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News & Politics News & Politics

Texas has the backing to secede

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Hooray for Texas? I am really not sure how I feel about this.  I think it is ridiculous that they would consider secession simply because the democratic process didn't go their way but at the same time I don't think the US really needs this type of ignorance in it's government.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/texas-petition-secede-reaches-threshold-obama-comment/story?id=17701519#.UKI2Y4e5OHM

A petition for Texas to secede from the union, submitted to the White House, reached the number of signatures needed to draw comment from the Obama administration today.

The petition appeared on a section of the White House website called "We the People" that invites users with a U.S. zip code to submit or sign petitions about policy changes they would like to see. A petition must reach 25,000 signatures within 30 days for the administration to comment on it.

The petition  to "Peacefully grant the State of Texas to withdraw from the United States of America and create its own NEW government," was submitted on Friday of last week. Just three days later, it zoomed past the 25,000 mark at 3:22 p.m. today and kept going.

In order to sign a petition, users must register with the site using a valid email address and entering their zip code. The site's terms of participation indicates it has mechanisms in place to block spam, but it does not say anything about verifying zip codes or state residency.

Many signatures on the petition came from Texas, but some also claimed to be from other states, including Flagstaff, Ariz., Pinebluff, Ark., and Rio Rancho, N.M. Some did not publicly list their residency.

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At least 17 other states have similar petitions to the Texas secession request on the We the People forum including New Jersey, New York, Montana, Colorado, Louisiana, Georgia, Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Indiana, North Carolina, Kentucky, Mississippi, Missouri, South Carolina, Oregon and Michigan. The closest behind Texas was Louisiana with 15,617 signatures.

In 2009, Texas Gov. Rick Perry hinted that anti-Washington sentiment could lead residents of his state to seek independence from the union.

"There's a lot of different scenarios," Perry said. "We've got a great union. There's absolutely no reason to dissolve it. But if Washington continues to thumb their nose at the American people, you know, who knows what might come out of that. But Texas is a very unique place, and we're a pretty independent lot to boot."

At time of publishing, Perry's office had not responded to a request for comment.

So far, the president has not commented on the petition and there is no guarantee that he will. The terms of participation give the president some loopholes.

"To avoid the appearance of improper influence, the White House may decline to address certain procurement, law enforcement, adjudicatory, or similar matters properly within the jurisdiction of federal departments or agencies, federal courts, or state and local government in its response to a petition," the site says.

by on Nov. 13, 2012 at 7:15 AM
Replies (231-238):
Billiejeens
by Ruby Member on Nov. 14, 2012 at 2:51 PM

That is not very productive.

That would be like me saying without all the slut and whore liberals. we could have a nice moral society, you would not think that was productive would you?

Quoting blues_pagan:

I wouldn't mind that all then I wouldn't have to hear all the noise from dumbass conservatives. things here would run so smoothly for us then.  The south, well lol good luck with that.


Quoting Billiejeens:

I have read this petition thing before, and I have what I believe is a much superior idea (of course).

If you go to a party and someone(s) can't be responsible, gets overly drunk, acts inappropriately, you don't leave the party, you make them leave the party.

We need a really good petition requesting that California, Oregon, and Washington in the West, and the New England States be forced to secede.

The country that would be left would be fabulous.



Billiejeens
by Ruby Member on Nov. 14, 2012 at 2:55 PM

Maybe you didn't understand the question.

Can you provide some type of spreadsheet showing the financial viability of the 2 areas after the split?

Quoting katy_kay08:

http://www.economist.com/blogs/dailychart/2011/08/americas-fiscal-union

www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/02db06co.xls

Quoting Billiejeens:

I keep hearing nonsense sch as this.

Could you do a spreadsheet of some sort, showing how this is a reality.

Quoting katy_kay08:

The problem with her "plan" is the states she wants to kick out of the "party" are the ones paying for most of it.  ;)

Quoting blues_pagan:

I wouldn't mind that all then I wouldn't have to hear all the noise from dumbass conservatives.  things here would run so smoothly for us then.  The south, well lol good luck with that.


Quoting Billiejeens:

I have read this petition thing before, and I have what I believe is a much superior idea (of course).

If you go to a party and someone(s) can't be responsible, gets overly drunk, acts inappropriately, you don't leave the party, you make them leave the party.

We need a really good petition requesting that California, Oregon, and Washington in the West, and the New England States be forced to secede.

The country that would be left would be fabulous.



 



katy_kay08
by on Nov. 14, 2012 at 2:59 PM
1 mom liked this

That was not your question.  My point was that the state's paying most in taxes and taking the least are generally the states you believe should be kicked out of the union.  That is supported by my first link and the second link is for an older spreadsheet on the IRS website.  

If you want to run the numbers to see how the states will fair without the tax revenue of the states you want removed by all means have at it. 

and here is another one for you when you run the numbers.  

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=407

ETA: I would also point out the obvious, removing the liberal states wouldn't really help you much since Obama would still be President.  The blue states being asked to leave wouldn't change the results of the election that has already been held.  

I will also add that your analogy falls rather flat as this isn't a "party" in which one group is hosting the other and has some expectation of behavior.  The rights of the states you disagree with certainly are not up for revocation simply because you don't like their politics.  


Quoting Billiejeens:

Maybe you didn't understand the question.

Can you provide some type of spreadsheet showing the financial viability of the 2 areas after the split?

Quoting katy_kay08:

http://www.economist.com/blogs/dailychart/2011/08/americas-fiscal-union

www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/02db06co.xls

Quoting Billiejeens:

I keep hearing nonsense sch as this.

Could you do a spreadsheet of some sort, showing how this is a reality.

Quoting katy_kay08:

The problem with her "plan" is the states she wants to kick out of the "party" are the ones paying for most of it.  ;)

Quoting blues_pagan:

I wouldn't mind that all then I wouldn't have to hear all the noise from dumbass conservatives.  things here would run so smoothly for us then.  The south, well lol good luck with that.


Quoting Billiejeens:

I have read this petition thing before, and I have what I believe is a much superior idea (of course).

If you go to a party and someone(s) can't be responsible, gets overly drunk, acts inappropriately, you don't leave the party, you make them leave the party.

We need a really good petition requesting that California, Oregon, and Washington in the West, and the New England States be forced to secede.

The country that would be left would be fabulous.







Farmlady09
by Silver Member on Nov. 14, 2012 at 6:18 PM


Quoting Faye-Tula:

 

Quoting Farmlady09:

 

Quoting Faye-Tula:

I think it's stupid. Besides what about the people in Texas who don't want to secede?These secessionists seem so self involved that I'm sure they haven't even considered their fellow Texans. 

About half the colonists wanted to fight the revolutionary war. About 20 % remained loyal to King George. The rest sort of hunkered down and hoped no one would notice them until either the war plopped in their front yard, or was over.

The same thing applies to the civil war. If anything, it was worse since families actually split and fought against each other.

Most older countries have several civil wars and power changes under their belts. If you think the US is immune, you need to take off those rosy tinted glasses. Right now we're more divided than at any time in our history ~ and there are women here who think it's funny ... or that a few people are having a tantrum.

It's not that I think the US or any other country is immune to that type of conflict, I just disagree with it. I don't like anything that creates an "us vs. them" atmosphere. Although I can understand fighting against oppression. I don't feel that Texans are being oppressed though. 

What exactly is the point of seceding? I'm sure those 25,000 people that signed the petition all have various idea about the perfect Texas Country. My point was that I don't see the point in seceding when there will always be differences among people. Even if Texas secedes, there will be people who think on opposite ends of the spectrum within Texas and within families. I see no logical reason to cause that kind of discord.

I think it is important for Texans and any others to voice their opinions but I think a way that's less divisive would be better. People will always have differences, but we're only divided when we choose to be.  To me there is no them vs. us. There is only us. I honestly hope that Texas stays with America. 


In theory, I agree with what you've said. The reality is different, and will be as long as half the country wants to head off to some perceived progressive nirvana and the other half wants the contitution brought back front and center. There is no common ground between the two sides at all. Straight across the board, every goal is 180 degrees opposite.

I also think that if several states chose this route they would likely join together in the manner the original 13 colonies started off ~ but without the loopholes (legal and constitutional) that have been written in over the past century by those on the left.

In many ways I agree with TX on this ~ their economy and financial status is working, unlike most other states, and in spite of federal penalties and over-spending. They do request federal aid, and as a state that is their right. Financially it makes sense. I have no doubt though that TX is perfectly capable of picking up the tab to cover their own disasters if need be. They may well be the only state that can say that right now.

As I have stated though, I'm no more willing to compromise at this point than anyone on the progressive side. Our constitution was never intended for such a country, and it will not work. Progressives 'need' a massive government to control the population. I don't, nor do I want even half the amount of government we currently have ... or it's corruption, expense, and waste. There is nothing that is going to convince me that what the admin is doing isn't wrong (and it isn't just Obama, I'm talking about what's gone on for the past 25+ years) ~ and I'd be a hypocrite if I said that the other side should change if I won't. But, I'd be disastrously wrong if I said I thought there could be any easy fix for this mess.

Friday
by Platinum Member on Nov. 14, 2012 at 6:40 PM


Quoting Billiejeens:

That is not very productive.

That would be like me saying without all the slut and whore liberals. we could have a nice moral society, you would not think that was productive would you?

Quoting blues_pagan:

I wouldn't mind that all then I wouldn't have to hear all the noise from dumbass conservatives. things here would run so smoothly for us then.  The south, well lol good luck with that.


Quoting Billiejeens:

I have read this petition thing before, and I have what I believe is a much superior idea (of course).

If you go to a party and someone(s) can't be responsible, gets overly drunk, acts inappropriately, you don't leave the party, you make them leave the party.

We need a really good petition requesting that California, Oregon, and Washington in the West, and the New England States be forced to secede.

The country that would be left would be fabulous.



And yet you make comments along those lines constantly. Funny how you bashing Dem/Libs is cool and funny but when someone says something negative about Cons you bitch. You'll hate on Liberals until the turn Con.

Fascinating.

Reality favors Liberalism

blues_pagan
by on Nov. 14, 2012 at 8:10 PM
1 mom liked this

You know Billie, I am just going to do with you like I did Zilla.  I forgive you.  It's ok to be mad, it's ok that you are the way you are.  It takes a bit of everyone to make the world go around.  I just really hope that one day you dig deep down in yourself and figure out where the need to be so hateful and intolerant of others comes from.  I also hope that you choose to, one day, maybe expand your view of the world.  Take a vacation to a foreign country and see how others live.  Or hell come visit one of the beautiful places in New England and see just how great the area and the people really are.  That is why I moved to Vermont after growing up in Southern Missouri.  I loved it here and felt right at home.  Maybe then you can come here and actually participate in a discussion rather than simply going around to make snarky comments.

Quoting Billiejeens:

That is not very productive.

That would be like me saying without all the slut and whore liberals. we could have a nice moral society, you would not think that was productive would you?

Quoting blues_pagan:

I wouldn't mind that all then I wouldn't have to hear all the noise from dumbass conservatives. things here would run so smoothly for us then.  The south, well lol good luck with that.


Quoting Billiejeens:

I have read this petition thing before, and I have what I believe is a much superior idea (of course).

If you go to a party and someone(s) can't be responsible, gets overly drunk, acts inappropriately, you don't leave the party, you make them leave the party.

We need a really good petition requesting that California, Oregon, and Washington in the West, and the New England States be forced to secede.

The country that would be left would be fabulous.




blues_pagan
by on Nov. 14, 2012 at 8:15 PM

Hi, just want to point something out to you.  While the states may be tiny we do generate quit a bit of revenue when it comes to taxes.  Second, we would have gas and we would still have affordable energy because much of New England is looking at alternative energy as a means of not relying so much on fuel.  As for gas, we would get that too because almost all of our fuel is supplied to us from overseas.  As for consumable goods, much of what we buy up here is from here. Buy local is a huge thing and we have our own farmers who supply us with fresh fruits, veggies, and non tainted (as in no growth hormones or antibiotics like at the mega farms) meat.  

And here

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2012/05/24/who-is-the-smallest-government-spender-since-eisenhower-would-you-believe-its-barack-obama/

Quoting texasgib:

The states mentioned create the most tax revenue?  I don't think so!!  California is broke and won't be fixed any time soon.  New England is so small that the tax revenue is tiny.  Think of what would happen if Texas and the others WOULD secede.  Those states would no longer have gas which would suit ovomit down to the ground.  You could all run around in your electric cars and do without a great deal of the consumable goods too.  You know what I mean!!  Beef, pork, chicken, veggies, wheat, all the things you like to EAT!!!  Oh well, you're probably one of the ones who think that ovomit has spent less than any other president too.


blues_pagan
by on Nov. 14, 2012 at 8:21 PM

Oh and to all those saying that the "blue" northern states are broke...funny thing here for you to read.

The 10 Richest States in the Union

1. New Hampshire

Median income: $66,303

Unemployment rate:5.3 percent

Poverty rate: 7.1 percent

2. Connecticut

Median income: $65,958

Unemployment rate:9.0 percent

Poverty rate: 8.3 percent

3. New Jersey

Median income:$65,173

Unemployment rate:9.4 percent

Poverty rate: 9.8 percent

7. Massachusetts

Median income: $60,923

Unemployment rate:7.4 percent

Poverty rate: 10.9 percent


None of the "Red" southern states were even mentioned in this article.  

Something to think about.

http://money.usnews.com/money/personal-finance/slideshows/the-10-richest-states-in-the-union/12

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