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Fox News guest: ‘Obamacare is a war on bros’ because rates are same as women

Posted by on Nov. 5, 2013 at 11:37 AM
  • 24 Replies

Fox News guest: ‘Obamacare is a war on bros’ because rates are same as women


Tuesday, November 5, 2013 10:01 EST
Avik Roy speaks to Fox News

Forbes blogger Avik Roy claimed on Tuesday that President Barack Obama’s health care reform law was a “war on bros” because men and women will now have to pay the same rates for insurance.

Roy, who also works for the Manhattan Institute, told Fox & Friends host Steve Doocy that he had determined that several states’ average premiums could increase over 130 percent under the Affordable Care Act.

“And that’s an average,” he explained. “So, the key thing to understand is Obamacare is a war on bros. It’s young men in particular who are going to pay a lot more. Young people are going to pay more, men are going to pay more relative to women and healthy people are going to pay more relative to sick people.”

According to The Washington Post, insurance companies sometimes charged women up to ten times more than men before the Affordable Care Act made discrimination illegal.

And starting in 2014, insurance companies will be barred from charging sick people or people with pre-existing conditions more for insurance.

by on Nov. 5, 2013 at 11:37 AM
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Replies (1-10):
SallyMJ
by Ruby Member on Nov. 5, 2013 at 11:48 AM
4 moms liked this

Because discrimination is legal when Obama says it is.

Just like under any tyrant.

JanuaryBaby06
by Gold Member on Nov. 5, 2013 at 3:01 PM
1 mom liked this

War on bros..... really? Because they are now being expect to pay as much as their counter part? IMO, charging woman more was never right in the first place.

SallyMJ
by Ruby Member on Nov. 5, 2013 at 3:20 PM
2 moms liked this

No, the point is that men use considerably less health care dollars. Which is why it is cheaper to insure men than women. Which is why men's premiums were lower than women's.

And women live longer then men. Which is why women's life insurance premiums in general are lower than men's.

Just plain old statistics.

Numbers are neutral.

Quoting JanuaryBaby06:

War on bros..... really? Because they are now being expect to pay as much as their counter part? IMO, charging woman more was never right in the first place.


JustCJ
by on Nov. 5, 2013 at 3:25 PM
3 moms liked this

No truer words spoken.

Quoting SallyMJ:

Because discrimination is legal when Obama says it is.

Just like under any tyrant.


JanuaryBaby06
by Gold Member on Nov. 5, 2013 at 3:55 PM
1 mom liked this

Well why just woman then? The Obese should also pay more if we are going by statistics as well as people who have medical family history , live in certain enviroments, have a history of addiction, live more at risk lifestyles, certain races are also more likely to have certain issues and others may live longer then ... I mean the list can go on and on and on.... by your logic they should also be charged more. When does it stop?

ALso perhaps men would live longer if they went to the Doctors more often and since they are now paying for it maybe they will!


Quoting SallyMJ:

No, the point is that men use considerably less health care dollars. Which is why it is cheaper to insure men than women. Which is why men's premiums were lower than women's.

And women live longer then men. Which is why women's life insurance premiums in general are lower than men's.

Just plain old statistics.

Numbers are neutral.

Quoting JanuaryBaby06:

War on bros..... really? Because they are now being expect to pay as much as their counter part? IMO, charging woman more was never right in the first place.




SallyMJ
by Ruby Member on Nov. 5, 2013 at 4:29 PM

Of course. They do pay more in the individual market, and they do pay more for life insurance. The differences are aggregated in group policies. This is so 1980s.  :)

Who knows why women go to the doctor more? Are they more cognizant of their own health? Have a lower pain threshold or perceptions of illness? Better at not putting things off? Do they have different illnesses? Is it a cultural thing? Who knows? 

So are you going to force men to go to the doctor more? Or maybe look into the "why's"? 

Quoting JanuaryBaby06:

Well why just woman then? The Obese should also pay more if we are going by statistics as well as people who have medical family history , live in certain enviroments, have a history of addiction, live more at risk lifestyles, certain races are also more likely to have certain issues and others may live longer then ... I mean the list can go on and on and on.... by your logic they should also be charged more. When does it stop?

ALso perhaps men would live longer if they went to the Doctors more often and since they are now paying for it maybe they will!


Quoting SallyMJ:

No, the point is that men use considerably less health care dollars. Which is why it is cheaper to insure men than women. Which is why men's premiums were lower than women's.

And women live longer then men. Which is why women's life insurance premiums in general are lower than men's.

Just plain old statistics.

Numbers are neutral.

Quoting JanuaryBaby06:

War on bros..... really? Because they are now being expect to pay as much as their counter part? IMO, charging woman more was never right in the first place.





JanuaryBaby06
by Gold Member on Nov. 5, 2013 at 5:35 PM

But why charge woman more when there are stats showing that people who are obese, have family history, so on so fourth, statistically have higher rates of having issues and need to be seen more..... why not single out everyone? When you only single out woman it does come across as sexist. Also poorer people seem to die earlier so why not charge the rich more since they will out live many of the people who rank lower on the monatary scale? WEhy not have a pay scale based on how much you make since that may be an indicator of how long you will live.

Wait.....the aurgument that woman should pay more because they live longer doesnt make any sense.... I mean if they live longer they are already paying more. If I outlive you by 10 years I am already paying 10years more insurence then you are. It just seems like insurence companies are punishing woman for being able to have kids (obyn/gyn) but men are the ones that cause pregnancy so they should be paying for all of that as well. I am sorry but unless your going to go through everything with a fine tooth comb, weigh every factor for each person then everyone should be paying the same amount.

Also womans life expectency is falling. Check out the artical underneath. It is moving slower then mens at current.

Qu oting SallyMJ:

Of course. They do pay more in the individual market, and they do pay more for life insurance. The differences are aggregated in group policies. This is so 1980s.  :)

Who knows why women go to the doctor more? Are they more cognizant of their own health? Have a lower pain threshold or perceptions of illness? Better at not putting things off? Do they have different illnesses? Is it a cultural thing? Who knows? 

So are you going to force men to go to the doctor more? Or maybe look into the "why's"? 

Quoting JanuaryBaby06:

Well why just woman then? The Obese should also pay more if we are going by statistics as well as people who have medical family history , live in certain enviroments, have a history of addiction, live more at risk lifestyles, certain races are also more likely to have certain issues and others may live longer then ... I mean the list can go on and on and on.... by your logic they should also be charged more. When does it stop?

ALso perhaps men would live longer if they went to the Doctors more often and since they are now paying for it maybe they will!


Quoting SallyMJ:

No, the point is that men use considerably less health care dollars. Which is why it is cheaper to insure men than women. Which is why men's premiums were lower than women's.

And women live longer then men. Which is why women's life insurance premiums in general are lower than men's.

Just plain old statistics.

Numbers are neutral.

Quoting JanuaryBaby06:

War on bros..... really? Because they are now being expect to pay as much as their counter part? IMO, charging woman more was never right in the first place.







JanuaryBaby06
by Gold Member on Nov. 5, 2013 at 5:36 PM

NEW YORKA new study offers more compelling evidence that life expectancy for some U.S. women is actually falling, a disturbing trend that experts can't explain.

The latest research found that women age 75 and younger are dying at higher rates than previous years in nearly half of the nation's counties -- many of them rural and in the South and West. Curiously, for men, life expectancy has held steady or improved in nearly all counties.

The study is the latest to spot this pattern, especially among disadvantaged white women. Some leading theories blame higher smoking rates, obesity and less education, but several experts said they simply don't know why.

26 Photos

Top 25 healthiest states in America 2012

Women have long outlived men, and the latest numbers show the average life span for a baby girl born today is 81, and for a baby boy, it's 76. But the gap has been narrowing and data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has shown women's longevity is not growing at the same pace as men's.

The phenomenon of some women losing ground appears to have begun in the late 1980s, though studies have begun to spotlight it only in the last few years.

Trying to figure out why is "the hot topic right now, trying to understand what's going on," said Jennifer Karas Montez, a Harvard School of Public Health sociologist who has been focused on the life expectancy decline but had no role in the new study.

Researchers also don't know exactly how many women are affected. Montez says a good estimate is roughly 12 percent.

The study, released Monday March 4th by the journal Health Affairs, found declining life expectancy for women in about 43 percent of the nation's counties.

The researchers, David Kindig and Erika Cheng of the University of Wisconsin, looked at federal death data and other information for nearly all 3,141 U.S. counties over 10 years. They calculated mortality rates for women age 75 and younger, sometimes called "premature death rates," because many of those deaths are considered preventable.

Many counties have such small populations that even slight changes in the number of deaths produce dramatic swings in the death rate from year to year. To try to stabilize the numbers, the researchers computed some five-year averages. They also used statistical tricks to account for factors like income and education.

They found that nationwide, the rate of women dying younger than would be expected fell from 324 to 318 per 100,000. But in 1,344 counties, the average premature death rate rose, from 317 to about 333 per 100,000. Deaths rates rose for men in only about 100 counties.

"We were surprised" by how much worse women did in those counties, and by the geographic variations, Kindig said.

The study wasn't the first to reach those conclusions. Two years ago, a study led by the University of Washington's Dr. Christopher Murray also looked at county-level death rates. It too found that women were dying sooner, especially in the South.

17 Photos

16 happiest states of 2012

Some other studies that focused on national data have highlighted steep declines in life expectancy for white women who never earned a high school diploma. Meanwhile, life expectancy seems to be growing for more educated and affluent women. Some experts also have suggested smokers or obese women are dragging down life expectancy.

The Murray and Kindig studies both spotlight regional differences. Some of the highest smoking rates are in Southern states, and the proportion of women who failed to finish high school is also highest in the South.

"I think the most likely explanation for why mortality is getting worse is those factors are just stronger in those counties," Murray said, adding that abuse of Oxycontin and other drugs also may add to the problem.

Some also think the statistics could reflect a migration of healthier women out of rural areas, leaving behind others who are too poor and unhealthy to relocate. That would change the rate, and make life expectancy in a county look worse, explained Bob Anderson of the CDC's National Center for Health Statistics

"We shouldn't jump to the conclusion that more people are getting sicker in these geographic areas than previously," he said.

But that is open to debate. Migration didn't seem to affect male death rates. Murray disagrees with the theory, saying he has tracked a great deal of movement from urban areas to less-populated counties.

© 2013 The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

SallyMJ
by Ruby Member on Nov. 5, 2013 at 6:01 PM

How am I singling out women, when I am simply responding to the OP?  :)

Your arguments are qualitative, when the issues are both qualitiative and quantititative.

Quoting JanuaryBaby06:

But why charge woman more when there are stats showing that people who are obese, have family history, so on so fourth, statistically have higher rates of having issues and need to be seen more..... why not single out everyone? When you only single out woman it does come across as sexist. Also poorer people seem to die earlier so why not charge the rich more since they will out live many of the people who rank lower on the monatary scale? WEhy not have a pay scale based on how much you make since that may be an indicator of how long you will live.

Wait.....the aurgument that woman should pay more because they live longer doesnt make any sense.... I mean if they live longer they are already paying more. If I outlive you by 10 years I am already paying 10years more insurence then you are. It just seems like insurence companies are punishing woman for being able to have kids (obyn/gyn) but men are the ones that cause pregnancy so they should be paying for all of that as well. I am sorry but unless your going to go through everything with a fine tooth comb, weigh every factor for each person then everyone should be paying the same amount.

Also womans life expectency is falling. Check out the artical underneath. It is moving slower then mens at current.

Qu oting SallyMJ:

Of course. They do pay more in the individual market, and they do pay more for life insurance. The differences are aggregated in group policies. This is so 1980s.  :)

Who knows why women go to the doctor more? Are they more cognizant of their own health? Have a lower pain threshold or perceptions of illness? Better at not putting things off? Do they have different illnesses? Is it a cultural thing? Who knows? 

So are you going to force men to go to the doctor more? Or maybe look into the "why's"? 

Quoting JanuaryBaby06:

Well why just woman then? The Obese should also pay more if we are going by statistics as well as people who have medical family history , live in certain enviroments, have a history of addiction, live more at risk lifestyles, certain races are also more likely to have certain issues and others may live longer then ... I mean the list can go on and on and on.... by your logic they should also be charged more. When does it stop?

ALso perhaps men would live longer if they went to the Doctors more often and since they are now paying for it maybe they will!


Quoting SallyMJ:

No, the point is that men use considerably less health care dollars. Which is why it is cheaper to insure men than women. Which is why men's premiums were lower than women's.

And women live longer then men. Which is why women's life insurance premiums in general are lower than men's.

Just plain old statistics.

Numbers are neutral.

Quoting JanuaryBaby06:

War on bros..... really? Because they are now being expect to pay as much as their counter part? IMO, charging woman more was never right in the first place.








JanuaryBaby06
by Gold Member on Nov. 5, 2013 at 6:03 PM



Quoting JanuaryBaby06:

But why charge woman more when there are stats showing that people who are obese, have family history, so on so fourth, statistically have higher rates of having issues and need to be seen more..... why not single out everyone? When you only single out woman it does come across as very sexist. Also poorer people seem to die earlier so why not charge the rich more since they will out live many of the people who rank lower on the monatary scale? Why not have a pay scale based on how much you make since that may be an indicator of how long you will live & I am sure the people who can afford it go more.... so why aren't they paying more across the board?

Wait.....the aurgument that woman or anyone should pay more because they live longer doesnt make any sense.... I mean if they live longer they are already paying more. If I outlive you by 10 years I am already paying 10years more insurence then you are. It just seems like insurence companies are punishing woman for being able to have kids (obgyn/gyn) but men are the ones that cause pregnancy so they should be paying for all of that as well, without woman they wouldnt have families. I am sorry but unless your going to go through everything with a fine tooth comb, weigh every factor for each indivisual person then everyone should be paying the same amount.

Also womans life expectency is falling. Check out the artical underneath. It is moving slower then mens at current.

Qu oting SallyMJ:

Of course. They do pay more in the individual market, and they do pay more for life insurance. The differences are aggregated in group policies. This is so 1980s.  :)

Who knows why women go to the doctor more? Are they more cognizant of their own health? Have a lower pain threshold or perceptions of illness? Better at not putting things off? Do they have different illnesses? Is it a cultural thing? Who knows? 

So are you going to force men to go to the doctor more? Or maybe look into the "why's"? 

Quoting JanuaryBaby06:

Well why just woman then? The Obese should also pay more if we are going by statistics as well as people who have medical family history , live in certain enviroments, have a history of addiction, live more at risk lifestyles, certain races are also more likely to have certain issues and others may live longer then ... I mean the list can go on and on and on.... by your logic they should also be charged more. When does it stop?

ALso perhaps men would live longer if they went to the Doctors more often and since they are now paying for it maybe they will!


Quoting SallyMJ:

No, the point is that men use considerably less health care dollars. Which is why it is cheaper to insure men than women. Which is why men's premiums were lower than women's.

And women live longer then men. Which is why women's life insurance premiums in general are lower than men's.

Just plain old statistics.

Numbers are neutral.

Quoting JanuaryBaby06:

War on bros..... really? Because they are now being expect to pay as much as their counter part? IMO, charging woman more was never right in the first place.









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