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Obamacare Incompetence

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Obama delivers remarks on infrastructure investment at PortMiami
JONATHAN ERNST / REUTERS

U.S. President Barack Obama at Port Miami on March 29, 2013

In the Arena

Let me try to understand this: the key incentive for small businesses to support Obamacare was that they would be able to shop for the best deals in health care superstores — called exchanges. The Administration has had three years to set up these exchanges. It has failed to do so.

This is a really bad sign. There will be those who argue that it’s not the Administration’s fault. It’s the fault of the 33 states that have refused to set up their own exchanges. Nonsense. Where was the contingency planning? There certainly are models, after all — the federal government’s own health-benefits plan (FEHBP) operates markets that exist in all 50 states. So does Medicare Advantage. But now, the Obama Administration has announced that it won’t have the exchanges ready in time, that small businesses will be offered one choice for the time being — for a year, at least. No doubt, small-business owners will be skeptical of the Obama Administration’s belief in the efficacy of the market system to produce lower prices through competition. That was supposed to be the point of this plan.

Certainly, the Republicans who have stood in the way of these exchanges — their own idea, by the way, born in the conservative Heritage Foundation — deserve a great deal of “credit” for the debacle. But we are now seeing weekly examples of this Administration’s inability to govern. Just a few weeks ago, I reported on the failure of the Department of Defense and Veterans Affairs to come up with a unified electronic health care records system. There has also been the studied inattention to the myriad ineffective job-training programs scattered through the bureaucracy. There have been the oblique and belated efforts to reform Head Start, a $7 billion program that a study conducted by its own bureaucracy — the Department of Health and Human Services — has found nearly worthless. The list is endless.

Yes, the President has faced a terrible economic crisis — and he has done well to limit the damage. He has also succeeded in avoiding disasters overseas. But, as a Democrat — as someone who believes in activist government — he has a vested interest in seeing that federal programs actually work efficiently. I don’t see much evidence that this is anywhere near the top of his priorities.

One thing is clear: Obamacare will fail if he doesn’t start paying more attention to the details of implementation, if he doesn’t start demanding action. And, in a larger sense, the notion of activist government will be in peril — despite the demographics flowing the Democrats’ way — if institutions like the VA and Obamacare don’t deliver the goods. Sooner or later, the Republican Party may come to understand that its best argument isn’t about tearing down the government we have, but making it run more efficiently.

Sooner or later, the Democrats may come to understand that making it run efficiently is the prerequisite for maintaining power.

by on Apr. 5, 2013 at 1:31 AM
Replies (41-48):
143myboys9496
by Gold Member on Apr. 9, 2013 at 1:45 AM
1 mom liked this

 Puleezzee..name 1 thing our gov't runs efficiently? Just one, our ENTIRE gov't..not just Barry or the Congress of baboons..all of it..I cannot think of 1 thing our gov't runs efficiently.

Sooner or later, the Democrats may come to understand that making it run efficiently is the prerequisite for maintaining power.

stacymomof2
by Bronze Member on Apr. 9, 2013 at 1:50 AM

Well thanks for the good wishes but I have always had to provide my own healthcare. I have worked in an industry that typically doesn't provide health insurance and have been self employed my entire life. My hours won't be cut because I work in a business with less than 50 full time employees. And since hubs works in our business our health care is all on us anyway. But like I said,it's sweet of you to bring it up.

Quoting SallyMJ:

When your employer has to lay you off or cut your hours to 29, so as to have to avoid the Obamacare triggers, it will be you, not your former or part-time employer who needs to worry about your health insurance.


Quoting stacymomof2:

So then buy your current plan over the exchange if your employer decides to reduce your compensation by dropping medical.  An employer is not reducing the benefits packages they offer employees because of the health care law.  As a matter of fact they are required to offer a minimum coverage at a cost their employees can afford.  Do you think insurance companies are not going to offer plans on the exchange?  Of course they would be stupid not to, I guarantee that all companies would be on the exchanges, why would they not make their product available?  So if your employer decides they would like to reduce your pay and blame it on "Obamacare" that doesn't mean it wouldn't have happened anyway.

Got a link to any of these studies you are referring to?


Quoting Analeigh2012:

The law doesn't state people cannot keep their insurance.
There are several studies that have looked into what impact ACA will have on ESI plans. Estimates do vary, but all agree ACA will have a very negative impact on these employer sponsored plans. Especially the longer the law is in effect. As a matter of fact, the GAO released a study last July that included results from 16 employer surveys - as many as 20% of employers state they will reduce or drop ESI plans. The major factor - companies are waiting to see what the exchanges will include and how successful they are. The greater the success, the greater the chance employers will stop offering plans to their employees. Private sector analysis has listed as high as 30% of employers will drop coverage. But again - over time. In the near term, all studies show little to no affect on ESIs, as a result of companies "waiting to see". Avalere Health LLC put together a great presentation on this topic - found here: http://www.nadp.org/Files/Handouts/Caroline-Pearson.pdf
So while the law doesn't state "you will lose your healthcare plan", there seems to be many indicators that say over time "you very likely could".


Quoting stacymomof2:

Where does the law say you can't keep your current insurance?  Go ahead and keep it and your doc...who is stopping you?

As for the OP, this delay sucks.  When the bill was passed 2014 seemed so far away.  Now it is upon us and they will have to get their shit together.

Quoting SallyMJ:

Operative words: "So far".

Like O saying Americans could keep their own doctors and insurance plans.

Bait and switch.



Quoting GrannyM.:

Don't jump to conclusions....read it all carefully ....Our medicare is better than ever and that's our personal experience with our doctors so far.








stacymomof2
by Bronze Member on Apr. 9, 2013 at 1:53 AM

You would, would you?  lol

Yes, because I disagree with you I am uninformed or stupid.  That's what you think, go ahead and think it.

Quoting Analeigh2012:

I would like to know where you obtain the information that forms your opinions.
Do you work in healthcare, for a large company, for insurance? Have you read the ACA?
I only ask because your comments seem very much like the liberal talking points I get daily in emails from the Democratic Party.


Quoting stacymomof2:

Why would the fact that insurance is available on an exchange change how much your company is willing to compensate you?  The real issue is companies are trying to cut costs so they will require a larger co-pay from their employees for the same coverage or buy into a cheaper plan. It would have happened anyway, it HAS been happening.  Just like wages are falling.

Large company profits are up, though, since they have their pick of employees who can't afford to hold out for more pay or benefits.


Quoting Billiejeens:



Of course.


You can't keep something not offered.


Quoting Analeigh2012:

The law doesn't state people cannot keep their insurance.
There are several studies that have looked into what impact ACA will have on ESI plans. Estimates do vary, but all agree ACA will have a very negative impact on these employer sponsored plans. Especially the longer the law is in effect. As a matter of fact, the GAO released a study last July that included results from 16 employer surveys - as many as 20% of employers state they will reduce or drop ESI plans. The major factor - companies are waiting to see what the exchanges will include and how successful they are. The greater the success, the greater the chance employers will stop offering plans to their employees. Private sector analysis has listed as high as 30% of employers will drop coverage. But again - over time. In the near term, all studies show little to no affect on ESIs, as a result of companies "waiting to see". Avalere Health LLC put together a great presentation on this topic - found here: http://www.nadp.org/Files/Handouts/Caroline-Pearson.pdf
So while the law doesn't state "you will lose your healthcare plan", there seems to be many indicators that say over time "you very likely could".



Quoting stacymomof2:


Where does the law say you can't keep your current insurance?  Go ahead and keep it and your doc...who is stopping you?


As for the OP, this delay sucks.  When the bill was passed 2014 seemed so far away.  Now it is upon us and they will have to get their shit together.


Quoting SallyMJ:


Operative words: "So far".


Like O saying Americans could keep their own doctors and insurance plans.


Bait and switch.





Quoting GrannyM.:


Don't jump to conclusions....read it all carefully ....Our medicare is better than ever and that's our personal experience with our doctors so far.














stacymomof2
by Bronze Member on Apr. 9, 2013 at 1:58 AM

I don't read Talking Points Memo.  

Do you ever NOT make giant assumptions with no factual basis?

Quoting SallyMJ:

Talking Points Memo! Dems are the only party who actually sends out daily talking points.

Are they afraid people can't think for themselves??


Quoting Analeigh2012:

I would like to know where you obtain the information that forms your opinions.
Do you work in healthcare, for a large company, for insurance? Have you read the ACA?
I only ask because your comments seem very much like the liberal talking points I get daily in emails from the Democratic Party.


Quoting stacymomof2:

Why would the fact that insurance is available on an exchange change how much your company is willing to compensate you?  The real issue is companies are trying to cut costs so they will require a larger co-pay from their employees for the same coverage or buy into a cheaper plan. It would have happened anyway, it HAS been happening.  Just like wages are falling.

Large company profits are up, though, since they have their pick of employees who can't afford to hold out for more pay or benefits.


Quoting Billiejeens:



Of course.


You can't keep something not offered.


Quoting Analeigh2012:

The law doesn't state people cannot keep their insurance.
There are several studies that have looked into what impact ACA will have on ESI plans. Estimates do vary, but all agree ACA will have a very negative impact on these employer sponsored plans. Especially the longer the law is in effect. As a matter of fact, the GAO released a study last July that included results from 16 employer surveys - as many as 20% of employers state they will reduce or drop ESI plans. The major factor - companies are waiting to see what the exchanges will include and how successful they are. The greater the success, the greater the chance employers will stop offering plans to their employees. Private sector analysis has listed as high as 30% of employers will drop coverage. But again - over time. In the near term, all studies show little to no affect on ESIs, as a result of companies "waiting to see". Avalere Health LLC put together a great presentation on this topic - found here: http://www.nadp.org/Files/Handouts/Caroline-Pearson.pdf
So while the law doesn't state "you will lose your healthcare plan", there seems to be many indicators that say over time "you very likely could".



Quoting stacymomof2:


Where does the law say you can't keep your current insurance?  Go ahead and keep it and your doc...who is stopping you?


As for the OP, this delay sucks.  When the bill was passed 2014 seemed so far away.  Now it is upon us and they will have to get their shit together.


Quoting SallyMJ:


Operative words: "So far".


Like O saying Americans could keep their own doctors and insurance plans.


Bait and switch.





Quoting GrannyM.:


Don't jump to conclusions....read it all carefully ....Our medicare is better than ever and that's our personal experience with our doctors so far.
















Analeigh2012
by Silver Member on Apr. 9, 2013 at 1:00 PM
I am so glad you know what I want to think! That is great!!

I appreciate that the link I gave analyzes multiple studies and actually gave me information I didn't know. I THOUGHT after reading the ACA that companies would drop insurance quickly and pay the fine, forcing employees to get their own. I was very interested to see the surveys and see that I was wrong.

You have a very bad impression of large companies. Sounds very MSNBC. You say companies are going to ditch ESI to reduce compensation and blame ACA. Um. The whole point in business is to make a profit. The ACA is new and forcing companies to look at their options. ACA is not reducing costs of insurance and insurance companies are raising the cost of policies. ACA is the cause - not just a scape goat.


Quoting stacymomof2:

I am apparently not making myself clear.  Companies are currently offering health insurance.  When they hear about Obamacare, they decide to NOT offer insurance and instead pay a fine.  Therefore reducing compensation to their employees, saving money, and blaming the ACA.  See?

If you are shopping benefits as an HR person, why would the availability of other insurance to the employees suddenly make you stop paying for it?  The decision was made to stop paying for it.  A company currently offering insurance (which wouldn't be affected by the ACA) will not just stop why?

Tell me the reason why they would stop paying for it and pay a fine instead?  

And no kidding you agree with the non-linked studies.  It fits what you want to believe.

Quoting Analeigh2012:

Other than the link I posted that summarizes all the studies? Nope.



I can say I believe the studies, that employers will not drop plans immediately, but over time I can see them doing so, especially if more options are available on the exchanges. You are very wrong about stating employers are not dropping plans because of Obamacare. It is true coanies are required to offer plans OR PAY A FINE. Companies are calculating the cost of fines versus their cost of ESI Plans. If cheaper to pay the fine, you better believe plans will be dropped. It is very naive of you to think otherwise. I am in HR for a Global mega company. I have sat through many, many sessions and meetings where we are determining how to proceed. Cost is the factor. And Obamacare is creating the additional cost, so yes, it can be blamed.




Quoting stacymomof2:

So then buy your current plan over the exchange if your employer decides to reduce your compensation by dropping medical.  An employer is not reducing the benefits packages they offer employees because of the health care law.  As a matter of fact they are required to offer a minimum coverage at a cost their employees can afford.  Do you think insurance companies are not going to offer plans on the exchange?  Of course they would be stupid not to, I guarantee that all companies would be on the exchanges, why would they not make their product available?  So if your employer decides they would like to reduce your pay and blame it on "Obamacare" that doesn't mean it wouldn't have happened anyway.

Got a link to any of these studies you are referring to?


Quoting Analeigh2012:

The law doesn't state people cannot keep their insurance.


There are several studies that have looked into what impact ACA will have on ESI plans. Estimates do vary, but all agree ACA will have a very negative impact on these employer sponsored plans. Especially the longer the law is in effect. As a matter of fact, the GAO released a study last July that included results from 16 employer surveys - as many as 20% of employers state they will reduce or drop ESI plans. The major factor - companies are waiting to see what the exchanges will include and how successful they are. The greater the success, the greater the chance employers will stop offering plans to their employees. Private sector analysis has listed as high as 30% of employers will drop coverage. But again - over time. In the near term, all studies show little to no affect on ESIs, as a result of companies "waiting to see". Avalere Health LLC put together a great presentation on this topic - found here: http://www.nadp.org/Files/Handouts/Caroline-Pearson.pdf


So while the law doesn't state "you will lose your healthcare plan", there seems to be many indicators that say over time "you very likely could".






Quoting stacymomof2:

Where does the law say you can't keep your current insurance?  Go ahead and keep it and your doc...who is stopping you?

As for the OP, this delay sucks.  When the bill was passed 2014 seemed so far away.  Now it is upon us and they will have to get their shit together.

Quoting SallyMJ:

Operative words: "So far".

Like O saying Americans could keep their own doctors and insurance plans.

Bait and switch.





Quoting GrannyM.:

Don't jump to conclusions....read it all carefully ....Our medicare is better than ever and that's our personal experience with our doctors so far.









Posted on CafeMom Mobile
Analeigh2012
by Silver Member on Apr. 9, 2013 at 1:05 PM
I don't think you are uninformed. Just saying your opinions sounds like the DNC emails I get. If that is the source of your knowledge - fine. Yes, it does differ from mine, but that doesn't make it wrong. I never have said or believe that I am always right. I research, discuss and listen to other opinions and sometimes mine changes and sometimes it doesn't. I am really open minded and don't just listen to one source believing it hook, line and sinker.
I am interested in where you work, where you read. But if you don't feel comfortable sharing - fine.


Quoting stacymomof2:

You would, would you?  lol

Yes, because I disagree with you I am uninformed or stupid.  That's what you think, go ahead and think it.

Quoting Analeigh2012:

I would like to know where you obtain the information that forms your opinions.

Do you work in healthcare, for a large company, for insurance? Have you read the ACA?

I only ask because your comments seem very much like the liberal talking points I get daily in emails from the Democratic Party.




Quoting stacymomof2:

Why would the fact that insurance is available on an exchange change how much your company is willing to compensate you?  The real issue is companies are trying to cut costs so they will require a larger co-pay from their employees for the same coverage or buy into a cheaper plan. It would have happened anyway, it HAS been happening.  Just like wages are falling.

Large company profits are up, though, since they have their pick of employees who can't afford to hold out for more pay or benefits.


Quoting Billiejeens:




Of course.



You can't keep something not offered.



Quoting Analeigh2012:

The law doesn't state people cannot keep their insurance.
There are several studies that have looked into what impact ACA will have on ESI plans. Estimates do vary, but all agree ACA will have a very negative impact on these employer sponsored plans. Especially the longer the law is in effect. As a matter of fact, the GAO released a study last July that included results from 16 employer surveys - as many as 20% of employers state they will reduce or drop ESI plans. The major factor - companies are waiting to see what the exchanges will include and how successful they are. The greater the success, the greater the chance employers will stop offering plans to their employees. Private sector analysis has listed as high as 30% of employers will drop coverage. But again - over time. In the near term, all studies show little to no affect on ESIs, as a result of companies "waiting to see". Avalere Health LLC put together a great presentation on this topic - found here: http://www.nadp.org/Files/Handouts/Caroline-Pearson.pdf
So while the law doesn't state "you will lose your healthcare plan", there seems to be many indicators that say over time "you very likely could".




Quoting stacymomof2:



Where does the law say you can't keep your current insurance?  Go ahead and keep it and your doc...who is stopping you?



As for the OP, this delay sucks.  When the bill was passed 2014 seemed so far away.  Now it is upon us and they will have to get their shit together.



Quoting SallyMJ:



Operative words: "So far".



Like O saying Americans could keep their own doctors and insurance plans.



Bait and switch.







Quoting GrannyM.:



Don't jump to conclusions....read it all carefully ....Our medicare is better than ever and that's our personal experience with our doctors so far.



















Posted on CafeMom Mobile
SallyMJ
by Ruby Member on Apr. 9, 2013 at 1:15 PM
1 mom liked this

So your industry itself already does what many businesses are doing, to avoid the crushing taxes and regulations of Obamacare.

A half congratulations only for confirming that businesses are right about making the moves your industry had done.

But you don't realize why they are this way - reason for not a full congratulations.

Bone up on facts, of which you appear to be severely lacking. Read ALL the news, not just the liberally biased MSM and liberal news sites.

Quoting stacymomof2:

Well thanks for the good wishes but I have always had to provide my own healthcare. I have worked in an industry that typically doesn't provide health insurance and have been self employed my entire life. My hours won't be cut because I work in a business with less than 50 full time employees. And since hubs works in our business our health care is all on us anyway. But like I said,it's sweet of you to bring it up.

Quoting SallyMJ:

When your employer has to lay you off or cut your hours to 29, so as to have to avoid the Obamacare triggers, it will be you, not your former or part-time employer who needs to worry about your health insurance.


Quoting stacymomof2:

So then buy your current plan over the exchange if your employer decides to reduce your compensation by dropping medical.  An employer is not reducing the benefits packages they offer employees because of the health care law.  As a matter of fact they are required to offer a minimum coverage at a cost their employees can afford.  Do you think insurance companies are not going to offer plans on the exchange?  Of course they would be stupid not to, I guarantee that all companies would be on the exchanges, why would they not make their product available?  So if your employer decides they would like to reduce your pay and blame it on "Obamacare" that doesn't mean it wouldn't have happened anyway.

Got a link to any of these studies you are referring to?


Quoting Analeigh2012:

The law doesn't state people cannot keep their insurance.
There are several studies that have looked into what impact ACA will have on ESI plans. Estimates do vary, but all agree ACA will have a very negative impact on these employer sponsored plans. Especially the longer the law is in effect. As a matter of fact, the GAO released a study last July that included results from 16 employer surveys - as many as 20% of employers state they will reduce or drop ESI plans. The major factor - companies are waiting to see what the exchanges will include and how successful they are. The greater the success, the greater the chance employers will stop offering plans to their employees. Private sector analysis has listed as high as 30% of employers will drop coverage. But again - over time. In the near term, all studies show little to no affect on ESIs, as a result of companies "waiting to see". Avalere Health LLC put together a great presentation on this topic - found here: http://www.nadp.org/Files/Handouts/Caroline-Pearson.pdf
So while the law doesn't state "you will lose your healthcare plan", there seems to be many indicators that say over time "you very likely could".


Quoting stacymomof2:

Where does the law say you can't keep your current insurance?  Go ahead and keep it and your doc...who is stopping you?

As for the OP, this delay sucks.  When the bill was passed 2014 seemed so far away.  Now it is upon us and they will have to get their shit together.

Quoting SallyMJ:

Operative words: "So far".

Like O saying Americans could keep their own doctors and insurance plans.

Bait and switch.



Quoting GrannyM.:

Don't jump to conclusions....read it all carefully ....Our medicare is better than ever and that's our personal experience with our doctors so far.










SallyMJ
by Ruby Member on Apr. 9, 2013 at 1:19 PM
1 mom liked this

You seem to use the Democrat talking points, in any form. You don't use logic, but emotional reasoning, and the argument you've been taught to think.

Don't you ever think for yourself, considering evidence on both sides? Didn't think so.


Quoting stacymomof2:

I don't read Talking Points Memo.  

Do you ever NOT make giant assumptions with no factual basis?

Quoting SallyMJ:

Talking Points Memo! Dems are the only party who actually sends out daily talking points.

Are they afraid people can't think for themselves??


Quoting Analeigh2012:

I would like to know where you obtain the information that forms your opinions.
Do you work in healthcare, for a large company, for insurance? Have you read the ACA?
I only ask because your comments seem very much like the liberal talking points I get daily in emails from the Democratic Party.


Quoting stacymomof2:

Why would the fact that insurance is available on an exchange change how much your company is willing to compensate you?  The real issue is companies are trying to cut costs so they will require a larger co-pay from their employees for the same coverage or buy into a cheaper plan. It would have happened anyway, it HAS been happening.  Just like wages are falling.

Large company profits are up, though, since they have their pick of employees who can't afford to hold out for more pay or benefits.


Quoting Billiejeens:



Of course.


You can't keep something not offered.


Quoting Analeigh2012:

The law doesn't state people cannot keep their insurance.
There are several studies that have looked into what impact ACA will have on ESI plans. Estimates do vary, but all agree ACA will have a very negative impact on these employer sponsored plans. Especially the longer the law is in effect. As a matter of fact, the GAO released a study last July that included results from 16 employer surveys - as many as 20% of employers state they will reduce or drop ESI plans. The major factor - companies are waiting to see what the exchanges will include and how successful they are. The greater the success, the greater the chance employers will stop offering plans to their employees. Private sector analysis has listed as high as 30% of employers will drop coverage. But again - over time. In the near term, all studies show little to no affect on ESIs, as a result of companies "waiting to see". Avalere Health LLC put together a great presentation on this topic - found here: http://www.nadp.org/Files/Handouts/Caroline-Pearson.pdf
So while the law doesn't state "you will lose your healthcare plan", there seems to be many indicators that say over time "you very likely could".



Quoting stacymomof2:


Where does the law say you can't keep your current insurance?  Go ahead and keep it and your doc...who is stopping you?


As for the OP, this delay sucks.  When the bill was passed 2014 seemed so far away.  Now it is upon us and they will have to get their shit together.


Quoting SallyMJ:


Operative words: "So far".


Like O saying Americans could keep their own doctors and insurance plans.


Bait and switch.





Quoting GrannyM.:


Don't jump to conclusions....read it all carefully ....Our medicare is better than ever and that's our personal experience with our doctors so far.


















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