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How to Stop MASS SHOOTINGS

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One of the most articulate (and easy on the eyes) speakers about gun control I've ever heard.

Thoughts, ladies?

by on Jan. 27, 2013 at 2:05 AM
Replies (31-40):
SallyMJ
by Ruby Member on Jan. 27, 2013 at 3:53 PM

Settle down girls - I think we agree on a lot of things, just not everything.

Again, there is a lot that overlaps - and that is where we should start. The same as any negotiation.

Quoting Erinelizz:

Sally and I have managed to agree on the fact that criminal and crazy control IS a form of gun control. Why are you so afraid to admit that we agree on something? All of those things that I wrote in my post that started with "no, not really", that you responded to, are the things that I want. And you agreed with most of them. Yet you say we don't agree...What exactly is it you think I want?

Quoting Farmlady09:

 You can ignore what you want ~ but I can guarantee you that 'we' don't want the same things. I absolutely do not want more gun control. I want criminal and crazy control, and I want government and nosy "don't give a crap about the Constitution" nuts out of my face (and preferably out of my country).




Quoting Erinelizz:

In the midst of saying progressives and liberals don't really want to stop shootings and may actually want more, and that gun control laws wont stop criminals, you also managed to agree with all the gun control measures that I actually support. So I'm going to ignore the rest of your post about how I want Uncle Sam to protect me, because in the end I think we both want the same things.


Quoting Farmlady09:


 Sally, he is saying what everyone who actually understands the problem ~ and the solution ~ has been saying since this became an issue again, and I agree with him 100%. The problem is that our government (and the liberals/progressives) are not interested in fixing the problem. The problem is that our gov't. and the left only want gun control. As far as I can tell, they don't actually care about stopping mass shootings (and the cynical side of me actually believes they WANT more) because when the initial gun control measures don't stop mass shootings, they have grounds to enact MORE gun control. Anyone who doesn't agree with them get called names, labeled as crazy, etc.



Erinelizz ~ Armed guards won't keep guns out of the hands of felons, but they can shoot and kill (meaning stop) anyone who opens fire in any public place, and there won't be a mass shooting taking place that day.



Mental health care doesn't trace the origins of illegally owned guns, but it absolutely would create a list of people who should not own guns ~ and if that list was a nationwide database, it would at LEAST prevent an unstable person from LEGALLY buying guns, which is something that happens right now. As far as illegally owned guns, criminals have them even in countries that have banned all guns. No law and no amount of banning guns changes criminal activity. There are only two ways to stop criminals ~ prison, or death.



I'll agree that an increased police presence won't make people take gun safety classes ~ but enacting a law that people must do so would. Personally, I think there should be such a law, as well as adding the regular hunter safety course to every school curriculum for children aged 10-12 (which is the age range most states allow young people to start hunting).



"Gun control" will not control criminals. Ever. If you believe that or are pinning your hopes on that, you will be sadly disillusioned sooner rather than later. Criminals don't care. Like it or not, 'you' (whether you like guns, own guns, are terrified of guns, don't want a gun) are the ONLY person who can do squat to actually keep yourself safer. The police can't do so. The government can't do so. All the laws in the world can't do so.



That is the reality, and every argument in favor of gun control crumbles in the face of that reality. Uncle Sammy can't do squat to keep you 'safe' ~ and the sooner people wo/man up and face that, the sooner steps to mitigate the criminal and crazy elements can actually happen.



The other option is to keep supporting a government that wants to take away 'your' Constitutional rights and whimpering pathetically everytime one of the criminals or crazies butchers a bunch of people ~ and blaming those who may own a gun but were no where near the incident. Sorry, but imo that is the true 'crazy' that is the problem ~ and a much larger one than the individual looking to go out in a blaze of glory.






Quoting Erinelizz:

No, not really. Armed guards at schools do not help keep guns out of the hands of felons. Mental health care does not help us trace the origins of an illegally owned gun. An increased police presence does not make us take a course to improve our ability to safely own and store a gun. These are gun control measures, and they must be given their own attention.



Quoting SallyMJ:



They are all gun control measures, silly!  :)




Quoting Erinelizz:

I got the impression that he might support all of these measures I listed: except gun control measures.





Quoting SallyMJ:



I really don't think this guy is saying these multi-prong approaches shouldn't be followed.



It's hard to remember to say everything. Especially when you are speaking off the top of your head on a video.





Quoting Erinelizz:

I agree with pretty much everything he said, because I really don't support gun bans (I don't think most people do). But does he realize that there have been armed guards at some of these mass shootings and they were not able to stop these massacres? I'm not saying we shouldn't have guards...even Obama asked Congress for increased funding for school security...but that isn't going to stop all the shootings. We need to have guards, and smart gun control, and mental health care, and increased police, and work on socioeconomic factors that lead to crime, and stop glorifying the killers....I could go on. The point is, nothing should be excluded. We need to take many steps and not ignore anything that might help.



























NewMom11222011
by Member on Jan. 27, 2013 at 3:55 PM
2 moms liked this

Uh, because they happen to be articulate?  I'm an articulate white woman.  But I'm curious to know what your secret knowledge is.

Quoting Raintree:

It took you this long to complain without argument. Can you tell me why the word "articulate" is always used for black men?

I know why, I'm wondering if you do.

Quoting tnmomofive:


Did not take long for this BS to be inserted.When you have no argument try to pin the op as a racist.Disgusting.

Quoting Raintree:

Why do people always call black men 'articulate'?

I never see this applied to a white person speaking. Ever.





Mama2Spencerninja

SallyMJ
by Ruby Member on Jan. 27, 2013 at 4:19 PM

Good one.

And our program today is brought to you by the SECRET letter "A".

For those who know.

Quoting NewMom11222011:

Uh, because they happen to be articulate?  I'm an articulate white woman.  But I'm curious to know what your secret knowledge is.

Quoting Raintree:

It took you this long to complain without argument. Can you tell me why the word "articulate" is always used for black men?

I know why, I'm wondering if you do.

Quoting tnmomofive:


Did not take long for this BS to be inserted.When you have no argument try to pin the op as a racist.Disgusting.

Quoting Raintree:

Why do people always call black men 'articulate'?

I never see this applied to a white person speaking. Ever.







Farmlady09
by Silver Member on Jan. 27, 2013 at 5:23 PM
1 mom liked this

Controlling criminals and crazies doesn't do squat to control guns. Guns aren't the problem. What some criminals and some crazies do with them is the problem. I'm sick of the focus on guns that don't need controlling, and I'm not willing to dress up criminal and crazy control under a gun control blanket to make either more palatable to the left.

I think we do agree, but I'm allergic to pc ...  hope that helps.


Quoting Erinelizz:

Sally and I have managed to agree on the fact that criminal and crazy control IS a form of gun control. Why are you so afraid to admit that we agree on something? All of those things that I wrote in my post that started with "no, not really", that you responded to, are the things that I want. And you agreed with most of them. Yet you say we don't agree...What exactly is it you think I want?

Quoting Farmlady09:

 You can ignore what you want ~ but I can guarantee you that 'we' don't want the same things. I absolutely do not want more gun control. I want criminal and crazy control, and I want government and nosy "don't give a crap about the Constitution" nuts out of my face (and preferably out of my country).

Quoting Erinelizz:

In the midst of saying progressives and liberals don't really want to stop shootings and may actually want more, and that gun control laws wont stop criminals, you also managed to agree with all the gun control measures that I actually support. So I'm going to ignore the rest of your post about how I want Uncle Sam to protect me, because in the end I think we both want the same things.


Quoting Farmlady09:

Quoting Erinelizz: 


Quoting SallyMJ:


Quoting Erinelizz:

Quoting SallyMJ:

Quoting Erinelizz:


 

SallyMJ
by Ruby Member on Jan. 27, 2013 at 9:33 PM
1 mom liked this

No negotiations on rights. Other things, yes.

Background checks are reasonable. Enforcing existing laws - assuming they are constitutional - are reasonable.

But rights are NEVER negotiated away. Because they are not anyone else's to give or take away.

Sorry if that wasn't clear.

Quoting The-Raven:



Quoting SallyMJ:

Settle down girls - I think we agree on a lot of things, just not everything.

Again, there is a lot that overlaps - and that is where we should start. The same as any negotiation.

Quoting Erinelizz:

Sally and I have managed to agree on the fact that criminal and crazy control IS a form of gun control. Why are you so afraid to admit that we agree on something? All of those things that I wrote in my post that started with "no, not really", that you responded to, are the things that I want. And you agreed with most of them. Yet you say we don't agree...What exactly is it you think I want?

Quoting Farmlady09:

 You can ignore what you want ~ but I can guarantee you that 'we' don't want the same things. I absolutely do not want more gun control. I want criminal and crazy control, and I want government and nosy "don't give a crap about the Constitution" nuts out of my face (and preferably out of my country).




Quoting Erinelizz:

In the midst of saying progressives and liberals don't really want to stop shootings and may actually want more, and that gun control laws wont stop criminals, you also managed to agree with all the gun control measures that I actually support. So I'm going to ignore the rest of your post about how I want Uncle Sam to protect me, because in the end I think we both want the same things.


Quoting Farmlady09:


 Sally, he is saying what everyone who actually understands the problem ~ and the solution ~ has been saying since this became an issue again, and I agree with him 100%. The problem is that our government (and the liberals/progressives) are not interested in fixing the problem. The problem is that our gov't. and the left only want gun control. As far as I can tell, they don't actually care about stopping mass shootings (and the cynical side of me actually believes they WANT more) because when the initial gun control measures don't stop mass shootings, they have grounds to enact MORE gun control. Anyone who doesn't agree with them get called names, labeled as crazy, etc.



Erinelizz ~ Armed guards won't keep guns out of the hands of felons, but they can shoot and kill (meaning stop) anyone who opens fire in any public place, and there won't be a mass shooting taking place that day.



Mental health care doesn't trace the origins of illegally owned guns, but it absolutely would create a list of people who should not own guns ~ and if that list was a nationwide database, it would at LEAST prevent an unstable person from LEGALLY buying guns, which is something that happens right now. As far as illegally owned guns, criminals have them even in countries that have banned all guns. No law and no amount of banning guns changes criminal activity. There are only two ways to stop criminals ~ prison, or death.



I'll agree that an increased police presence won't make people take gun safety classes ~ but enacting a law that people must do so would. Personally, I think there should be such a law, as well as adding the regular hunter safety course to every school curriculum for children aged 10-12 (which is the age range most states allow young people to start hunting).



"Gun control" will not control criminals. Ever. If you believe that or are pinning your hopes on that, you will be sadly disillusioned sooner rather than later. Criminals don't care. Like it or not, 'you' (whether you like guns, own guns, are terrified of guns, don't want a gun) are the ONLY person who can do squat to actually keep yourself safer. The police can't do so. The government can't do so. All the laws in the world can't do so.



That is the reality, and every argument in favor of gun control crumbles in the face of that reality. Uncle Sammy can't do squat to keep you 'safe' ~ and the sooner people wo/man up and face that, the sooner steps to mitigate the criminal and crazy elements can actually happen.



The other option is to keep supporting a government that wants to take away 'your' Constitutional rights and whimpering pathetically everytime one of the criminals or crazies butchers a bunch of people ~ and blaming those who may own a gun but were no where near the incident. Sorry, but imo that is the true 'crazy' that is the problem ~ and a much larger one than the individual looking to go out in a blaze of glory.






Quoting Erinelizz:

No, not really. Armed guards at schools do not help keep guns out of the hands of felons. Mental health care does not help us trace the origins of an illegally owned gun. An increased police presence does not make us take a course to improve our ability to safely own and store a gun. These are gun control measures, and they must be given their own attention.



Quoting SallyMJ:



They are all gun control measures, silly!  :)




Quoting Erinelizz:

I got the impression that he might support all of these measures I listed: except gun control measures.





Quoting SallyMJ:



I really don't think this guy is saying these multi-prong approaches shouldn't be followed.



It's hard to remember to say everything. Especially when you are speaking off the top of your head on a video.





Quoting Erinelizz:

I agree with pretty much everything he said, because I really don't support gun bans (I don't think most people do). But does he realize that there have been armed guards at some of these mass shootings and they were not able to stop these massacres? I'm not saying we shouldn't have guards...even Obama asked Congress for increased funding for school security...but that isn't going to stop all the shootings. We need to have guards, and smart gun control, and mental health care, and increased police, and work on socioeconomic factors that lead to crime, and stop glorifying the killers....I could go on. The point is, nothing should be excluded. We need to take many steps and not ignore anything that might help.



























Which of the rights you care about are you willing to "negotiate" and compromise away...? 





Fields456
by Bronze Member on Jan. 27, 2013 at 9:43 PM
Very good video and I agree with him 100%. The line about Kim k made me bust out laughing
Posted on CafeMom Mobile
SallyMJ
by Ruby Member on Jan. 27, 2013 at 10:12 PM

So what do you think would be best in the 2nd Amendment right to bear arms?

Quoting The-Raven:



Quoting SallyMJ:

No negotiations on rights. Other things, yes.

Background checks are reasonable. Enforcing existing laws - assuming they are constitutional - are reasonable.

But rights are NEVER negotiated away. Because they are not anyone else's to give or take away.

Sorry if that wasn't clear.

Quoting The-Raven:



Quoting SallyMJ:

Settle down girls - I think we agree on a lot of things, just not everything.

Again, there is a lot that overlaps - and that is where we should start. The same as any negotiation.

Quoting Erinelizz:

Sally and I have managed to agree on the fact that criminal and crazy control IS a form of gun control. Why are you so afraid to admit that we agree on something? All of those things that I wrote in my post that started with "no, not really", that you responded to, are the things that I want. And you agreed with most of them. Yet you say we don't agree...What exactly is it you think I want?

Quoting Farmlady09:

 You can ignore what you want ~ but I can guarantee you that 'we' don't want the same things. I absolutely do not want more gun control. I want criminal and crazy control, and I want government and nosy "don't give a crap about the Constitution" nuts out of my face (and preferably out of my country).




Quoting Erinelizz:

In the midst of saying progressives and liberals don't really want to stop shootings and may actually want more, and that gun control laws wont stop criminals, you also managed to agree with all the gun control measures that I actually support. So I'm going to ignore the rest of your post about how I want Uncle Sam to protect me, because in the end I think we both want the same things.


Quoting Farmlady09:


 Sally, he is saying what everyone who actually understands the problem ~ and the solution ~ has been saying since this became an issue again, and I agree with him 100%. The problem is that our government (and the liberals/progressives) are not interested in fixing the problem. The problem is that our gov't. and the left only want gun control. As far as I can tell, they don't actually care about stopping mass shootings (and the cynical side of me actually believes they WANT more) because when the initial gun control measures don't stop mass shootings, they have grounds to enact MORE gun control. Anyone who doesn't agree with them get called names, labeled as crazy, etc.



Erinelizz ~ Armed guards won't keep guns out of the hands of felons, but they can shoot and kill (meaning stop) anyone who opens fire in any public place, and there won't be a mass shooting taking place that day.



Mental health care doesn't trace the origins of illegally owned guns, but it absolutely would create a list of people who should not own guns ~ and if that list was a nationwide database, it would at LEAST prevent an unstable person from LEGALLY buying guns, which is something that happens right now. As far as illegally owned guns, criminals have them even in countries that have banned all guns. No law and no amount of banning guns changes criminal activity. There are only two ways to stop criminals ~ prison, or death.



I'll agree that an increased police presence won't make people take gun safety classes ~ but enacting a law that people must do so would. Personally, I think there should be such a law, as well as adding the regular hunter safety course to every school curriculum for children aged 10-12 (which is the age range most states allow young people to start hunting).



"Gun control" will not control criminals. Ever. If you believe that or are pinning your hopes on that, you will be sadly disillusioned sooner rather than later. Criminals don't care. Like it or not, 'you' (whether you like guns, own guns, are terrified of guns, don't want a gun) are the ONLY person who can do squat to actually keep yourself safer. The police can't do so. The government can't do so. All the laws in the world can't do so.



That is the reality, and every argument in favor of gun control crumbles in the face of that reality. Uncle Sammy can't do squat to keep you 'safe' ~ and the sooner people wo/man up and face that, the sooner steps to mitigate the criminal and crazy elements can actually happen.



The other option is to keep supporting a government that wants to take away 'your' Constitutional rights and whimpering pathetically everytime one of the criminals or crazies butchers a bunch of people ~ and blaming those who may own a gun but were no where near the incident. Sorry, but imo that is the true 'crazy' that is the problem ~ and a much larger one than the individual looking to go out in a blaze of glory.






Quoting Erinelizz:

No, not really. Armed guards at schools do not help keep guns out of the hands of felons. Mental health care does not help us trace the origins of an illegally owned gun. An increased police presence does not make us take a course to improve our ability to safely own and store a gun. These are gun control measures, and they must be given their own attention.



Quoting SallyMJ:



They are all gun control measures, silly!  :)




Quoting Erinelizz:

I got the impression that he might support all of these measures I listed: except gun control measures.





Quoting SallyMJ:



I really don't think this guy is saying these multi-prong approaches shouldn't be followed.



It's hard to remember to say everything. Especially when you are speaking off the top of your head on a video.





Quoting Erinelizz:

I agree with pretty much everything he said, because I really don't support gun bans (I don't think most people do). But does he realize that there have been armed guards at some of these mass shootings and they were not able to stop these massacres? I'm not saying we shouldn't have guards...even Obama asked Congress for increased funding for school security...but that isn't going to stop all the shootings. We need to have guards, and smart gun control, and mental health care, and increased police, and work on socioeconomic factors that lead to crime, and stop glorifying the killers....I could go on. The point is, nothing should be excluded. We need to take many steps and not ignore anything that might help.



























Which of the rights you care about are you willing to "negotiate" and compromise away...? 






I don't read the phrase "shall not be infringed..." as an ambiguous statement?  The requirement for a background check before someone can purchase a firearm infringes on the right of citizens.  What one government requires as the threshold to "pass" the background check WILL, in fact, change with future governments. 

One thing that often fascinates me about some Americans is that the Second Amendment's prohibitions is so extremely clear, and so all-encompassing...yet we see words like "reasonable" applied to actions that clearly violate the expressed wording of the Constitution, and the writings of the Founding Fathers, who tried very hard to express the purpose for the Second Amendment, and to warn us about those who would seek to undermine it...for whatever purpose they saw as "reasonable."  





mmccrea
by Member on Jan. 27, 2013 at 11:06 PM

So...should we send the protective shooters to anywhere where there is more than a handful of people?  It isn't just schools and theaters that mass shootings can happen.  If there is a will there is a way.  And who will pay for these protective shooters?  I just don't know how this will fix things.  

mmccrea
by Member on Jan. 27, 2013 at 11:21 PM

Okay...so in your world every person would have their own protective shooter?  Who would pay for that?  And, my kid doesn't get death threats often, the presidents kids...they do.


Quoting The-Raven:



Quoting mmccrea:

So...should we send the protective shooters to anywhere where there is more than a handful of people?  It isn't just schools and theaters that mass shootings can happen.  If there is a will there is a way.  And who will pay for these protective shooters?  I just don't know how this will fix things.  


 The president's daughters have 12 heavily-armed "shooters" protecting their school every day.  So far it's worked rather well.



GrannyM.
by Bronze Member on Jan. 28, 2013 at 5:49 PM

I agree with the guy...He makes some grea points...

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