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A few truths that may shock both conservatives and liberals

Posted by on Nov. 21, 2012 at 2:44 PM
  • 38 Replies
6 moms liked this

1.  The founding fathers were a mix of many things.  They were not all conservatives who were Christian, gun toting right wing extremists.  In fact they were a blend of many different ideals.  Thomas Jefferson was a classical liberal.  Ben Franklin was a Libertarian.  James Madison was a Democrat-Republican.  They held many different views on everything ranging from how the government should be ran to religion.  To mark them as one over another is simply disingenuous.

2.  The greatest evil this country has ever faced is countless.  It could range from the mass genocide of the Native Americans to internment camps during WW2.  As of right now abortion probably does not top the list since it is more of a theological and moral arguement.

3.  Conservatives tend to give to charity in the form of their religious establishment.  Liberals tend to push more for their tax money to go to humanitarian and social efforts to help people.  So while Liberals may not give as much to charity it is also easy to state that Conservatives are still tight with funds when they try to take away social funding (aka "entitlements") such as taking away certain safety nets like foodstamps & medicare/medicaid.  Either way, one is not above the other in the "caring" category, they simply do it differently.

4.  The "wall of seperation" can be traced back to a letter Thomas Jefferson wrote in 1802.  In 1801 the Danbury Baptist Association of Conneticut wrote to Jefferson voicing their concerns over religious freedom.  Here Jefferson clearly stated, "Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State."

That can be taken one of two ways, that either the government has no right to establish one religion over another or that the government has no right to dictate peoples religious activies.  Either way, this is not a liberal agenda to destroy Christianity.

5.  Barack Obama does not have control of gas prices, that is dependent on the global economy.  Currently, America is paying far less in gas than many European countries (63% less than some countries).  http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-08-29/american-gasoline-a-bargain-as-drivers-pay-63-less-than-norway.html

6.  Patriotism comes in many forms.  For some it is as simple as wearing an American flag pin for others it is volunteering to help the needy.  I am sure that we have all met conservatives who consider themselves "patriotic" because they fly a flag in their yard but that is it.  I am also sure we know some liberals who are patriotic in that they served their country or volunteer to help their community. 

7.  Racism, now there is a conversation to have.  I think it is safe to say that racism is far from dead.  Look at how the President is regarded by some.  While it may be used for political reasons I am sure that it is not the biggest reason it is used.

8.  Income tax:  while many do pay their fair share they also get their fair share returned come tax return season.  To say that the poor pay nothing is simply not true.  Many times the poor are working hard for the money they earn.  

9.  General welfare was a concept that even our founding fathers understood.  They understood that in civilizations create the poor (read Thomas Paine's Agrarian Justice).  With that the founding fathers set in place taxes that would go to help the poor and impoverished.  It is not a right but a civic duty to take care of those who need it.

10.  Voter registration is important in order to ensure that voter fraud does not occur.  For many it is as simple as filling out a form that then goes to the town clerks office and the name is checked and then put on the voter rolls.  This is handy for those people who may not have a driver license or other form of picture ID.  While I agree that voter fraud is an issue that needs to be addressed, denying people the right to vote because they don't have a drivers license or form of ID is wrong.

11.  The private market can be blamed for our current recession.  Blind faith in the free market is what caused the housing bubble.  Self interest in the free market overruled the many.  http://www.fee.org/the_freeman/detail/did-deregulated-derivatives-cause-the-financial-crisis

12.  Some of the most recent atrocities in the education system and against teachers have come from Republicans.  Gov. Christie made deep cuts to the education system in his state and budget cuts to the education system have been a popular method to help reduce the deficit.  Teach for America is a liberal agenda that helps even the conservative agenda.  http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/post/teach-for-america-liberal-mission-helps-conservative-agenda/2011/12/25/gIQApoVZHP_blog.html

13.  The views of left and right can be drastic.  depending on what type of socialism you are talking about it can be either left or right.  The German National Socialist party was extreme right while Stalin Socialism is left.  The same goes for communism and facism since it all depends on who is in charge.

14.  There was a drastic switch in party ideals between Republicans and Democrats.  To say that the Democratic party of today is racist is simply wrong.  To say that recognizing that certain people are put down because of the color of their skin is not racist.  

15.  Liberals have morals.  I have many Christian friends who hold Christian morals but are Liberal.  To paint such a generalization is wrong since people come from many backgrounds and identify with certain political parties for many different reasons.

16.  Spending and overreach are definitely detrimental to our country.  But it is on both sides.  Liberals do tend to overreach when it comes to social reform while Conservatives overreach when it comes to defense spending.  Both sides need to negotiate and figure out what we need and what they want.

17.  Greed:  : a selfish and excessive desire for more of something (as money) than is needed.  That means that a Conservative businessman who hides his money away in an offshore acct to avoid taxes is as greedy as the Liberal hippy who wants what everyone else has but doesn't want to work for it.

18.  There are victims on both sides just as much as there are people who want to act the part to get something out of it.

19.  Jesus was many things but he didn't get involved with politics in his own time.  He did draw lines on what was right and wrong but he also dined with sinners and saved a woman from being stoned to death.

20.  No one is asking fo free birth control.  Instead we are asking for it to be affordable and accessible to everyone.  Besides that it has been proven that places that offer birth control for little to no cost have lower abortion rates.

http://news.wustl.edu/news/Pages/24334.aspx



Yes, some of this is purely my opinion and everyone has the right to agree or disagree with it, just like the article that spawned this was based purely on the authors opinion.  Neither side is right or wrong but some do have their facts skewed.  Hopefully this will lead to some decent conversation that is respectful of both sides.

by on Nov. 21, 2012 at 2:44 PM
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Replies (1-10):
Peanutx3
by Silver Member on Nov. 21, 2012 at 2:59 PM
3 moms liked this

Thank you for posting.  I agree with what you said.

Friday
by Platinum Member on Nov. 21, 2012 at 3:11 PM


Quoting Peanutx3:

Thank you for posting.  I agree with what you said.

I think I'll stalk you today. = )


Church of The Invisible Pink Unicorn (blessed be her holy hooves)

Ednarooni160
by Eds on Nov. 21, 2012 at 3:16 PM
1 mom liked this

20.  No one is asking fo free birth control.  Instead we are asking for it to be affordable and accessible to everyone.  Besides that it has been proven that places that offer birth control for little to no cost have lower abortion rates.

http://news.wustl.edu/news/Pages/24334.aspx

Wonder who that "we" is..

Something tells me that liberals will NOT be shocked by any of this..in fact I'm betting that they will agree with you whole heartedly. Oh and you left out the holocaust..it was one of the greatest evils of all time.

Peanutx3
by Silver Member on Nov. 21, 2012 at 3:18 PM


Quoting Friday:


Quoting Peanutx3:

Thank you for posting.  I agree with what you said.

I think I'll stalk you today. = )

Stalk away  :~)

emeraldangel2.0
by on Nov. 21, 2012 at 3:21 PM
1 mom liked this


Quoting Ednarooni160:

20.  No one is asking fo free birth control.  Instead we are asking for it to be affordable and accessible to everyone.  Besides that it has been proven that places that offer birth control for little to no cost have lower abortion rates.

http://news.wustl.edu/news/Pages/24334.aspx

Wonder who that "we" is..

Something tells me that liberals will NOT be shocked by any of this..in fact I'm betting that they will agree with you whole heartedly. Oh and you left out the holocaust..it was one of the greatest evils of all time.

what does the holcaust have to do with the statement in blue?

oh, right, nothing. moving on.

what is so wrong with wantiong affordable birth control? oh, my bad, once again, NOTHING.


blues_pagan
by on Nov. 21, 2012 at 3:21 PM
1 mom liked this

I consider myself a liberal of sorts, that is who "we" is.  

And I am sure that there will be liberals who will agree with me just like there were conservatives that agreed with Zilla.  But if you look there is truth in my post that did not have to resort to name calling or bashing.  

And I left out the Holocaust because America was not the cause of that problem.  

Quoting Ednarooni160:

20.  No one is asking fo free birth control.  Instead we are asking for it to be affordable and accessible to everyone.  Besides that it has been proven that places that offer birth control for little to no cost have lower abortion rates.

http://news.wustl.edu/news/Pages/24334.aspx

Wonder who that "we" is..

Something tells me that liberals will NOT be shocked by any of this..in fact I'm betting that they will agree with you whole heartedly. Oh and you left out the holocaust..it was one of the greatest evils of all time.


Ednarooni160
by Eds on Nov. 21, 2012 at 3:29 PM
2 moms liked this


Quoting blues_pagan:

I consider myself a liberal of sorts, that is who "we" is.  

And I am sure that there will be liberals who will agree with me just like there were conservatives that agreed with Zilla.  But if you look there is truth in my post that did not have to resort to name calling or bashing.  

And I left out the Holocaust because America was not the cause of that problem.  

Quoting Ednarooni160:

20.  No one is asking fo free birth control.  Instead we are asking for it to be affordable and accessible to everyone.  Besides that it has been proven that places that offer birth control for little to no cost have lower abortion rates.

http://news.wustl.edu/news/Pages/24334.aspx

Wonder who that "we" is..

Something tells me that liberals will NOT be shocked by any of this..in fact I'm betting that they will agree with you whole heartedly. Oh and you left out the holocaust..it was one of the greatest evils of all time.


Americans did face that evil..we "all" faced it, there are Jews living in this country now and they were then..but thanks for clarifying your point..  I don't know why you brought  Ima into it unless this was just a post for liberals of what you thought was opposite of Ima's post... You should have posted that. . I read it..and it was leaning towards liberals (imo).. If you did not want me to respond or any conservatives to respond then you should put it up at your post. I have liked what you have said before... I am in awe for what you did with that lady at your church..but again..this is leaning towards liberals (imo).

**I should clarify..I just saw two names with blue infront of it..IF I have confused you and/or visa versa with blueroofarm..my apologies to both of you.  I'm still in "awe" of that..whoever did it.

blues_pagan
by on Nov. 21, 2012 at 3:34 PM
2 moms liked this

I don't care who responds to this post.  This post is obviously in response to the article the Zilla posted.  

And yes this does lean towards liberals and I tried very hard to keep it as moderate as possible.  I didn't want to bash conservatives here but the article that was posted was very bias and hurtful.  

Quoting Ednarooni160:


Quoting blues_pagan:

I consider myself a liberal of sorts, that is who "we" is.  

And I am sure that there will be liberals who will agree with me just like there were conservatives that agreed with Zilla.  But if you look there is truth in my post that did not have to resort to name calling or bashing.  

And I left out the Holocaust because America was not the cause of that problem.  

Quoting Ednarooni160:

20.  No one is asking fo free birth control.  Instead we are asking for it to be affordable and accessible to everyone.  Besides that it has been proven that places that offer birth control for little to no cost have lower abortion rates.

http://news.wustl.edu/news/Pages/24334.aspx

Wonder who that "we" is..

Something tells me that liberals will NOT be shocked by any of this..in fact I'm betting that they will agree with you whole heartedly. Oh and you left out the holocaust..it was one of the greatest evils of all time.


Americans did face that evil..we "all" faced it, there are Jews living in this country now and they were then..but thanks for clarifying your point..  I don't know why you brought  Ima into it unless this was just a post for liberals of what you thought was opposite of Ima's post... You should have posted that. . I read it..and it was leaning towards liberals (imo).. If you did not want me to respond or any conservatives to respond then you should put it up at your post. I have liked what you have said before... I am in awe for what you did with that lady at your church..but again..this is leaning towards liberals (imo).


Ednarooni160
by Eds on Nov. 21, 2012 at 3:35 PM


Quoting emeraldangel2.0:


Quoting Ednarooni160:

20.  No one is asking fo free birth control.  Instead we are asking for it to be affordable and accessible to everyone.  Besides that it has been proven that places that offer birth control for little to no cost have lower abortion rates.

http://news.wustl.edu/news/Pages/24334.aspx

Wonder who that "we" is..

Something tells me that liberals will NOT be shocked by any of this..in fact I'm betting that they will agree with you whole heartedly. Oh and you left out the holocaust..it was one of the greatest evils of all time.

what does the holcaust have to do with the statement in blue?

oh, right, nothing. moving on.

what is so wrong with wantiong affordable birth control? oh, my bad, once again, NOTHING.

Well alrighty just move along..you could have just posted a statement without a question first..it would clarify things..

Ednarooni160
by Eds on Nov. 21, 2012 at 3:37 PM
1 mom liked this


Quoting blues_pagan:

I don't care who responds to this post.  This post is obviously in response to the article the Zilla posted.  

And yes this does lean towards liberals and I tried very hard to keep it as moderate as possible.  I didn't want to bash conservatives here but the article that was posted was very bias and hurtful.  

Quoting Ednarooni160:


Quoting blues_pagan:

I consider myself a liberal of sorts, that is who "we" is.  

And I am sure that there will be liberals who will agree with me just like there were conservatives that agreed with Zilla.  But if you look there is truth in my post that did not have to resort to name calling or bashing.  

And I left out the Holocaust because America was not the cause of that problem.  

Quoting Ednarooni160:

20.  No one is asking fo free birth control.  Instead we are asking for it to be affordable and accessible to everyone.  Besides that it has been proven that places that offer birth control for little to no cost have lower abortion rates.

http://news.wustl.edu/news/Pages/24334.aspx

Wonder who that "we" is..

Something tells me that liberals will NOT be shocked by any of this..in fact I'm betting that they will agree with you whole heartedly. Oh and you left out the holocaust..it was one of the greatest evils of all time.


Americans did face that evil..we "all" faced it, there are Jews living in this country now and they were then..but thanks for clarifying your point..  I don't know why you brought  Ima into it unless this was just a post for liberals of what you thought was opposite of Ima's post... You should have posted that. . I read it..and it was leaning towards liberals (imo).. If you did not want me to respond or any conservatives to respond then you should put it up at your post. I have liked what you have said before... I am in awe for what you did with that lady at your church..but again..this is leaning towards liberals (imo).


You didn't want to BASH conservatives but that article was very "hurtful" to you.. I see..

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