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News & Politics News & Politics

Obamacare or the Debt Ceiling

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Republicans are winning the shutdown fight, and Democrats know it.

People turning on the news this week came away with the knowledge that it was about Obamacare and kept hearing that Democrats wouldn’t negotiate. They also learned that for some reason the President didn’t want Word War II veterans to tour their own memorial, and Harry Reid won’t turn the funding on for cancer clinical trials at the NIH. Oh, and the rollout for Obamacare is one big glitch.

Late yesterday came word that the Amber Alert system has been shut down, but Barack Obama’s federally funded golf course remains open. Catholics are openly fretting that priests on military bases could get arrested for performing mass — at the very least they are prohibited from doing so.

The President had to invite Congressional Leaders to talk, Harry Reid had to sit down with Dana Bash of CNN to explain himself, the shutdown coverage overall started to recede by Friday, and the Democrats began to shift the conversation to the debt limit.

The polls are shifting against the Democrats. They will continue to shift as more and more Americans realize that this fight is fundamentally about the letter they just received informing them of massive premium increases.

But the problem is that the expiration of the debt limit is on October 17th (or thereabouts, as the President manipulates it) and both Democrats and Republican Leadership have an incentive to merge a “grand bargain” to increase the debt limit with a continuing resolution that funds Obamacare. Both sides get to change the conversation–one to protect an unpopular law and the other to minimize political risk by reverting back to the norm–and get past two critical leverage points with a blend of GOP and Democrat votes.

The result will be no substantial changes to Obamacare. It will be funded in its entirety. Sure, they will repeal the medical device tax and maybe add the Vitter language to have the illusion that Congress is going to live under Obamacare. Nothing real though.

Don’t believe me? Listen to the reporting. Its all grand bargain and debt limit. The negotiations do not include Obamacare.

So the question is do we want to stop Obamacare or do we want to stop the debt ceiling increase? My view is that we cannot do both at the same time. We might dare to dream, but the debt ceiling will be increased one way or the other.

Right now the GOP is holding up very well in the press and public opinion because it is clear they want negotiations. The GOP keeps passing legislation to fund departments of government. It has put the Democrats in an awkward position.

But the moment the GOP refuses to raise the debt ceiling, we are going to have problems. Remember, the last time you and I wanted the GOP to fight on the debt ceiling, the attacks from our own side were particularly vicious.

They’ve been vicious over the shutdown too, but now that we are here, the water ain’t so bad and only a few ankle biting yappers continue to take shots at conservatives from the GOP side.

It will not be so with the debt ceiling. And the GOP will no longer seem very reasonable. The debt ceiling fight will become an impediment to undermining Obamacare.

It is what Republican leaders want. They are hoping for us to be recalcitrant and angry over the debt ceiling increase. They want to appear to shove us off by raising it. They know they can’t fight us on Obamacare because the public hates Obamacare. But they know they can on the debt ceiling because of the specter of default.

So what should we do? I think somebody like Steve Scalise, who chairs the Republican Study Committee, needs to propose a short-term debt limit for a few weeks and attach to it the Full Faith and Credit Act that ensures the Treasury Department prioritizes interest payments in the event the debt limit is ever not increased. This would buy us some time to finish the fight to defund Obamacare and set us up well to fight the next long-term debt limit increase to the death by removing some of the President’s scare tactics. How do Republican Leaders not adopt and push such a proposal? How does Obama not accept it without looking completely unreasonable?

Regardless, the only path to victory in this shutdown is to keep our fire on Obamacare and our focus on the defunding effort. We can still undermine Obamacare, but we need to resist the attempt to merge this with the debt limit and hold the line on the continuing resolution. Otherwise we will lose on both

by on Oct. 7, 2013 at 10:41 AM
Replies (11-20):
Billiejeens
by Ruby Member on Oct. 7, 2013 at 5:37 PM
Quoting gludwig2000:

Even though the ride on the party bus is free, sometimes you should get off for a bit to get some fresh air. Maybe then you will realize just how insulting your comments really are.


Quoting Billiejeens:

 


Seriously?


Dems are going to think that is some type of slur regarding him not getting his vitamins or something.


Quoting SallyMJ:

The Debt Ceiling is more important.


I hope the Republicans get the Dems to negotiate. Some pundits say O looked better in the first few days, but the longer it drags out, people will realize its O who is being recalcitrant.




 





Don't act like any Obama supporter knew what that word means.

Billiejeens
by Ruby Member on Oct. 7, 2013 at 5:40 PM
Quoting JanuaryBaby06:

The President had to invite Congressional Leaders to talk, Harry Reid had to sit down with Dana Bash of CNN to explain himself, the shutdown coverage overall started to recede by Friday, and the Democrats began to shift the conversation to the debt limit.


Makes sense....the Debt Limit is much more important and we are getting alittle close for comfort.




who cares


We have to crash the system to fix the system.

gludwig2000
by Gina on Oct. 7, 2013 at 5:41 PM
1 mom liked this
It means reluctant to do something, right? Obama supporter
Quoting Billiejeens:

Quoting gludwig2000:

Even though the ride on the party bus is free, sometimes you should get off for a bit to get some fresh air. Maybe then you will realize just how insulting your comments really are.


Quoting Billiejeens:

 


Seriously?


Dems are going to think that is some type of slur regarding him not getting his vitamins or something.


Quoting SallyMJ:

The Debt Ceiling is more important.


I hope the Republicans get the Dems to negotiate. Some pundits say O looked better in the first few days, but the longer it drags out, people will realize its O who is being recalcitrant.




 





Don't act like any Obama supporter knew what that word means.

sarahjz
by Bronze Member on Oct. 7, 2013 at 5:43 PM
3 moms liked this

Sadly, nobody is winning.  :(

jcrew6
by Jenney on Oct. 7, 2013 at 5:49 PM
3 moms liked this

Something drastic needs to happen in order to get real change in this nation.   

What's definition of insanity? And why is Obama and Reid's photo next to the word in the dictionary? Lol.. 

Farmlady09
by Silver Member on Oct. 7, 2013 at 6:01 PM
3 moms liked this

No, it means to be obstinately uncooperative ... which is quite a few steps up from reluctant. Libertarian, but leaning towards anarchy. 


Quoting gludwig2000:

It means reluctant to do something, right? Obama supporter
Quoting Billiejeens:

Quoting gludwig2000:

Even though the ride on the party bus is free, sometimes you should get off for a bit to get some fresh air. Maybe then you will realize just how insulting your comments really are.


Quoting Billiejeens:

 


Seriously?


Dems are going to think that is some type of slur regarding him not getting his vitamins or something.


Quoting SallyMJ:

The Debt Ceiling is more important.


I hope the Republicans get the Dems to negotiate. Some pundits say O looked better in the first few days, but the longer it drags out, people will realize its O who is being recalcitrant.



 


 





Don't act like any Obama supporter knew what that word means.


 

gludwig2000
by Gina on Oct. 7, 2013 at 6:05 PM
1 mom liked this
Thanks for the lesson, but it still means reluctant, just to a higher degree, right? See, GED here, and while I couldn't give the exact definition as you did, I did know what the word meant.
Quoting Farmlady09:

No, it means to be obstinately uncooperative ... which is quite a few steps up from reluctant. Libertarian, but leaning towards anarchy. 


Quoting gludwig2000:

It means reluctant to do something, right? Obama supporter
Quoting Billiejeens:

Quoting gludwig2000:

Even though the ride on the party bus is free, sometimes you should get off for a bit to get some fresh air. Maybe then you will realize just how insulting your comments really are.


Quoting Billiejeens:

 


Seriously?


Dems are going to think that is some type of slur regarding him not getting his vitamins or something.


Quoting SallyMJ:

The Debt Ceiling is more important.


I hope the Republicans get the Dems to negotiate. Some pundits say O looked better in the first few days, but the longer it drags out, people will realize its O who is being recalcitrant.



 


 





Don't act like any Obama supporter knew what that word means.


 

marchantmom06
by Bronze Member on Oct. 7, 2013 at 6:20 PM
1 mom liked this
Do you know the stats of office holders?

House

Membership
435 Members
5 Delegates
1 Resident
Commissioner
Party Divisions
232 Republicans
200 Democrats
0 Independents
3 Vacancies

Then If a majority of the Representatives say or select yes, the bill passes in the U.S. House of Representatives. The bill is then certified by the Clerk of the House and delivered to the U.S. Senate.

Senate

Membership
100 Senators
(Vice President votes in case of a tie)
Party Divisions
52 Democrats
46 Republicans
2 Independents

Then
Senators vote by voice. Those who support the bill say “yea,” and those who oppose it say “nay.” If a majority of the Senators say “yea,” the bill passes in the U.S. Senate and is ready to go to the President.

If no republicans voted it would not have made it out of the house.





Quoting Billiejeens:

 


No that's false.


It "passed" with out a single Republican Vote in either house.


Quoting marchantmom06:

Oh there you go again. Which of the seats do you hold that has you in the meetings? Or are you just assuming anyone is doing anything to uphold the constitution.
You forget these are the same people who passed Obamacare over 3 years ago. And now they want to act concerned to get re elected.

None of those fools are for the American people or they would have voted to not receive their 91 million dollar collective salary.



Quoting SallyMJ:


We have a president and the Senate majority leader who won't negotiate.


And the House doing their Constitutional responsibility under Section 7.


Your point again?


Quoting marchantmom06:

I'm pretty sure we will lose on both anyways. With a president that won't negotiate, and parties only out for themselves, the people are the only ones who get screwed.







 


Posted on CafeMom Mobile
marchantmom06
by Bronze Member on Oct. 7, 2013 at 6:30 PM
1 mom liked this
The following 25 Republicans stood shoulder to shoulder with Senator Harry Reid and President Obama to fund ObamaCare:

Alexander

Ayotte

Barrasso

Blunt

Boozman

Burr

Chambliss

Chiesa

Coats

Coburn

Cochran

Collins

Corker

Cornyn

Graham

Hoeven

Isakson

Johanns

Johnson (WI)

Kirk

McCain

McConnell

Murkowski

Thune

Wicker




Quoting Billiejeens:

 


No that's false.


It "passed" with out a single Republican Vote in either house.


Quoting marchantmom06:

Oh there you go again. Which of the seats do you hold that has you in the meetings? Or are you just assuming anyone is doing anything to uphold the constitution.
You forget these are the same people who passed Obamacare over 3 years ago. And now they want to act concerned to get re elected.

None of those fools are for the American people or they would have voted to not receive their 91 million dollar collective salary.



Quoting SallyMJ:


We have a president and the Senate majority leader who won't negotiate.


And the House doing their Constitutional responsibility under Section 7.


Your point again?


Quoting marchantmom06:

I'm pretty sure we will lose on both anyways. With a president that won't negotiate, and parties only out for themselves, the people are the only ones who get screwed.







 


Posted on CafeMom Mobile
Farmlady09
by Silver Member on Oct. 7, 2013 at 6:32 PM
2 moms liked this

Reluctant and obstinate are not the same thing. Obstinate is stubborn. Reluctant is hesitant.

One is militantly refusing ~ one is showing doubt or not being eager to do something.

Obama is obstinately uncooperative. There is nothing reluctant or hesitant about his statements or actions.


Quoting gludwig2000:

Thanks for the lesson, but it still means reluctant, just to a higher degree, right? See, GED here, and while I couldn't give the exact definition as you did, I did know what the word meant.
Quoting Farmlady09:

No, it means to be obstinately uncooperative ... which is quite a few steps up from reluctant. Libertarian, but leaning towards anarchy. 

 

Quoting gludwig2000:

It means reluctant to do something, right? Obama supporter
Quoting Billiejeens:

Quoting gludwig2000:

Even though the ride on the party bus is free, sometimes you should get off for a bit to get some fresh air. Maybe then you will realize just how insulting your comments really are.


Quoting Billiejeens:

 


Seriously?


Dems are going to think that is some type of slur regarding him not getting his vitamins or something.


Quoting SallyMJ:

The Debt Ceiling is more important.


I hope the Republicans get the Dems to negotiate. Some pundits say O looked better in the first few days, but the longer it drags out, people will realize its O who is being recalcitrant.



 


 





Don't act like any Obama supporter knew what that word means.

 

 


 

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