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News & Politics News & Politics

Who is really lying in the gun debate?

Posted by on Apr. 21, 2013 at 1:19 AM
  • 17 Replies



By 

Published April 18, 2013


After failing to get his gun control bill passed by the Senate Wednesday, President Obama lashed out at his usual favorite targets, "the gun lobby" and Republicans. 

He claimed "the gun lobby and its allies willfully lied about the bill." He scolded "senators [who] could not offer any good reason" to oppose the legislation. And sharing the stage with some of the heartbroken families from Newtown, Connecticut, he attacked Republicans as being unwilling to "protect the lives of all our children."

But who is really lying in the gun debate? Mr. Obama's case in favor of background checks rests on two false claims that he keeps repeating: “as many as 40 percent of all gun purchases take place without a background check” and that "background checks have kept more than 2 million dangerous people from buying a gun.”


It is one thing for Obama to claim that he disagrees with what Republicans think works. It is something entirely different to say that Republicans don't care about the deaths of young children.


Yet his claims only make sense if you ignore that the vast majority of these "purchases" are within family gifts and inheritances and that these "dangerous" people are actually law-abiding citizens who were accidentally stopped from buying a gun simply because they have a name that is similar to a criminal's.

It is one thing for Obama to claim that he disagrees with what Republicans think works. It is something entirely different to say that Republicans don't care about the deaths of young children or that they are purposefully letting those deaths happen. 

People who oppose Obama's policies could just as easily say that by not fixing the background checks system that stops 2 million law-abiding citizens from buying guns, and delays more than 12 million more, that Obama also wants people to die -- that he wants to prevent people who quickly need guns for protection from obtaining them. 

But would demonizing our president that way be useful? Would it really help get everyone together to help make a deal?

So did Obama really want to get the gun bill passed or was he just trying to position himself politically to attack Republicans? 

There were several simple and obvious things that he could have done that very likely could have gotten the Manchin-Toomey gun control compromise passed:

- Suppose that, despite the evidence, Obama is right that expanded background checks will reduce crime. Everyone would benefit, not just those legally buying guns, right? 

In that case, everyone, not just gun owners, should pay for the cost of running background checks. Unfortunately, the checks being considered by the Senate make only gun buyers pay the costs.

Fix: Pay for the background checks out of general revenue.

- Obama could also finally agree to get the problems with the current background system fixed so that many law-abiding citizens who are stopped or delayed from being able to buy a gun would be able to do so. 

Fix: It would be nice if the system finally lived up to its name of being an "instant check."

If the president doesn't want to pick up the costs of fixing the system, then maybe he can explain why he doesn't think the costs are worth it.


John R. Lott, Jr. is an economist and former chief economist at the United States Sentencing Commission, he is also a leading expert on guns. He is the author of several books, including "More Guns, Less Crime."

by on Apr. 21, 2013 at 1:19 AM
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Replies (1-10):
PTmomma3
by Member on Apr. 21, 2013 at 2:24 AM
I just glanced over the article you posted about Obama telling us to wait to form opinions on the bombing suspects, which is insulting, not to mention impossible with social media and news stations airing it 24/7. I agree with you, it's ridiculous.

But, come on, even you can't agree with any of the bullshit in this article, can you?
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Carpy
by Platinum Member on Apr. 21, 2013 at 7:43 AM
4 moms liked this

I can.  Why can't you?  I have not had anyone fail a background check because people who would, know they would and rarely try to legally purchase a gun.  Online purchases must be recieved by an FFL and in most states a background check must still be ran and the transfer recorded just as if i sold the gun myself.

Quoting PTmomma3:

I just glanced over the article you posted about Obama telling us to wait to form opinions on the bombing suspects, which is insulting, not to mention impossible with social media and news stations airing it 24/7. I agree with you, it's ridiculous.

But, come on, even you can't agree with any of the bullshit in this article, can you?


SallyMJ
by Ruby Member on Apr. 21, 2013 at 10:48 AM
2 moms liked this

BS? From a gun crime expert who uses scientific economics methods to study solutions for gun crime that actually have been proven to work?

And who says it is outrageously unfair to accuse those who have a different strategy for achieving the same goal of decreased gun violence?

And who points out that Obama thinks only his ideas are worthy, and those whom he disagrees with politically are "liars, liars, pants on fire", stupid, evil, and full of BS - as you do?

Please - with all due respect, you, dear - and the King of America, Barack the First - are the ones full of BS. Oops.


Quoting PTmomma3:

I just glanced over the article you posted about Obama telling us to wait to form opinions on the bombing suspects, which is insulting, not to mention impossible with social media and news stations airing it 24/7. I agree with you, it's ridiculous.

But, come on, even you can't agree with any of the bullshit in this article, can you?



Mystres
by Member on Apr. 21, 2013 at 9:07 PM
1 mom liked this

Criminals don't get guns legally.  So this will not do jack.  And any ways to carry a gun legally you need a gun Permit That requires a background check.   

What they want basically leads to gun registration.  And we all know from history that Gun registration leads to gun confiscation that leaves law abiding citizens defenseless and crime rates rise.  


It has already happined look at Germany. China. England(uk), Australia

http://rense.com/general81/ligun.htm


tnmomofive
by Silver Member on Apr. 21, 2013 at 9:14 PM
2 moms liked this

Quoting Mystres:

Criminals don't get guns legally.  So this will not do jack.  And any ways to parry a gun legally you need a gu. Permit That requires a background check.   

What they want basically leads to gun registration.  And we all know from history that Gun registration leads to gun confiscation that leaves law abiding citizens defenseless and crime rates rise.  

It has already happined look at Germany. China. England(uk), Australia

http://rense.com/general81/ligun.htm



Right and now with Islamic terrorists coming out of the woodwork here again all the more reason to keep our rights.
Farmlady09
by Silver Member on Apr. 21, 2013 at 9:53 PM
2 moms liked this

Just to clarify ~ I clicked the like button instead of the quote button ... and I fixed that because I do not 'like'.

What is BS is any administration spewing the lies they have about guns and gun control, about gun owners, about crime stats, and most of all using grieving family members as 'props' in a poorly veiled attempt to guilt people into doing what they (O in particular) want.

No one who owns a gun is going to deny that guns kill things. No responsible gun owner is going to be against background checks.

NO responsible US citizen is going to support this ridiculous (imo just one more ridiculous freedom snatch from a long line of the same from this admin) effort to convince us to give up a Constitutional right, to chip away at that right, or to just bow down and do what the wanna-be king wants.

Why not? He spits on our allies. He kisses the patootie of our enemies and bows (more like grovels like a scared puppy) before them. He cuts funding to our military and cries poverty even while he's sending fighter jets to terrorists that have sworn we're next. He says the Constitution gets in his way.

Ya know what? I am GLAD the Constitution gets in his way. That second amendment he wants to delete was written to prevent scum such as he from taking over from 'we the people' ~ and I am very certain that his temper tantrum when this bill didn't pass happened because now he has to swallow the fact that not only is that pesky Constitution in his way ~ but so are ALL of the legal, law-abiding gun owners that are watching him so closely (along with the congresscritters that forgot their own oaths of office).

Laws don't mean squat to criminals or the insane. The only thing a law can do is punish someone who has done wrong. Law abiding gun owners have done nothing wrong and in NO way deserve to be punished.

If you want gun control go buy one, register it, train with it, and learn how to hit what you aim at. That is gun control. Practice what you preach!

If you want safety go to jail ~ they will feed you, clothe you, give you medical care, etc. They will give you everything but freedom.

Neither my liberty nor my freedom is up for negotiation by scared (or brainwashed) people.

 

Quoting PTmomma3:

I just glanced over the article you posted about Obama telling us to wait to form opinions on the bombing suspects, which is insulting, not to mention impossible with social media and news stations airing it 24/7. I agree with you, it's ridiculous.

But, come on, even you can't agree with any of the bullshit in this article, can you?

 

 

29again
by Gold Member on Apr. 21, 2013 at 9:58 PM
1 mom liked this

I have one rule that I live by.... if what this admin says conflicts with something, then the admin is lying.  That one has been proven to me too many times for me to doubt it any longer.

mommygiggles317
by Silver Member on Apr. 21, 2013 at 10:38 PM


Quoting Mystres:

Criminals don't get guns legally.  So this will not do jack.  And any ways to carry a gun legally you need a gun Permit That requires a background check.   

What they want basically leads to gun registration.  And we all know from history that Gun registration leads to gun confiscation that leaves law abiding citizens defenseless and crime rates rise.  


It has already happined look at Germany. China. England(uk), Australia

http://rense.com/general81/ligun.htm


You know what... you are absolutely right!!! Criminals do not get guns legally... they buy them from people who can. People who do not give a damn about selling guns at top dollar to criminals, just so they can pay their bills or support their habits and hat not. That's the damn problem. So what do we do about people who have the legal right to arm themselves and, help criminals obtain guns as well?... The black market for guns is huge... 

love you signExercising Knowledge, Wisdom and Understanding...

Mystres
by Member on Apr. 21, 2013 at 11:46 PM
1 mom liked this
That's like asking what are we going to do about people who put have alcohol to give to under aged kids. You really can't do any thing about it unless you bust them doing it.

You shouldn't punish 10000s for the stupid act of a few. And I don't know who you are hanging out with, but any one I know that would do a private gun sale has made sure whom they sale to has a permit before completing the transaction.

Oh and can't find spell check on cell so oops if misspelled words


Quoting mommygiggles317:


Quoting Mystres:

Criminals don't get guns legally.  So this will not do jack.  And any ways to carry a gun legally you need a gun Permit That requires a background check.   

What they want basically leads to gun registration.  And we all know from history that Gun registration leads to gun confiscation that leaves law abiding citizens defenseless and crime rates rise.  


It has already happined look at Germany. China. England(uk), Australia

http://rense.com/general81/ligun.htm


You know what... you are absolutely right!!! Criminals do not get guns legally... they buy them from people who can. People who do not give a damn about selling guns at top dollar to criminals, just so they can pay their bills or support their habits and hat not. That's the damn problem. So what do we do about people who have the legal right to arm themselves and, help criminals obtain guns as well?... The black market for guns is huge... 


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PTmomma3
by Member on Apr. 23, 2013 at 11:43 AM
Actually I was more referring to this guy's statements that taxpayers should shoulder the costs of background checks and implying that all of the millions of people who fail background checks have been innocent victims of a broken system and many of them have likely died before the 3 days it took to get the gun they needed to save them. There are so many things wrong with this that I don't know where to begin. And it wouldn't matter anyway. None of you believe these things either so there's no point in arguing them. If you can have a clear conscience about the violence all around us then there's really nothing more to add. Personally I'd be agreeable to ANY idea at this point. Background checks don't work, you say? Then let's end them. We need armed guards and teachers in school to protect our kids? Then let's try it and see. More people having guns will make us safer? Then let's make sure every citizen has one, even if that means giving them away for free.

Oh wait, I bet that last one went a step too far for you, right?


Quoting Carpy:

I can.  Why can't you?  I have not had anyone fail a background check because people who would, know they would and rarely try to legally purchase a gun.  Online purchases must be recieved by an FFL and in most states a background check must still be ran and the transfer recorded just as if i sold the gun myself.

Quoting PTmomma3:

I just glanced over the article you posted about Obama telling us to wait to form opinions on the bombing suspects, which is insulting, not to mention impossible with social media and news stations airing it 24/7. I agree with you, it's ridiculous.



But, come on, even you can't agree with any of the bullshit in this article, can you?


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