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Warrantless Searches In Boston?

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http://myfreedomfoundation.com/blog/liberty-live/detail/can-the-police-search-my-home-for-a-bomber

Can the Police Search My Home for a Bomber?

Today in Watertown, Massachusetts, law enforcement officials are going from house to house with trained SWAT team snipers drawing a bead on any occupants and instructing those occupants to exit the houses so the police can enter and search the premises.

Is this constitutional?

No.

Contrary to this article posted on Slate.com, constitutional rights do not evaporate whenever the government decides they would be inconvenient. Police have no right to expel citizens from their homes or to engage in warrantless searches of those homes just because the government declares that an emergency exists.

The Fourth Amendment makes clear that people have a right for their persons and homes to be secure against unreasonable searches and seizures, and that judges must not issue warrants permitting the government to intrude upon someone's home unless there is a clear reason to believe that a specific thing or person will be found in a specific, identified location. The Washington Constitution is even more protective of citizens' rights, stating that "no person shall be disturbed in his private affairs, or his home invaded, without authority of law."

Courts have, by-and-large, allowed certain exceptions to these constitutional rules, such as if the police see a potential criminal enter someone's property and there is no time to obtain the warrant that would otherwise be necessary to follow the suspect. This is known as the "hot pursuit" doctrine. Courts also usually recognize an exception if police believe that intruding on a citizen's property is necessary to assist someone threatened with immediate harm or injury.

But these exceptions do not apply to the circumstances in Watertown. The police do not know where the suspected criminal is, and they have no reason to believe that he is in any specific house in Watertown. Neither do they have any reason to believe that any specific citizen of Watertown is in immediate danger of harm or injury. And, importantly, they also have no reason to believe that any specific citizen is harboring the suspect in their home.

Thus, this entire operation is one gigantic fishing expedition - and that is precisely the sort of thing forbidden by the Fourth Amendment and Article I, section 7 of the Washington Constitution.

The police can warn people to be on the lookout for the suspect. They can ask for permission to search a citizen's home. But unless they have clear reason to believe that the suspect is on a specific property and that he might escape in the time necessary to obtain a warrant, the police cannot constitutionally force citizens out of their homes or engage in a warrantless search of those homes.

I can hear some people now saying, "But surely these are special circumstances..."

They are not, and it is extremely dangerous for the very idea of constitutional liberty to presume that citizens may be stripped of their rights whenever the government declares it necessary. History teaches us that one exception breeds another, and that pattern will continue until the exceptions destroy the rule. Once the principles of liberty have been sacrificed, it is exceptionally difficult for them to be recovered. We must remain vigilant and steadfast in our protection of our rights, and we must not allow fear to lead us to abandon those rights.
Posted on the NEW CafeMom Mobile
by on Apr. 19, 2013 at 5:43 PM
Replies (31-40):
celticdragon77
by on Apr. 19, 2013 at 10:12 PM

Yeah, well do you have the guts to be the next victim? Wtf! These people just had something terrorizing happen and they want the threat gone from the community. They do not want to be the next victim. The threat is not the police! Why are people SO afraid of their own country here. I don't understand it at all. Do you not know how truly free yet protected we really are here? It's not perfect and never can be. However, we are doing a decent job of it. If you don't agree with me, fine. But this particular situation is doubtfully the time for being paranoia of the government. It is a time when you stand up as an American and give these men and women the honor they deserve for risking their lives for us all. It is common sense and respect - or maybe we have lost that (and that's the the real shame). Btw, these images that you posted here. I see human beings and I am not intimidated or afraid. I am proud of them. So many people have been involved in this trauma and helped. If you let them search your property and were respectful - then you helped serve - even in a small way- to help make the community safer.

Quoting kcangel63:

Would you have the guts to say no?

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"live in the sunshine, swim the sea, drink the wild air..." Emerson 

buttersworth
by Bronze Member on Apr. 19, 2013 at 10:39 PM

 

Find the guy...do it legally....yes i like that.

Now, how do we know these two brothers were really the guys?

They had no trial. No jury. There are no photos showing either of these individuals doing anything illegal.

What if these guys were pegged because they looked a certain way. What if they were just there watchign the race?

What if they did do it, and they had help doing it?

We'd never know. They were just killed without a trial.

Quoting Farmlady09:

Suspending the rights of citizens seems to be one of the main goals of this administration, who by their own words will not let a good crisis go to waste. The people who are dealing with this need to stand up and say 'enough'. Find the guy, but do it legally.


 

kcangel63
by Amanda on Apr. 19, 2013 at 11:08 PM
Why shouldn't I be paranoid about my government?

"Senator Wants Suspect Held as Enemy Combatant

South Carolina Senator Lindsey Graham is demanding that the Constitution be discarded and the suspect be treated as an enemy combatant despite the fact he is American citizen. Graham said Tsarnaev should not be afforded the protection of the Fifth Amendment and suggested he be tortured to extract information.



It appears the Justice Department has decided to follow Graham’s advice. Tsarnaev was not read his Miranda rights under the public safety exception. The federal government’s high value detainee interrogation group will be responsible for questioning him, according to ABC News."


Sounds like guilty until proven innocent to me.


Quoting celticdragon77:

Yeah, well do you have the guts to be the next victim? Wtf! These people just had something terrorizing happen and they want the threat gone from the community. They do not want to be the next victim. The threat is not the police! Why are people SO afraid of their own country here. I don't understand it at all. Do you not know how truly free yet protected we really are here? It's not perfect and never can be. However, we are doing a decent job of it. If you don't agree with me, fine. But this particular situation is doubtfully the time for being paranoia of the government. It is a time when you stand up as an American and give these men and women the honor they deserve for risking their lives for us all. It is common sense and respect - or maybe we have lost that (and that's the the real shame). Btw, these images that you posted here. I see human beings and I am not intimidated or afraid. I am proud of them. So many people have been involved in this trauma and helped. If you let them search your property and were respectful - then you helped serve - even in a small way- to help make the community safer.

Quoting kcangel63:

Would you have the guts to say no?



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Posted on the NEW CafeMom Mobile
Farmlady09
by Silver Member on Apr. 19, 2013 at 11:25 PM
1 mom liked this

Only one of them was killed. The other one (last I read) was in custody and still alive. My personal thoughts on this are that it's likely they are scapegoats ~ but that's another topic entirely. Given all the military people we (DH and I) have, the general consensus is this was neither home-grown or foreign terrorism. This was something else. Unfortunately, the gov't. has the ability to cover that up.

The bottom line is that innocent or guilty, these two are taking the fall. I'd like to know for what ~ if they are innocent ~ but that is probably not going to happen.

And, none of that has squat to do with the OP ~ which is why we have cops barging into peoples' homes with no warrant and no threatening probable cause. Uncle Sammy and those who work for him need a time out, followed by a refresher course on our laws.


Quoting buttersworth:

 

Find the guy...do it legally....yes i like that.

Now, how do we know these two brothers were really the guys?

They had no trial. No jury. There are no photos showing either of these individuals doing anything illegal.

What if these guys were pegged because they looked a certain way. What if they were just there watchign the race?

What if they did do it, and they had help doing it?

We'd never know. They were just killed without a trial.

Quoting Farmlady09:

Suspending the rights of citizens seems to be one of the main goals of this administration, who by their own words will not let a good crisis go to waste. The people who are dealing with this need to stand up and say 'enough'. Find the guy, but do it legally.

 

 


 

eviesmom453
by on Apr. 19, 2013 at 11:27 PM

I bet the man who's boat held the guy wishes they had searched his property.

Quoting kcangel63:

I'd tell them to park across the street, off my property. That they can come in when they have a legal search warrant.

Quoting soonergirl980:


I haven't seen anyone complain about being forced to have their homes searched. People are allowed to let their homes be searched. If it were me I would welcome them in and offer them something to drink.


Quoting kcangel63:

It's unconstitutional. This just shows how screwed we would be if this was an organized group.



For now, we can cry "The Fed Coats Are Coming".




Quoting soonergirl980:

ok?





buttersworth
by Bronze Member on Apr. 19, 2013 at 11:34 PM

 well as Diane Feinstein said, she's no 6th grader. And neither are the rest of them ignorant to what the laws are. Albeit, if you were pulled over on the freeway for excessing the speed limit, you would not be let off because you were ignorant of what the speed limit was. Ignorance is no excuse for breaking the law, it is said. Same goes for the govt. Their ignorance would be inexcusable, and if their actions are not operating out of ignorance, then that's treason.


Quoting Farmlady09:

Only one of them was killed. The other one (last I read) was in custody and still alive. My personal thoughts on this are that it's likely they are scapegoats ~ but that's another topic entirely. Given all the military people we (DH and I) have, the general consensus is this was neither home-grown or foreign terrorism. This was something else. Unfortunately, the gov't. has the ability to cover that up.

The bottom line is that innocent or guilty, these two are taking the fall. I'd like to know for what ~ if they are innocent ~ but that is probably not going to happen.

And, none of that has squat to do with the OP ~ which is why we have cops barging into peoples' homes with no warrant and no threatening probable cause. Uncle Sammy and those who work for him need a time out, followed by a refresher course on our laws.

 

Quoting buttersworth:

 

Find the guy...do it legally....yes i like that.

Now, how do we know these two brothers were really the guys?

They had no trial. No jury. There are no photos showing either of these individuals doing anything illegal.

What if these guys were pegged because they looked a certain way. What if they were just there watchign the race?

What if they did do it, and they had help doing it?

We'd never know. They were just killed without a trial.

Quoting Farmlady09:

Suspending the rights of citizens seems to be one of the main goals of this administration, who by their own words will not let a good crisis go to waste. The people who are dealing with this need to stand up and say 'enough'. Find the guy, but do it legally.

 

 

 

 


 

buttersworth
by Bronze Member on Apr. 19, 2013 at 11:42 PM
1 mom liked this

 Those who give up Liberty for security end up with Neither.

Freedom isn't free.

very cliche but very appropriate right now

i want to know why two guys would want to terrorize a community. they get nothign out of terrorizing. but what the govt gets out of it is plenty. desensitizing people to warrantless searches. more justification to eliminate citizen's rights.

here's another one: crisis + reaction = solution


Quoting celticdragon77:

Yeah, well do you have the guts to be the next victim? Wtf! These people just had something terrorizing happen and they want the threat gone from the community. They do not want to be the next victim. The threat is not the police! Why are people SO afraid of their own country here. I don't understand it at all. Do you not know how truly free yet protected we really are here? It's not perfect and never can be. However, we are doing a decent job of it. If you don't agree with me, fine. But this particular situation is doubtfully the time for being paranoia of the government. It is a time when you stand up as an American and give these men and women the honor they deserve for risking their lives for us all. It is common sense and respect - or maybe we have lost that (and that's the the real shame). Btw, these images that you posted here. I see human beings and I am not intimidated or afraid. I am proud of them. So many people have been involved in this trauma and helped. If you let them search your property and were respectful - then you helped serve - even in a small way- to help make the community safer.

Quoting kcangel63:

Would you have the guts to say no?

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Farmlady09
by Silver Member on Apr. 19, 2013 at 11:48 PM

 Well, you should probably brace yourself then, because according to most cops, if 'you' are ignorant of the law, they don't have to obey it. I watched two tell a person they were 'exempt from the law' via a video taken by the man's son ... a man who fought as a soldier for this country and who did not break any law, but was cuffed and stuffed because he had the audacity to cite the correct law to the cops.

If you think the FBI, the CIA, or any one in the government is going to follow the law and hang themselves, you need to rethink. That is one of the reasons that not giving an inch on our rights is so important. One reason ~ there are others. Feinstein and most of the rest of our congresscritters have stated (while laughing) that they don't care about the Constitution OR the laws.

What I would like to know is if cops and our government don't care and/or don't have to follow the law, why does ANY citizen allow themselves to be forced to do so?

I'm glad I'm not in Boston right now. I'd likely have been arrested, simply for defending my own rights and insisting that a bunch of cops obey the law. Of course, if I lived in Boston I wouldn't be as well-armed as I am right now, so maybe for the citizens of Boston (who have voted for the crud that keeps chipping away at their rights) this search was the lessor of two evils (since they likely weren't capable of defending themselves.


Quoting buttersworth:

 well as Diane Feinstein said, she's no 6th grader. And neither are the rest of them ignorant to what the laws are. Albeit, if you were pulled over on the freeway for excessing the speed limit, you would not be let off because you were ignorant of what the speed limit was. Ignorance is no excuse for breaking the law, it is said. Same goes for the govt. Their ignorance would be inexcusable, and if their actions are not operating out of ignorance, then that's treason.

 

Quoting Farmlady09:

Only one of them was killed. The other one (last I read) was in custody and still alive. My personal thoughts on this are that it's likely they are scapegoats ~ but that's another topic entirely. Given all the military people we (DH and I) have, the general consensus is this was neither home-grown or foreign terrorism. This was something else. Unfortunately, the gov't. has the ability to cover that up.

The bottom line is that innocent or guilty, these two are taking the fall. I'd like to know for what ~ if they are innocent ~ but that is probably not going to happen.

And, none of that has squat to do with the OP ~ which is why we have cops barging into peoples' homes with no warrant and no threatening probable cause. Uncle Sammy and those who work for him need a time out, followed by a refresher course on our laws.

 

Quoting buttersworth:

 

Find the guy...do it legally....yes i like that.

Now, how do we know these two brothers were really the guys?

They had no trial. No jury. There are no photos showing either of these individuals doing anything illegal.

What if these guys were pegged because they looked a certain way. What if they were just there watchign the race?

What if they did do it, and they had help doing it?

We'd never know. They were just killed without a trial.

Quoting Farmlady09:

Suspending the rights of citizens seems to be one of the main goals of this administration, who by their own words will not let a good crisis go to waste. The people who are dealing with this need to stand up and say 'enough'. Find the guy, but do it legally.

 

 

 

 

 

 


 

TinasTribe
by Member on Apr. 19, 2013 at 11:48 PM
1 mom liked this

I think they should follow the law as well. If we were to search for ever murder like this they would invade every home in America. Not to be a jerk or anything but what makes these deaths any different than a drive by in Chicago or Detroit?  Isn't every crime a action to create fear? I do not find terrorism any different than any other murder. And frankly they have a video clip of two kids carrying back packs. We still have a little thing called the justice system in this nation, you know that whole crazy notion of innocent before proven guilty. And while we are at it lets find out the WHY if he does admit to his crimes... why would he do this? Who is he working for? Etc.  

Life is simple, We make it but we make it complicated. 

http://tinasblogok.blogspot.com/





buttersworth
by Bronze Member on Apr. 20, 2013 at 12:05 AM
1 mom liked this

 yes! I saw that video too. He asked if he was breaking a law, the cops said people saw him and were scared and that it wasn't about breaking the law, and he said to teh cops "well did you tell them the law?" I loved tht part, the cop looked very nervous as if you could read his mind, saying "Oh shit, this guy knows his rights."

I look at it this way.

Any law that is unconstitutional is illegal. it is therefore an illegitimate law.  Null and void.

Unfortunately, if anyone were to go up against an arrest due to an illegal law, their fate would now rest with the Supreme court, if they'd try them.

So Americans are at a cruxt of being right, or being safe out of tyrannical clutches. ALTHOUGH...towing the line of the tyrrants does not exclude one from being out of their clutches...so we have no other choice but to challenge them with the law of the land and hope the outcome is favorable.`

The saddest part is, most Americans have no clue they live in a burgeoning tyrannical state but will have to wait til their time comes, when they get harrassed even though they're innocent.

Quoting Farmlady09:

 Well, you should probably brace yourself then, because according to most cops, if 'you' are ignorant of the law, they don't have to obey it. I watched two tell a person they were 'exempt from the law' via a video taken by the man's son ... a man who fought as a soldier for this country and who did not break any law, but was cuffed and stuffed because he had the audacity to cite the correct law to the cops.

If you think the FBI, the CIA, or any one in the government is going to follow the law and hang themselves, you need to rethink. That is one of the reasons that not giving an inch on our rights is so important. One reason ~ there are others. Feinstein and most of the rest of our congresscritters have stated (while laughing) that they don't care about the Constitution OR the laws.

What I would like to know is if cops and our government don't care and/or don't have to follow the law, why does ANY citizen allow themselves to be forced to do so?

I'm glad I'm not in Boston right now. I'd likely have been arrested, simply for defending my own rights and insisting that a bunch of cops obey the law. Of course, if I lived in Boston I wouldn't be as well-armed as I am right now, so maybe for the citizens of Boston (who have voted for the crud that keeps chipping away at their rights) this search was the lessor of two evils (since they likely weren't capable of defending themselves.

 

Quoting buttersworth:

 well as Diane Feinstein said, she's no 6th grader. And neither are the rest of them ignorant to what the laws are. Albeit, if you were pulled over on the freeway for excessing the speed limit, you would not be let off because you were ignorant of what the speed limit was. Ignorance is no excuse for breaking the law, it is said. Same goes for the govt. Their ignorance would be inexcusable, and if their actions are not operating out of ignorance, then that's treason.

 

Quoting Farmlady09:

Only one of them was killed. The other one (last I read) was in custody and still alive. My personal thoughts on this are that it's likely they are scapegoats ~ but that's another topic entirely. Given all the military people we (DH and I) have, the general consensus is this was neither home-grown or foreign terrorism. This was something else. Unfortunately, the gov't. has the ability to cover that up.

The bottom line is that innocent or guilty, these two are taking the fall. I'd like to know for what ~ if they are innocent ~ but that is probably not going to happen.

And, none of that has squat to do with the OP ~ which is why we have cops barging into peoples' homes with no warrant and no threatening probable cause. Uncle Sammy and those who work for him need a time out, followed by a refresher course on our laws.

 

Quoting buttersworth:

 

Find the guy...do it legally....yes i like that.

Now, how do we know these two brothers were really the guys?

They had no trial. No jury. There are no photos showing either of these individuals doing anything illegal.

What if these guys were pegged because they looked a certain way. What if they were just there watchign the race?

What if they did do it, and they had help doing it?

We'd never know. They were just killed without a trial.

Quoting Farmlady09:

Suspending the rights of citizens seems to be one of the main goals of this administration, who by their own words will not let a good crisis go to waste. The people who are dealing with this need to stand up and say 'enough'. Find the guy, but do it legally.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


 

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