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A message from Ruger

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Gun rights are under attack!

At Ruger, our motto is "Arms Makers for Responsible Citizens." It is not just a slogan; it is genuine recognition that millions of law-abiding citizens use our firearms safely and responsibly every day. We are mechanics, doctors, teachers, police officers, firemen, nurses, factory workers, and every other occupation you can name. We are a vast and too-often silent majority... and our rights are under attack.


This is what I see when I log into my Ellett Brothers site.


by on Jan. 27, 2013 at 7:01 PM
Replies (61-63):
Erinelizz
by Bronze Member on Jan. 28, 2013 at 6:00 PM
I wasn't going to respond, but you really need to be called out on this.

First, I'm glad you finally understand what I was saying. After spending so much time posting statistics about who is in prison and why you think that makes them liberals or part of the Democratic voting bloc, I'm glad you now realize that conservative/liberal leanings have nothing to do with creating a criminal.

I particularly like how you try to make it sound like it was your idea all along that political leanings don't matter, despite the fact that I quoted your words saying quite the opposite. Here they are again:

"The vast majority of gun owners are responsible, law-abiding people. I wish I could make the same generalization about Liberals." quoth The-Raven.

Here's another:
"You'll see some of the Democrats' main voter blocks prominently listed...prominently, as in 6 to 8 times more likely to commit a violent crime than Americans from other groups."

But it was never about political party for you??


Quoting The-Raven:

 


 


Quoting Erinelizz:

Lets go back to the beginning,
You said :
"The vast majority of gun owners are responsible, law-abiding people. I wish I could make the same generalization about Liberals. "

So you were trying say, in other words, that you can't say that the vast majority of liberals are law abiding citizens. Then you try to prove this point by saying that prisons are supposedly chock-full of violent criminals who belong to a demographic that typically vote Democrat. That alone is ridiculous, but I'll continue.

My point is that criminals do not have the same morals, values, belief system, whatever, as the rest of us. That point should be fairly obvious. Just because a criminal's family is pro-life, pro-gay marriage, pro-environment, and pro-other liberal issues, that does not contribute to their criminal behavior. Poor economic situations and mental health issues can contribute to criminal behavior, and economic issues tend to plague minority, inner city families. So to try to call them all liberals or Democrats is insulting and reaching. Trying to tie those two things together is a desperate act to make yourself feel superior. Now do you understand? Probably not. :(

Conversation:over. Feel free to have the last word.




Quoting The-Raven:


 



 



Quoting Erinelizz:

Once again...the reality if the situation is that people who commit violent crime are unlikely to have much interest in politics. If you're trying to point to living conditions, and how many minorities live in poor communities where low socioeconomic status contributes to the crime rate, then by all means, we can talk. But you're trying to say criminals have a particular party affiliation, and one can only speculate about such a thing.



Quoting The-Raven:



 




 




Quoting Erinelizz:

Clearly, we are trying to make different points then. Your information does not prove or disprove the point that you were trying to make. Now you're saying you were trying to prove a different point altogether. Sigh.




Quoting The-Raven:




 





 





Quoting Erinelizz:

Did you even read my post?? I feel like you went to a lot of work for nothing. Begin with the sentence that says "Fortunately, I'm not like that..." and you'll see that unlike you, I don't presume to know anything about a person based on the color of their skin, nor do I believe that most violent criminals vote.





Quoting The-Raven:





 







 







Quoting Erinelizz:

What are you attempting to say here? That "democrats" or "liberals" commit more crimes in this country? Please, show me the unbiased research on this, because when I look at the crime statistics, I do not see anything to support your claim.

Here is what I do see: I see that the south and the Midwest have higher per capita crime rates than the west and the northeast. I also see that about 93% of the prison population are men, and 60% of the prison population are white. If I liked to make sweeping generalizations about groups of people based on stereotypes about white, southern men, I certainly could. Fortunately, I'm not like that, and I recognize that most people who live their lives by breaking the law and hurting others are probably not interested in politics and likely don't even vote. But again, if you have unbiased information to support your claim, I'd really like to see it.








Quoting The-Raven:







 








 








Quoting sweet-a-kins:

More insults because you can't win ok merit

Same script, different cast









Quoting The-Raven:








 









 









Quoting sweet-a-kins:









You could, but that would mean being honest...









 









Remember the Bush Jr. years, @[108038612554992:274:Americans Against the Tea Party]? <br />
<br />
Found on the @[240984512605919:274:Teanderthal Party] FB page.









Quoting The-Raven:









 









 









Quoting mikiemom:









stir up the fear hate and anger for sales. Go get em - hope you can live with the karma you are reaping.









 









 There's not a word they wrote that's at all inaccurate. 

The vast majority of gun owners are responsible, law-abiding people.  I wish I could make the same generalization about Liberals. 




















 









 Obviously, you're as ridiculously ignorant about the demographics of crime as you are every subject I've seen you comment on.








If  you knew anything about the demographics of crime you'd realize that it was a statement of reality.  Read the FBI's Uniform Report on Crime in the US.  Learn something...for a change. 








 







Check the FBI's Uniform Report on Crime in the US.  Each annual version has a section that shows the demographics of the population who are committing violent crimes.  You'll see some of the Democrats' main voter blocks prominently listed...prominently, as in 6 to 8 times more likely to commit a violent crime than Americans from other groups.

Also, check the demographics of our nation's prison system.  This really isn't "rocket science." 

The data you'll find isn't "politically correct."  But then, truth seldom is... 







 By the way, if you actuallyread FBI crime and incarceration demgraphics statistics you couldn't have possibly come up with the numbers you posted above.  Those percentages you posted are way, way off.  If we're going to debate this subject let's not use "pretend" numbers.  And if we're going to talk about the demographics of inmates let's not pollute this debate with irrelevant facts...total prison population is not reflective of the violent crime statistics.  We're talking about violence here...not "white-collar crimes."  If we're going to argue about guns and violent crime, and use crime statistics and inmate demographics as a subject of discussion, let's keep our  numbers within the bounds of relevance.  This is about violence.  The numbers we should be talking about are the numbers that reflect violent crime and incarceration for violent crime.

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=5009270&page=1
 





 





 I can see it's difficult for you to keep your emotions out of this.  But we're talking about federal reports and the demographics of violent crime.  I'm simply providing you with the information the federal government publishes. 

If you don't like what they publish, complain to your government.

And as a note of clarification, the point was not to determine or discuss how any group of felons tend to vote.  The point of the discussion was what is the type of household environment that is spawning most of America's violent felons.  Many of our most violent felons end up in prison long before their first opportunity to cast a ballot.  But if we can understand the parenting and the value system these thugs are being raised in we might be able to reduce violent crime, which is what I thought most of the contributors on this thread were interested in doing...




No.  Actually, my point has been about violent crime all along.  And when you can point to a demographic group that supports Democrat politicians at 90% numbers and above, and see FBI stats that show that young men in that group commit violent crime at rates 6 to 8 times higher than the same age men from different demographic groups, you eventually run out of options that allow you to escape the reality of the situation.




Being unwilling to accept the facts does not change the facts. 



I've already repeated that the point is not the criminals voting preferences that is important, but what type of values and belief systems that were involved when he was being raised.  Repeating your previously posted, and corrected misinterpretation of the context of my comment does not change the comment I made.

I never made a point about criminals and their specific party affiliation, if any.  Your repeated attempts to create points and attribute them to me so you have something you can argue does not speak well for your ability to comprehend.

There is a very fine line between being obtuse and being "iron-headed." 


The point is not what political party any particular violent criminal would tend to support, but what type home environment produces our violent criminals.  If our goal is reducing violence, then the party politics of the criminal is less irrelevant than belief system being taught in the home environment that produces the criminal.

I don't know why that has to be pointed out to you....again.  But apparently, it does.


 

 


 

Posted on the NEW CafeMom Mobile
Carpy
by Platinum Member on Jan. 28, 2013 at 7:06 PM
Sarcasm is very common in my posts. I can't help myself.

Quoting The-Raven:

 




Quoting Carpy:

Have you ever heard of sarcasm? And I did not reference any specific type of crime. I fully understand he dynamics of violent crime.


Quoting The-Raven:


 



 



Quoting Carpy:

Most people in prison are Democrat voters. Maybe that just means republicans are a bit smarter about not getting caught?



Quoting Erinelizz:

What are you attempting to say here? That "democrats" or "liberals" commit more crimes in this country? Please, show me the unbiased research on this, because when I look at the crime statistics, I do not see anything to support your claim.



Here is what I do see: I see that the south and the Midwest have higher per capita crime rates than the west and the northeast. I also see that about 93% of the prison population are men, and 60% of the prison population are white. If I liked to make sweeping generalizations about groups of people based on stereotypes about white, southern men, I certainly could. Fortunately, I'm not like that, and I recognize that most people who live their lives by breaking the law and hurting others are probably not interested in politics and likely don't even vote. But again, if you have unbiased information to support your claim, I'd really like to see it.






Quoting The-Raven:



 





 





Quoting sweet-a-kins:

More insults because you can't win ok merit

Same script, different cast






Quoting The-Raven:





 






 






Quoting sweet-a-kins:






You could, but that would mean being honest...






 






Remember the Bush Jr. years, @[108038612554992:274:Americans Against the Tea Party]? 

Found on the @[240984512605919:274:Teanderthal Party] FB page.






Quoting The-Raven:






 






 






Quoting mikiemom:






stir up the fear hate and anger for sales. Go get em - hope you can live with the karma you are reaping.






 






 There's not a word they wrote that's at all inaccurate. 

The vast majority of gun owners are responsible, law-abiding people.  I wish I could make the same generalization about Liberals. 














 






 Obviously, you're as ridiculously ignorant about the demographics of crime as you are every subject I've seen you comment on.





If  you knew anything about the democraphics of crime you'd realize that it was a statement of reality.  Read the FBI's Uniform Report on Crime in the US.  Learn something...for a change. 





 



Let's not get crazy in our attempt to make a point, here.  We're talking about violent criminals.  Being "smart" really isn't of a lot of use in escaping being charged with a violent crime.  Most often those type crimes require "face-to-face" interaction with the victim(s).  Once the victim sees the face if his/her attacker, how "smart" the perp may be tends to lose it's value.




 




 Sarcasm is not always obvious in print.  Many people I know, who tend to use sarcasm in online forums use (sarc) after their comment so as to not have it mistaken for something other than what they'd intended.

Posted on CafeMom Mobile
Redwall
by Bronze Member on Jan. 29, 2013 at 7:05 PM
Amen to that!
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