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For Sally continued (Ohio Muslim)

Posted by on Mar. 17, 2014 at 10:20 PM
  • 51 Replies
1 mom liked this

original post got too long and my reply would not go through.

Sally I am very, very educated in the religion I was born and raised in. not only was I was raised in it to a very religious family I went to islamic schools all my life starting the 2nd half of 1st grade then on to the Islamic Univerisity in Southfield where I got my Masters. up until about 3 years ago i tought Islamic classes at my home mosque and will soon be going back this year.

As I already said anyone who told you we can convert people well they need to attend some of my classes. as already said it is not Gods will for everyone to be a Muslim. We can try to convert all we want but it will not do any good for 1 it is forbidden for 2 if it is not Gods will for that person to  be a Muslim then it will never happen. Why do you think we don't have missionaries or go knocking on doors trying to save to people? We let them come to us and when they do then we are are here to assist them any way we can. Before they can take their Shahada they must have a full understanding of what it means to be a Muslim in addition to having a full understanding on the 5 pillars and the 6 articles starting with the total belief in the oneness of God.

Those killings you talk about in the Quran... have you studied the Sunnah and the Hadith? The Quran much like the Bible is full of stories and it covers allot of stories of the wars and the battles of Islam. I have heard many non Muslims claim that because they "read the Quran" that they know all about Islam. Most of the time I know that they never really the Quran and even if they did it is not easy for a Muslim who has not been exposed to be educated on the readings of the Quran to understand. Even for those who speak, read, and write Arabic it is a challenge as the Quran is not just in Arabic but it is classical Arabic which is not spoken like today's everyday spoken Arabic.

For example... one might know how to speak, read, or write English, English might be their first and only language but to read something like Shakespear for example is not the easiest read even for an English reader.

First of all if a Quran is not in classical Arabic it is not an authentic Quran. It is a copy of a translation of the Quran. There are many words in the Arab language that can not be translated into English because there is no such word in the English language to translate it to from Arabic. Being that that is the case it not only changes the original words of the authentic Quran but in many cases it also changes or alters the meaning. Most copies of English translated "Qurans" even have disclaimers in the inside cover explaing such.

In addition to needing knowledge of how the Quran is written one can not study islam and get any true meaning without also refering to the hadiths and it helps to also refer to the sunnah.

The Quran, hadiths, and the sunnah all three go hand in hand to compliment and complete one another.

The hadiths are narriations of the teachings of the Prophet Mohammed

The sunnah are things or actions preformed by the Prophet Mohammed. To a practicing Muslim living the sunnah is very important. To live the sunnah means to copy or mimic the actions, life style, or the way the Prophet Mohammed and the things that he did and how he did them.

When I hear a non Muslim especially an islamophobic Muslim make the claim that they have "studied" Islam just because they claim to have read a copy of the Quran I usually challenge them and ask them what about the hadith. They usually in that case just look dumbfounded because they have no idea what the hadith or the sunnah is which pretty much is evidence that they never "studied" Islam.

Most Muslims who didn't grow up going to a muslim school or regular Sunday school that most mosque in America have for children take classes in order to learn how to read the Quran as it is not an easy read.

Jiyzah tax is a tax paid by non-Muslims while Muslims are required to pay zakat in which non -Muslims are exempt for having to pay. It's basically nothing more than any other tax than anyone has to pay anywhere.

Jiyzah tax is imposed on able bodied males of military age. In exchange for the paying of the tax they are exempt from having to fight any battles defending Muslims while the Muslims will have to fight for them, they are entitled to social and resource programs

In addition to me having to pay taxes here in the USA I still have to pay the Muslim tax of zakat every year.

Now I hope you don't think i am being argumentative because i am not. I also want to state again I am highly educated in my religion in fact I am more educated in my religion in many Muslims who have also been all their life a Muslim. Besides growing up in a very religious family and practicing to the letter I took a higher education from university after 11 and half years of Islamic school.

I can provide for you a proof from the Quran, Sunnah, and the Haddith on anything there is you need to see a proof on.

As I said the Quran much like the Bible are stories, the Sunnah which is the second jurisprudence are the ways and examples of the Prophet and his companions in which we are to follow and tell us how our life style is to be and what to do and not to do in situations, the hadith the third jurisprudence are the sayings of the Prophet and through though sayings he tells us the answers to everything we need to know about every life event that can possibly come up. As stated earlier one can't simply read the Quran from cover to cover and know Islam, you also need to the Sunnah and the Hadith to have the full picture. The 3 compliment one another.

by on Mar. 17, 2014 at 10:20 PM
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4everMuslim
by Member on Mar. 17, 2014 at 10:53 PM

Quoting SallyMJ:

Most religions truly believe in free will.

If Islam indeed teaches free will, why do so many Muslims use their free will to violate the free will and choice of others who are not harming others?

And why do Muslims feel they must be the ones to exact corporal and/or capital punishment on people who choose a different religion or spouse?

Muslims do have free will. The Islamic teachings teach us that we are all each and everyone of ou born sin free unlike the Christianity teachings that teach we are born in sin. According to Islam as new borns coming into this world we are sin free and pure. As soon as we come to an age of understanding of right and wrong and we decide on our onw free will to sin.

Even us who are Muslims, even me who was the very religious made a choice of free will and married a man although Muslim never practiced in his life and committed every sin under the sun. He brought me down with him and I even stopped praying, going to jumah, covering, and even started drinking... that was my free will. I decided to allow that to happen and now I'm paying for it $50,000 later and trying to get back on the right track but that was my free will. Free will does not mean it goes unpunished.

You ask why Muslims try to push their ways on others.Most non muslim except other Arabs who are Christians I only know from CM and I have never known any of mus to push our ways on others. me and my few Chaldean, Copt, or Assyrian friends never even talk about religion. They have their faith and i have mine and unless asked I don't mention it.

Some like maybe 3 Muslim majority countries Saudi, Iran, and Suddhan have an Islamic juricprudence. Islamic Juricprudence has been in existence since the birth of Islam because Islam is more than a religion it is a community and the original Muslim community which was a nation of their own as promised to the first born son Ismael had their own nation.

These 3 out of 52 countries that claim Shariah jurisprudence don't live up to real Shariah.If they did all their laws would be the same because there is only one Shariah but each country that claims Shariah has their own set of twisted Shariah for political control. In fact under REAL Shariah as taught by the Prophet Mohammed Shariah law ONLY applies to Muslims

We also have a free will to decide our religion. Nobody can force us to be muslims. If we turn our back on Islamthat is a matter God will take up with ua on the Day of Judgement but no other hunam can make us be Muslim.

4everMuslim
by Member on Mar. 18, 2014 at 8:51 AM

Bump

stacymomof2
by Bronze Member on Mar. 18, 2014 at 9:05 AM
Nicely done.
4everMuslim
by Member on Mar. 18, 2014 at 9:11 AM

 

Quoting stacymomof2: Nicely done.

 Excuse all the typosey he is key logging me and scrmabling my words and moving the page on me.

kcmsmommy24
by New Member on Mar. 18, 2014 at 9:35 AM
As i said in that other post, not everyone interprets a religion the same way. Most think their way is the right way, like my grandfather.
Debrowsky
by Gold Member on Mar. 18, 2014 at 12:00 PM
2 moms liked this


Quoting 4everMuslim:

Bump

Have you answered as to why most of the terrorism is committed by Muslims under the Islamic religion, against their neighbors? 

Debrowsky
by Gold Member on Mar. 18, 2014 at 12:06 PM
1 mom liked this

I think these questions and more that Sally have asked are valid, as we witness and hear these things all the time.

Why do Muslims say a Muslim who converts to another religion should be killed?

So why are more than 90% of terrorist acts in the world every day by people whofervently claim Islam as their faith? Many who say "Allahu akhbar!" as they are murdering their victims?

Why don't most Muslims speak up and disclaim Muslim terrorists and what they do?

When an act of terrorism is committed by people who say they are from a particular religious group, the people of that religion instantly disavow them and their acts.

You say this is not true Islam - but why are there so many more examples that prove the opposite?

Every other religion gives people free will to believe or not as their conscience leads. Why not Islam? What does Islam have against freedom of choice?


SallyMJ
by Ruby Member on Mar. 18, 2014 at 12:13 PM
1 mom liked this

Thank you Debrowsky, for restating my questions over many comments in the other thread.

Yes, 4everMuslim - 

I respect that you were raised in your faith. But these are serious questions about the heart of Islam that need to be answered. Please respond to them. Thanks.

Quoting Debrowsky:

I think these questions and more that Sally have asked are valid, as we witness and hear these things all the time.

Why do Muslims say a Muslim who converts to another religion should be killed?

So why are more than 90% of terrorist acts in the world every day by people whofervently claim Islam as their faith? Many who say "Allahu akhbar!" as they are murdering their victims?

Why don't most Muslims speak up and disclaim Muslim terrorists and what they do?

When an act of terrorism is committed by people who say they are from a particular religious group, the people of that religion instantly disavow them and their acts.

You say this is not true Islam - but why are there so many more examples that prove the opposite?

Every other religion gives people free will to believe or not as their conscience leads. Why not Islam? What does Islam have against freedom of choice?



BaronSamedi
by Bronze Member on Mar. 18, 2014 at 2:18 PM

  There are many different Muslim sects as there are many Christian sects.   It is in the actions of "believers" that the judgment of the overall philosophy must be judged.    You are correct in the translation difficulties.  Unfortunately that is a universal problem.  

4everMuslim
by Member on Mar. 18, 2014 at 2:35 PM

 

Quoting BaronSamedi:

  There are many different Muslim sects as there are many Christian sects.   It is in the actions of "believers" that the judgment of the overall philosophy must be judged.    You are correct in the translation difficulties.  Unfortunately that is a universal problem.  

 There are different sects but nowhere near as many as Christianity. There are the 2 major sects, Sunni which is the original sect as revealed and taught by the Phrophet Mohammed and it is the majuor sect, the second Major is Shia which broke off from us Sunni's after the death of the Prophet Mohammed for political reasons. The Muslim community took a vote on who would be the successor of the Prophet Mohammed and lead the Muslim community. They chose The Prophets closest companion Abu Bakr. A minority was not in agreements and thought it should be in the bloodline of the Prophet and go to Ali the Prophets cousin and son in law. That small minority went their way and followed Ali while Sunnis stayed and followed Abu Bakr. Over the years some small religious differences developed.

Later as time went on a few very small sects emerged allot of them in the 19th century and most of those don't even follow the Quran, Sunnah, or hadith. They emerged (most of them) because someone stood up and claimed to God in the flesh reincarnated which goes against the very number one basis of Islam but they are very very small groups and there are not many.

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