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News & Politics News & Politics

Are Non-Christians Patriotic?

Posted by   + Show Post

 

Poll

Question: Are atheists and other non-Christians capable of patriotism?

Options:

No

Yes

God believers who are non Christians yes, atheists no

Atheists yes, non-Christian God believers no

Other


Only group members can vote in this poll.

Total Votes: 66

View Results

I'm curious.  I see things that make me wonder how atheists and other non-Christians are viewed.

You don't have to post if you don't want to, but you are welcome to explain your position if you'd like.  The poll of course allows you to answer anonymously.  :-)

by on Jan. 9, 2013 at 7:58 PM
Replies (131-140):
Pema_Jampa
by Celeste on Jan. 10, 2013 at 12:44 PM
1 mom liked this

BTW my lo saw your siggy and asked who that was. I told her that was an angel in heaven. She smiled and said angel. ;-)

Quoting Peanutx3:

Tolerance is a good thing and needed.  There really is a time, place, and manner for letting another christian know when they are not displaying good fruits.

Quoting Pema_Jampa:

Tolerance is a good thing. 

Quoting littlemoments99:

They could be being more tolerant which is not really good.

Quoting romalove:


Quoting littlemoments99:

You see that I clearly stand up for the Bible and it's teachings. Yes I do. And I know people hate that.

Quoting romalove:


Quoting littlemoments99:

Yes. Only God can judge, but if you see other people's fruit and you see it's not good you are supposed to be a disciple of Christ by bringing them the gospel. I don't have to worry about my salvation anymore because I know I am going to Heaven. Blessed assurace.

Quoting Pema_Jampa:

It is said only God can judge. So maybe you might want to worry about your own salvation and what kind of Christian you can be and not worry about others and their "brand" of Christianity. 

Quoting littlemoments99:

There is such a thing as pretending. I have heard many testamonies about people who have pretended to be Christian and of people who thought they were Christian and then realized that they were not saved. There is a difference between pretending to be Christian or not following all of what God says (even on accident) and being truly saved. It's black and white. You either are saved or you're not.

Quoting Peanutx3:

Here we go with the "true Christian" crap.  I wanted to use a nicer word but really it is just crap. 

Quoting littlemoments99:

If you are a true Christian person you will naturally love your country. God tells us to love. God is loving. He does not specifically say to love your country, but he does say to love your neighbor and that it comes right after loving God. If we are mean or rude to our neighbors we are being mean and rude to God because everyone was created in God's image.

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’a]">[a]A)"> 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’b]">[b]

It's a Christian attribute to love your country. It's something everyone is born with. Most people love their country because it's their home.

It is kind of difficult to describe this over the internet.

Quoting Clairwil:

Quoting littlemoments99:

God is not about patriatism. He wants you to be true to your country. That is a Christian attribute to be loyal and have great love for your country. But God also says you should never love your country more than God. If our country jumped ship and became this awful country that hated God and didn't let me praise Him, like some middle east countries, I would not like America. Luckily, we live in a wonderful country that allows me to worship God and I feel so blessed to live in the greatest country in the world. 

Where in the Bible does it say that God wants you to love your country or be loyal to it?






Oh irony, as we all can see your own fruits through your writings.....


No.

There are many in here who are good Christians who speak up for the Bible and its teachings, and live those teachings, yet are not seen in the same light that you are.

Why do you think that is?





littlemoments99
by on Jan. 10, 2013 at 12:44 PM

Not according to the Bible.

Quoting Pema_Jampa:

Tolerance is a good thing. 

Quoting littlemoments99:

They could be being more tolerant which is not really good.

Quoting romalove:


Quoting littlemoments99:

You see that I clearly stand up for the Bible and it's teachings. Yes I do. And I know people hate that.

Quoting romalove:


Quoting littlemoments99:

Yes. Only God can judge, but if you see other people's fruit and you see it's not good you are supposed to be a disciple of Christ by bringing them the gospel. I don't have to worry about my salvation anymore because I know I am going to Heaven. Blessed assurace.

Quoting Pema_Jampa:

It is said only God can judge. So maybe you might want to worry about your own salvation and what kind of Christian you can be and not worry about others and their "brand" of Christianity. 

Quoting littlemoments99:

There is such a thing as pretending. I have heard many testamonies about people who have pretended to be Christian and of people who thought they were Christian and then realized that they were not saved. There is a difference between pretending to be Christian or not following all of what God says (even on accident) and being truly saved. It's black and white. You either are saved or you're not.

Quoting Peanutx3:

Here we go with the "true Christian" crap.  I wanted to use a nicer word but really it is just crap. 

Quoting littlemoments99:

If you are a true Christian person you will naturally love your country. God tells us to love. God is loving. He does not specifically say to love your country, but he does say to love your neighbor and that it comes right after loving God. If we are mean or rude to our neighbors we are being mean and rude to God because everyone was created in God's image.

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’a]">[a]A)"> 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’b]">[b]

It's a Christian attribute to love your country. It's something everyone is born with. Most people love their country because it's their home.

It is kind of difficult to describe this over the internet.

Quoting Clairwil:

Quoting littlemoments99:

God is not about patriatism. He wants you to be true to your country. That is a Christian attribute to be loyal and have great love for your country. But God also says you should never love your country more than God. If our country jumped ship and became this awful country that hated God and didn't let me praise Him, like some middle east countries, I would not like America. Luckily, we live in a wonderful country that allows me to worship God and I feel so blessed to live in the greatest country in the world. 

Where in the Bible does it say that God wants you to love your country or be loyal to it?

 


 


 

Oh irony, as we all can see your own fruits through your writings.....

 

No.

There are many in here who are good Christians who speak up for the Bible and its teachings, and live those teachings, yet are not seen in the same light that you are.

Why do you think that is?

 



Peanutx3
by Silver Member on Jan. 10, 2013 at 12:46 PM
2 moms liked this

He is my angel.  God I miss him. 

Quoting Pema_Jampa:

BTW my lo saw your siggy and asked who that was. I told her that was an angel in heaven. She smiled and said angel. ;-)

Quoting Peanutx3:






Pema_Jampa
by Celeste on Jan. 10, 2013 at 12:46 PM
1 mom liked this

I don't live my life according to the bible. Being tolerant of others is a more loving and peaceful way of living one's life. You can choose to be intolerant but be sure that people will call you out on that intolerance. 

Quoting littlemoments99:

Not according to the Bible.

Quoting Pema_Jampa:

Tolerance is a good thing. 

Quoting littlemoments99:

They could be being more tolerant which is not really good.

Quoting romalove:


Quoting littlemoments99:

You see that I clearly stand up for the Bible and it's teachings. Yes I do. And I know people hate that.

Quoting romalove:


Quoting littlemoments99:

Yes. Only God can judge, but if you see other people's fruit and you see it's not good you are supposed to be a disciple of Christ by bringing them the gospel. I don't have to worry about my salvation anymore because I know I am going to Heaven. Blessed assurace.

Quoting Pema_Jampa:

It is said only God can judge. So maybe you might want to worry about your own salvation and what kind of Christian you can be and not worry about others and their "brand" of Christianity. 

Quoting littlemoments99:

There is such a thing as pretending. I have heard many testamonies about people who have pretended to be Christian and of people who thought they were Christian and then realized that they were not saved. There is a difference between pretending to be Christian or not following all of what God says (even on accident) and being truly saved. It's black and white. You either are saved or you're not.

Quoting Peanutx3:

Here we go with the "true Christian" crap.  I wanted to use a nicer word but really it is just crap. 

Quoting littlemoments99:

If you are a true Christian person you will naturally love your country. God tells us to love. God is loving. He does not specifically say to love your country, but he does say to love your neighbor and that it comes right after loving God. If we are mean or rude to our neighbors we are being mean and rude to God because everyone was created in God's image.

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’a]">[a]A)"> 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’b]">[b]

It's a Christian attribute to love your country. It's something everyone is born with. Most people love their country because it's their home.

It is kind of difficult to describe this over the internet.

Quoting Clairwil:

Quoting littlemoments99:

God is not about patriatism. He wants you to be true to your country. That is a Christian attribute to be loyal and have great love for your country. But God also says you should never love your country more than God. If our country jumped ship and became this awful country that hated God and didn't let me praise Him, like some middle east countries, I would not like America. Luckily, we live in a wonderful country that allows me to worship God and I feel so blessed to live in the greatest country in the world. 

Where in the Bible does it say that God wants you to love your country or be loyal to it?






Oh irony, as we all can see your own fruits through your writings.....


No.

There are many in here who are good Christians who speak up for the Bible and its teachings, and live those teachings, yet are not seen in the same light that you are.

Why do you think that is?





rccmom
by Gold Member on Jan. 10, 2013 at 12:52 PM

So they have to exhibit the fruit of the Spirit, but also that is not enough. They must meet other qualifications. Again, it gets very murky then for a non Christian to keep up with who are the true Christians, and who are not.

That, being said, I am a Christian and I admire your sincerity though I may not agree with all you say. So if I ask a question sometimes that offends you, please forgive me. That would not be my intent. I just like to ask questions to understand different perspectives.

Quoting littlemoments99:

There are people like that. For example (I will probably get yelled at for this too) I do not believe that Mormons are Christians. It kills me because I love so many Mormon people. They do not have the same beliefs as Christians about things they should agree with. For example, I am pretty sure they believe that Satan and Jesus were brothers. Here is a link of why they are not Christian. http://carm.org/mormon-beliefs

I know a few mormons and when I was a teenager I actually wanted to be a Mormon and got the Book of Mormon. It was difficult to read though and I understood nothing so I lost curiosity. Being a lazy teenager I guess.  :)  All the Mormon people I know are super sweet, amazing people. They are just not saved. They are the best example of people who have the fruuits of Christians but are not.

Quoting rccmom:

I agree with some of what you say. So what about someone of a different faith that exhibits those fruits? They are patient, kind, not self-serving and with a genuine love of their neighbors. How do they fit in?

Quoting littlemoments99:

You normally can tell if someone is a Christian or not. The Bible says to look at their fruit. There is a lady in my apartment complex who has the fish symbol on her car and a Bible verse, but she is not very nice. She is just always crabby and not a happy person. I do wonder and worry about her because that's not the fruit of a Christian. Christian people should try not to be crabby and should always try to be nice to everyone. We do make mistakes, that's our sin nature, but we should be trying to be more and more Christ like everyday. There are some people who just don't ever change even if they say they are Christian.

These people may very well be saved but maybe just are in the beginning stages of being a Christian. When you are first saved many people stop growing until they grow a love for the Bible and God's word. Once someone begins to read God's word more regularly you can start to see the fruit clearly because the Bible tells us how to live. So when I say true Christian, I usually mean someone who is saved and shows the fruits of living a Christ like life. That does not define everyone who may be saved, but I know there are people who were saved as 5 year olds and then turn away from God in their early adult years. But they don't have the fruit because they don't want God in their life and have turned from him. It's hard to explain but I have tried explaining what I mean when I say true Christian.

Quoting Peanutx3:

That is all fine and dandy but for us as Christians to say whether someone is a true christian or not is not our place and it is just down right rude.  We all make mistakes and sin as Christians so you (general you) can't know for sure who is a "true Christian" and who isn't.  This is why I despise that phrase.

Quoting littlemoments99:

There is such a thing as pretending. I have heard many testamonies about people who have pretended to be Christian and of people who thought they were Christian and then realized that they were not saved. There is a difference between pretending to be Christian or not following all of what God says (even on accident) and being truly saved. It's black and white. You either are saved or you're not.

Quoting Peanutx3:

Here we go with the "true Christian" crap.  I wanted to use a nicer word but really it is just crap. 

Quoting littlemoments99:

If you are a true Christian person you will naturally love your country. God tells us to love. God is loving. He does not specifically say to love your country, but he does say to love your neighbor and that it comes right after loving God. If we are mean or rude to our neighbors we are being mean and rude to God because everyone was created in God's image.

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’a]">[a]A)"> 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’b]">[b]

It's a Christian attribute to love your country. It's something everyone is born with. Most people love their country because it's their home.

It is kind of difficult to describe this over the internet.






Peanutx3
by Silver Member on Jan. 10, 2013 at 12:52 PM
2 moms liked this

How is tolerance a bad thing?  You can be tolerant but still not agree with a person's choices.  I as a Christian choose to be tolerant because it is the right thing to do.  I don't have to agree with a persons behavior but I can be tolerant.

Quoting littlemoments99:

Not according to the Bible.

Quoting Pema_Jampa:

Tolerance is a good thing. 

Quoting littlemoments99:

They could be being more tolerant which is not really good.

Quoting romalove:


Quoting littlemoments99:

You see that I clearly stand up for the Bible and it's teachings. Yes I do. And I know people hate that.

Quoting romalove:


Quoting littlemoments99:

Yes. Only God can judge, but if you see other people's fruit and you see it's not good you are supposed to be a disciple of Christ by bringing them the gospel. I don't have to worry about my salvation anymore because I know I am going to Heaven. Blessed assurace.

Quoting Pema_Jampa:

It is said only God can judge. So maybe you might want to worry about your own salvation and what kind of Christian you can be and not worry about others and their "brand" of Christianity. 

Quoting littlemoments99:

There is such a thing as pretending. I have heard many testamonies about people who have pretended to be Christian and of people who thought they were Christian and then realized that they were not saved. There is a difference between pretending to be Christian or not following all of what God says (even on accident) and being truly saved. It's black and white. You either are saved or you're not.

Quoting Peanutx3:

Here we go with the "true Christian" crap.  I wanted to use a nicer word but really it is just crap. 

Quoting littlemoments99:

If you are a true Christian person you will naturally love your country. God tells us to love. God is loving. He does not specifically say to love your country, but he does say to love your neighbor and that it comes right after loving God. If we are mean or rude to our neighbors we are being mean and rude to God because everyone was created in God's image.

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’a]">[a]A)"> 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’b]">[b]

It's a Christian attribute to love your country. It's something everyone is born with. Most people love their country because it's their home.

It is kind of difficult to describe this over the internet.

Quoting Clairwil:

Quoting littlemoments99:

God is not about patriatism. He wants you to be true to your country. That is a Christian attribute to be loyal and have great love for your country. But God also says you should never love your country more than God. If our country jumped ship and became this awful country that hated God and didn't let me praise Him, like some middle east countries, I would not like America. Luckily, we live in a wonderful country that allows me to worship God and I feel so blessed to live in the greatest country in the world. 

Where in the Bible does it say that God wants you to love your country or be loyal to it?






Oh irony, as we all can see your own fruits through your writings.....


No.

There are many in here who are good Christians who speak up for the Bible and its teachings, and live those teachings, yet are not seen in the same light that you are.

Why do you think that is?





littlemoments99
by on Jan. 10, 2013 at 12:54 PM
1 mom liked this

Well, I wouldn't know because I don't know which posts you are refering to. I do know that almost everyone in my church has been talked to like you talk to me. Say I am not being a good Christian. I have talked to people who say they have been called every name in the book, including names like arrogant, ignorant, rude, judging. You can't shake me. I stand strongly on the rock and am never discouraged or scared because God is with me in everything I do and everywhere I go.

Quoting romalove:


Quoting littlemoments99:

They could be being more tolerant which is not really good.

Quoting romalove:


Quoting littlemoments99:

You see that I clearly stand up for the Bible and it's teachings. Yes I do. And I know people hate that.

Quoting romalove:


Quoting littlemoments99:

Yes. Only God can judge, but if you see other people's fruit and you see it's not good you are supposed to be a disciple of Christ by bringing them the gospel. I don't have to worry about my salvation anymore because I know I am going to Heaven. Blessed assurace.

Quoting Pema_Jampa:

It is said only God can judge. So maybe you might want to worry about your own salvation and what kind of Christian you can be and not worry about others and their "brand" of Christianity. 

Quoting littlemoments99:

There is such a thing as pretending. I have heard many testamonies about people who have pretended to be Christian and of people who thought they were Christian and then realized that they were not saved. There is a difference between pretending to be Christian or not following all of what God says (even on accident) and being truly saved. It's black and white. You either are saved or you're not.

Quoting Peanutx3:

Here we go with the "true Christian" crap.  I wanted to use a nicer word but really it is just crap. 

Quoting littlemoments99:

If you are a true Christian person you will naturally love your country. God tells us to love. God is loving. He does not specifically say to love your country, but he does say to love your neighbor and that it comes right after loving God. If we are mean or rude to our neighbors we are being mean and rude to God because everyone was created in God's image.

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’a]">[a]A)"> 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’b]">[b]

It's a Christian attribute to love your country. It's something everyone is born with. Most people love their country because it's their home.

It is kind of difficult to describe this over the internet.

Quoting Clairwil:

Quoting littlemoments99:

God is not about patriatism. He wants you to be true to your country. That is a Christian attribute to be loyal and have great love for your country. But God also says you should never love your country more than God. If our country jumped ship and became this awful country that hated God and didn't let me praise Him, like some middle east countries, I would not like America. Luckily, we live in a wonderful country that allows me to worship God and I feel so blessed to live in the greatest country in the world. 

Where in the Bible does it say that God wants you to love your country or be loyal to it?

 


 


 

Oh irony, as we all can see your own fruits through your writings.....

 

No.

There are many in here who are good Christians who speak up for the Bible and its teachings, and live those teachings, yet are not seen in the same light that you are.

Why do you think that is?

 

They could be acting as Jesus might have wanted them to, with kindness and compassion, and with an eye towards bringing people to the faith and not running away from it.


romalove
by SenseandSensibility on Jan. 10, 2013 at 12:56 PM
1 mom liked this


Quoting littlemoments99:

Well, I wouldn't know because I don't know which posts you are refering to. I do know that almost everyone in my church has been talked to like you talk to me. Say I am not being a good Christian. I have talked to people who say they have been called every name in the book, including names like arrogant, ignorant, rude, judging. You can't shake me. I stand strongly on the rock and am never discouraged or scared because God is with me in everything I do and everywhere I go.

Quoting romalove:


Quoting littlemoments99:

They could be being more tolerant which is not really good.

Quoting romalove:


Quoting littlemoments99:

You see that I clearly stand up for the Bible and it's teachings. Yes I do. And I know people hate that.

Quoting romalove:


Quoting littlemoments99:

Yes. Only God can judge, but if you see other people's fruit and you see it's not good you are supposed to be a disciple of Christ by bringing them the gospel. I don't have to worry about my salvation anymore because I know I am going to Heaven. Blessed assurace.

Quoting Pema_Jampa:

It is said only God can judge. So maybe you might want to worry about your own salvation and what kind of Christian you can be and not worry about others and their "brand" of Christianity. 

Quoting littlemoments99:

There is such a thing as pretending. I have heard many testamonies about people who have pretended to be Christian and of people who thought they were Christian and then realized that they were not saved. There is a difference between pretending to be Christian or not following all of what God says (even on accident) and being truly saved. It's black and white. You either are saved or you're not.

Quoting Peanutx3:

Here we go with the "true Christian" crap.  I wanted to use a nicer word but really it is just crap. 

Quoting littlemoments99:

If you are a true Christian person you will naturally love your country. God tells us to love. God is loving. He does not specifically say to love your country, but he does say to love your neighbor and that it comes right after loving God. If we are mean or rude to our neighbors we are being mean and rude to God because everyone was created in God's image.

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’a]">[a]A)"> 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’b]">[b]

It's a Christian attribute to love your country. It's something everyone is born with. Most people love their country because it's their home.

It is kind of difficult to describe this over the internet.

Quoting Clairwil:

Quoting littlemoments99:

God is not about patriatism. He wants you to be true to your country. That is a Christian attribute to be loyal and have great love for your country. But God also says you should never love your country more than God. If our country jumped ship and became this awful country that hated God and didn't let me praise Him, like some middle east countries, I would not like America. Luckily, we live in a wonderful country that allows me to worship God and I feel so blessed to live in the greatest country in the world. 

Where in the Bible does it say that God wants you to love your country or be loyal to it?






Oh irony, as we all can see your own fruits through your writings.....


No.

There are many in here who are good Christians who speak up for the Bible and its teachings, and live those teachings, yet are not seen in the same light that you are.

Why do you think that is?


They could be acting as Jesus might have wanted them to, with kindness and compassion, and with an eye towards bringing people to the faith and not running away from it.


Huh?

You are the one professing intolerance, not I.

I haven't spoken to you any way.

You insist on having things seen through your religious light.

The world is bigger than that.

littlemoments99
by on Jan. 10, 2013 at 12:57 PM

Ok. I said I was not an expert. I love this country, this world because God made it. God said the earth was good. I love everything God does because it is all good. Anything bad is this world is sin, it's our fault, not God's. That's why I love our country, our world, my state. My state has an amazing governer right now and so I love it even more. If I lived in say California which seems to have no morals, I would probably not like my state too much. But the only way I can explain it is God made it. God lets things happen, God makes miracles. I love his creation.

Quoting Clairwil:

Quoting littlemoments99:
Quoting Clairwil:
Quoting littlemoments99:
Quoting Clairwil:
Quoting littlemoments99:

God is not about patriatism. He wants you to be true to your country. That is a Christian attribute to be loyal and have great love for your country. But God also says you should never love your country more than God. If our country jumped ship and became this awful country that hated God and didn't let me praise Him, like some middle east countries, I would not like America. Luckily, we live in a wonderful country that allows me to worship God and I feel so blessed to live in the greatest country in the world. 

Where in the Bible does it say that God wants you to love your country or be loyal to it?

If you are a true Christian person you will naturally love your country. God tells us to love. God is loving. He does not specifically say to love your country, but he does say to love your neighbor and that it comes right after loving God. If we are mean or rude to our neighbors we are being mean and rude to God because everyone was created in God's image.

So when Jesus spoke about loving thy neighbour, he was talking about the people who live in the same country as you?  Your neighbours?  Those near you, those like you?   Rather than strange people from foreign lands?

No. He was talking about anyone, but doesn't everyone feel a love for their country.  It's just in human nature.

No, not everyone feels a love for their country.    Some love far smaller units (such as their village).  Some love far larger units (such as Europe, or even the whole planet Earth).    Indeed, the modern concept of a nation state is very different from what an ancient Greek or Babylonian would have understood by it - for them the primary loyalty was to their city.

Why is it human nature to be loyal to the USA, rather than Texas or North America (eg including Canada and Mexico) ?

 

 

Quoting littlemoments99:

I am going to have to ask about this though. I do know that loving your country is good but I am not sure where I can show the proof. Sorry, I don't know everything. I am just starting my degree in Christian Studies. I have not graduated yet and even then I won't know everything.   :)
What is your source of "knowing" that loving a country is good?   If you look at the history of the human race, how many wars have been prosecuted by soldiers who obeyed in the name of patriotism?

 

Clairwil
by Gold Member on Jan. 10, 2013 at 1:02 PM
1 mom liked this
Quoting littlemoments99:

I love our country, our world, my state.

*nods*

But, if that's human nature, then why would anyone think non-Christians wouldn't also love these things?

Do you think non-Christians incapable of love, just because they don't believe they've been ordered to love by your particular supernatural deity?

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