7% and I have as much as $300 per week MORE in my pocket, I'm going to end up paying $2000 extra per year?

Where does that figure come from, because honestly, I can't find the validation for it.

I'm not really sure how you come up with your math if you think you are going to save 300 more a week that would mean you make 4,500 a week, almost 250,000 a year.  Your probably screwing up your math.  If they take less income tax out of your check each week you will have a little more in your pocket, but at the end of the year when you file your taxes, and the credits that you normally take are gone you will owe more money at the end of the year, this is where you will loose your money

 He's not eliminating the deductions his plan is to reduce them. What I need is more in my weekly paycheck to pay my bills, not a bigger tax return in April. And that $300 I quoted above is combined with my and my dh, sorry about that. Unfortunately I don't have good math, my dh can figure out percentages over time, in his head. I don't know anyone other than him who can do that. When we talked about the Romney plan he mentioned an extra $300 a week, that was combined..my bad.

I can't claim anything not even married on my W2, my dh claims 1, because he earns less than I do.

I just really cannot afford another 4 years of Obama. At the rate he's going, I WILL loose my house.

You need more money in your paycheck, what this will do is rob Peter to pay Paul.  This could even mean you will owe taxes at the end of the year, do you have that money?  The reason the non partisan committee suggest it will raise your taxes by 2,000 a year is because Romney promises that his 5 trillion dollar tax cut will not add to the deficit.  To accomplish this he is saying he will get rid of loopholes and deductions. The experts agree that mathematically this isn't possible unless you also stop deductions that middle class take advantage of.  He says he won't touch middle class but has yet to list one deduction he will get rid of, this means one of two things the reason he won't tell is because you won't like it, or the reason he won't tell because it's impossible.  Either way Romney's plan does one of two things, it doesn't add to the deficit and your taxes go up by 2,000 or it adds to the deficit.  Like Clinton says it's simple math.    Loosing 2,000 dollars for your family is losing it, no matter if it's right away or later.

 You realize that Obama's plan only works if 3"IF's" fall into place. Then that $2200 Obama is saying he'll save the middle class is cut down to $1200 which gets negated if his 3rd "if" doesn't pass. I can't find the link where I read it, I'll keep looking. Below is a quote, the website for the full article is below it:

 

President Obama kept pointing out Monday that he has cut taxes. But he doesn't understand that the way that he cut taxes actually discouraged work for one simple reason: he increased marginal tax rates. Obama's tax cuts increase marginal tax rates because he phases out deductions and credits as people make more income. You get the earned income tax credit or the college tuition credit but as you earn more money more of those credits are taken away from you. Those lost tax benefits are on top of the unchanged official marginal tax brackets. Average tax rates went down, but marginal tax rates went up.

The president said he wants “an economy where work pays off.” But if you actually want to give me an incentive to work more it is the marginal tax rate that matters. The solution is obvious: let people keep more of each additional dollar they earn.



Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/07/09/truth-about-obama-tax-cut-extension-plan/#ixzz29I7WOu8N

The two websites you provided me are both opinion blogs, this is any random person stating any random thing, this isn't the king of thing you should read to get your news/.  The last persons ramblings state something about let me keep my more of my money, I'm sorry but taxes are a reality that'swhat built this great country of ours.  Be patriotic and pay your taxes. Bush cut taxes and look hoew much it stimulated our economy.  These are just opinions.

mommom2000
by Bronze Member on Oct. 14, 2012 at 5:54 PM

This saying is the one of the funniest talking points of all of them.  It's common sense, where do you think the government receives revenue to run this country?  If they are taking in X amount of dollars and then you cut the same X amount of dollars then that is lost revenue.  The money has to come from somewhere.  That's like saying I don't have a job and I am in debt, the only problem I have is a spending problem, not a revenue problem.  That person still needs to live, the need an income not just to curb there spending
Again simple math spending and taxes is the budget.  You can't just cut taxes, and think the money will just fall out of the sky.  Please explain why you keep using this same talking point over and over?

Quoting Carpy:

When someone references tax cuts not being paid for, their credibility just went down the toilet.
Quoting maddyistheone:

 


Quoting pvtjokerus:


Who has controlled the majority since 2006?


Are we going to erase history and leave out 2001 through 2005 when we had two unpaid for tax cuts, the start of two wars that where off the books and an unfunded Medicare D plan?  From 2006 we had unenforced Wall Street and banking manipulations up though the end of 2008 and I believe Bush was in control and we do know that it is the executive branch that does our enforcement.  And the melt down this caused and lost of jobs was so big that even the best of economist did not predict its severity.  Now since 2009 we stopped the freefall and began to turn things around ever so slowly thanks the the interference of those who not only caused the problem but want to take back control to insure that the corporations remain in control doing their way.  And the continued weakiing of the middle class (the American workers) to help prevent another Obama type (Democrat) take over of the White House that would help give us back the standard of living and world leadership we once had..  We need to continue to dig ourselves out of the hole our Republican friends put us in and to many people are in to big a hurry to understand it takes time to right a sinking ship.  I want to contiue moving forward and not go backwords and continue to wait for the triclkle down you think is just around the corner.  The job creators have had their tax cuts now for 12 years, where are the jobs?  Oh, they need more you say?  I hope that answered you question.


 


Quoting maddyistheone:



Common sense will tell you the reason both Romney and Ryan will not even tell you one loophole or tax deduction they will reform (eliminate) to pay for the 20% across the board tax cut should tell you that they DO NOT want you to know because you will not like it.  And remember across the board means the cuts to the middle class will be significantly less than those of the rich and because the income gap is so wide the offset to those dollars is going to be paid for by who?  Not the poor, and certainly not the rich who make most of their income of investments rather than labor and those (capital gains) dollars are also excluded along with dividends and the death tax and you cannot comprehend that basic mathematics means they will be paid for by the middle class.  And you have already been told that the financial wizards have already calculated that means middle class actual taxes will go up by thousands of dollars.   


Those arguing that their paycheck will be bigger are quite short sighted that at tax time they will be shelling out money that had better been saving for.  Or you can put it on the credit card and really start putting yourself in the hole the Republican Party has been digging for the middle class for years.  They have been putting you and our government into debt for years and now telling you it has to stop with more cuts to those who do not need them.  An honest person would tell you exactly how it the cuts will be paid for and only the dishonest need to keep it a secret.  These same people tell you the want to save Medicare for you when in fact they did not like it from the beginning and have for years tried to make it disappear and privatize it.  You and other on the right say its socialized medicine and government controlled which makes it bad for the American people and also say you want to save it.  Those are contradictory statement  I guess you also think the health insurance business and the pharmaceuticals  have your best interest in mind and have such a great job on keep out cost down and service high and we do not have a major problem with the system we have had for our under 65 people.  Do you know the definition of the word gullible?  That is who the right has been counting on and yes,  it works sorry to say.  Think about the simple truth of human behavior.


 


 


Carpy
by Platinum Member on Oct. 14, 2012 at 6:16 PM

Only for you socialists who believe that hard earned money belongs to the government.  Ever hear of cutting wasteful spending?

Quoting mommom2000:

This saying is the one of the funniest talking points of all of them.  It's common sense, where do you think the government receives revenue to run this country?  If they are taking in X amount of dollars and then you cut the same X amount of dollars then that is lost revenue.  The money has to come from somewhere.  That's like saying I don't have a job and I am in debt, the only problem I have is a spending problem, not a revenue problem.  That person still needs to live, the need an income not just to curb there spending
Again simple math spending and taxes is the budget.  You can't just cut taxes, and think the money will just fall out of the sky.  Please explain why you keep using this same talking point over and over?

Quoting Carpy:

When someone references tax cuts not being paid for, their credibility just went down the toilet.
Quoting maddyistheone:



Quoting pvtjokerus:


Who has controlled the majority since 2006?


Are we going to erase history and leave out 2001 through 2005 when we had two unpaid for tax cuts, the start of two wars that where off the books and an unfunded Medicare D plan?  From 2006 we had unenforced Wall Street and banking manipulations up though the end of 2008 and I believe Bush was in control and we do know that it is the executive branch that does our enforcement.  And the melt down this caused and lost of jobs was so big that even the best of economist did not predict its severity.  Now since 2009 we stopped the freefall and began to turn things around ever so slowly thanks the the interference of those who not only caused the problem but want to take back control to insure that the corporations remain in control doing their way.  And the continued weakiing of the middle class (the American workers) to help prevent another Obama type (Democrat) take over of the White House that would help give us back the standard of living and world leadership we once had..  We need to continue to dig ourselves out of the hole our Republican friends put us in and to many people are in to big a hurry to understand it takes time to right a sinking ship.  I want to contiue moving forward and not go backwords and continue to wait for the triclkle down you think is just around the corner.  The job creators have had their tax cuts now for 12 years, where are the jobs?  Oh, they need more you say?  I hope that answered you question.


 


Quoting maddyistheone:



Common sense will tell you the reason both Romney and Ryan will not even tell you one loophole or tax deduction they will reform (eliminate) to pay for the 20% across the board tax cut should tell you that they DO NOT want you to know because you will not like it.  And remember across the board means the cuts to the middle class will be significantly less than those of the rich and because the income gap is so wide the offset to those dollars is going to be paid for by who?  Not the poor, and certainly not the rich who make most of their income of investments rather than labor and those (capital gains) dollars are also excluded along with dividends and the death tax and you cannot comprehend that basic mathematics means they will be paid for by the middle class.  And you have already been told that the financial wizards have already calculated that means middle class actual taxes will go up by thousands of dollars.   


Those arguing that their paycheck will be bigger are quite short sighted that at tax time they will be shelling out money that had better been saving for.  Or you can put it on the credit card and really start putting yourself in the hole the Republican Party has been digging for the middle class for years.  They have been putting you and our government into debt for years and now telling you it has to stop with more cuts to those who do not need them.  An honest person would tell you exactly how it the cuts will be paid for and only the dishonest need to keep it a secret.  These same people tell you the want to save Medicare for you when in fact they did not like it from the beginning and have for years tried to make it disappear and privatize it.  You and other on the right say its socialized medicine and government controlled which makes it bad for the American people and also say you want to save it.  Those are contradictory statement  I guess you also think the health insurance business and the pharmaceuticals  have your best interest in mind and have such a great job on keep out cost down and service high and we do not have a major problem with the system we have had for our under 65 people.  Do you know the definition of the word gullible?  That is who the right has been counting on and yes,  it works sorry to say.  Think about the simple truth of human behavior.







maddyistheone
by Member on Oct. 14, 2012 at 6:31 PM


Quoting Carpy:



When someone references tax cuts not being paid for, their

credibility just went down the toilet.

I believe Romney uses such words when he says his 20% across the board is paid for with changes in the the tax deductions and credits so that his cuts will not add to the deficit but I do agree with you about his credibility. 

When income is cut the deficit increases dollar for dollar just like when spending is increased.  If you do not want the deficit to change on spending then it has to be paid for with the same kind of dollars that cutting income (cutting taxes) need to be paid for or are we playing the word game "paid for" only applies to the spending half of the equation but not the income half? 

Clue me in on what chose of words I should have made for "paid for" on the income side?  You like "offsetby cutting spending" instead?  Bush did not cut spending to match his tax cuts and did not increase taxes to pay for his wars.   Is that more credible to you? 

 

Quoting maddyistheone:

 


Quoting pvtjokerus:


Who has controlled the majority since 2006?


Are we going to erase history and leave out 2001 through 2005 when we had two unpaid for tax cuts, the start of two wars that where off the books and an unfunded Medicare D plan?  From 2006 we had unenforced Wall Street and banking manipulations up though the end of 2008 and I believe Bush was in control and we do know that it is the executive branch that does our enforcement.  And the melt down this caused and lost of jobs was so big that even the best of economist did not predict its severity.  Now since 2009 we stopped the freefall and began to turn things around ever so slowly thanks the the interference of those who not only caused the problem but want to take back control to insure that the corporations remain in control doing their way.  And the continued weakiing of the middle class (the American workers) to help prevent another Obama type (Democrat) take over of the White House that would help give us back the standard of living and world leadership we once had..  We need to continue to dig ourselves out of the hole our Republican friends put us in and to many people are in to big a hurry to understand it takes time to right a sinking ship.  I want to contiue moving forward and not go backwords and continue to wait for the triclkle down you think is just around the corner.  The job creators have had their tax cuts now for 12 years, where are the jobs?  Oh, they need more you say?  I hope that answered you question.


 


Quoting maddyistheone:



Common sense will tell you the reason both Romney and Ryan will not even tell you one loophole or tax deduction they will reform (eliminate) to pay for the 20% across the board tax cut should tell you that they DO NOT want you to know because you will not like it.  And remember across the board means the cuts to the middle class will be significantly less than those of the rich and because the income gap is so wide the offset to those dollars is going to be paid for by who?  Not the poor, and certainly not the rich who make most of their income of investments rather than labor and those (capital gains) dollars are also excluded along with dividends and the death tax and you cannot comprehend that basic mathematics means they will be paid for by the middle class.  And you have already been told that the financial wizards have already calculated that means middle class actual taxes will go up by thousands of dollars.   


Those arguing that their paycheck will be bigger are quite short sighted that at tax time they will be shelling out money that had better been saving for.  Or you can put it on the credit card and really start putting yourself in the hole the Republican Party has been digging for the middle class for years.  They have been putting you and our government into debt for years and now telling you it has to stop with more cuts to those who do not need them.  An honest person would tell you exactly how it the cuts will be paid for and only the dishonest need to keep it a secret.  These same people tell you the want to save Medicare for you when in fact they did not like it from the beginning and have for years tried to make it disappear and privatize it.  You and other on the right say its socialized medicine and government controlled which makes it bad for the American people and also say you want to save it.  Those are contradictory statement  I guess you also think the health insurance business and the pharmaceuticals  have your best interest in mind and have such a great job on keep out cost down and service high and we do not have a major problem with the system we have had for our under 65 people.  Do you know the definition of the word gullible?  That is who the right has been counting on and yes,  it works sorry to say.  Think about the simple truth of human behavior.


 


 


Carpy
by Platinum Member on Oct. 14, 2012 at 7:23 PM

I was not referencing his credibility, but I do not like that statement from him, either.  At least he is refering to cuts.  Assuming that allowing tax payers to keep more of their money must be "paid for" is saying that your income belongs to the government and they allow you to have a portion of it.

Quoting maddyistheone:


Quoting Carpy:



When someone references tax cuts not being paid for, their

credibility just went down the toilet.

I believe Romney uses such words when he says his 20% across the board is paid for with changes in the the tax deductions and credits so that his cuts will not add to the deficit but I do agree with you about his credibility. 

When income is cut the deficit increases dollar for dollar just like when spending is increased.  If you do not want the deficit to change on spending then it has to be paid for with the same kind of dollars that cutting income (cutting taxes) need to be paid for or are we playing the word game "paid for" only applies to the spending half of the equation but not the income half? 

Clue me in on what chose of words I should have made for "paid for" on the income side?  You like "offsetby cutting spending" instead?  Bush did not cut spending to match his tax cuts and did not increase taxes to pay for his wars.   Is that more credible to you? 


Quoting maddyistheone:



Quoting pvtjokerus:


Who has controlled the majority since 2006?


Are we going to erase history and leave out 2001 through 2005 when we had two unpaid for tax cuts, the start of two wars that where off the books and an unfunded Medicare D plan?  From 2006 we had unenforced Wall Street and banking manipulations up though the end of 2008 and I believe Bush was in control and we do know that it is the executive branch that does our enforcement.  And the melt down this caused and lost of jobs was so big that even the best of economist did not predict its severity.  Now since 2009 we stopped the freefall and began to turn things around ever so slowly thanks the the interference of those who not only caused the problem but want to take back control to insure that the corporations remain in control doing their way.  And the continued weakiing of the middle class (the American workers) to help prevent another Obama type (Democrat) take over of the White House that would help give us back the standard of living and world leadership we once had..  We need to continue to dig ourselves out of the hole our Republican friends put us in and to many people are in to big a hurry to understand it takes time to right a sinking ship.  I want to contiue moving forward and not go backwords and continue to wait for the triclkle down you think is just around the corner.  The job creators have had their tax cuts now for 12 years, where are the jobs?  Oh, they need more you say?  I hope that answered you question.


 


Quoting maddyistheone:



Common sense will tell you the reason both Romney and Ryan will not even tell you one loophole or tax deduction they will reform (eliminate) to pay for the 20% across the board tax cut should tell you that they DO NOT want you to know because you will not like it.  And remember across the board means the cuts to the middle class will be significantly less than those of the rich and because the income gap is so wide the offset to those dollars is going to be paid for by who?  Not the poor, and certainly not the rich who make most of their income of investments rather than labor and those (capital gains) dollars are also excluded along with dividends and the death tax and you cannot comprehend that basic mathematics means they will be paid for by the middle class.  And you have already been told that the financial wizards have already calculated that means middle class actual taxes will go up by thousands of dollars.   


Those arguing that their paycheck will be bigger are quite short sighted that at tax time they will be shelling out money that had better been saving for.  Or you can put it on the credit card and really start putting yourself in the hole the Republican Party has been digging for the middle class for years.  They have been putting you and our government into debt for years and now telling you it has to stop with more cuts to those who do not need them.  An honest person would tell you exactly how it the cuts will be paid for and only the dishonest need to keep it a secret.  These same people tell you the want to save Medicare for you when in fact they did not like it from the beginning and have for years tried to make it disappear and privatize it.  You and other on the right say its socialized medicine and government controlled which makes it bad for the American people and also say you want to save it.  Those are contradictory statement  I guess you also think the health insurance business and the pharmaceuticals  have your best interest in mind and have such a great job on keep out cost down and service high and we do not have a major problem with the system we have had for our under 65 people.  Do you know the definition of the word gullible?  That is who the right has been counting on and yes,  it works sorry to say.  Think about the simple truth of human behavior.







Carpy
by Platinum Member on Oct. 14, 2012 at 7:24 PM

Also, I have hammered on Bush and his spending.  But not on the wars. 

Quoting maddyistheone:


Quoting Carpy:



When someone references tax cuts not being paid for, their

credibility just went down the toilet.

I believe Romney uses such words when he says his 20% across the board is paid for with changes in the the tax deductions and credits so that his cuts will not add to the deficit but I do agree with you about his credibility. 

When income is cut the deficit increases dollar for dollar just like when spending is increased.  If you do not want the deficit to change on spending then it has to be paid for with the same kind of dollars that cutting income (cutting taxes) need to be paid for or are we playing the word game "paid for" only applies to the spending half of the equation but not the income half? 

Clue me in on what chose of words I should have made for "paid for" on the income side?  You like "offsetby cutting spending" instead?  Bush did not cut spending to match his tax cuts and did not increase taxes to pay for his wars.   Is that more credible to you? 


Quoting maddyistheone:



Quoting pvtjokerus:


Who has controlled the majority since 2006?


Are we going to erase history and leave out 2001 through 2005 when we had two unpaid for tax cuts, the start of two wars that where off the books and an unfunded Medicare D plan?  From 2006 we had unenforced Wall Street and banking manipulations up though the end of 2008 and I believe Bush was in control and we do know that it is the executive branch that does our enforcement.  And the melt down this caused and lost of jobs was so big that even the best of economist did not predict its severity.  Now since 2009 we stopped the freefall and began to turn things around ever so slowly thanks the the interference of those who not only caused the problem but want to take back control to insure that the corporations remain in control doing their way.  And the continued weakiing of the middle class (the American workers) to help prevent another Obama type (Democrat) take over of the White House that would help give us back the standard of living and world leadership we once had..  We need to continue to dig ourselves out of the hole our Republican friends put us in and to many people are in to big a hurry to understand it takes time to right a sinking ship.  I want to contiue moving forward and not go backwords and continue to wait for the triclkle down you think is just around the corner.  The job creators have had their tax cuts now for 12 years, where are the jobs?  Oh, they need more you say?  I hope that answered you question.


 


Quoting maddyistheone:



Common sense will tell you the reason both Romney and Ryan will not even tell you one loophole or tax deduction they will reform (eliminate) to pay for the 20% across the board tax cut should tell you that they DO NOT want you to know because you will not like it.  And remember across the board means the cuts to the middle class will be significantly less than those of the rich and because the income gap is so wide the offset to those dollars is going to be paid for by who?  Not the poor, and certainly not the rich who make most of their income of investments rather than labor and those (capital gains) dollars are also excluded along with dividends and the death tax and you cannot comprehend that basic mathematics means they will be paid for by the middle class.  And you have already been told that the financial wizards have already calculated that means middle class actual taxes will go up by thousands of dollars.   


Those arguing that their paycheck will be bigger are quite short sighted that at tax time they will be shelling out money that had better been saving for.  Or you can put it on the credit card and really start putting yourself in the hole the Republican Party has been digging for the middle class for years.  They have been putting you and our government into debt for years and now telling you it has to stop with more cuts to those who do not need them.  An honest person would tell you exactly how it the cuts will be paid for and only the dishonest need to keep it a secret.  These same people tell you the want to save Medicare for you when in fact they did not like it from the beginning and have for years tried to make it disappear and privatize it.  You and other on the right say its socialized medicine and government controlled which makes it bad for the American people and also say you want to save it.  Those are contradictory statement  I guess you also think the health insurance business and the pharmaceuticals  have your best interest in mind and have such a great job on keep out cost down and service high and we do not have a major problem with the system we have had for our under 65 people.  Do you know the definition of the word gullible?  That is who the right has been counting on and yes,  it works sorry to say.  Think about the simple truth of human behavior.







pvtjokerus
by Gold Member on Oct. 14, 2012 at 7:29 PM

Actually, it didn't.  It was well written but you left out some big issues.  Who voted for the wars?  Both demo and repubs.  So don't blame it on one party.   Who predicted the housing market collaspe but was over ruled by Barney Frank and others?  Bush advised them on Freddie and Fannie and basically, the demos told him and the Repubs to pound sand.  Yes, Medicare D was Bush's baby and yes early in the 2000s the Repubs spent a lot.  But the Demos have had the stage since 2006.  That is six years of control that the demos have had and what do we have to show for it?  A lower credit rating, failing economy, out of control spending, unbalanced budget, and continuing resolution for 3 1/2 years that has crippled Federal Agencies and the remainder of the government and a socialized health care system that can't be paid for.  Bottom line is that we are going backwards and the democrats want to continue to take us backwards.  If you continue down this path, make sure your kids learn a dialect of Chinese.

Quoting maddyistheone:

 

Quoting pvtjokerus:

Who has controlled the majority since 2006?

Are we going to erase history and leave out 2001 through 2005 when we had two unpaid for tax cuts, the start of two wars that where off the books and an unfunded Medicare D plan?  From 2006 we had unenforced Wall Street and banking manipulations up though the end of 2008 and I believe Bush was in control and we do know that it is the executive branch that does our enforcement.  And the melt down this caused and lost of jobs was so big that even the best of economist did not predict its severity.  Now since 2009 we stopped the freefall and began to turn things around ever so slowly thanks the the interference of those who not only caused the problem but want to take back control to insure that the corporations remain in control doing their way.  And the continued weakiing of the middle class (the American workers) to help prevent another Obama type (Democrat) take over of the White House that would help give us back the standard of living and world leadership we once had..  We need to continue to dig ourselves out of the hole our Republican friends put us in and to many people are in to big a hurry to understand it takes time to right a sinking ship.  I want to contiue moving forward and not go backwords and continue to wait for the triclkle down you think is just around the corner.  The job creators have had their tax cuts now for 12 years, where are the jobs?  Oh, they need more you say?  I hope that answered you question.

 

Quoting maddyistheone:

Common sense will tell you the reason both Romney and Ryan will not even tell you one loophole or tax deduction they will reform (eliminate) to pay for the 20% across the board tax cut should tell you that they DO NOT want you to know because you will not like it.  And remember across the board means the cuts to the middle class will be significantly less than those of the rich and because the income gap is so wide the offset to those dollars is going to be paid for by who?  Not the poor, and certainly not the rich who make most of their income of investments rather than labor and those (capital gains) dollars are also excluded along with dividends and the death tax and you cannot comprehend that basic mathematics means they will be paid for by the middle class.  And you have already been told that the financial wizards have already calculated that means middle class actual taxes will go up by thousands of dollars.   

Those arguing that their paycheck will be bigger are quite short sighted that at tax time they will be shelling out money that had better been saving for.  Or you can put it on the credit card and really start putting yourself in the hole the Republican Party has been digging for the middle class for years.  They have been putting you and our government into debt for years and now telling you it has to stop with more cuts to those who do not need them.  An honest person would tell you exactly how it the cuts will be paid for and only the dishonest need to keep it a secret.  These same people tell you the want to save Medicare for you when in fact they did not like it from the beginning and have for years tried to make it disappear and privatize it.  You and other on the right say its socialized medicine and government controlled which makes it bad for the American people and also say you want to save it.  Those are contradictory statement  I guess you also think the health insurance business and the pharmaceuticals  have your best interest in mind and have such a great job on keep out cost down and service high and we do not have a major problem with the system we have had for our under 65 people.  Do you know the definition of the word gullible?  That is who the right has been counting on and yes,  it works sorry to say.  Think about the simple truth of human behavior.

 

 


mommom2000
by Bronze Member on Oct. 14, 2012 at 8:01 PM

Yes I have heard of cutting wasteful spending, that is the difference between you and I.  I can plainly see to help bring the deficit down you need to do both, bring in more revenue and cut wasteful spending. The democrats also understand it will take both.  It's the republicans who are the ones who refuse to do one  of these because they signed a pledge to a lobbyist never to raise taxes. Paying taxes is your patriotic duty.

Quoting Carpy:

Only for you socialists who believe that hard earned money belongs to the government.  Ever hear of cutting wasteful spending?

Quoting mommom2000:

This saying is the one of the funniest talking points of all of them.  It's common sense, where do you think the government receives revenue to run this country?  If they are taking in X amount of dollars and then you cut the same X amount of dollars then that is lost revenue.  The money has to come from somewhere.  That's like saying I don't have a job and I am in debt, the only problem I have is a spending problem, not a revenue problem.  That person still needs to live, the need an income not just to curb there spending
Again simple math spending and taxes is the budget.  You can't just cut taxes, and think the money will just fall out of the sky.  Please explain why you keep using this same talking point over and over?

Quoting Carpy:

When someone references tax cuts not being paid for, their credibility just went down the toilet.
Quoting maddyistheone:

 


Quoting pvtjokerus:


Who has controlled the majority since 2006?


Are we going to erase history and leave out 2001 through 2005 when we had two unpaid for tax cuts, the start of two wars that where off the books and an unfunded Medicare D plan?  From 2006 we had unenforced Wall Street and banking manipulations up though the end of 2008 and I believe Bush was in control and we do know that it is the executive branch that does our enforcement.  And the melt down this caused and lost of jobs was so big that even the best of economist did not predict its severity.  Now since 2009 we stopped the freefall and began to turn things around ever so slowly thanks the the interference of those who not only caused the problem but want to take back control to insure that the corporations remain in control doing their way.  And the continued weakiing of the middle class (the American workers) to help prevent another Obama type (Democrat) take over of the White House that would help give us back the standard of living and world leadership we once had..  We need to continue to dig ourselves out of the hole our Republican friends put us in and to many people are in to big a hurry to understand it takes time to right a sinking ship.  I want to contiue moving forward and not go backwords and continue to wait for the triclkle down you think is just around the corner.  The job creators have had their tax cuts now for 12 years, where are the jobs?  Oh, they need more you say?  I hope that answered you question.


 


Quoting maddyistheone:



Common sense will tell you the reason both Romney and Ryan will not even tell you one loophole or tax deduction they will reform (eliminate) to pay for the 20% across the board tax cut should tell you that they DO NOT want you to know because you will not like it.  And remember across the board means the cuts to the middle class will be significantly less than those of the rich and because the income gap is so wide the offset to those dollars is going to be paid for by who?  Not the poor, and certainly not the rich who make most of their income of investments rather than labor and those (capital gains) dollars are also excluded along with dividends and the death tax and you cannot comprehend that basic mathematics means they will be paid for by the middle class.  And you have already been told that the financial wizards have already calculated that means middle class actual taxes will go up by thousands of dollars.   


Those arguing that their paycheck will be bigger are quite short sighted that at tax time they will be shelling out money that had better been saving for.  Or you can put it on the credit card and really start putting yourself in the hole the Republican Party has been digging for the middle class for years.  They have been putting you and our government into debt for years and now telling you it has to stop with more cuts to those who do not need them.  An honest person would tell you exactly how it the cuts will be paid for and only the dishonest need to keep it a secret.  These same people tell you the want to save Medicare for you when in fact they did not like it from the beginning and have for years tried to make it disappear and privatize it.  You and other on the right say its socialized medicine and government controlled which makes it bad for the American people and also say you want to save it.  Those are contradictory statement  I guess you also think the health insurance business and the pharmaceuticals  have your best interest in mind and have such a great job on keep out cost down and service high and we do not have a major problem with the system we have had for our under 65 people.  Do you know the definition of the word gullible?  That is who the right has been counting on and yes,  it works sorry to say.  Think about the simple truth of human behavior.


 


 

 


 

Carpy
by Platinum Member on Oct. 14, 2012 at 10:30 PM

One thing i have learned on here.  Can't argue with stupid.

Quoting mommom2000:

Yes I have heard of cutting wasteful spending, that is the difference between you and I.  I can plainly see to help bring the deficit down you need to do both, bring in more revenue and cut wasteful spending. The democrats also understand it will take both.  It's the republicans who are the ones who refuse to do one  of these because they signed a pledge to a lobbyist never to raise taxes. Paying taxes is your patriotic duty.

Quoting Carpy:

Only for you socialists who believe that hard earned money belongs to the government.  Ever hear of cutting wasteful spending?

Quoting mommom2000:

This saying is the one of the funniest talking points of all of them.  It's common sense, where do you think the government receives revenue to run this country?  If they are taking in X amount of dollars and then you cut the same X amount of dollars then that is lost revenue.  The money has to come from somewhere.  That's like saying I don't have a job and I am in debt, the only problem I have is a spending problem, not a revenue problem.  That person still needs to live, the need an income not just to curb there spending
Again simple math spending and taxes is the budget.  You can't just cut taxes, and think the money will just fall out of the sky.  Please explain why you keep using this same talking point over and over?

Quoting Carpy:

When someone references tax cuts not being paid for, their credibility just went down the toilet.
Quoting maddyistheone:



Quoting pvtjokerus:


Who has controlled the majority since 2006?


Are we going to erase history and leave out 2001 through 2005 when we had two unpaid for tax cuts, the start of two wars that where off the books and an unfunded Medicare D plan?  From 2006 we had unenforced Wall Street and banking manipulations up though the end of 2008 and I believe Bush was in control and we do know that it is the executive branch that does our enforcement.  And the melt down this caused and lost of jobs was so big that even the best of economist did not predict its severity.  Now since 2009 we stopped the freefall and began to turn things around ever so slowly thanks the the interference of those who not only caused the problem but want to take back control to insure that the corporations remain in control doing their way.  And the continued weakiing of the middle class (the American workers) to help prevent another Obama type (Democrat) take over of the White House that would help give us back the standard of living and world leadership we once had..  We need to continue to dig ourselves out of the hole our Republican friends put us in and to many people are in to big a hurry to understand it takes time to right a sinking ship.  I want to contiue moving forward and not go backwords and continue to wait for the triclkle down you think is just around the corner.  The job creators have had their tax cuts now for 12 years, where are the jobs?  Oh, they need more you say?  I hope that answered you question.


 


Quoting maddyistheone:



Common sense will tell you the reason both Romney and Ryan will not even tell you one loophole or tax deduction they will reform (eliminate) to pay for the 20% across the board tax cut should tell you that they DO NOT want you to know because you will not like it.  And remember across the board means the cuts to the middle class will be significantly less than those of the rich and because the income gap is so wide the offset to those dollars is going to be paid for by who?  Not the poor, and certainly not the rich who make most of their income of investments rather than labor and those (capital gains) dollars are also excluded along with dividends and the death tax and you cannot comprehend that basic mathematics means they will be paid for by the middle class.  And you have already been told that the financial wizards have already calculated that means middle class actual taxes will go up by thousands of dollars.   


Those arguing that their paycheck will be bigger are quite short sighted that at tax time they will be shelling out money that had better been saving for.  Or you can put it on the credit card and really start putting yourself in the hole the Republican Party has been digging for the middle class for years.  They have been putting you and our government into debt for years and now telling you it has to stop with more cuts to those who do not need them.  An honest person would tell you exactly how it the cuts will be paid for and only the dishonest need to keep it a secret.  These same people tell you the want to save Medicare for you when in fact they did not like it from the beginning and have for years tried to make it disappear and privatize it.  You and other on the right say its socialized medicine and government controlled which makes it bad for the American people and also say you want to save it.  Those are contradictory statement  I guess you also think the health insurance business and the pharmaceuticals  have your best interest in mind and have such a great job on keep out cost down and service high and we do not have a major problem with the system we have had for our under 65 people.  Do you know the definition of the word gullible?  That is who the right has been counting on and yes,  it works sorry to say.  Think about the simple truth of human behavior.









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