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How to Stop MASS SHOOTINGS

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One of the most articulate (and easy on the eyes) speakers about gun control I've ever heard.

Thoughts, ladies?

by on Jan. 27, 2013 at 2:05 AM
Replies (11-20):
SallyMJ
by Ruby Member on Jan. 27, 2013 at 11:51 AM

Yes, really. The term has a much broader meaning than it seems you think it does.


Quoting Erinelizz:

No, not really. Armed guards at schools do not help keep guns out of the hands of felons. Mental health care does not help us trace the origins of an illegally owned gun. An increased police presence does not make us take a course to improve our ability to safely own and store a gun. These are gun control measures, and they must be given their own attention.

Quoting SallyMJ:

They are all gun control measures, silly!  :)


Quoting Erinelizz:

I got the impression that he might support all of these measures I listed: except gun control measures.



Quoting SallyMJ:

I really don't think this guy is saying these multi-prong approaches shouldn't be followed.

It's hard to remember to say everything. Especially when you are speaking off the top of your head on a video.



Quoting Erinelizz:

I agree with pretty much everything he said, because I really don't support gun bans (I don't think most people do). But does he realize that there have been armed guards at some of these mass shootings and they were not able to stop these massacres? I'm not saying we shouldn't have guards...even Obama asked Congress for increased funding for school security...but that isn't going to stop all the shootings. We need to have guards, and smart gun control, and mental health care, and increased police, and work on socioeconomic factors that lead to crime, and stop glorifying the killers....I could go on. The point is, nothing should be excluded. We need to take many steps and not ignore anything that might help.










Erinelizz
by Bronze Member on Jan. 27, 2013 at 12:00 PM
Obviously all of these measures would help "control guns" in some way, but the measures I'm talking about are the ones that many seem to want to avoid because they think it takes away their rights. I think you know what I mean, so I don't understand this gun control word game. Are you suggesting that by calling some of these measures "gun control", we can ignore the real gun control measures that I'm suggesting could also help?

Quoting SallyMJ:

Yes, really. The term has a much broader meaning than it seems you think it does.



Quoting Erinelizz:

No, not really. Armed guards at schools do not help keep guns out of the hands of felons. Mental health care does not help us trace the origins of an illegally owned gun. An increased police presence does not make us take a course to improve our ability to safely own and store a gun. These are gun control measures, and they must be given their own attention.



Quoting SallyMJ:

They are all gun control measures, silly!  :)



Quoting Erinelizz:

I got the impression that he might support all of these measures I listed: except gun control measures.





Quoting SallyMJ:

I really don't think this guy is saying these multi-prong approaches shouldn't be followed.

It's hard to remember to say everything. Especially when you are speaking off the top of your head on a video.




Quoting Erinelizz:

I agree with pretty much everything he said, because I really don't support gun bans (I don't think most people do). But does he realize that there have been armed guards at some of these mass shootings and they were not able to stop these massacres? I'm not saying we shouldn't have guards...even Obama asked Congress for increased funding for school security...but that isn't going to stop all the shootings. We need to have guards, and smart gun control, and mental health care, and increased police, and work on socioeconomic factors that lead to crime, and stop glorifying the killers....I could go on. The point is, nothing should be excluded. We need to take many steps and not ignore anything that might help.













Posted on the NEW CafeMom Mobile
SallyMJ
by Ruby Member on Jan. 27, 2013 at 12:06 PM

I'm suggesting that you and I have different ideas about gun control that overlap in places. The overlapping parts are the things I believe we should legislate. And, as you said, enforce existing laws.

We need to calibrate the laws to actually solve the problem, not make it worse, because it makes us feel good.

I'm just saying - as this guy does - don't naively pass sweeping laws that actually result in increased gun homicide. Why would we want to do that?

Get laws that actually work - not ones that we think should work.

Quoting Erinelizz:

Obviously all of these measures would help "control guns" in some way, but the measures I'm talking about are the ones that many seem to want to avoid because they think it takes away their rights. I think you know what I mean, so I don't understand this gun control word game. Are you suggesting that by calling some of these measures "gun control", we can ignore the real gun control measures that I'm suggesting could also help?

Quoting SallyMJ:

Yes, really. The term has a much broader meaning than it seems you think it does.



Quoting Erinelizz:

No, not really. Armed guards at schools do not help keep guns out of the hands of felons. Mental health care does not help us trace the origins of an illegally owned gun. An increased police presence does not make us take a course to improve our ability to safely own and store a gun. These are gun control measures, and they must be given their own attention.



Quoting SallyMJ:

They are all gun control measures, silly!  :)



Quoting Erinelizz:

I got the impression that he might support all of these measures I listed: except gun control measures.





Quoting SallyMJ:

I really don't think this guy is saying these multi-prong approaches shouldn't be followed.

It's hard to remember to say everything. Especially when you are speaking off the top of your head on a video.




Quoting Erinelizz:

I agree with pretty much everything he said, because I really don't support gun bans (I don't think most people do). But does he realize that there have been armed guards at some of these mass shootings and they were not able to stop these massacres? I'm not saying we shouldn't have guards...even Obama asked Congress for increased funding for school security...but that isn't going to stop all the shootings. We need to have guards, and smart gun control, and mental health care, and increased police, and work on socioeconomic factors that lead to crime, and stop glorifying the killers....I could go on. The point is, nothing should be excluded. We need to take many steps and not ignore anything that might help.















Erinelizz
by Bronze Member on Jan. 27, 2013 at 12:21 PM
Which gun control laws have increased gun homicides?

Quoting SallyMJ:

I'm suggesting that you and I have different ideas about gun control that overlap in places. The overlapping parts are the things I believe we should legislate. And, as you said, enforce existing laws.

We need to calibrate the laws to actually solve the problem, not make it worse, because it makes us feel good.

I'm just saying - as this guy does - don't naively pass sweeping laws that actually result in increased gun homicide. Why would we want to do that?

Get laws that actually work - not ones that we think should work.


Quoting Erinelizz:

Obviously all of these measures would help "control guns" in some way, but the measures I'm talking about are the ones that many seem to want to avoid because they think it takes away their rights. I think you know what I mean, so I don't understand this gun control word game. Are you suggesting that by calling some of these measures "gun control", we can ignore the real gun control measures that I'm suggesting could also help?



Quoting SallyMJ:

Yes, really. The term has a much broader meaning than it seems you think it does.




Quoting Erinelizz:

No, not really. Armed guards at schools do not help keep guns out of the hands of felons. Mental health care does not help us trace the origins of an illegally owned gun. An increased police presence does not make us take a course to improve our ability to safely own and store a gun. These are gun control measures, and they must be given their own attention.





Quoting SallyMJ:

They are all gun control measures, silly!  :)




Quoting Erinelizz:

I got the impression that he might support all of these measures I listed: except gun control measures.







Quoting SallyMJ:

I really don't think this guy is saying these multi-prong approaches shouldn't be followed.

It's hard to remember to say everything. Especially when you are speaking off the top of your head on a video.





Quoting Erinelizz:

I agree with pretty much everything he said, because I really don't support gun bans (I don't think most people do). But does he realize that there have been armed guards at some of these mass shootings and they were not able to stop these massacres? I'm not saying we shouldn't have guards...even Obama asked Congress for increased funding for school security...but that isn't going to stop all the shootings. We need to have guards, and smart gun control, and mental health care, and increased police, and work on socioeconomic factors that lead to crime, and stop glorifying the killers....I could go on. The point is, nothing should be excluded. We need to take many steps and not ignore anything that might help.



















Posted on the NEW CafeMom Mobile
tnmomofive
by Silver Member on Jan. 27, 2013 at 12:35 PM
2 moms liked this

AMEN! Love it! He is right on the mark in so many ways.

tnmomofive
by Silver Member on Jan. 27, 2013 at 12:41 PM
2 moms liked this

 

Did not take long for this BS to be inserted.When you have no argument try to pin the op as a racist.Disgusting.

Quoting Raintree:

Why do people always call black men 'articulate'?

I never see this applied to a white person speaking. Ever.


 

Raintree
by Silver Member on Jan. 27, 2013 at 12:44 PM

It took you this long to complain without argument. Can you tell me why the word "articulate" is always used for black men?

I know why, I'm wondering if you do.

Quoting tnmomofive:


Did not take long for this BS to be inserted.When you have no argument try to pin the op as a racist.Disgusting.

Quoting Raintree:

Why do people always call black men 'articulate'?

I never see this applied to a white person speaking. Ever.




tnmomofive
by Silver Member on Jan. 27, 2013 at 12:51 PM
1 mom liked this

 Go ask Harry Reid.I am not going to help you derail this thread.Im done. POOF


Quoting Raintree:

It took you this long to complain without argument. Can you tell me why the word "articulate" is always used for black men?

I know why, I'm wondering if you do.

Quoting tnmomofive:

 

Did not take long for this BS to be inserted.When you have no argument try to pin the op as a racist.Disgusting.

Quoting Raintree:

Why do people always call black men 'articulate'?

I never see this applied to a white person speaking. Ever.

 

 



 

Farmlady09
by Silver Member on Jan. 27, 2013 at 1:25 PM
3 moms liked this

 Sally, he is saying what everyone who actually understands the problem ~ and the solution ~ has been saying since this became an issue again, and I agree with him 100%. The problem is that our government (and the liberals/progressives) are not interested in fixing the problem. The problem is that our gov't. and the left only want gun control. As far as I can tell, they don't actually care about stopping mass shootings (and the cynical side of me actually believes they WANT more) because when the initial gun control measures don't stop mass shootings, they have grounds to enact MORE gun control. Anyone who doesn't agree with them get called names, labeled as crazy, etc.

Erinelizz ~ Armed guards won't keep guns out of the hands of felons, but they can shoot and kill (meaning stop) anyone who opens fire in any public place, and there won't be a mass shooting taking place that day.

Mental health care doesn't trace the origins of illegally owned guns, but it absolutely would create a list of people who should not own guns ~ and if that list was a nationwide database, it would at LEAST prevent an unstable person from LEGALLY buying guns, which is something that happens right now. As far as illegally owned guns, criminals have them even in countries that have banned all guns. No law and no amount of banning guns changes criminal activity. There are only two ways to stop criminals ~ prison, or death.

I'll agree that an increased police presence won't make people take gun safety classes ~ but enacting a law that people must do so would. Personally, I think there should be such a law, as well as adding the regular hunter safety course to every school curriculum for children aged 10-12 (which is the age range most states allow young people to start hunting).

"Gun control" will not control criminals. Ever. If you believe that or are pinning your hopes on that, you will be sadly disillusioned sooner rather than later. Criminals don't care. Like it or not, 'you' (whether you like guns, own guns, are terrified of guns, don't want a gun) are the ONLY person who can do squat to actually keep yourself safer. The police can't do so. The government can't do so. All the laws in the world can't do so.

That is the reality, and every argument in favor of gun control crumbles in the face of that reality. Uncle Sammy can't do squat to keep you 'safe' ~ and the sooner people wo/man up and face that, the sooner steps to mitigate the criminal and crazy elements can actually happen.

The other option is to keep supporting a government that wants to take away 'your' Constitutional rights and whimpering pathetically everytime one of the criminals or crazies butchers a bunch of people ~ and blaming those who may own a gun but were no where near the incident. Sorry, but imo that is the true 'crazy' that is the problem ~ and a much larger one than the individual looking to go out in a blaze of glory.


Quoting Erinelizz:

No, not really. Armed guards at schools do not help keep guns out of the hands of felons. Mental health care does not help us trace the origins of an illegally owned gun. An increased police presence does not make us take a course to improve our ability to safely own and store a gun. These are gun control measures, and they must be given their own attention.

Quoting SallyMJ:

They are all gun control measures, silly!  :)


Quoting Erinelizz:

I got the impression that he might support all of these measures I listed: except gun control measures.



Quoting SallyMJ:

I really don't think this guy is saying these multi-prong approaches shouldn't be followed.

It's hard to remember to say everything. Especially when you are speaking off the top of your head on a video.



Quoting Erinelizz:

I agree with pretty much everything he said, because I really don't support gun bans (I don't think most people do). But does he realize that there have been armed guards at some of these mass shootings and they were not able to stop these massacres? I'm not saying we shouldn't have guards...even Obama asked Congress for increased funding for school security...but that isn't going to stop all the shootings. We need to have guards, and smart gun control, and mental health care, and increased police, and work on socioeconomic factors that lead to crime, and stop glorifying the killers....I could go on. The point is, nothing should be excluded. We need to take many steps and not ignore anything that might help.

 



 

 


 


 

SallyMJ
by Ruby Member on Jan. 27, 2013 at 1:27 PM

Excellent response. Thanks for the info.

And thanks for helping me cover the phones. :)

Quoting The-Raven:



Quoting Erinelizz:

Which gun control laws have increased gun homicides?

Quoting SallyMJ:

I'm suggesting that you and I have different ideas about gun control that overlap in places. The overlapping parts are the things I believe we should legislate. And, as you said, enforce existing laws.

We need to calibrate the laws to actually solve the problem, not make it worse, because it makes us feel good.

I'm just saying - as this guy does - don't naively pass sweeping laws that actually result in increased gun homicide. Why would we want to do that?

Get laws that actually work - not ones that we think should work.


Quoting Erinelizz:

Obviously all of these measures would help "control guns" in some way, but the measures I'm talking about are the ones that many seem to want to avoid because they think it takes away their rights. I think you know what I mean, so I don't understand this gun control word game. Are you suggesting that by calling some of these measures "gun control", we can ignore the real gun control measures that I'm suggesting could also help?



Quoting SallyMJ:

Yes, really. The term has a much broader meaning than it seems you think it does.




Quoting Erinelizz:

No, not really. Armed guards at schools do not help keep guns out of the hands of felons. Mental health care does not help us trace the origins of an illegally owned gun. An increased police presence does not make us take a course to improve our ability to safely own and store a gun. These are gun control measures, and they must be given their own attention.





Quoting SallyMJ:

They are all gun control measures, silly!  :)




Quoting Erinelizz:

I got the impression that he might support all of these measures I listed: except gun control measures.







Quoting SallyMJ:

I really don't think this guy is saying these multi-prong approaches shouldn't be followed.

It's hard to remember to say everything. Especially when you are speaking off the top of your head on a video.





Quoting Erinelizz:

I agree with pretty much everything he said, because I really don't support gun bans (I don't think most people do). But does he realize that there have been armed guards at some of these mass shootings and they were not able to stop these massacres? I'm not saying we shouldn't have guards...even Obama asked Congress for increased funding for school security...but that isn't going to stop all the shootings. We need to have guards, and smart gun control, and mental health care, and increased police, and work on socioeconomic factors that lead to crime, and stop glorifying the killers....I could go on. The point is, nothing should be excluded. We need to take many steps and not ignore anything that might help.




















 
Gun control laws increase per capita violent crime...across the board.  Professor John Lott's book, "More Guns, Less Crime," is a complete study of per capita violent crime, county by county, across the nation, analyzed against the various federal, state, and local gun laws in play for that area.

His book is extensive...obviously...and it proves that without exception, gun control laws actually serve to disarm only the law-abiding citizens, leaving them at the mercy of the thugs who prey on the weak.  Chicago, Oakland, Detroit, Washington DC, and New Orleans are just a few examples of just how badly innocent people have seen increases in violent crime after gun controls were enacted. 

Chicago is a powerful example.  After passing their most recent and draconian gun controls Chicago has "risen in status" to become the most dangerous city on earth.  Just yesterday, alone, Chicago had 7 muders, of which 6 were by gun. 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-boy-16-and-man-32-gunned-down-on-west-side-street-20130126,0,3833533.story 
Last year Chicago had over 500 murders, most by gun.  And Chicago is one of the top 5 most strict gun control cities in the US.  This year Chicago is already well ahead of last year's pace, and if they continue at the rate of violence we've seen already in January, Chicago will see over 700 murders in 2013, most of which...again...will be by gun.







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