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Gutfeld: Conservatives Must Fight the 'Tyranny of Cool'

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 13 Nov 2012 

I hate hate.

But I also love hate. You could say I have a love-hate relationship with hate. I hate that I feel that way. Which is why I wrote this book. It's a book I love to hate, and vice versa.

My book is called the Joy of Hate for three reasons. 

One: the original title, "Black, Lesbian and Proud" was already taken. Oddly, by Wink Martindale.

Two: it refers to the biochemical commotion that erupts in my brain when I feel an urge of strong distaste for something that bugs me. It’s an experience that is both exhilarating but ultimately exhausting (as fruitless as self-pleasure). When I feel that anger, I cannot do anything but scratch at it. It's a mental mosquito bite and it feels good to keep digging at it.

Three: the title's stronger meaning salutes the freedom one feels rejecting, hating, or mocking things you aren't supposed to reject, hate or mock — meaning the liberal, romantic, misguided opinions operating under the guise of the greater good.

And four: it exposes people who get off pretending to hate something, or hate you, in order to score political points. These are the phony toleratic — a kook who claims to be tolerant, until he runs into someone who disagrees with him (you). The toleratic travel in packs, called the tolerati. Examples of tolerati: soros-funded bloggers, hyenas, the Manson family, Hollywood. The tolerati traffic in faux hate, as a way to elevate their profile, and lower yours. They will overlook the sleaze on their own side (coming in various forms, like Bill Maher and syphilis), while demanding you apologize for a "cruel joke" that harmed no one.

The people I describe are your laughable enemies. And mine too. I invite you to hate them with me, joyfully.

(And yes, I am aware that initially I said there were three reasons for the title, but I gave four. If you had already spotted the flub and felt compelled to deposit an angry comment below, then this book is not for you. It might be for your spouse. I will ask her when she gets out of the shower.)

The Joy of Hate focuses on the hypocrisy of modern tolerance — that it thinly disguises a growing, acceptable intolerance for the things that made America super-awesome. The origin of this phony intolerance springs from one source: the desire to be cool. Everything done in life these days springs from a fear of dorkiness. I called this "dorkophobia," and every time you use it, I get three dollars. Despite the fact that it’s the uncool who make the trains run on time, it's the cool to get the cred. The definition of cool: mass popularity without much achievement. It's how Obama got elected. Ask anyone who voted for him, "Why did you do it?" and the convoluted, wide-eyed answer will ultimately be translated into: "He's cool and that other guy wasn't." The media pushed this to the hilt; and much of the public bought it; giving stuff away is cool — especially when it's others people stuff — and perceived as philanthropic.

So what is perceived as cool, when it's really the opposite?

- Bureaucrats spawned in teacher's lounges chiseling at your income, to the cheers of a pliant media
- Creating dependency as a romantic lifestyle, independent of achievement
- Ridiculing women, minorities, and gays who reject the culture of dependency
- Fake work that doesn't require building, moving or doing things. In 2008, a community organizer beat a war hero who spent years in a prison camp. Apparently that's cool.
- Movements that reject American values in favor of American guilt (Occupy)
- Anti-Americanism as a needy appeasement to our international adversaries
- Hero worship of celebrities based on artificial edginess (Johnny Depp is not really a pirate)
- Destroying things. Did Pete Townsend ever think of the maid as he trashed his 25th hotel room?
- Victimhood. The elevation of the David and Goliath myth as a universal storyboard dictating that evil can be good, as long as it's smaller than the good. If America was a house, the left would root for the termites.
- Code words. Language that aptly describes things is uncool. However, euphemisms created to avoid hurting the feelings of our adversaries is not. Hence, Ft. Hood terror is workplace violence. Which, I guess that makes Hurricane Sandy a pool party.
- Talking about your identity. If you're gay, bisexual, transgendered, Raelian, or Eskimo, chances are I'll hear about it. If you are less proud of what you do than who you do then you're considered cool. 

Where does the tyranny of the cool begin?

As soon as you realize being cool pays off. When you're a kid. In classrooms across the country, kids are learning to gain favor from teachers and peers, and the elevation of "pretend-caring" as a function of cool gets you grades and girls. Stretch this over a decade or so into college, and it's no wonder the streets are flooded with beta males who talk from the back of their throats as they bowl in Brooklyn — ironically.

The cool's hold on society's throat is seen everywhere. Remember that Jon Stewart rally a few years back; that was a celebration of the cool over the uncool (the uncool being the Glenn Beck rallies, the Tea Party, FNC watchers). The cool owns the film industry, as villains take on intriguing personalities, while anyone with a blackberry or a briefcase is considered worse than evil — uncool.

Being pro-choice is cool. Speculating too much on what abortion really means — that's way uncool.

It reminds me of my old joke. "Knock knock." "Who's there?" "You'll never know."

Not cool.

Assorted slugs on death row are cool; their victims are uncool — for never really getting over it.

Sometimes coolness can be confusing. Nobody smokes in LA. But they all do in movies. Somehow smoking is cool, only if you're already cool. When you see a truck driver or a postman smoking, the tolerant break out the phony cough. They'd never do that around Brad Pitt.

Being political is cool, as long as it's progressive. Conservatives by nature hate politics and politicians. Liberals love it, because it makes them feel cool. Talk to any liberal friend, and they're running for office when they're running their mouth. "I must tell you about the bake sale we had for the Guatemalan water snake." No you don't, but you will. Shut up.

Immigration as an idea is cool neutral. But discussing the definition of a border? Uncool, dude. Sure, other countries have them (the ones people are fleeing from); but discussing the possibility of an American border is smeared as racist in origin — the ultimate in uncool. I'm probably racist for writing that.

Who pushes the cool? The media, of course, who seeks to portray anything traditional as silly, dorky, and outmoded. The stuff that worked, apparently, is stupid, because it worked. Witness how the media mocked a gentle mess like the Tea Party but embraced the soiled rag of Occupy Wall Street. To the network and newspaper hacks, one was simply way cooler than the other. One reminded them of their parents, the other reminded them of themselves. Without a bath.

Why is this duopoly, the cool vs. the uncool, so important? It won an election. Showbiz beat substance. Style creamed success. This happens in a culture that salivates over youth, glamour, and glibness. Fashion has no use for Mitts.

The funny thing about cool? It's not cool. At all. In fact, what's truly cool is the rebellion against the perceived, predictable rebellion of the cool.

Why aren't conservatives cool? Why are they perceived as intolerant when it's the other side who are truly the hateful ones? It's a fair question.

We have the cool message. It's "Step off." Or, for you old schoolers, "don't tread on me," which applies domestically and internationally. It's not cool to have a government intrude into every aspect of your life, under the guise of "help." The new electorate must learn this, or we are doomed.

For we know there is nothing cool about dependency. And there's nothing cool about anti-exceptionalism, increased regulation, government control in all sectors, and a fractional country based on race and gender. What's cool is building businesses, military supremacy (which keeps us free to be cool), unity over division (once called patriotism), and competition (which is the universal engine for self-improvement). All of this may sound dorky, but it's as cool as James Dean. We need to teach people how to love this country for the reasons that made this country what it is.

It shouldn't be too hard to win converts, with a message like that. But we haven't. Which is why last Tuesday was necessary.

The cool cats who claim victory last week cannot be too thrilled. For it is a wake up call for the rest of us, the uncool. It's time for new blood. We have the message. We just need the messenger.

In the meantime, the cool kids have to try to govern. Which is kind of like James Dean trying to drive. Unfortunately, we're all in the passenger seat. But we've got two years to find another driver, folks. Ladies and Gentlemen: start your engines.


http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Hollywood/2012/11/13/Tyranny-of-Cool

by on Nov. 14, 2012 at 11:24 PM
Replies (21-30):
Pema_Jampa
by Celeste on Nov. 15, 2012 at 11:04 PM

Well then fine you can believe in "god's" message of love and hope and still be atheist. Was my point all along. 

oh and quite the "story" it is.

Quoting SallyMJ:

He also referred to himself as "I Am", the Old Testament name for God. When he said he was the Son of God, in his time and culture, that was saying he was God. When he said this, the Jewish leaders accused him of blasphemy, "that you, being a man, make yourself out to be God." They knew very well what he was saying. Got him killed. But that's not where the story ends, and he rose from the dead.

And this is in a Greg Gutfeld post - Go figure. :)

Quoting Pema_Jampa:

He claimed to be the son of God. His messages of love and peace are shared throughout many religions. 

Quoting SallyMJ:

But the problem with your statement is that Jesus never claimed to be a man with a wonderful message. He claimed to be God.

Quoting Pema_Jampa:

You can believe that Jesus was a man with a wonderful message to live by. Has nothing to do with said religion.

Quoting 29again:


Quoting Clairwil:

Quoting SallyMJ:

The people I describe are your laughable enemies. And mine too. I invite you to hate them with me, joyfully.

I think I prefer Jesus' approach.

But you are atheist.  How does that work?






29again
by Gold Member on Nov. 16, 2012 at 12:23 AM
2 moms liked this

How do you believe in a message from someone you claim doesn't exist?  If they don't exist, how can there be a message from them? 


And it is not just a story.  It is true and real.  People have been trying to silence His Word for millenia, and it is still going strong. 

Quoting Pema_Jampa:

Well then fine you can believe in "god's" message of love and hope and still be atheist. Was my point all along. 

oh and quite the "story" it is.

Quoting SallyMJ:

He also referred to himself as "I Am", the Old Testament name for God. When he said he was the Son of God, in his time and culture, that was saying he was God. When he said this, the Jewish leaders accused him of blasphemy, "that you, being a man, make yourself out to be God." They knew very well what he was saying. Got him killed. But that's not where the story ends, and he rose from the dead.

And this is in a Greg Gutfeld post - Go figure. :)

Quoting Pema_Jampa:

He claimed to be the son of God. His messages of love and peace are shared throughout many religions. 

Quoting SallyMJ:

But the problem with your statement is that Jesus never claimed to be a man with a wonderful message. He claimed to be God.

Quoting Pema_Jampa:

You can believe that Jesus was a man with a wonderful message to live by. Has nothing to do with said religion.

Quoting 29again:


Quoting Clairwil:

Quoting SallyMJ:

The people I describe are your laughable enemies. And mine too. I invite you to hate them with me, joyfully.

I think I prefer Jesus' approach.

But you are atheist.  How does that work?







Pema_Jampa
by Celeste on Nov. 16, 2012 at 1:00 AM

So called messages were written by men. Many religions share the basic messages be kind, do not kill etc. I personally believe Jesus was a man with some good ideas on how to live a kind and peaceful life.

Whether the stories are real are debatable. People have debated religion for centuries and will continue to do so.

"His Word" is not the only word. One's religious journey is personal.

Quoting 29again:

How do you believe in a message from someone you claim doesn't exist?  If they don't exist, how can there be a message from them? 


And it is not just a story.  It is true and real.  People have been trying to silence His Word for millenia, and it is still going strong. 

Quoting Pema_Jampa:

Well then fine you can believe in "god's" message of love and hope and still be atheist. Was my point all along. 

oh and quite the "story" it is.

Quoting SallyMJ:

He also referred to himself as "I Am", the Old Testament name for God. When he said he was the Son of God, in his time and culture, that was saying he was God. When he said this, the Jewish leaders accused him of blasphemy, "that you, being a man, make yourself out to be God." They knew very well what he was saying. Got him killed. But that's not where the story ends, and he rose from the dead.

And this is in a Greg Gutfeld post - Go figure. :)

Quoting Pema_Jampa:

He claimed to be the son of God. His messages of love and peace are shared throughout many religions. 

Quoting SallyMJ:

But the problem with your statement is that Jesus never claimed to be a man with a wonderful message. He claimed to be God.

Quoting Pema_Jampa:

You can believe that Jesus was a man with a wonderful message to live by. Has nothing to do with said religion.

Quoting 29again:


Quoting Clairwil:

Quoting SallyMJ:

The people I describe are your laughable enemies. And mine too. I invite you to hate them with me, joyfully.

I think I prefer Jesus' approach.

But you are atheist.  How does that work?








SallyMJ
by Ruby Member on Nov. 16, 2012 at 11:42 AM

So then why are you - someone who believes in God's message of love and hope and still an atheist - so antagonistic toward people who believe in God? I don't know if it's just me - but those don't sound to me like loving and hopeful actions consistent with Jesus's message of love and hope. But perhaps that kind of behavior fits into your narrative that believers in God are stupid?

Quoting Pema_Jampa:

Well then fine you can believe in "god's" message of love and hope and still be atheist. Was my point all along. 

oh and quite the "story" it is.

Quoting SallyMJ:

He also referred to himself as "I Am", the Old Testament name for God. When he said he was the Son of God, in his time and culture, that was saying he was God. When he said this, the Jewish leaders accused him of blasphemy, "that you, being a man, make yourself out to be God." They knew very well what he was saying. Got him killed. But that's not where the story ends, and he rose from the dead.

And this is in a Greg Gutfeld post - Go figure. :)

Quoting Pema_Jampa:

He claimed to be the son of God. His messages of love and peace are shared throughout many religions. 

Quoting SallyMJ:

But the problem with your statement is that Jesus never claimed to be a man with a wonderful message. He claimed to be God.

Quoting Pema_Jampa:

You can believe that Jesus was a man with a wonderful message to live by. Has nothing to do with said religion.

Quoting 29again:


Quoting Clairwil:

Quoting SallyMJ:

The people I describe are your laughable enemies. And mine too. I invite you to hate them with me, joyfully.

I think I prefer Jesus' approach.

But you are atheist.  How does that work?







Pema_Jampa
by Celeste on Nov. 16, 2012 at 12:04 PM

No I don't think that people who believe in God are stupid. If that faith brings you peace then it is your path that is wonderful. 

I personally believe one can live a moral and peaceful life without living in fear of being punished by a God(s). We are responsible for our acts here and now. I do believe that once we pass that is the end. 

My comments weren't made to belittle your beliefs. I do apologise if they came off that way. I simply believe differently is all. 

Quoting SallyMJ:

So then why are you - someone who believes in God's message of love and hope and still an atheist - so antagonistic toward people who believe in God? I don't know if it's just me - but those don't sound to me like loving and hopeful actions consistent with Jesus's message of love and hope. But perhaps that kind of behavior fits into your narrative that believers in God are stupid?

Quoting Pema_Jampa:

Well then fine you can believe in "god's" message of love and hope and still be atheist. Was my point all along. 

oh and quite the "story" it is.

Quoting SallyMJ:

He also referred to himself as "I Am", the Old Testament name for God. When he said he was the Son of God, in his time and culture, that was saying he was God. When he said this, the Jewish leaders accused him of blasphemy, "that you, being a man, make yourself out to be God." They knew very well what he was saying. Got him killed. But that's not where the story ends, and he rose from the dead.

And this is in a Greg Gutfeld post - Go figure. :)

Quoting Pema_Jampa:

He claimed to be the son of God. His messages of love and peace are shared throughout many religions. 

Quoting SallyMJ:

But the problem with your statement is that Jesus never claimed to be a man with a wonderful message. He claimed to be God.

Quoting Pema_Jampa:

You can believe that Jesus was a man with a wonderful message to live by. Has nothing to do with said religion.

Quoting 29again:


Quoting Clairwil:

Quoting SallyMJ:

The people I describe are your laughable enemies. And mine too. I invite you to hate them with me, joyfully.

I think I prefer Jesus' approach.

But you are atheist.  How does that work?








SallyMJ
by Ruby Member on Nov. 16, 2012 at 12:24 PM
1 mom liked this

I agree with you that some religions share the messages of be kind, do not murder - but the only other one that comes to mind for me is Judaism - on which Christianity is based. Please help me think of others.

I think it's great that you believe "Jesus was a man with some good ideas on how to live a kind and peaceful life." Could you please share with me some of those ideas? What about the fact that many people - sometimes 10,000, including women and children - saw him turn a boy's lunch into food for thousands of people, with even food left over, and turned water into wine at a wedding where they had run out of wine? What about calming a huge, deadly storm, just by speaking? What about telling a woman at a well facts of her immoral behavior for the past few years, when he had no way of knowing it, which caused her to stop this behavior and believe in him? What about healing people who were blind, lame, insane, had chronic bleeding for 20 years, had leprosy - which alienated people from general society until they died? Again, all of these were observed by many people. What about raising people from the dead, and himself rising from the dead, as he predicted, and which was prophesied thousands of years before? Are these mass hallucinations of people who were there, who knew these people, and in some cases were even related to them? They even wrote about all these occurrences, and could have been publicly proven false by others in the lifetimes of those who had been around during the time of Jesus. Even the renown historian Josephus wrote about the life and resurrection of Jesus.

How do you reconcile Jesus as a mere man with the fact that he said he was God? Seems to me there are only a few conclusions about someone like that. First, he believed what he said about being God, and he was hopelessly deluded, certifiable insane. Would that fit with the fact that his followers turned from frightened rabbits staying inside due to fear about the authorities, including a close friend and follower of Jesus who turned from someone who publicly denied knowing Jesus - into bold followers of Jesus who spread the message about him being God, dying and rising from the dead, and forgiving sins to the known world at the time, and even willingly dying for their faith? That sounds unlikely. If they knew he was insane and didn't believe him, the  more likely response would be to reject him and go on with their lives as fishermen. 

A second conclusion is that Jesus knew what he said was false, and said it anyway. This would mean he was the most evil of men, and that he died for a lie. And that his followers knew he was lying, and went throughout the world telling other people news of what they knew to be a lie, and that they died for a lie. This does not seem consistent behavior for a liar and those who would have known Jesus's claims were lies. And even you and I would not believe the teachings of someone who was a liar and a cheat.

A third conclusion - which I think is the only one left - is that Jesus is exactly whom he claimed to be - God. I think this is the most reasonable explanation based on the evidence. And that is why millions and billions of people have believed him for the past 2,000 years. I could be wrong, but this sounds more than reasonable to me based on the evidence.


And BTW, Greg Gutfeld's book is incisive and laugh-out-loud funny.

Quoting Pema_Jampa:

So called messages were written by men. Many religions share the basic messages be kind, do not kill etc. I personally believe Jesus was a man with some good ideas on how to live a kind and peaceful life.

Whether the stories are real are debatable. People have debated religion for centuries and will continue to do so.

"His Word" is not the only word. One's religious journey is personal.

Quoting 29again:

How do you believe in a message from someone you claim doesn't exist?  If they don't exist, how can there be a message from them? 


And it is not just a story.  It is true and real.  People have been trying to silence His Word for millenia, and it is still going strong. 

Quoting Pema_Jampa:

Well then fine you can believe in "god's" message of love and hope and still be atheist. Was my point all along. 

oh and quite the "story" it is.

Quoting SallyMJ:

He also referred to himself as "I Am", the Old Testament name for God. When he said he was the Son of God, in his time and culture, that was saying he was God. When he said this, the Jewish leaders accused him of blasphemy, "that you, being a man, make yourself out to be God." They knew very well what he was saying. Got him killed. But that's not where the story ends, and he rose from the dead.

And this is in a Greg Gutfeld post - Go figure. :)

Quoting Pema_Jampa:

He claimed to be the son of God. His messages of love and peace are shared throughout many religions. 

Quoting SallyMJ:

But the problem with your statement is that Jesus never claimed to be a man with a wonderful message. He claimed to be God.

Quoting Pema_Jampa:

You can believe that Jesus was a man with a wonderful message to live by. Has nothing to do with said religion.

Quoting 29again:


Quoting Clairwil:

Quoting SallyMJ:

The people I describe are your laughable enemies. And mine too. I invite you to hate them with me, joyfully.

I think I prefer Jesus' approach.

But you are atheist.  How does that work?









Pema_Jampa
by Celeste on Nov. 16, 2012 at 12:49 PM

Buddhism, Islam, and Hinduism share those same messages. Just to name some.I am sure there are more.

The ideals on the way to live ones life. Again helping others, tell the truth, love, not kill etc. 

Not to be mean here but those are stories that are told. I do believe the idea of religion was created so that people had some answers to all the questions as to why and how. It makes us more comfortable thinking we know why we are here and what will happen after. It also makes people behave a certain way. 

The healing happens all the time on tv. You have seen it right? They get all these people in the room and start preaching. They say your emotions get the best of you and people start doing crazy things. Personally don't know never been to any sort of thing. Also we must remember enough money will make some people do and say just about anything. We must question everything.

I could claim right now I am the queen of sheba. Does it make it so?

I do believe that if people are told something long enough they will start to believe it. Maybe Jesus really thought he was "God". Who knows. There have been many prophets or so called prophets if you will. 

Again there is no evidence that Jesus was "God" or even "holy". He was a man who lived a long time ago who preached a religion that was practiced then and that has morphed into something completely different now. 

It doesn't matter what religion you follow as long as one lives a good life. No one religion or faith has all the answers. No evidence that any one of them is more correct than the other. 


Quoting SallyMJ:

I agree with you that some religions share the messages of be kind, do not murder - but the only other one that comes to mind for me is Judaism - on which Christianity is based. Please help me think of others.

I think it's great that you believe "Jesus was a man with some good ideas on how to live a kind and peaceful life." Could you please share with me some of those ideas? What about the fact that many people - sometimes 10,000, including women and children - saw him turn a boy's lunch into food for thousands of people, with even food left over, and turned water into wine at a wedding where they had run out of wine? What about calming a huge, deadly storm, just by speaking? What about healing people who were blind, lame, insane, had chronic bleeding for 20 years, had leprosy - which alienated people from general society until they died? Again, all of these were observed by many people. What about raising people from the dead, and himself rising from the dead, as he predicted, and which was prophesied thousands of years before? Are these mass hallucinations of people who were there and who knew these people, and in some cases were even related to them? They even wrote about this, and could have been publicly proven false by others in the lifetimes of those who had been around during the time of Jesus. 

How do you reconcile Jesus as a mere man with the fact that he said he was God? Seems to me there are only a few conclusions about someone like that. First, he believed what he said about being God, and he was hopelessly deluded, certifiable insane. Would that fit with the fact that his followers turned from frightened rabbits staying inside due to fear about the authorities, including a close friend and follower of Jesus who turned from someone who publicly denied knowing Jesus - into bold followers of Jesus who spread the message about him being God, dying and rising from the dead, and forgiving sins to the known world at the time, and even willingly dying for their faith? That sounds unlikely. If they didn't believe him, the  more likely response would be to reject him and go on with their lives as fishermen. 

A second conclusion is that Jesus knew what he said was false, and said it anyway. This would mean he was the most evil of men, and that he died for a lie. And that his followers knew he was lying, and went throughout the world telling other people news of what they knew to be a lie, and that they died for a lie. This does not seem consistent behavior for a liar and those who would have known Jesus's claims were lies. And even you would not believe thte teachings of someone who was a liar and a cheat.

A third conclusion - which I think is the only one left - is that Jesus is exactly whom he claimed to be - God. I think this is the most reasonable explanation based on the evidence. And that is why millions and billions of people have believed him for the past 2,000 years. I could be wrong, but this sounds more than reasonable to me based on the evidence.


Quoting Pema_Jampa:

So called messages were written by men. Many religions share the basic messages be kind, do not kill etc. I personally believe Jesus was a man with some good ideas on how to live a kind and peaceful life.

Whether the stories are real are debatable. People have debated religion for centuries and will continue to do so.

"His Word" is not the only word. One's religious journey is personal.

Quoting 29again:

How do you believe in a message from someone you claim doesn't exist?  If they don't exist, how can there be a message from them? 


And it is not just a story.  It is true and real.  People have been trying to silence His Word for millenia, and it is still going strong. 

Quoting Pema_Jampa:

Well then fine you can believe in "god's" message of love and hope and still be atheist. Was my point all along. 

oh and quite the "story" it is.

Quoting SallyMJ:

He also referred to himself as "I Am", the Old Testament name for God. When he said he was the Son of God, in his time and culture, that was saying he was God. When he said this, the Jewish leaders accused him of blasphemy, "that you, being a man, make yourself out to be God." They knew very well what he was saying. Got him killed. But that's not where the story ends, and he rose from the dead.

And this is in a Greg Gutfeld post - Go figure. :)

Quoting Pema_Jampa:

He claimed to be the son of God. His messages of love and peace are shared throughout many religions. 

Quoting SallyMJ:

But the problem with your statement is that Jesus never claimed to be a man with a wonderful message. He claimed to be God.

Quoting Pema_Jampa:

You can believe that Jesus was a man with a wonderful message to live by. Has nothing to do with said religion.

Quoting 29again:


Quoting Clairwil:

Quoting SallyMJ:

The people I describe are your laughable enemies. And mine too. I invite you to hate them with me, joyfully.

I think I prefer Jesus' approach.

But you are atheist.  How does that work?










Pema_Jampa
by Celeste on Nov. 16, 2012 at 12:50 PM
1 mom liked this

I will check out the book on my kindle. Thanks!

SallyMJ
by Ruby Member on Nov. 16, 2012 at 12:56 PM

Apology accepted. I'm curious, and hope you don't mind me asking this - Were you raised with any kind of religious faith? How did you come to your conclusion that God does not exist? My older sister has had a hard time believing in, yet being angry at, God since our sister died 11 years ago. How can you be positive about your belief? I don't know about you, but I am pretty sure I am not the smartest person in the world, and that I don't know everything.  Wouldn't it be more intellectually honest to say that you don't know for sure whether or not God exists - that maybe you fall closer to the not believing side, but that no one really can know everything?

Quoting Pema_Jampa:

No I don't think that people who believe in God are stupid. If that faith brings you peace then it is your path that is wonderful. 

I personally believe one can live a moral and peaceful life without living in fear of being punished by a God(s). We are responsible for our acts here and now. I do believe that once we pass that is the end. 

My comments weren't made to belittle your beliefs. I do apologise if they came off that way. I simply believe differently is all. 

Quoting SallyMJ:

So then why are you - someone who believes in God's message of love and hope and still an atheist - so antagonistic toward people who believe in God? I don't know if it's just me - but those don't sound to me like loving and hopeful actions consistent with Jesus's message of love and hope. But perhaps that kind of behavior fits into your narrative that believers in God are stupid?

Quoting Pema_Jampa:

Well then fine you can believe in "god's" message of love and hope and still be atheist. Was my point all along. 

oh and quite the "story" it is.

Quoting SallyMJ:

He also referred to himself as "I Am", the Old Testament name for God. When he said he was the Son of God, in his time and culture, that was saying he was God. When he said this, the Jewish leaders accused him of blasphemy, "that you, being a man, make yourself out to be God." They knew very well what he was saying. Got him killed. But that's not where the story ends, and he rose from the dead.

And this is in a Greg Gutfeld post - Go figure. :)

Quoting Pema_Jampa:

He claimed to be the son of God. His messages of love and peace are shared throughout many religions. 

Quoting SallyMJ:

But the problem with your statement is that Jesus never claimed to be a man with a wonderful message. He claimed to be God.

Quoting Pema_Jampa:

You can believe that Jesus was a man with a wonderful message to live by. Has nothing to do with said religion.

Quoting 29again:


Quoting Clairwil:

Quoting SallyMJ:

The people I describe are your laughable enemies. And mine too. I invite you to hate them with me, joyfully.

I think I prefer Jesus' approach.

But you are atheist.  How does that work?









SallyMJ
by Ruby Member on Nov. 16, 2012 at 1:14 PM

Please understand - I'm not at all saying that you do not live a moral life, and that it isn't possible to live a moral life without religion. That would be stupid and false to say that.

What I am saying is that someone who is open to the facts - whatever they are - needs to pay attention to historical evidence. People agree that the Pharaohs in Egypt, Homer, and the medieval kings of England, and hundreds and thousands of people who lived, and events that happened, long ago, based on written historical evidence. Some of these well-regarded facts are based on fewer than 10 manuscripts, and we rely on them as historical fact. The life and actions of Jesus of Nazareth, and those of his followers, are based on tens of thousands of historical manuscripts - voluminous amounts of historical written evidence - the same thing. Why treat one as fact, and the other as fairy tales? Scientific fact is based on the scientific method of things that can be repeated. Historical fact is based on historical evidence, which is written accounts of these events. Why treat some historical events as true based on historical written evidence, but not the events of Jesus's life? This seems inconsistent, and a deliberate attempt by some (not you) to disregard historical evidence of things they have already decided they don't want to believe.

The life and actions of Jesus of Nazareth are ones that have the most voluminous amounts of historical written evidence -    

Quoting Pema_Jampa:

Buddhism, Islam, and Hinduism share those same messages. Just to name some.I am sure there are more.

The ideals on the way to live ones life. Again helping others, tell the truth, love, not kill etc. 

Not to be mean here but those are stories that are told. I do believe the idea of religion was created so that people had some answers to all the questions as to why and how. It makes us more comfortable thinking we know why we are here and what will happen after. It also makes people behave a certain way. 

The healing happens all the time on tv. You have seen it right? They get all these people in the room and start preaching. They say your emotions get the best of you and people start doing crazy things. Personally don't know never been to any sort of thing. Also we must remember enough money will make some people do and say just about anything. We must question everything.

I could claim right now I am the queen of sheba. Does it make it so?

I do believe that if people are told something long enough they will start to believe it. Maybe Jesus really thought he was "God". Who knows. There have been many prophets or so called prophets if you will. 

Again there is no evidence that Jesus was "God" or even "holy". He was a man who lived a long time ago who preached a religion that was practiced then and that has morphed into something completely different now. 

It doesn't matter what religion you follow as long as one lives a good life. No one religion or faith has all the answers. No evidence that any one of them is more correct than the other. 


Quoting SallyMJ:

I agree with you that some religions share the messages of be kind, do not murder - but the only other one that comes to mind for me is Judaism - on which Christianity is based. Please help me think of others.

I think it's great that you believe "Jesus was a man with some good ideas on how to live a kind and peaceful life." Could you please share with me some of those ideas? What about the fact that many people - sometimes 10,000, including women and children - saw him turn a boy's lunch into food for thousands of people, with even food left over, and turned water into wine at a wedding where they had run out of wine? What about calming a huge, deadly storm, just by speaking? What about healing people who were blind, lame, insane, had chronic bleeding for 20 years, had leprosy - which alienated people from general society until they died? Again, all of these were observed by many people. What about raising people from the dead, and himself rising from the dead, as he predicted, and which was prophesied thousands of years before? Are these mass hallucinations of people who were there and who knew these people, and in some cases were even related to them? They even wrote about this, and could have been publicly proven false by others in the lifetimes of those who had been around during the time of Jesus. 

How do you reconcile Jesus as a mere man with the fact that he said he was God? Seems to me there are only a few conclusions about someone like that. First, he believed what he said about being God, and he was hopelessly deluded, certifiable insane. Would that fit with the fact that his followers turned from frightened rabbits staying inside due to fear about the authorities, including a close friend and follower of Jesus who turned from someone who publicly denied knowing Jesus - into bold followers of Jesus who spread the message about him being God, dying and rising from the dead, and forgiving sins to the known world at the time, and even willingly dying for their faith? That sounds unlikely. If they didn't believe him, the  more likely response would be to reject him and go on with their lives as fishermen. 

A second conclusion is that Jesus knew what he said was false, and said it anyway. This would mean he was the most evil of men, and that he died for a lie. And that his followers knew he was lying, and went throughout the world telling other people news of what they knew to be a lie, and that they died for a lie. This does not seem consistent behavior for a liar and those who would have known Jesus's claims were lies. And even you would not believe thte teachings of someone who was a liar and a cheat.

A third conclusion - which I think is the only one left - is that Jesus is exactly whom he claimed to be - God. I think this is the most reasonable explanation based on the evidence. And that is why millions and billions of people have believed him for the past 2,000 years. I could be wrong, but this sounds more than reasonable to me based on the evidence.


Quoting Pema_Jampa:

So called messages were written by men. Many religions share the basic messages be kind, do not kill etc. I personally believe Jesus was a man with some good ideas on how to live a kind and peaceful life.

Whether the stories are real are debatable. People have debated religion for centuries and will continue to do so.

"His Word" is not the only word. One's religious journey is personal.

Quoting 29again:

How do you believe in a message from someone you claim doesn't exist?  If they don't exist, how can there be a message from them? 


And it is not just a story.  It is true and real.  People have been trying to silence His Word for millenia, and it is still going strong. 

Quoting Pema_Jampa:

Well then fine you can believe in "god's" message of love and hope and still be atheist. Was my point all along. 

oh and quite the "story" it is.

Quoting SallyMJ:

He also referred to himself as "I Am", the Old Testament name for God. When he said he was the Son of God, in his time and culture, that was saying he was God. When he said this, the Jewish leaders accused him of blasphemy, "that you, being a man, make yourself out to be God." They knew very well what he was saying. Got him killed. But that's not where the story ends, and he rose from the dead.

And this is in a Greg Gutfeld post - Go figure. :)

Quoting Pema_Jampa:

He claimed to be the son of God. His messages of love and peace are shared throughout many religions. 

Quoting SallyMJ:

But the problem with your statement is that Jesus never claimed to be a man with a wonderful message. He claimed to be God.

Quoting Pema_Jampa:

You can believe that Jesus was a man with a wonderful message to live by. Has nothing to do with said religion.

Quoting 29again:


Quoting Clairwil:

Quoting SallyMJ:

The people I describe are your laughable enemies. And mine too. I invite you to hate them with me, joyfully.

I think I prefer Jesus' approach.

But you are atheist.  How does that work?











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