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News & Politics News & Politics

The Real Root of Atheists' Anti-Christmas Rage

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 Why do some atheists embarrass themselves year after year trying to eradicate Christmas from American culture? Why do they make themselves societal hemorrhoids during this hallowed season? Is it because they are crusaders for equality, secularism’s saviors and humanism’s heroes? I’m sure that’s what they tell themselves when they’re pouting on their couches all alone on Christmas Eve after every single one of their friends has dumped them for being a rabid jackass.

I believe, however—and I could be wrong—that the reason some rage against the machine is that they hate God and love their sin, and bringing up Jesus in December is not the way they wanted to finish off the year. Indeed, Christ really rains on their parade … and they love their parade.

Christmas, if you really get down to the brass tacks of it, isn’t about reindeer, elves, iPhones or Lindsay Lohan punching a gypsy, but about mankind’s sin problem and what God did to remedy it by sending His Son.

I know the chief facet most people focus on regarding Christ’s birth has been the peace on earth and good will toward men stuff, but if you dig around in the gospels a tad you’ll quickly see that the “peace on earth” thing is an ancillary perk to the main reason the second person of the godhead donned an earth suit and decided to hang out with us dunderheads. The core cause that necessitated Jesus’ incarnation was our jacked up carnality. Yep, Hambone, it was our sin. There, I said it. Sin. Yours, mine and ours.

Transgression was the reason for the season.

This is why El Diablo didn’t pass out cigars at Jesus’ birth. Happy he was not that the Son was not only going to address our sins but He was going to eternally and temporally salvage those who believe from sin’s fetid effects. This is why slewfoot energized Herod to put a hit out on the Nazarene when He was a wee little baby and why Satan’s demon inspired ilk are anti-Christmas to this day. Jesus’ birth equated to Satan’s demise.

This is not good news to some, though. Indeed, many atheists are up front about it and don’t want to leave their wantonness. As Jesus Himself said, they prefer darkness to light and don’t like to be reminded of their personal accountability for their sin—and thus their need for salvation—and therefore we should not expect them to be stoked about Jesus’ birthday party.

This is easy math, folks: A person who has no remorse and thus no desire to repent from their sins is probably not going to be a big advocate for the celebration of the person who reminds them they’re wrong and calls them to repent and believe.

Call me goofy, but I’m forever grateful for Jesus’ birth, His attesting miracles, His sacrificial death, burial and resurrection. While most atheists this Christmas will be drinking to forget, I will, as Martin Luther said, drink to remember the One who was and is and is to come.

http:/ / townhall. com/columnists/douggiles/2012/12/02/the_real_root_of_atheists_antichristmas_rage/page/full/

 

by on Dec. 6, 2012 at 4:35 PM
Replies (31-40):
doomshroom
by Member on Dec. 6, 2012 at 10:54 PM
3 moms liked this
This is riddled with misconceptions about atheists. Ridiculous.

And for the record, I love the holiday season and think people should happily celebrate whatever they want to.
Posted on the NEW CafeMom Mobile
PeeperSqueak
by on Dec. 6, 2012 at 10:55 PM
3 moms liked this

Interesting.......! thank you for the post : )

After reading this I had a thought and just have to wonder.......are the miserable shoppers at Walmart, Target and any other Department Store and Mall athiest ?  I mean Christmas is a time of sharing peace and love.  I just love Christmas time..........at home anyway.  I shop year round for Christmas.....not only to save some $$ but mainly to avoid mean miserable shoppers that are rude and inconsiderate of those around them. Most athiest I've ever known thru this site and irl are just plain unhappy people .....and it shows.

GaleJ
by Member on Dec. 6, 2012 at 10:56 PM
2 moms liked this

I will never understand why some people who hold religious beliefs insist on projecting those beliefs on others, it just makes no sense. I know people who are atheists and they do not spend any more time "pouting on the couch" than those Christians I know at the holidays or any other time. Nor do they worry about a Christian prospective on sin or the myth of the evil represented by the Christian concept of the devil. Most people I know, regardless of their particular individual spiritual beliefs live to give meaning to those principles they find to be worthwhile within, or in the case of atheists, outside, of a spiritual framework or belief in a deity or deities.

As for me, I am a non-deist Pagan and I join with all others of loving hearts who celebrate whatever holiday their spirituality/culture/faith observes. Most center on the concept of light and dark in one way or another so I wish for everyone enough dark to appreciate the light and the understanding that both are good and important. May you know peace, the loving care of others, the joy of giving and receiving and may all have a New Year with enough.

Simply_Janeen
by on Dec. 6, 2012 at 10:56 PM

I'm not trying to get you to change your religious beliefs but am merely pointing out a major concern with religion as a whole. It's one thing to have religious beliefs, it's another thing entirely to try to force them on others. Consider yourself fortunate that you were born in a time and place where your religious beliefs are accepted. That has not always been the case. Religious persecution was a major reason people came to this country to begin with.

Quoting VeronicaTex:

Simply put about the "interesting read":  Despite the world statistics, I am Catholic forever.

My salvation is my own, based on a very deep, very meaningful, very timely relationship with God.

It began when I was baptized and evolved.

As I review my life, all was meant to happen as it did.

Only I can know that...

Veronica

Quoting Simply_Janeen:

Well Veronica, I don't believe in hell (or heaven for that matter) nor do I have any fear of hell. In fact, it was realizing that that took me more down the path to declaring myself an atheist. Before that, it was realizing I did not have faith in god.

You may find this an interesting read. It was written in our local paper not too long ago:


Quote:


THE PROBLEM WITH RELIGION


One of the many difficulties with the world’s religions is that each believes itself to be correct, and all the others to be wrong. Each religion holds critical beliefs that are utterly incompatible with the others. How do we know which we should believe? If having the wrong ideas leads to eternal suffering, we need to know which ones are right.

There are about 2.2 billion Christians on this planet. In order to be identified as a Christian, one must believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, that He was raised from the dead, and that His death offers eternal salvation to all of Mankind. If one does not accept these basic ideas, he really cannot call himself a Christian. Christians believe the Biblical stories about Jesus to be literal, historical truth. However, Earth contains over 7 billion people, meaning that a large majority does not believe these ideas about Jesus. How can it be that so few have this vital knowledge? Does it make sense that a majority of the world’s people could be condemned to eternal despair, simply due to geography?

There are about 1.6 billion Muslims in the world. They believe that Jesus was a lesser prophet than Mohammed, and that God’s true word is revealed only through Mohammed. Though they believe in essentially the same God, they have very different ideas about how He wants us to live in order to be accepted into heaven.
There are about 13 million Jews in the world, and none of them believes that Jesus Christ was the Son of God, or that his death gives us eternal salvation. They believe he was a false messiah, and that the true messiah has not yet come. Islam, Judaism, and Christianity therefore have irreconcilable, non-negotiable ideas about the divinity of Jesus Christ. They cannot all be right.

There are about 1 billion Hindus on this planet, and they do not believe Jesus was a divine being. Hinduism is one of the oldest religions on the planet, predating all the monotheistic religions by centuries. They believe we are reincarnated to live on Earth over and over again. Hindu belief spans monotheism, polytheism, and atheism, clearly an irresolvable conflict with Christianity, Judaism, and Islam.
There are about 500 million Buddhists in the world, and none of them believes in a personal God. They are, therefore, atheist by definition. They do not believe that humans possess an eternal soul. They believe in reincarnation, which is irreconcilable with the beliefs of the monotheistic majority. Buddhism predates those religions by centuries.

There are about 500 million Taoists and Confucianists in the world, and none of them believes in a personal God or the central ideas of Christianity. They identify with multiple Gods, but believe death is final and irrevocable. Consequently, the idea of salvation has no meaning for them.

There are innumerable other religions, each with their own ideas about our origins and our fate. Does it make sense that something as important as the knowledge of the fate of Mankind would be revealed to only a minority, and that the knowledge is not verifiable, but available only through word of mouth? Any sufficiently advanced society in the world could verify the speed of light and the basic laws of planetary motion. Anthropologists of any culture could discover the fact of evolution in the fossil record. Anyone could derive the Pythagorean Theorem from simpler mathematics. Such concepts, independently verifiable by anyone of any culture or age, are very likely to be true.

The world’s religions, on the other hand, are mutually incompatible with one another. Therefore, they cannot all be correct. However, they can all be wrong. From the dawn of human consciousness, we have sought answers to the big questions of why we are here and where we are going. However, we must remain humble enough to say that we simply do not know. No other answer is supported by evidence, and any claim to specific knowledge will be opposed by a majority of the world’s people. It then comes down to faith.

Where faith is concerned, I agree with the co-founder of the Freedom From Religion Foundation, Dan Barker, when he said, “Faith is a cop-out. It is intellectual bankruptcy. If the only way you can accept an assertion is by faith, then you are conceding that it can’t be taken on its own merits.”

Maria Runde is a member of the Lacrosse Area Freethought Society

Quoting VeronicaTex:

I live in a very large city in Central Texas. There is diversity-I just am not part of it, as I am on the Internet.

My marriage, my career as a teacher to a certain degree, my religion, my interests and my daughter's needs have led me to stay in a "certain circle", which, after having lived in Bolivia when I was 17 and having been in the military stationed in California, Massachusetts and West Berlin, Germany, while the Wall was still up,  is not such a bad thing. 

I am enjoying pure bliss being a Stay At Home Mom, worshipping and living as I please, in a very special way with my family and having an intimate realtionship with God the Father, Jesus the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

I live to be with people of like-spirit, in which before I had no real choice.

I am blessed to have been baptized Catholic.

Catholicism will always be the Religion for me.  

Yes, there are bad apples everywhere,(actually the only ones I ever met were in one parent-run Catholic school, )  but in the Catholic Churches I now attend,  I have been blessed to meet very humble people and now am learning so much more about the faith I will never stray from,  through keeping in touch with EWTN-Eternal Word Television Network-The Catholic Channel.

About believing "that certain way":  I believe the message many times given by Christians/Catholics is misinterpreted.

I believe for the most part all people know what sin is...

Going from that point:  

I believe the message is this:  In a way it is advice to point a person in the right direction, away from an eternity of eternal flames and loneliness) "If you, in general, do not change your ways of living which are between you and your salvation: an eternity in Heaven (I am Roman Catholic/Christian speaking here), you will be choosing where you will spend your eternity."

It will not be in Paradise.

However, there is always time to change....

Veronica-Roman Catholic











That said, again, I personally have nothing against Christmas. I have always loved the holiday and feel something magical within it. And even though I do not believe in a god, I believe in being a good human being and I continue to work at that even though I know I'm not perfect at it.



Janeen

Rational, freethinking, atheist and mom to two hurricanes: Natalie (6) and Isabelle (2).

VeronicaTex
by on Dec. 6, 2012 at 11:08 PM
1 mom liked this

What concerns me more than this discussion that you and I are having, is the Religious persecution that is going on as we write. all over the world.

It is horrendous what my Christian brothers and sister have to endure at the hands of others.....

Veronica

Quoting Simply_Janeen:

I'm not trying to get you to change your religious beliefs but am merely pointing out a major concern with religion as a whole. It's one thing to have religious beliefs, it's another thing entirely to try to force them on others. Consider yourself fortunate that you were born in a time and place where your religious beliefs are accepted. That has not always been the case. Religious persecution was a major reason people came to this country to begin with.

Quoting VeronicaTex:

Simply put about the "interesting read":  Despite the world statistics, I am Catholic forever.

My salvation is my own, based on a very deep, very meaningful, very timely relationship with God.

It began when I was baptized and evolved.

As I review my life, all was meant to happen as it did.

Only I can know that...

Veronica

Quoting Simply_Janeen:

Well Veronica, I don't believe in hell (or heaven for that matter) nor do I have any fear of hell. In fact, it was realizing that that took me more down the path to declaring myself an atheist. Before that, it was realizing I did not have faith in god.

You may find this an interesting read. It was written in our local paper not too long ago:


Quote:


THE PROBLEM WITH RELIGION


One of the many difficulties with the world’s religions is that each believes itself to be correct, and all the others to be wrong. Each religion holds critical beliefs that are utterly incompatible with the others. How do we know which we should believe? If having the wrong ideas leads to eternal suffering, we need to know which ones are right.

There are about 2.2 billion Christians on this planet. In order to be identified as a Christian, one must believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, that He was raised from the dead, and that His death offers eternal salvation to all of Mankind. If one does not accept these basic ideas, he really cannot call himself a Christian. Christians believe the Biblical stories about Jesus to be literal, historical truth. However, Earth contains over 7 billion people, meaning that a large majority does not believe these ideas about Jesus. How can it be that so few have this vital knowledge? Does it make sense that a majority of the world’s people could be condemned to eternal despair, simply due to geography?

There are about 1.6 billion Muslims in the world. They believe that Jesus was a lesser prophet than Mohammed, and that God’s true word is revealed only through Mohammed. Though they believe in essentially the same God, they have very different ideas about how He wants us to live in order to be accepted into heaven.
There are about 13 million Jews in the world, and none of them believes that Jesus Christ was the Son of God, or that his death gives us eternal salvation. They believe he was a false messiah, and that the true messiah has not yet come. Islam, Judaism, and Christianity therefore have irreconcilable, non-negotiable ideas about the divinity of Jesus Christ. They cannot all be right.

There are about 1 billion Hindus on this planet, and they do not believe Jesus was a divine being. Hinduism is one of the oldest religions on the planet, predating all the monotheistic religions by centuries. They believe we are reincarnated to live on Earth over and over again. Hindu belief spans monotheism, polytheism, and atheism, clearly an irresolvable conflict with Christianity, Judaism, and Islam.
There are about 500 million Buddhists in the world, and none of them believes in a personal God. They are, therefore, atheist by definition. They do not believe that humans possess an eternal soul. They believe in reincarnation, which is irreconcilable with the beliefs of the monotheistic majority. Buddhism predates those religions by centuries.

There are about 500 million Taoists and Confucianists in the world, and none of them believes in a personal God or the central ideas of Christianity. They identify with multiple Gods, but believe death is final and irrevocable. Consequently, the idea of salvation has no meaning for them.

There are innumerable other religions, each with their own ideas about our origins and our fate. Does it make sense that something as important as the knowledge of the fate of Mankind would be revealed to only a minority, and that the knowledge is not verifiable, but available only through word of mouth? Any sufficiently advanced society in the world could verify the speed of light and the basic laws of planetary motion. Anthropologists of any culture could discover the fact of evolution in the fossil record. Anyone could derive the Pythagorean Theorem from simpler mathematics. Such concepts, independently verifiable by anyone of any culture or age, are very likely to be true.

The world’s religions, on the other hand, are mutually incompatible with one another. Therefore, they cannot all be correct. However, they can all be wrong. From the dawn of human consciousness, we have sought answers to the big questions of why we are here and where we are going. However, we must remain humble enough to say that we simply do not know. No other answer is supported by evidence, and any claim to specific knowledge will be opposed by a majority of the world’s people. It then comes down to faith.

Where faith is concerned, I agree with the co-founder of the Freedom From Religion Foundation, Dan Barker, when he said, “Faith is a cop-out. It is intellectual bankruptcy. If the only way you can accept an assertion is by faith, then you are conceding that it can’t be taken on its own merits.”

Maria Runde is a member of the Lacrosse Area Freethought Society

Quoting VeronicaTex:

I live in a very large city in Central Texas. There is diversity-I just am not part of it, as I am on the Internet.

My marriage, my career as a teacher to a certain degree, my religion, my interests and my daughter's needs have led me to stay in a "certain circle", which, after having lived in Bolivia when I was 17 and having been in the military stationed in California, Massachusetts and West Berlin, Germany, while the Wall was still up,  is not such a bad thing. 

I am enjoying pure bliss being a Stay At Home Mom, worshipping and living as I please, in a very special way with my family and having an intimate realtionship with God the Father, Jesus the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

I live to be with people of like-spirit, in which before I had no real choice.

I am blessed to have been baptized Catholic.

Catholicism will always be the Religion for me.  

Yes, there are bad apples everywhere,(actually the only ones I ever met were in one parent-run Catholic school, )  but in the Catholic Churches I now attend,  I have been blessed to meet very humble people and now am learning so much more about the faith I will never stray from,  through keeping in touch with EWTN-Eternal Word Television Network-The Catholic Channel.

About believing "that certain way":  I believe the message many times given by Christians/Catholics is misinterpreted.

I believe for the most part all people know what sin is...

Going from that point:  

I believe the message is this:  In a way it is advice to point a person in the right direction, away from an eternity of eternal flames and loneliness) "If you, in general, do not change your ways of living which are between you and your salvation: an eternity in Heaven (I am Roman Catholic/Christian speaking here), you will be choosing where you will spend your eternity."

It will not be in Paradise.

However, there is always time to change....

Veronica-Roman Catholic











That said, again, I personally have nothing against Christmas. I have always loved the holiday and feel something magical within it. And even though I do not believe in a god, I believe in being a good human being and I continue to work at that even though I know I'm not perfect at it.




ripemango
by on Dec. 6, 2012 at 11:09 PM
1 mom liked this

i think you may be overlooking the whole "judge not lest ye be judged" thing


I don't know where the sunbeams end and the starlights begin; it's all a mystery.

Simply_Janeen
by on Dec. 6, 2012 at 11:13 PM
1 mom liked this

WOW, seriously? To that I say you haven't met my husband or others who follow his beliefs. They are some of the most negative and judgmental Christians I have EVER met and they HATE Christmas.

I'm not at all a miserable shopper. I know better than to allow myself to be swept into the insanity. I shop because I want to, not because I have to. I enjoy getting things for my children. When I do anything as far as Christmas goes, it's simple, not overboard. I would do this whether I was an atheist or a Christian. I watched my mother go overboard for years at Christmastime then end up in psych in January because of it so I know better. The Christmas traditions I keep are the ones that are meaningful to ME and I celebrate Christmas as a family tradition, not as a religious requirement (which is why I find my husband's week long holy deal stressful).

Quoting PeeperSqueak:

Interesting.......! thank you for the post : )

After reading this I had a thought and just have to wonder.......are the miserable shoppers at Walmart, Target and any other Department Store and Mall athiest ?  I mean Christmas is a time of sharing peace and love.  I just love Christmas time..........at home anyway.  I shop year round for Christmas.....not only to save some $$ but mainly to avoid mean miserable shoppers that are rude and inconsiderate of those around them. Most athiest I've ever known thru this site and irl are just plain unhappy people .....and it shows.


Janeen

Rational, freethinking, atheist and mom to two hurricanes: Natalie (6) and Isabelle (2).

Simply_Janeen
by on Dec. 6, 2012 at 11:23 PM

Uh...I hate to say this but that's kind of the pot calling the kettle black. Hello, the inquisition? The crusades? The wars in Ireland? I think you miss the point as far as the problem with religion goes. The problem is that people who follow a religion cannot just keep it to themselves. They have to force it on everyone else. And this idea that it's the atheists that are doing is um kind of crazy because there's nothing to force on people! Even the bible talks of god telling his people to kill those who don't believe in him. The bible talks numerous times of full-blown genicide.

Quoting VeronicaTex:

What concerns me more than this discussion that you and I are having, is the Religious persecution that is going on as we write. all over the world.

It is horrendous what my Christian brothers and sister have to endure at the hands of others.....

Veronica

Quoting Simply_Janeen:

I'm not trying to get you to change your religious beliefs but am merely pointing out a major concern with religion as a whole. It's one thing to have religious beliefs, it's another thing entirely to try to force them on others. Consider yourself fortunate that you were born in a time and place where your religious beliefs are accepted. That has not always been the case. Religious persecution was a major reason people came to this country to begin with.

Quoting VeronicaTex:

Simply put about the "interesting read":  Despite the world statistics, I am Catholic forever.

My salvation is my own, based on a very deep, very meaningful, very timely relationship with God.

It began when I was baptized and evolved.

As I review my life, all was meant to happen as it did.

Only I can know that...

Veronica

Quoting Simply_Janeen:

Well Veronica, I don't believe in hell (or heaven for that matter) nor do I have any fear of hell. In fact, it was realizing that that took me more down the path to declaring myself an atheist. Before that, it was realizing I did not have faith in god.

You may find this an interesting read. It was written in our local paper not too long ago:


Quote:


THE PROBLEM WITH RELIGION


One of the many difficulties with the world’s religions is that each believes itself to be correct, and all the others to be wrong. Each religion holds critical beliefs that are utterly incompatible with the others. How do we know which we should believe? If having the wrong ideas leads to eternal suffering, we need to know which ones are right.

There are about 2.2 billion Christians on this planet. In order to be identified as a Christian, one must believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, that He was raised from the dead, and that His death offers eternal salvation to all of Mankind. If one does not accept these basic ideas, he really cannot call himself a Christian. Christians believe the Biblical stories about Jesus to be literal, historical truth. However, Earth contains over 7 billion people, meaning that a large majority does not believe these ideas about Jesus. How can it be that so few have this vital knowledge? Does it make sense that a majority of the world’s people could be condemned to eternal despair, simply due to geography?

There are about 1.6 billion Muslims in the world. They believe that Jesus was a lesser prophet than Mohammed, and that God’s true word is revealed only through Mohammed. Though they believe in essentially the same God, they have very different ideas about how He wants us to live in order to be accepted into heaven.
There are about 13 million Jews in the world, and none of them believes that Jesus Christ was the Son of God, or that his death gives us eternal salvation. They believe he was a false messiah, and that the true messiah has not yet come. Islam, Judaism, and Christianity therefore have irreconcilable, non-negotiable ideas about the divinity of Jesus Christ. They cannot all be right.

There are about 1 billion Hindus on this planet, and they do not believe Jesus was a divine being. Hinduism is one of the oldest religions on the planet, predating all the monotheistic religions by centuries. They believe we are reincarnated to live on Earth over and over again. Hindu belief spans monotheism, polytheism, and atheism, clearly an irresolvable conflict with Christianity, Judaism, and Islam.
There are about 500 million Buddhists in the world, and none of them believes in a personal God. They are, therefore, atheist by definition. They do not believe that humans possess an eternal soul. They believe in reincarnation, which is irreconcilable with the beliefs of the monotheistic majority. Buddhism predates those religions by centuries.

There are about 500 million Taoists and Confucianists in the world, and none of them believes in a personal God or the central ideas of Christianity. They identify with multiple Gods, but believe death is final and irrevocable. Consequently, the idea of salvation has no meaning for them.

There are innumerable other religions, each with their own ideas about our origins and our fate. Does it make sense that something as important as the knowledge of the fate of Mankind would be revealed to only a minority, and that the knowledge is not verifiable, but available only through word of mouth? Any sufficiently advanced society in the world could verify the speed of light and the basic laws of planetary motion. Anthropologists of any culture could discover the fact of evolution in the fossil record. Anyone could derive the Pythagorean Theorem from simpler mathematics. Such concepts, independently verifiable by anyone of any culture or age, are very likely to be true.

The world’s religions, on the other hand, are mutually incompatible with one another. Therefore, they cannot all be correct. However, they can all be wrong. From the dawn of human consciousness, we have sought answers to the big questions of why we are here and where we are going. However, we must remain humble enough to say that we simply do not know. No other answer is supported by evidence, and any claim to specific knowledge will be opposed by a majority of the world’s people. It then comes down to faith.

Where faith is concerned, I agree with the co-founder of the Freedom From Religion Foundation, Dan Barker, when he said, “Faith is a cop-out. It is intellectual bankruptcy. If the only way you can accept an assertion is by faith, then you are conceding that it can’t be taken on its own merits.”

Maria Runde is a member of the Lacrosse Area Freethought Society

Quoting VeronicaTex:

I live in a very large city in Central Texas. There is diversity-I just am not part of it, as I am on the Internet.

My marriage, my career as a teacher to a certain degree, my religion, my interests and my daughter's needs have led me to stay in a "certain circle", which, after having lived in Bolivia when I was 17 and having been in the military stationed in California, Massachusetts and West Berlin, Germany, while the Wall was still up,  is not such a bad thing. 

I am enjoying pure bliss being a Stay At Home Mom, worshipping and living as I please, in a very special way with my family and having an intimate realtionship with God the Father, Jesus the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

I live to be with people of like-spirit, in which before I had no real choice.

I am blessed to have been baptized Catholic.

Catholicism will always be the Religion for me.  

Yes, there are bad apples everywhere,(actually the only ones I ever met were in one parent-run Catholic school, )  but in the Catholic Churches I now attend,  I have been blessed to meet very humble people and now am learning so much more about the faith I will never stray from,  through keeping in touch with EWTN-Eternal Word Television Network-The Catholic Channel.

About believing "that certain way":  I believe the message many times given by Christians/Catholics is misinterpreted.

I believe for the most part all people know what sin is...

Going from that point:  

I believe the message is this:  In a way it is advice to point a person in the right direction, away from an eternity of eternal flames and loneliness) "If you, in general, do not change your ways of living which are between you and your salvation: an eternity in Heaven (I am Roman Catholic/Christian speaking here), you will be choosing where you will spend your eternity."

It will not be in Paradise.

However, there is always time to change....

Veronica-Roman Catholic











That said, again, I personally have nothing against Christmas. I have always loved the holiday and feel something magical within it. And even though I do not believe in a god, I believe in being a good human being and I continue to work at that even though I know I'm not perfect at it.





Janeen

Rational, freethinking, atheist and mom to two hurricanes: Natalie (6) and Isabelle (2).

PeeperSqueak
by on Dec. 6, 2012 at 11:24 PM

No, I haven't met your husband or those that also follow his beliefs. Sure.....they're are many judgemental people that call themselves Christians.........we all sin and fall short.  Why do they hate Christmas ? 

You say you are an athiest yet celebrate Christmas ?  Because your husband ?  Do you enjoy celebrating ?  Why is your husband's celebrating stressful to you ?

If I may.....what is your husband's faith ?

Quoting Simply_Janeen:

WOW, seriously? To that I say you haven't met my husband or others who follow his beliefs. They are some of the most negative and judgmental Christians I have EVER met and they HATE Christmas.

I'm not at all a miserable shopper. I know better than to allow myself to be swept into the insanity. I shop because I want to, not because I have to. I enjoy getting things for my children. When I do anything as far as Christmas goes, it's simple, not overboard. I would do this whether I was an atheist or a Christian. I watched my mother go overboard for years at Christmastime then end up in psych in January because of it so I know better. The Christmas traditions I keep are the ones that are meaningful to ME and I celebrate Christmas as a family tradition, not as a religious requirement (which is why I find my husband's week long holy deal stressful).

Quoting PeeperSqueak:

Interesting.......! thank you for the post : )

After reading this I had a thought and just have to wonder.......are the miserable shoppers at Walmart, Target and any other Department Store and Mall athiest ?  I mean Christmas is a time of sharing peace and love.  I just love Christmas time..........at home anyway.  I shop year round for Christmas.....not only to save some $$ but mainly to avoid mean miserable shoppers that are rude and inconsiderate of those around them. Most athiest I've ever known thru this site and irl are just plain unhappy people .....and it shows.



PeeperSqueak
by on Dec. 6, 2012 at 11:27 PM
2 moms liked this

I don't think the problem is "religion" the problem is people. People sin..........that's why People need the Lord.

Quoting Simply_Janeen:

Uh...I hate to say this but that's kind of the pot calling the kettle black. Hello, the inquisition? The crusades? The wars in Ireland? I think you miss the point as far as the problem with religion goes. The problem is that people who follow a religion cannot just keep it to themselves. They have to force it on everyone else. And this idea that it's the atheists that are doing is um kind of crazy because there's nothing to force on people! Even the bible talks of god telling his people to kill those who don't believe in him. The bible talks numerous times of full-blown genicide.

Quoting VeronicaTex:

What concerns me more than this discussion that you and I are having, is the Religious persecution that is going on as we write. all over the world.

It is horrendous what my Christian brothers and sister have to endure at the hands of others.....

Veronica

Quoting Simply_Janeen:

I'm not trying to get you to change your religious beliefs but am merely pointing out a major concern with religion as a whole. It's one thing to have religious beliefs, it's another thing entirely to try to force them on others. Consider yourself fortunate that you were born in a time and place where your religious beliefs are accepted. That has not always been the case. Religious persecution was a major reason people came to this country to begin with.

Quoting VeronicaTex:

Simply put about the "interesting read":  Despite the world statistics, I am Catholic forever.

My salvation is my own, based on a very deep, very meaningful, very timely relationship with God.

It began when I was baptized and evolved.

As I review my life, all was meant to happen as it did.

Only I can know that...

Veronica

Quoting Simply_Janeen:

Well Veronica, I don't believe in hell (or heaven for that matter) nor do I have any fear of hell. In fact, it was realizing that that took me more down the path to declaring myself an atheist. Before that, it was realizing I did not have faith in god.

You may find this an interesting read. It was written in our local paper not too long ago:


Quote:


THE PROBLEM WITH RELIGION


One of the many difficulties with the world’s religions is that each believes itself to be correct, and all the others to be wrong. Each religion holds critical beliefs that are utterly incompatible with the others. How do we know which we should believe? If having the wrong ideas leads to eternal suffering, we need to know which ones are right.

There are about 2.2 billion Christians on this planet. In order to be identified as a Christian, one must believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, that He was raised from the dead, and that His death offers eternal salvation to all of Mankind. If one does not accept these basic ideas, he really cannot call himself a Christian. Christians believe the Biblical stories about Jesus to be literal, historical truth. However, Earth contains over 7 billion people, meaning that a large majority does not believe these ideas about Jesus. How can it be that so few have this vital knowledge? Does it make sense that a majority of the world’s people could be condemned to eternal despair, simply due to geography?

There are about 1.6 billion Muslims in the world. They believe that Jesus was a lesser prophet than Mohammed, and that God’s true word is revealed only through Mohammed. Though they believe in essentially the same God, they have very different ideas about how He wants us to live in order to be accepted into heaven.
There are about 13 million Jews in the world, and none of them believes that Jesus Christ was the Son of God, or that his death gives us eternal salvation. They believe he was a false messiah, and that the true messiah has not yet come. Islam, Judaism, and Christianity therefore have irreconcilable, non-negotiable ideas about the divinity of Jesus Christ. They cannot all be right.

There are about 1 billion Hindus on this planet, and they do not believe Jesus was a divine being. Hinduism is one of the oldest religions on the planet, predating all the monotheistic religions by centuries. They believe we are reincarnated to live on Earth over and over again. Hindu belief spans monotheism, polytheism, and atheism, clearly an irresolvable conflict with Christianity, Judaism, and Islam.
There are about 500 million Buddhists in the world, and none of them believes in a personal God. They are, therefore, atheist by definition. They do not believe that humans possess an eternal soul. They believe in reincarnation, which is irreconcilable with the beliefs of the monotheistic majority. Buddhism predates those religions by centuries.

There are about 500 million Taoists and Confucianists in the world, and none of them believes in a personal God or the central ideas of Christianity. They identify with multiple Gods, but believe death is final and irrevocable. Consequently, the idea of salvation has no meaning for them.

There are innumerable other religions, each with their own ideas about our origins and our fate. Does it make sense that something as important as the knowledge of the fate of Mankind would be revealed to only a minority, and that the knowledge is not verifiable, but available only through word of mouth? Any sufficiently advanced society in the world could verify the speed of light and the basic laws of planetary motion. Anthropologists of any culture could discover the fact of evolution in the fossil record. Anyone could derive the Pythagorean Theorem from simpler mathematics. Such concepts, independently verifiable by anyone of any culture or age, are very likely to be true.

The world’s religions, on the other hand, are mutually incompatible with one another. Therefore, they cannot all be correct. However, they can all be wrong. From the dawn of human consciousness, we have sought answers to the big questions of why we are here and where we are going. However, we must remain humble enough to say that we simply do not know. No other answer is supported by evidence, and any claim to specific knowledge will be opposed by a majority of the world’s people. It then comes down to faith.

Where faith is concerned, I agree with the co-founder of the Freedom From Religion Foundation, Dan Barker, when he said, “Faith is a cop-out. It is intellectual bankruptcy. If the only way you can accept an assertion is by faith, then you are conceding that it can’t be taken on its own merits.”

Maria Runde is a member of the Lacrosse Area Freethought Society

Quoting VeronicaTex:

I live in a very large city in Central Texas. There is diversity-I just am not part of it, as I am on the Internet.

My marriage, my career as a teacher to a certain degree, my religion, my interests and my daughter's needs have led me to stay in a "certain circle", which, after having lived in Bolivia when I was 17 and having been in the military stationed in California, Massachusetts and West Berlin, Germany, while the Wall was still up,  is not such a bad thing. 

I am enjoying pure bliss being a Stay At Home Mom, worshipping and living as I please, in a very special way with my family and having an intimate realtionship with God the Father, Jesus the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

I live to be with people of like-spirit, in which before I had no real choice.

I am blessed to have been baptized Catholic.

Catholicism will always be the Religion for me.  

Yes, there are bad apples everywhere,(actually the only ones I ever met were in one parent-run Catholic school, )  but in the Catholic Churches I now attend,  I have been blessed to meet very humble people and now am learning so much more about the faith I will never stray from,  through keeping in touch with EWTN-Eternal Word Television Network-The Catholic Channel.

About believing "that certain way":  I believe the message many times given by Christians/Catholics is misinterpreted.

I believe for the most part all people know what sin is...

Going from that point:  

I believe the message is this:  In a way it is advice to point a person in the right direction, away from an eternity of eternal flames and loneliness) "If you, in general, do not change your ways of living which are between you and your salvation: an eternity in Heaven (I am Roman Catholic/Christian speaking here), you will be choosing where you will spend your eternity."

It will not be in Paradise.

However, there is always time to change....

Veronica-Roman Catholic











That said, again, I personally have nothing against Christmas. I have always loved the holiday and feel something magical within it. And even though I do not believe in a god, I believe in being a good human being and I continue to work at that even though I know I'm not perfect at it.






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