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The Great American Pissing Contest

Posted by on Nov. 18, 2012 at 11:47 AM
  • 22 Replies

Let's see if we can finally reach a compromise and get things back on track.  I doubt it but...

From The Washington Post on Thursday, November 15:

It's normal for President Obama and congressional Republicans to be pushing and posturing in the wake of last week's election. Everyone is trying to gauge how the political dynamics have shifted, though on paper the balance of power remains unchanged. All are trying to enhance their bargaining position. Both sides want to seem reasonable to Americans who want Washington to compromise, while reassuring partisans that they will stand up for principle.

It's normal but also potentially dangerous, because compromise is going to be essential.

In the short term, if Congress and Mr. Obama don't reach an agreement by the end of this year, tax rates will rise and spending is due to be slashed. The economy would go back into recession, according to the Congressional Budget Office, and unemployment would spike again.

In the long term, the United States faces ever-mounting debt that could leave the government with little to spend beyond what it owes on pension and health-care programs and interest on the debt. It's been collecting about 16 percent of national economic output in taxes and spending about 24 percent. That's not sustainable.

The biggest obstacle to compromise over the past couple of years has been Republican insistence that revenue can't go up. It has been encouraging to see many in the GOP shift, albeit gingerly, off that position since Mr. Obama's reelection. But most Republican leaders continue to insist that revenue can't be raised by hiking income tax rates. Instead, they suggest a change to the tax code -- limiting the value of deductions and closing loopholes. Some Democrats in Congress and the administration, meanwhile, insist that only raising rates will be acceptable.

Mr. Obama struck an appropriate balance in this debate Wednesday during his first news conference since his reelection. His first choice, he made clear, is for Congress to allow tax rates to rise for the wealthiest 2 percent of the country while keeping everyone else's rates the same. He was skeptical about the loophole-closing route. "You know, the math tends not to work," he said.

But when pressed, he didn't close the door on alternatives. "If the Republican counterparts, or some Democrats, have a great idea for us to raise revenue, maintain progressivity, make sure the middle class isn't getting hit, reduces our deficit, encourages growth, I'm not going to just slam the door in their face," he said. "I'm less concerned about red lines per se."

In fact, as we wrote on Sunday, the Treasury could collect a lot of money, and mostly from the rich, by limiting deductions. This approach could have an added benefit of encouraging people to make decisions based on economic benefit, not gaming the tax system.

But Mr. Obama is right to insist that Republicans, if they favor that alternative, must spell it out and show the math. Allowing rates on the rich to rise to Clinton-era levels would do little to harm economic growth. And limiting charitable or mortgage deductions would be politically difficult; do Republicans really have the votes for that? Mr. Obama is right to keep the door open. He's also right not to give up the leverage of rates that, absent any congressional action, will rise with the new year.

by on Nov. 18, 2012 at 11:47 AM
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Replies (1-10):
29again
by Gold Member on Nov. 18, 2012 at 11:58 AM
1 mom liked this

How many of Obama's aides owe back taxes?  How about we start THERE, with getting revenue from the evaders? 

blues_pagan
by on Nov. 18, 2012 at 12:04 PM

LMAO, oh yes because maybe a few million dollars will so help in our trillion dollar deficit.  

How about people stop being asinine and actually get to work on the real issues.

Quoting 29again:

How many of Obama's aides owe back taxes?  How about we start THERE, with getting revenue from the evaders? 


Canvas_says
by Silver Member on Nov. 18, 2012 at 12:09 PM
1 mom liked this

A few million here, a few million there and it starts to add up. We should never just look at something and see it as "well that's not much" We have many of those programs that in the end could be a great deal of savings. 

Quoting blues_pagan:

LMAO, oh yes because maybe a few million dollars will so help in our trillion dollar deficit.  

How about people stop being asinine and actually get to work on the real issues.

Quoting 29again:

How many of Obama's aides owe back taxes?  How about we start THERE, with getting revenue from the evaders? 



blues_pagan
by on Nov. 18, 2012 at 12:41 PM

I agree that when we look at the budget we should look at all areas where we can save money.  But starting with the smallest issue right now, when we are staring at the bottom of that fiscal cliff, is not what is going to work.  We need to start with the big spenders first and work our way down.

Quoting Canvas_says:

A few million here, a few million there and it starts to add up. We should never just look at something and see it as "well that's not much" We have many of those programs that in the end could be a great deal of savings. 

Quoting blues_pagan:

LMAO, oh yes because maybe a few million dollars will so help in our trillion dollar deficit.  

How about people stop being asinine and actually get to work on the real issues.

Quoting 29again:

How many of Obama's aides owe back taxes?  How about we start THERE, with getting revenue from the evaders? 




Canvas_says
by Silver Member on Nov. 18, 2012 at 12:46 PM

Problem is that neither party is actually interested in cutting their pork from the budget. It's too bad that no matter which president we end up they have their "special groups" that they will make sure don't lose a red cent, or actually gain. The Republicans have to give a little on the military spending aspect, and hope that we don't find ourselves in need of it anytime soon. And the Democrats have to cut entitlement spending. Those two things are some of our largest tax dollars suckers. 

Quoting blues_pagan:

I agree that when we look at the budget we should look at all areas where we can save money.  But starting with the smallest issue right now, when we are staring at the bottom of that fiscal cliff, is not what is going to work.  We need to start with the big spenders first and work our way down.

Quoting Canvas_says:

A few million here, a few million there and it starts to add up. We should never just look at something and see it as "well that's not much" We have many of those programs that in the end could be a great deal of savings. 

Quoting blues_pagan:

LMAO, oh yes because maybe a few million dollars will so help in our trillion dollar deficit.  

How about people stop being asinine and actually get to work on the real issues.

Quoting 29again:

How many of Obama's aides owe back taxes?  How about we start THERE, with getting revenue from the evaders? 





blues_pagan
by on Nov. 18, 2012 at 12:48 PM

I completely agree with this.  Republicans are definitely going to have to get rid of their pet projects in the national defense budget.  These things cost us billions of dollars a year.  And Democrats are going to have to clean up the social services side of the house.  Programs will need to be cut and states are going to have to step in and start taking care of their own.  

Quoting Canvas_says:

Problem is that neither party is actually interested in cutting their pork from the budget. It's too bad that no matter which president we end up they have their "special groups" that they will make sure don't lose a red cent, or actually gain. The Republicans have to give a little on the military spending aspect, and hope that we don't find ourselves in need of it anytime soon. And the Democrats have to cut entitlement spending. Those two things are some of our largest tax dollars suckers. 

Quoting blues_pagan:

I agree that when we look at the budget we should look at all areas where we can save money.  But starting with the smallest issue right now, when we are staring at the bottom of that fiscal cliff, is not what is going to work.  We need to start with the big spenders first and work our way down.

Quoting Canvas_says:

A few million here, a few million there and it starts to add up. We should never just look at something and see it as "well that's not much" We have many of those programs that in the end could be a great deal of savings. 

Quoting blues_pagan:

LMAO, oh yes because maybe a few million dollars will so help in our trillion dollar deficit.  

How about people stop being asinine and actually get to work on the real issues.

Quoting 29again:

How many of Obama's aides owe back taxes?  How about we start THERE, with getting revenue from the evaders? 






Canvas_says
by Silver Member on Nov. 18, 2012 at 1:00 PM
2 moms liked this

All that may be left is allowing ourselves to go over the "fiscal cliff" and pay for both parties let downs. The bill has come due and it's been kicked down the road for awhile now. I'm more on board now for allowing the impending recession as it's result than to just again raise the debt ceiling, sign into law again for a short term these temporary tax cuts. We have too long been dining on caviar on the budget of fish sticks. 

Quoting blues_pagan:

I completely agree with this.  Republicans are definitely going to have to get rid of their pet projects in the national defense budget.  These things cost us billions of dollars a year.  And Democrats are going to have to clean up the social services side of the house.  Programs will need to be cut and states are going to have to step in and start taking care of their own.  

Quoting Canvas_says:

Problem is that neither party is actually interested in cutting their pork from the budget. It's too bad that no matter which president we end up they have their "special groups" that they will make sure don't lose a red cent, or actually gain. The Republicans have to give a little on the military spending aspect, and hope that we don't find ourselves in need of it anytime soon. And the Democrats have to cut entitlement spending. Those two things are some of our largest tax dollars suckers. 

Quoting blues_pagan:

I agree that when we look at the budget we should look at all areas where we can save money.  But starting with the smallest issue right now, when we are staring at the bottom of that fiscal cliff, is not what is going to work.  We need to start with the big spenders first and work our way down.

Quoting Canvas_says:

A few million here, a few million there and it starts to add up. We should never just look at something and see it as "well that's not much" We have many of those programs that in the end could be a great deal of savings. 

Quoting blues_pagan:

LMAO, oh yes because maybe a few million dollars will so help in our trillion dollar deficit.  

How about people stop being asinine and actually get to work on the real issues.

Quoting 29again:

How many of Obama's aides owe back taxes?  How about we start THERE, with getting revenue from the evaders? 







SallyMJ
by Ruby Member on Nov. 18, 2012 at 1:03 PM

Obama's (and the Washington Post's) definition of compromise:  Republican and Democrat Congressmen and women bow before The Messiah's policies, which have no relationship to even 4th grade math. Don't think Obama understands the concept of negative numbers - because in the Obama world, no number is ever less than 0. Negative numbers, on the other hand, would be in that fake Paul Ryan budget-based economy,  where poor decisions could mean astronomically high deficits, national debt, and poverty - and extraordinarily low unemployment, economic growth, take-home pay, and numbers of the American Dream vs. the American Nightmare.

mustbeGRACE
by Silver Member on Nov. 18, 2012 at 1:06 PM
2 moms liked this


Quoting blues_pagan:

LMAO, oh yes because maybe a few million dollars will so help in our trillion dollar deficit.  

How about people stop being asinine and actually get to work on the real issues.

Quoting 29again:

How many of Obama's aides owe back taxes?  How about we start THERE, with getting revenue from the evaders? 


Actually, taxing the "rich' at proposed new rates will barely make a dent in the deficit, so why all the excitement to do it??

To give the little people the sense that "fairness" is actually being implemented ?

Libs and whiners know what they can do with their "fairness".

blues_pagan
by on Nov. 18, 2012 at 1:07 PM
1 mom liked this

Sally, are you just willing to sit here and point fingers at one person when it is evident that our entire system is corrupt and working against progress?  If you are then you are part of the problem, not the solution.

Quoting SallyMJ:

Obama's (and the Washington Post's) definition of compromise:  Republican and Democrat Congressmen and women bow before The Messiah's policies, which have no relationship to even 4th grade math. Don't think Obama understands the concept of negative numbers - because in the Obama world, no number is ever less than 0. Negative numbers, on the other hand, would be in that fake Paul Ryan budget-based economy,  where poor decisions could mean astronomically high deficits, national debt, and poverty - and extraordinarily low unemployment, economic growth, take-home pay, and numbers of the American Dream vs. the American Nightmare.


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