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Homosexuality is unnatural...at least if you are a Christian

Posted by on Nov. 9, 2013 at 12:36 PM
  • 35 Replies
2 moms liked this

This is a really interesting perspective.  I am kind of curious as to what some here think about this outlook on homosexuals.  I am also curious as to what you would say if our laws were based off this view so that homosexual men and women could marry.


In modern United States same sex marriage and the legal rights of homosexuals is a hot topic of debate. Yet long before Europeans set foot on Kentucky soil, Native American tribes established their own beliefs concerning homosexual behaviors. Traditional European beliefs define a person’s sexual identity male or female based on biological determination. Abrahamic religions; Islam, Christianity and Judaism; teach God made man and women. Man and woman each have their own roles to fulfill. Plato, in his Symposium, suggested the gods created three genders; male, female and half-male-half female “androgynous”. Mankind attacked the gods. As punishment, the gods split the genders in half. The androgynous halves became heterosexuals. Male and female halves became gays and lesbians. Like Platos’ explanation of differentiating romantic interests, Native Americans also believe the Creator created three different genders; males, females and two-spirits. A person of two spirits consisted of male and female genders. Gender roles and gender identity mirrored one another, each containing their own magical attributes. 
 

      Among the Shawnee, the dualism of male and female are evident. The Supreme Being, a male deity named Moneto, supervises everything in the world. His companion, a female deity, named Our Grandmother, created the world and everything in it. Below them several other spiritual beings exists comprising of male or females. Gender roles are seen in Shawnee religion. Males lift their prayers to Our Grandmother through fire and tobacco while females must use water to achieve the same effect. Certain restrictions apply to male and females. Men instruct the boys while women instruct girls, each following a different education. The man learns to honor the woman. The giver of life, women must never be near men while menstruating least she steals the man’s ability to kill. Women tended to the crops, maintained the house, nursed babies, and other domestic chores. Men hunted for food, fished, and protected the village in warfare. Men and women had equal standing in the council chambers. It was not uncommon for the Shawnee to have a war woman, war chief, principal woman and a principal chief. 
 

     While gender identity defined Native American gender roles the expectations upon a two spirits or berdache differed. Native American philosophy welcomed the third gender and openly encouraged the behavior. Virtually every tribe in the Midwest, Great Plains and Southwest found a comfortable co-existence with the two spirits. Considered holy men and women, the tribes deemed the two spirits a considerably blessed person. Female two –spirits often conducted sexual relations with other females while male two-spirits enjoyed both sexes. Tribe members encouraged unions between two-spirits and non two spirits. Thought to bring magical powers unto the non two spirit spouse, partners were not ostracized. Tribe members often blessed the union with offerings and considered highly respected.
Two-spirits were often called upon to settle disagreements between women and men. The balance between male and female magic inside them created understanding of both sides viewpoints. Often the two spirits assumed the role of healers, medicine men, counselors, surgeons, therapist and priests. As prophets, they contained universal knowledge and a special connection with the Creator. Their psychic visions aided the tribal leaders and council members. Every tribe had a different name for the two-spirits. Among the Lakota Sioux they were the “winktes”, Navaho “nadle” and the Mojave called them “shamans.” Every tribe watched their young carefully to determine if one of their children were two-spirits. If a boy leaned towards female clothes and mannerism, the tribe encouraged his explorations and vice versa for females. Today, Christianity replaced the traditional tribal beliefs. Some groups strive to revive the ancestors’ beliefs. 





by on Nov. 9, 2013 at 12:36 PM
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Replies (1-10):
buttersworth
by Bronze Member on Nov. 9, 2013 at 3:32 PM

I think your title is very misleading. There certainly are those who call themselves Christians that do not think homosexuality is unnatural.

Episcopalians are one very good example. In recent years, Episcopals -a very large, mainstream Christian denomination- have allowed homosexuals to become pastors.

There are other churches like the Lutherans, who have not really ever taken a stance on it and left homosexuality open to personal interpretation. I grew up Lutheran and we had a gay organist for over 20 years.

I've even heard of some Roman Catholics who have branched off the main church, to have their own homosexual-friendly congregations. I believe there used to be one in the capital city of my state.

None of what I'm saying has anything to do with my own opinion.

There are gays and lesbians who call themselves Christians, who do not hide their sexuality, who do not consider it a sin, who are ministers in their own right.

Being a Christian does not exclude someone from being gay or having a gay relationship.

You could be gay and fight it thinking it's a sin. You could be gay and loving it, feeling it's not a sin.

it all depends upon your personal interpretation as far as what many people think. There is no reason, however, that a gay or lesbian can't want to follow Christ.

Again, I think your title is very misleading in it's inherent characterization of Christians - there are many gay Christians.

PrimmednPunked
by Silver Member on Nov. 9, 2013 at 6:37 PM
The title was made to catch people's attention. Did you read the OP?

Quoting buttersworth:

I think your title is very misleading. There certainly are those who call themselves Christians that do not think homosexuality is unnatural.


Episcopalians are one very good example. In recent years, Episcopals -a very large, mainstream Christian denomination- have allowed homosexuals to become pastors.


There are other churches like the Lutherans, who have not really ever taken a stance on it and left homosexuality open to personal interpretation. I grew up Lutheran and we had a gay organist for over 20 years.


I've even heard of some Roman Catholics who have branched off the main church, to have their own homosexual-friendly congregations. I believe there used to be one in the capital city of my state.


None of what I'm saying has anything to do with my own opinion.


There are gays and lesbians who call themselves Christians, who do not hide their sexuality, who do not consider it a sin, who are ministers in their own right.


Being a Christian does not exclude someone from being gay or having a gay relationship.


You could be gay and fight it thinking it's a sin. You could be gay and loving it, feeling it's not a sin.


it all depends upon your personal interpretation as far as what many people think. There is no reason, however, that a gay or lesbian can't want to follow Christ.


Again, I think your title is very misleading in it's inherent characterization of Christians - there are many gay Christians.

SallyMJ
by Ruby Member on Nov. 9, 2013 at 8:11 PM
7 moms liked this

Why the anti-religious bigotry toward Christians?

Would you ever do that to Muslims, even though they hold the same religious perspective? 

No.

Because Christians are your Enemy du Jour - but it would be politicially incorrect to do that to Muslims.

Libertarians - people who value individual freedom - don't usually do that.

Goddesswillow
by on Nov. 9, 2013 at 8:17 PM

I love the native american view on it, they had it all right

JustCJ
by on Nov. 9, 2013 at 8:17 PM
5 moms liked this

P&P Christians get called out for their belief, so to speak, and when they stand by it...they get persecuted. Which is kinda what you're doing. I have several gay friends (being a hairstylist for starters) and my lesbian friends who got married last year wanted me at their wedding (the first gay marriage in Leroy NY ). I am a Christian and it is my belief that being gay is not natural and is a sin. Do I shout it from the rooftops? No. Do I dislike someone because they are gay? No. Do I think I'm a sinner too? YOU BETCHA. 

Basherte
by Member on Nov. 9, 2013 at 8:23 PM

I'm a little emotional about this subject. 

Though not all christians feel that homosexuality is wrong.


CafeMom Tickers
Analeigh2012
by Silver Member on Nov. 9, 2013 at 9:54 PM
This was very well stated.
And yes, P&P, I did read the OP.


Quoting buttersworth:

I think your title is very misleading. There certainly are those who call themselves Christians that do not think homosexuality is unnatural.


Episcopalians are one very good example. In recent years, Episcopals -a very large, mainstream Christian denomination- have allowed homosexuals to become pastors.


There are other churches like the Lutherans, who have not really ever taken a stance on it and left homosexuality open to personal interpretation. I grew up Lutheran and we had a gay organist for over 20 years.


I've even heard of some Roman Catholics who have branched off the main church, to have their own homosexual-friendly congregations. I believe there used to be one in the capital city of my state.


None of what I'm saying has anything to do with my own opinion.


There are gays and lesbians who call themselves Christians, who do not hide their sexuality, who do not consider it a sin, who are ministers in their own right.


Being a Christian does not exclude someone from being gay or having a gay relationship.


You could be gay and fight it thinking it's a sin. You could be gay and loving it, feeling it's not a sin.


it all depends upon your personal interpretation as far as what many people think. There is no reason, however, that a gay or lesbian can't want to follow Christ.


Again, I think your title is very misleading in it's inherent characterization of Christians - there are many gay Christians.

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grandmab125
by Platinum Member on Nov. 10, 2013 at 3:33 AM
1 mom liked this

 It was meant to be 'misleading', to suck you in to reading it.  P&P, C and PJ do this all of the time to get people to read their weak posts.

Quoting buttersworth:

I think your title is very misleading. There certainly are those who call themselves Christians that do not think homosexuality is unnatural.

Episcopalians are one very good example. In recent years, Episcopals -a very large, mainstream Christian denomination- have allowed homosexuals to become pastors.

There are other churches like the Lutherans, who have not really ever taken a stance on it and left homosexuality open to personal interpretation. I grew up Lutheran and we had a gay organist for over 20 years.

I've even heard of some Roman Catholics who have branched off the main church, to have their own homosexual-friendly congregations. I believe there used to be one in the capital city of my state.

None of what I'm saying has anything to do with my own opinion.

There are gays and lesbians who call themselves Christians, who do not hide their sexuality, who do not consider it a sin, who are ministers in their own right.

Being a Christian does not exclude someone from being gay or having a gay relationship.

You could be gay and fight it thinking it's a sin. You could be gay and loving it, feeling it's not a sin.

it all depends upon your personal interpretation as far as what many people think. There is no reason, however, that a gay or lesbian can't want to follow Christ.

Again, I think your title is very misleading in it's inherent characterization of Christians - there are many gay Christians.

 

Jovaiel
by New Member on Nov. 10, 2013 at 4:24 AM
2 moms liked this

What is your definition of "unnatural?" If you mean that it is only something a small minority do then, yes, homosexuality is unnatural. If you mean that it never happens then, no, Judaism and Christianity have never thought it unnatural. The existence of homosexual intercourse is clearly acknowledged in the Bible.

The Bible is about teaching a definition of "love" however - one that is independent of sexual activity. Love between men is celebrated - as in Abraham's love for his nephew, Lot, and David's love for his friend, Jonathan, and Jesus' love for His disciples. All these examples (and others) are passionate but chaste. The Bible restricts sexual relations because outside of a committed marriage between a man and a woman wherein any child conceived would be welcomed, sex undermines true love between the people and leads to a confusion about what real love truly is. Homosexual relations are just one of the many sexual relations restricted.

You should note, however, that Christians, especially, believe that God commands them to reach out with love and care toward all in need, including homosexuals. It also teaches that we are ALL sinners in one way or another and that no sin is worse than any other. (In other words, we are all equally fallen in God's eyes whether homosexual or heterosexual or non-sexual.) Christians are the majority of those manning the food pantries, the shelters, the meals on wheels programs and care programs for those with AIDS as well as others. They are also expected to be welcoming to all, including homosexuals, who come to their churches. Note how very different this is from some other faiths, like Islam, which still imprisons and kills its homosexuals in those areas where it rules. Christians may believe that homosexuality is a wrongful expression of love and a forbidden use of sex but their response is supposed to be, according to their teachings, to reach out with kindness. Even if you disagree with their beliefs, you should respect that response.

"One of the prerequisites of peaceful coexistence of beliefs in a secular society is freedom of speech--particularly the freedom to question, to dissent, even to ridicule." -- Robert Spencer


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sweetaspie630
by on Nov. 10, 2013 at 11:00 AM
Any religious belief that says homosexuality is evil or wrong, is a religion I want nothing to do with. And personally, I know a lot about numerous different religions, and I think Christianity is the meanest, nastiest and most hypocritical of them all.


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