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I laughed but in it's own way it is true.

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by on Dec. 28, 2012 at 10:17 AM
Replies (11-20):
JakeandEmmasMom
by Gold Member on Dec. 28, 2012 at 6:29 PM
It's a tough question, isn't it?

It's similar to the age old question of: What should we strive for? Equality of opportunity, or equality of outcome?


Quoting Erinelizz:

Well, the stadium certainly divided them evenly in the first picture, but whether even=fair depends on your own personal beliefs about fairness in this situation:



is it fair that everyone is given exactly the same so the "giving" is fair?



or is it fair that everyone is given exactly what they need so the "outcome" is fair?



One sounds economically fair, the other sounds morally fair.




Quoting JakeandEmmasMom:

 



Quoting Erinelizz:

Lol, interesting!
But this scenario isn't fair, right? That tall kid probably had to carry his box all the way to the ball field...why should he have to share it with the short kid? Who cares if he didn't actually need the box because he is naturally more privileged (although the box sure made his view extra-spectacular!). The short kid should have just carried two boxes if he wanted to make up for his, uh, shortcomings.


 What if nobody brought the boxes?  What if the boxes were provided by the stadium and the three people were responsible for dividing them up "fairly"?  In that scenario, which picture succeeded in dividing them up fairly?


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blues_pagan
by on Dec. 28, 2012 at 6:32 PM

This is just my opinion but I think that in this situation you see people who are obviously in need of more help than you then you should strive to help them get a head so that they have the opportunity to get to where you on.  Later on that same person should pay it forward.  

Granted this is just la la land.  I know it will never happen.

Quoting JakeandEmmasMom:

It's a tough question, isn't it?

It's similar to the age old question of: What should we strive for? Equality of opportunity, or equality of outcome?


Quoting Erinelizz:

Well, the stadium certainly divided them evenly in the first picture, but whether even=fair depends on your own personal beliefs about fairness in this situation:



is it fair that everyone is given exactly the same so the "giving" is fair?



or is it fair that everyone is given exactly what they need so the "outcome" is fair?



One sounds economically fair, the other sounds morally fair.




Quoting JakeandEmmasMom:

 



Quoting Erinelizz:

Lol, interesting!
But this scenario isn't fair, right? That tall kid probably had to carry his box all the way to the ball field...why should he have to share it with the short kid? Who cares if he didn't actually need the box because he is naturally more privileged (although the box sure made his view extra-spectacular!). The short kid should have just carried two boxes if he wanted to make up for his, uh, shortcomings.


 What if nobody brought the boxes?  What if the boxes were provided by the stadium and the three people were responsible for dividing them up "fairly"?  In that scenario, which picture succeeded in dividing them up fairly?



JakeandEmmasMom
by Gold Member on Dec. 28, 2012 at 6:46 PM
1 mom liked this
I agree. I imagine that this is how most of us actually live our lives and how we teach our kids to be. I find it interesting that there is a disconnect with how some of us tend to vote. KWIM?

Quoting blues_pagan:

This is just my opinion but I think that in this situation you see people who are obviously in need of more help than you then you should strive to help them get a head so that they have the opportunity to get to where you on.  Later on that same person should pay it forward.  

Granted this is just la la land.  I know it will never happen.

Quoting JakeandEmmasMom:

It's a tough question, isn't it?



It's similar to the age old question of: What should we strive for? Equality of opportunity, or equality of outcome?




Quoting Erinelizz:

Well, the stadium certainly divided them evenly in the first picture, but whether even=fair depends on your own personal beliefs about fairness in this situation:





is it fair that everyone is given exactly the same so the "giving" is fair?





or is it fair that everyone is given exactly what they need so the "outcome" is fair?





One sounds economically fair, the other sounds morally fair.







Quoting JakeandEmmasMom:

 




Quoting Erinelizz:

Lol, interesting!
But this scenario isn't fair, right? That tall kid probably had to carry his box all the way to the ball field...why should he have to share it with the short kid? Who cares if he didn't actually need the box because he is naturally more privileged (although the box sure made his view extra-spectacular!). The short kid should have just carried two boxes if he wanted to make up for his, uh, shortcomings.



 What if nobody brought the boxes?  What if the boxes were provided by the stadium and the three people were responsible for dividing them up "fairly"?  In that scenario, which picture succeeded in dividing them up fairly?




Posted on CafeMom Mobile
Sisteract
by Socialist Hippie on Dec. 28, 2012 at 6:57 PM
3 moms liked this

ITA- and it has nothing to do with fairness. It has to do with being a decent human being. If you saw someone struggling to open a door because their arms were full of packages (or because they had no arms), would you push by them to get inside first (because you have arms or fewer packages and hey, life isn't fair), or would you lend a hand, take some of the packages or hold the door open? You start out small and it becomes a way of life-


Many can not see beyond themselves- it is frightening.

Quoting JakeandEmmasMom:

I agree. I imagine that this is how most of us actually live our lives and how we teach our kids to be. I find it interesting that there is a disconnect with how some of us tend to vote. KWIM?

Quoting blues_pagan:

This is just my opinion but I think that in this situation you see people who are obviously in need of more help than you then you should strive to help them get a head so that they have the opportunity to get to where you on.  Later on that same person should pay it forward.  

Granted this is just la la land.  I know it will never happen.

Quoting JakeandEmmasMom:

It's a tough question, isn't it?



It's similar to the age old question of: What should we strive for? Equality of opportunity, or equality of outcome?




Quoting Erinelizz:

Well, the stadium certainly divided them evenly in the first picture, but whether even=fair depends on your own personal beliefs about fairness in this situation:





is it fair that everyone is given exactly the same so the "giving" is fair?





or is it fair that everyone is given exactly what they need so the "outcome" is fair?





One sounds economically fair, the other sounds morally fair.







Quoting JakeandEmmasMom:

 




Quoting Erinelizz:

Lol, interesting!
But this scenario isn't fair, right? That tall kid probably had to carry his box all the way to the ball field...why should he have to share it with the short kid? Who cares if he didn't actually need the box because he is naturally more privileged (although the box sure made his view extra-spectacular!). The short kid should have just carried two boxes if he wanted to make up for his, uh, shortcomings.



 What if nobody brought the boxes?  What if the boxes were provided by the stadium and the three people were responsible for dividing them up "fairly"?  In that scenario, which picture succeeded in dividing them up fairly?





Erinelizz
by Bronze Member on Dec. 28, 2012 at 7:25 PM
2 moms liked this
Tough question indeed! And the truth is, in order to accomplish either goal (equal opportunity or equal outcome) some of us may need a helping hand along the way.


Quoting JakeandEmmasMom:

It's a tough question, isn't it?



It's similar to the age old question of: What should we strive for? Equality of opportunity, or equality of outcome?




Quoting Erinelizz:

Well, the stadium certainly divided them evenly in the first picture, but whether even=fair depends on your own personal beliefs about fairness in this situation:





is it fair that everyone is given exactly the same so the "giving" is fair?





or is it fair that everyone is given exactly what they need so the "outcome" is fair?





One sounds economically fair, the other sounds morally fair.






Quoting JakeandEmmasMom:

 




Quoting Erinelizz:

Lol, interesting!
But this scenario isn't fair, right? That tall kid probably had to carry his box all the way to the ball field...why should he have to share it with the short kid? Who cares if he didn't actually need the box because he is naturally more privileged (although the box sure made his view extra-spectacular!). The short kid should have just carried two boxes if he wanted to make up for his, uh, shortcomings.



 What if nobody brought the boxes?  What if the boxes were provided by the stadium and the three people were responsible for dividing them up "fairly"?  In that scenario, which picture succeeded in dividing them up fairly?



Posted on the NEW CafeMom Mobile
Sisteract
by Socialist Hippie on Dec. 28, 2012 at 7:29 PM
2 moms liked this

I would go one step further and say MOST will need a helping hand ( does not necessarily mean money) somewhere along the journey.

Quoting Erinelizz:

Tough question indeed! And the truth is, in order to accomplish either goal (equal opportunity or equal outcome) some of us may need a helping hand along the way.


Quoting JakeandEmmasMom:

It's a tough question, isn't it?



It's similar to the age old question of: What should we strive for? Equality of opportunity, or equality of outcome?




Quoting Erinelizz:

Well, the stadium certainly divided them evenly in the first picture, but whether even=fair depends on your own personal beliefs about fairness in this situation:





is it fair that everyone is given exactly the same so the "giving" is fair?





or is it fair that everyone is given exactly what they need so the "outcome" is fair?





One sounds economically fair, the other sounds morally fair.






Quoting JakeandEmmasMom:

 




Quoting Erinelizz:

Lol, interesting!
But this scenario isn't fair, right? That tall kid probably had to carry his box all the way to the ball field...why should he have to share it with the short kid? Who cares if he didn't actually need the box because he is naturally more privileged (although the box sure made his view extra-spectacular!). The short kid should have just carried two boxes if he wanted to make up for his, uh, shortcomings.



 What if nobody brought the boxes?  What if the boxes were provided by the stadium and the three people were responsible for dividing them up "fairly"?  In that scenario, which picture succeeded in dividing them up fairly?




JakeandEmmasMom
by Gold Member on Dec. 28, 2012 at 9:08 PM
Yep. Even if it is just through networking, I would go out on a limb and say that everyone has someone they look back on and say, "I wouldn't be where I am today without so and so."

Quoting Sisteract:

I would go one step further and say MOST will need a helping hand ( does not necessarily mean money) somewhere along the journey.

Quoting Erinelizz:

Tough question indeed! And the truth is, in order to accomplish either goal (equal opportunity or equal outcome) some of us may need a helping hand along the way.





Quoting JakeandEmmasMom:

It's a tough question, isn't it?





It's similar to the age old question of: What should we strive for? Equality of opportunity, or equality of outcome?






Quoting Erinelizz:

Well, the stadium certainly divided them evenly in the first picture, but whether even=fair depends on your own personal beliefs about fairness in this situation:







is it fair that everyone is given exactly the same so the "giving" is fair?







or is it fair that everyone is given exactly what they need so the "outcome" is fair?







One sounds economically fair, the other sounds morally fair.









Quoting JakeandEmmasMom:

 





Quoting Erinelizz:

Lol, interesting!
But this scenario isn't fair, right? That tall kid probably had to carry his box all the way to the ball field...why should he have to share it with the short kid? Who cares if he didn't actually need the box because he is naturally more privileged (although the box sure made his view extra-spectacular!). The short kid should have just carried two boxes if he wanted to make up for his, uh, shortcomings.




 What if nobody brought the boxes?  What if the boxes were provided by the stadium and the three people were responsible for dividing them up "fairly"?  In that scenario, which picture succeeded in dividing them up fairly?






Posted on CafeMom Mobile
romalove
by SenseandSensibility on Dec. 28, 2012 at 10:18 PM
1 mom liked this


Quoting JakeandEmmasMom:

It's a tough question, isn't it?

It's similar to the age old question of: What should we strive for? Equality of opportunity, or equality of outcome?


Quoting Erinelizz:

Well, the stadium certainly divided them evenly in the first picture, but whether even=fair depends on your own personal beliefs about fairness in this situation:



is it fair that everyone is given exactly the same so the "giving" is fair?



or is it fair that everyone is given exactly what they need so the "outcome" is fair?



One sounds economically fair, the other sounds morally fair.




Quoting JakeandEmmasMom:

 



Quoting Erinelizz:

Lol, interesting!
But this scenario isn't fair, right? That tall kid probably had to carry his box all the way to the ball field...why should he have to share it with the short kid? Who cares if he didn't actually need the box because he is naturally more privileged (although the box sure made his view extra-spectacular!). The short kid should have just carried two boxes if he wanted to make up for his, uh, shortcomings.


 What if nobody brought the boxes?  What if the boxes were provided by the stadium and the three people were responsible for dividing them up "fairly"?  In that scenario, which picture succeeded in dividing them up fairly?


For me that's an easy question.

We should strive for equality of opportunity.

Unfortunately, that's way harder than trying to make equality of outcome, which is why so much of what we do is aimed in that direction.

doomshroom
by Member on Dec. 28, 2012 at 10:31 PM
Bump!

I think this is going to spark some really interesting conversation.
Posted on the NEW CafeMom Mobile
Friday
by Platinum Member on Dec. 28, 2012 at 10:41 PM


Quoting Sisteract:

What I think is funny is that many conservatives (especially those who love to fly the religious banner) think that they ARE just, moral and kind. 


Quoting romalove:


Quoting blues_pagan:

You know I was thinking the same thing at first.  And then I realized that the moral thing is to help people who are smaller and less priveledged than you.  

Quoting Erinelizz:

Lol, interesting!
But this scenario isn't fair, right? That tall kid probably had to carry his box all the way to the ball field...why should he have to share it with the short kid? Who cares if he didn't actually need the box because he is naturally more privileged (although the box sure made his view extra-spectacular!). The short kid should have just carried two boxes if he wanted to make up for his, uh, shortcomings.


My comment on this comment is, while I personally think that is the kind and moral thing to do, it's one thing to hope people will be kind and moral and another thing to legislate it.  I think when you legislate it, it doesn't allow people the chance to actually help one another, but instead to resent one another.


I  missed the part of the Bible that said trolling to piss of Liberals, for kicks, is good, moral or kind but lots of Cons here like to do that. I guess the nuns at the Catholic school I went to used a different Bible.

 


Thank God......it's Friday!!!

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