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Warrantless Searches In Boston?

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http://myfreedomfoundation.com/blog/liberty-live/detail/can-the-police-search-my-home-for-a-bomber

Can the Police Search My Home for a Bomber?

Today in Watertown, Massachusetts, law enforcement officials are going from house to house with trained SWAT team snipers drawing a bead on any occupants and instructing those occupants to exit the houses so the police can enter and search the premises.

Is this constitutional?

No.

Contrary to this article posted on Slate.com, constitutional rights do not evaporate whenever the government decides they would be inconvenient. Police have no right to expel citizens from their homes or to engage in warrantless searches of those homes just because the government declares that an emergency exists.

The Fourth Amendment makes clear that people have a right for their persons and homes to be secure against unreasonable searches and seizures, and that judges must not issue warrants permitting the government to intrude upon someone's home unless there is a clear reason to believe that a specific thing or person will be found in a specific, identified location. The Washington Constitution is even more protective of citizens' rights, stating that "no person shall be disturbed in his private affairs, or his home invaded, without authority of law."

Courts have, by-and-large, allowed certain exceptions to these constitutional rules, such as if the police see a potential criminal enter someone's property and there is no time to obtain the warrant that would otherwise be necessary to follow the suspect. This is known as the "hot pursuit" doctrine. Courts also usually recognize an exception if police believe that intruding on a citizen's property is necessary to assist someone threatened with immediate harm or injury.

But these exceptions do not apply to the circumstances in Watertown. The police do not know where the suspected criminal is, and they have no reason to believe that he is in any specific house in Watertown. Neither do they have any reason to believe that any specific citizen of Watertown is in immediate danger of harm or injury. And, importantly, they also have no reason to believe that any specific citizen is harboring the suspect in their home.

Thus, this entire operation is one gigantic fishing expedition - and that is precisely the sort of thing forbidden by the Fourth Amendment and Article I, section 7 of the Washington Constitution.

The police can warn people to be on the lookout for the suspect. They can ask for permission to search a citizen's home. But unless they have clear reason to believe that the suspect is on a specific property and that he might escape in the time necessary to obtain a warrant, the police cannot constitutionally force citizens out of their homes or engage in a warrantless search of those homes.

I can hear some people now saying, "But surely these are special circumstances..."

They are not, and it is extremely dangerous for the very idea of constitutional liberty to presume that citizens may be stripped of their rights whenever the government declares it necessary. History teaches us that one exception breeds another, and that pattern will continue until the exceptions destroy the rule. Once the principles of liberty have been sacrificed, it is exceptionally difficult for them to be recovered. We must remain vigilant and steadfast in our protection of our rights, and we must not allow fear to lead us to abandon those rights.
Posted on the NEW CafeMom Mobile
by on Apr. 19, 2013 at 5:43 PM
Replies (41-50):
kcangel63
by Amanda on Apr. 20, 2013 at 12:28 AM
As Bush said... "The Constitution is just a G** D***ed piece of paper." That's the mentality of all our leaders.

Quoting Farmlady09:

 Well, you should probably brace yourself then, because according to most cops, if 'you' are ignorant of the law, they don't have to obey it. I watched two tell a person they were 'exempt from the law' via a video taken by the man's son ... a man who fought as a soldier for this country and who did not break any law, but was cuffed and stuffed because he had the audacity to cite the correct law to the cops.


If you think the FBI, the CIA, or any one in the government is going to follow the law and hang themselves, you need to rethink. That is one of the reasons that not giving an inch on our rights is so important. One reason ~ there are others. Feinstein and most of the rest of our congresscritters have stated (while laughing) that they don't care about the Constitution OR the laws.


What I would like to know is if cops and our government don't care and/or don't have to follow the law, why does ANY citizen allow themselves to be forced to do so?


I'm glad I'm not in Boston right now. I'd likely have been arrested, simply for defending my own rights and insisting that a bunch of cops obey the law. Of course, if I lived in Boston I wouldn't be as well-armed as I am right now, so maybe for the citizens of Boston (who have voted for the crud that keeps chipping away at their rights) this search was the lessor of two evils (since they likely weren't capable of defending themselves.




Quoting buttersworth:


 well as Diane Feinstein said, she's no 6th grader. And neither are the rest of them ignorant to what the laws are. Albeit, if you were pulled over on the freeway for excessing the speed limit, you would not be let off because you were ignorant of what the speed limit was. Ignorance is no excuse for breaking the law, it is said. Same goes for the govt. Their ignorance would be inexcusable, and if their actions are not operating out of ignorance, then that's treason.


 


Quoting Farmlady09:


Only one of them was killed. The other one (last I read) was in custody and still alive. My personal thoughts on this are that it's likely they are scapegoats ~ but that's another topic entirely. Given all the military people we (DH and I) have, the general consensus is this was neither home-grown or foreign terrorism. This was something else. Unfortunately, the gov't. has the ability to cover that up.


The bottom line is that innocent or guilty, these two are taking the fall. I'd like to know for what ~ if they are innocent ~ but that is probably not going to happen.


And, none of that has squat to do with the OP ~ which is why we have cops barging into peoples' homes with no warrant and no threatening probable cause. Uncle Sammy and those who work for him need a time out, followed by a refresher course on our laws.


 


Quoting buttersworth:


 


Find the guy...do it legally....yes i like that.


Now, how do we know these two brothers were really the guys?


They had no trial. No jury. There are no photos showing either of these individuals doing anything illegal.


What if these guys were pegged because they looked a certain way. What if they were just there watchign the race?


What if they did do it, and they had help doing it?


We'd never know. They were just killed without a trial.


Quoting Farmlady09:


Suspending the rights of citizens seems to be one of the main goals of this administration, who by their own words will not let a good crisis go to waste. The people who are dealing with this need to stand up and say 'enough'. Find the guy, but do it legally.


 


 


 


 


 


 




 

Posted on the NEW CafeMom Mobile
grandmab125
by Platinum Member on Apr. 20, 2013 at 1:05 AM

 No photos, huh?  Notice the guys have backpacks in the first set of pictures.  Notice the guy in the white cap has no backpack in the second picture:

Quoting buttersworth:

 

Find the guy...do it legally....yes i like that.

Now, how do we know these two brothers were really the guys?

They had no trial. No jury. There are no photos showing either of these individuals doing anything illegal.

What if these guys were pegged because they looked a certain way. What if they were just there watchign the race?

What if they did do it, and they had help doing it?

We'd never know. They were just killed without a trial.

Quoting Farmlady09:

Suspending the rights of citizens seems to be one of the main goals of this administration, who by their own words will not let a good crisis go to waste. The people who are dealing with this need to stand up and say 'enough'. Find the guy, but do it legally.

 

 

 

grandma B

grandmab125
by Platinum Member on Apr. 20, 2013 at 1:21 AM

 I couldn't get the second picture to post.  But you can see it at: http://www.atlanticwire.com/national/2013/04boston-bombing-suspects-investigations/64341-100k.

Quoting buttersworth:

 

Find the guy...do it legally....yes i like that.

Now, how do we know these two brothers were really the guys?

They had no trial. No jury. There are no photos showing either of these individuals doing anything illegal.

What if these guys were pegged because they looked a certain way. What if they were just there watchign the race?

What if they did do it, and they had help doing it?

We'd never know. They were just killed without a trial.

Quoting Farmlady09:

Suspending the rights of citizens seems to be one of the main goals of this administration, who by their own words will not let a good crisis go to waste. The people who are dealing with this need to stand up and say 'enough'. Find the guy, but do it legally.

 

 

 

grandma B

grandmab125
by Platinum Member on Apr. 20, 2013 at 1:22 AM

 Good Lord, I can see the "Boston bombing truthers" lining up now.

kcangel63
by Amanda on Apr. 20, 2013 at 1:23 AM
LOL! I kept wondering if I was missing something in the other post. Thanks. ;)

Quoting grandmab125:

 I couldn't get the second picture to post.  But you can see it at: http://www.atlanticwire.com/national/2013/04boston-bombing-suspects-investigations/64341-100k.


Quoting buttersworth:


 


Find the guy...do it legally....yes i like that.


Now, how do we know these two brothers were really the guys?


They had no trial. No jury. There are no photos showing either of these individuals doing anything illegal.


What if these guys were pegged because they looked a certain way. What if they were just there watchign the race?


What if they did do it, and they had help doing it?


We'd never know. They were just killed without a trial.


Quoting Farmlady09:


Suspending the rights of citizens seems to be one of the main goals of this administration, who by their own words will not let a good crisis go to waste. The people who are dealing with this need to stand up and say 'enough'. Find the guy, but do it legally.


 


 


 

Posted on the NEW CafeMom Mobile
kcangel63
by Amanda on Apr. 20, 2013 at 1:25 AM
I don't know if he's guilty of innocent. I just hope there is a fair trail. I hope he doesn't mysteriously just die, or "commit suicide". Kind of like what happened to his brother.

If he did it, why? What was the motive? Was anyone else involved? Who?

If he didn't do it... Who did? Then same questions as above.


Quoting grandmab125:

 Good Lord, I can see the "Boston bombing truthers" lining up now.

Posted on the NEW CafeMom Mobile
Farmlady09
by Silver Member on Apr. 20, 2013 at 1:33 AM

I have a lot of cops in my family, and some are military cops. in their eyes, any officer who acts like the ones in that video need to get a new job, preferably in a prison somewhere ... on the inside. Unfortunately, most people can't be bothered with mundane things like learning and understanding the law ~ and too many are quite happy to give up their rights because they will be safer.

Gotta wonder how safe the people in Boston have felt the past few days (and that is not meant to be snarky, mean, or derogatory).  


Quoting buttersworth:

 yes! I saw that video too. He asked if he was breaking a law, the cops said people saw him and were scared and that it wasn't about breaking the law, and he said to teh cops "well did you tell them the law?" I loved tht part, the cop looked very nervous as if you could read his mind, saying "Oh shit, this guy knows his rights."

I look at it this way.

Any law that is unconstitutional is illegal. it is therefore an illegitimate law.  Null and void.

Unfortunately, if anyone were to go up against an arrest due to an illegal law, their fate would now rest with the Supreme court, if they'd try them.

So Americans are at a cruxt of being right, or being safe out of tyrannical clutches. ALTHOUGH...towing the line of the tyrrants does not exclude one from being out of their clutches...so we have no other choice but to challenge them with the law of the land and hope the outcome is favorable.`

The saddest part is, most Americans have no clue they live in a burgeoning tyrannical state but will have to wait til their time comes, when they get harrassed even though they're innocent.

Quoting Farmlady09:

 Well, you should probably brace yourself then, because according to most cops, if 'you' are ignorant of the law, they don't have to obey it. I watched two tell a person they were 'exempt from the law' via a video taken by the man's son ... a man who fought as a soldier for this country and who did not break any law, but was cuffed and stuffed because he had the audacity to cite the correct law to the cops.

If you think the FBI, the CIA, or any one in the government is going to follow the law and hang themselves, you need to rethink. That is one of the reasons that not giving an inch on our rights is so important. One reason ~ there are others. Feinstein and most of the rest of our congresscritters have stated (while laughing) that they don't care about the Constitution OR the laws.

What I would like to know is if cops and our government don't care and/or don't have to follow the law, why does ANY citizen allow themselves to be forced to do so?

I'm glad I'm not in Boston right now. I'd likely have been arrested, simply for defending my own rights and insisting that a bunch of cops obey the law. Of course, if I lived in Boston I wouldn't be as well-armed as I am right now, so maybe for the citizens of Boston (who have voted for the crud that keeps chipping away at their rights) this search was the lessor of two evils (since they likely weren't capable of defending themselves.

 

Quoting buttersworth:

 well as Diane Feinstein said, she's no 6th grader. And neither are the rest of them ignorant to what the laws are. Albeit, if you were pulled over on the freeway for excessing the speed limit, you would not be let off because you were ignorant of what the speed limit was. Ignorance is no excuse for breaking the law, it is said. Same goes for the govt. Their ignorance would be inexcusable, and if their actions are not operating out of ignorance, then that's treason.

 

Quoting Farmlady09:

Only one of them was killed. The other one (last I read) was in custody and still alive. My personal thoughts on this are that it's likely they are scapegoats ~ but that's another topic entirely. Given all the military people we (DH and I) have, the general consensus is this was neither home-grown or foreign terrorism. This was something else. Unfortunately, the gov't. has the ability to cover that up.

The bottom line is that innocent or guilty, these two are taking the fall. I'd like to know for what ~ if they are innocent ~ but that is probably not going to happen.

And, none of that has squat to do with the OP ~ which is why we have cops barging into peoples' homes with no warrant and no threatening probable cause. Uncle Sammy and those who work for him need a time out, followed by a refresher course on our laws.

 

Quoting buttersworth:

 

Find the guy...do it legally....yes i like that.

Now, how do we know these two brothers were really the guys?

They had no trial. No jury. There are no photos showing either of these individuals doing anything illegal.

What if these guys were pegged because they looked a certain way. What if they were just there watchign the race?

What if they did do it, and they had help doing it?

We'd never know. They were just killed without a trial.

Quoting Farmlady09:

Suspending the rights of citizens seems to be one of the main goals of this administration, who by their own words will not let a good crisis go to waste. The people who are dealing with this need to stand up and say 'enough'. Find the guy, but do it legally.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


 

celticdragon77
by on Apr. 20, 2013 at 1:34 AM
1 mom liked this
I am just speaking for myself. I personally have no issue with police requesting to search my house in certain situations. And in fact, I am not thinking about just this incident at all. This week, I woke up to loud noises and lights shining about. I looked out the window and saw a helicopter going around in a circular pattern with a spotlight, police cars driving with spotlights (and I mean a lot of them) and police men on foot canvassing my neighborhood. A scene that would alarm anyone. I had NO idea what was going. I check online, no recent news for my small town (that is centrally located to bigger cities). I watch this activity for almost an hour. Still no news on it. My husband decides we should take the kids to his parents house because he is concerned this is very serious. We drive through the town and we are shocked by the massive amount of police and roadblocks. We end up going back home due to it. We go to get back in the house and a police officer rounds the corner. Spotlights on us and we are questioned and then told to stay indoors. We obey and had the kids sleep with us. We eventually fell asleep not knowing what all hoopla was about. A day later, it turns out that a guy carjacked someone an hour away from here, led state polic on a lengthy high speed chase that ended in our small town. A policeman hit the suspects car because he was still traveling at 120mph at 8pm in a small town where the speed limit is 25mph and there are a lot of pedestrians (even at night). So the suspects car is totaled, he jumps out and was on foot, running loose in our town. They never found the guy. He was armed. And to be frank, had they asked or even requested to look in my house, I would have very happily obliged!!! I would want the suspect brought in and questioned, have a trial, etc. The world is more crazy and scary now. I don't have to watch the national or international news to see it. I can see it in my local communities. It is a dark time!!! People are lost in so many ways. I just try to live the best life I can each and every day. Conscious of what kind of world I live in and careful with how I interact within it - and what I contribute to it. I believe in freedom, the constitution, America, the people, etc. I like that we live in a country where the police (in general) try to protect and serve. They are one of the community (people who usually grew up here and have family here). I am thankful they do not look the other way to crime and allow to grow rampant (at least TRY to combat it). I am glad they can't (usually) be bribed to look the other way. In the communities I have lived in (I have lived in 5different states), this has been the reality. They are good people serving the public. Risking their lives, to save another's!! So yeah, I am MORE concerned in these types of situations with allowing the police to search my property and protect my safety - and that of my family. But again, this is just MY opinion.
Quoting TinasTribe:

I think they should follow the law as well. If we were to search for ever murder like this they would invade every home in America. Not to be a jerk or anything but what makes these deaths any different than a drive by in Chicago or Detroit?  Isn't every crime a action to create fear? I do not find terrorism any different than any other murder. And frankly they have a video clip of two kids carrying back packs. We still have a little thing called the justice system in this nation, you know that whole crazy notion of innocent before proven guilty. And while we are at it lets find out the WHY if he does admit to his crimes... why would he do this? Who is he working for? Etc.  

"live in the sunshine, swim the sea, drink the wild air..." Emerson 

Farmlady09
by Silver Member on Apr. 20, 2013 at 1:35 AM
1 mom liked this

Worse, if you read enough posts here on cm, it's an unimportant, out-dated, moldering old piece of paper that needs to be rewritten.

Sometimes I want to ask them just what on earth they would replace it with ... but I'm more afraid of the answers I'd likely get than I am of any terrorist. Sigh.


Quoting kcangel63:

As Bush said... "The Constitution is just a G** D***ed piece of paper." That's the mentality of all our leaders.

Quoting Farmlady09:

 Well, you should probably brace yourself then, because according to most cops, if 'you' are ignorant of the law, they don't have to obey it. I watched two tell a person they were 'exempt from the law' via a video taken by the man's son ... a man who fought as a soldier for this country and who did not break any law, but was cuffed and stuffed because he had the audacity to cite the correct law to the cops.


If you think the FBI, the CIA, or any one in the government is going to follow the law and hang themselves, you need to rethink. That is one of the reasons that not giving an inch on our rights is so important. One reason ~ there are others. Feinstein and most of the rest of our congresscritters have stated (while laughing) that they don't care about the Constitution OR the laws.


What I would like to know is if cops and our government don't care and/or don't have to follow the law, why does ANY citizen allow themselves to be forced to do so?


I'm glad I'm not in Boston right now. I'd likely have been arrested, simply for defending my own rights and insisting that a bunch of cops obey the law. Of course, if I lived in Boston I wouldn't be as well-armed as I am right now, so maybe for the citizens of Boston (who have voted for the crud that keeps chipping away at their rights) this search was the lessor of two evils (since they likely weren't capable of defending themselves.


 


Quoting buttersworth:


 well as Diane Feinstein said, she's no 6th grader. And neither are the rest of them ignorant to what the laws are. Albeit, if you were pulled over on the freeway for excessing the speed limit, you would not be let off because you were ignorant of what the speed limit was. Ignorance is no excuse for breaking the law, it is said. Same goes for the govt. Their ignorance would be inexcusable, and if their actions are not operating out of ignorance, then that's treason.


 


Quoting Farmlady09:


Only one of them was killed. The other one (last I read) was in custody and still alive. My personal thoughts on this are that it's likely they are scapegoats ~ but that's another topic entirely. Given all the military people we (DH and I) have, the general consensus is this was neither home-grown or foreign terrorism. This was something else. Unfortunately, the gov't. has the ability to cover that up.


The bottom line is that innocent or guilty, these two are taking the fall. I'd like to know for what ~ if they are innocent ~ but that is probably not going to happen.


And, none of that has squat to do with the OP ~ which is why we have cops barging into peoples' homes with no warrant and no threatening probable cause. Uncle Sammy and those who work for him need a time out, followed by a refresher course on our laws.


 


Quoting buttersworth:


 


Find the guy...do it legally....yes i like that.


Now, how do we know these two brothers were really the guys?


They had no trial. No jury. There are no photos showing either of these individuals doing anything illegal.


What if these guys were pegged because they looked a certain way. What if they were just there watchign the race?


What if they did do it, and they had help doing it?


We'd never know. They were just killed without a trial.


Quoting Farmlady09:


Suspending the rights of citizens seems to be one of the main goals of this administration, who by their own words will not let a good crisis go to waste. The people who are dealing with this need to stand up and say 'enough'. Find the guy, but do it legally.


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 

grandmab125
by Platinum Member on Apr. 20, 2013 at 1:45 AM

 Not finding a terroristic attack on thousands of people any different than a drive by shooting in Chicago, is pretty twisted thinking....not that every death isn't tragic.

Why the hell do you think the cops didn't shoot that boat full of holes or blow it up with a grenade?  Could it be because they wanted him alive to interrogate?  You can't get info out of a dead person.  Common sense would tell you that they are hoping to get info out of him about any others that may have been involved...did they act alone on this, or were they part of a cell?

Quoting TinasTribe:

I think they should follow the law as well. If we were to search for ever murder like this they would invade every home in America. Not to be a jerk or anything but what makes these deaths any different than a drive by in Chicago or Detroit?  Isn't every crime a action to create fear? I do not find terrorism any different than any other murder. And frankly they have a video clip of two kids carrying back packs. We still have a little thing called the justice system in this nation, you know that whole crazy notion of innocent before proven guilty. And while we are at it lets find out the WHY if he does admit to his crimes... why would he do this? Who is he working for? Etc.  

 

grandma B

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