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2 Hours Gasping for Air....Should the Death Penalty be Abolished?

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Arizona Execution of Joseph Wood Took Nearly Two Hours

The execution of Joseph Wood — which Arizona carried out with a lethal-injection it had never before tried — is certain to fan the debate over how U.S. states carry out the death penalty.

Midway through the execution, defense attorneys asked a judge to stop the execution of Joseph Wood and order prison officials to try to resuscitate him. But before the court acted, he was pronounced dead.

"The execution commenced at 1:52 p.m. at the Arizona State Prison Complex (ASPC) - Florence. He was pronounced dead at 3:49 p.m," a statement Arizona Attorney General Tom Horne said.

The statement did not say what problems the execution team had encountered, but Wood's lawyers painted a macabre picture.

"He has been gasping and snorting for more than an hour," lawyers wrote in their request for an emergency stay of execution.

Image: Joseph Rudolph WoodARIZONA DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS VIA AP FILE
Inmate Joseph Rudolph Wood.

Wood — who was condemned to die for fatally shooting his girlfriend and her father in 1989 — had challenged the execution on the grounds that the state was violating the First Amendment by keeping the source of the lethal-injection drugs secret.

An appeals panel agreed with him, but the U.S. Supreme Court lifted the stay of execution. The Arizona Supreme Court briefly delayed the execution on Wednesday morning, but ultimately gave the state the green light.

Wood, 55, was scheduled to be killed with a combination of midazolam and hydromorphone, the same drugs used in an Ohio execution in which the inmate seemed to struggle for air and took 25 minutes to die.

His execution date had been put on hold several times as the case wound its way through last-minute appeals. One of those decisions was notable for a dissent in which the chief judge of a federal appeals court said the guillotine would be better than lethal injection for executions.

by on Jul. 23, 2014 at 7:48 PM
Replies (41-50):
Del672
by Member on Jul. 24, 2014 at 5:56 PM

The thing is....how would you feel though...if their crime involved you...or someone you love or treasure?  I've thought about this too.  It's one thing to say, how awful it is for the suffering of these inmates, but their crimes were brutal, and horrific...how do you honestly think you would feel...even though without walking in one of the victims shoes is impossible to surmise, if your parents, or siblings..or even the people next door...or the couple that run the convenience store in your neighbourhood died at the hands of someone being executed?

Quoting idunno1234:

It sucks to see so many here who think vengeance is okay.  If the death penalty is about deterrence it fails miserably because people who are bent a certain way don't care.  If its about punishment, death is often preferable to life in prison.  If the only purpose is vengeance, that's not something that should be public policy.

Killers are obviously broken people, for whatever reason.  It is the job of the justice system to attempt to deter (by the time the killing is done, that has obviously failed) and to keep citizens safe from those too dangerous to be mixed in the general population.  Wanting someone to suffer because of the horrible things they do is understandable if you know someone who was killed by such a person but that doesn't mean it should be a part of public policy, that we should all be glad if someone happens to suffer because they "deserve" it.  I hope none of you who expressed such shit call yourselves Christian.  Regardless, vengeance as a motive to kill people is not something that should be a part of a "civilized" society.

Our justice system is so skewed against the poor and is so highly flawed that it should definitely make us think twice about what we are doing and why we are doing it. 

This is the company we keep:


Countries with the Most Confirmed Executions in 2013
1. China (1,000s *see above) 4. Saudi Arabia (79+)
2. Iran (369+) 5. United States (39)
3. Iraq (169+) 6. Somalia (34+)


PamR
by Platinum Member on Jul. 24, 2014 at 6:14 PM

Executing the person who committed the crime wouldn't bring me any peace. What they did or took from me wouldn't change. I would rather see them behind bars for the rest of a long life. I've seen several people who were victims, including a woman whose father was murdered, speak in favor of letting the person who did it, not be executed. 

When I read the responses here in favor of the dp, it seems that most people see it as revenge. 

Quoting Del672:

The thing is....how would you feel though...if their crime involved you...or someone you love or treasure?  I've thought about this too.  It's one thing to say, how awful it is for the suffering of these inmates, but their crimes were brutal, and horrific...how do you honestly think you would feel...even though without walking in one of the victims shoes is impossible to surmise, if your parents, or siblings..or even the people next door...or the couple that run the convenience store in your neighbourhood died at the hands of someone being executed?

Quoting idunno1234:

It sucks to see so many here who think vengeance is okay.  If the death penalty is about deterrence it fails miserably because people who are bent a certain way don't care.  If its about punishment, death is often preferable to life in prison.  If the only purpose is vengeance, that's not something that should be public policy.

Killers are obviously broken people, for whatever reason.  It is the job of the justice system to attempt to deter (by the time the killing is done, that has obviously failed) and to keep citizens safe from those too dangerous to be mixed in the general population.  Wanting someone to suffer because of the horrible things they do is understandable if you know someone who was killed by such a person but that doesn't mean it should be a part of public policy, that we should all be glad if someone happens to suffer because they "deserve" it.  I hope none of you who expressed such shit call yourselves Christian.  Regardless, vengeance as a motive to kill people is not something that should be a part of a "civilized" society.

Our justice system is so skewed against the poor and is so highly flawed that it should definitely make us think twice about what we are doing and why we are doing it. 

This is the company we keep:


Countries with the Most Confirmed Executions in 2013
1. China (1,000s *see above) 4. Saudi Arabia (79+)
2. Iran (369+) 5. United States (39)
3. Iraq (169+) 6. Somalia (34+)


Del672
by Member on Jul. 24, 2014 at 6:22 PM

I see that too Pam.  It's not an easy answer.  It depends greatly on how it affects you personally, and your religious beliefs.  The very young, I can see them thinking that suffering for the perpetrator is justice in a small form.  As we get older, we see things differently.  I am not so quick to say...let them suffer.  We teach our kids...2 wrongs, don't make a right.  Isn't accepting the death penalty a contradiction? 

Quoting PamR:

Executing the person who committed the crime wouldn't bring me any peace. What they did or took from me wouldn't change. I would rather see them behind bars for the rest of a long life. I've seen several people who were victims, including a woman whose father was murdered, speak in favor of letting the person who did it, not be executed. 

When I read the responses here in favor of the dp, it seems that most people see it as revenge. 

Quoting Del672:

The thing is....how would you feel though...if their crime involved you...or someone you love or treasure?  I've thought about this too.  It's one thing to say, how awful it is for the suffering of these inmates, but their crimes were brutal, and horrific...how do you honestly think you would feel...even though without walking in one of the victims shoes is impossible to surmise, if your parents, or siblings..or even the people next door...or the couple that run the convenience store in your neighbourhood died at the hands of someone being executed?

Quoting idunno1234:

It sucks to see so many here who think vengeance is okay.  If the death penalty is about deterrence it fails miserably because people who are bent a certain way don't care.  If its about punishment, death is often preferable to life in prison.  If the only purpose is vengeance, that's not something that should be public policy.

Killers are obviously broken people, for whatever reason.  It is the job of the justice system to attempt to deter (by the time the killing is done, that has obviously failed) and to keep citizens safe from those too dangerous to be mixed in the general population.  Wanting someone to suffer because of the horrible things they do is understandable if you know someone who was killed by such a person but that doesn't mean it should be a part of public policy, that we should all be glad if someone happens to suffer because they "deserve" it.  I hope none of you who expressed such shit call yourselves Christian.  Regardless, vengeance as a motive to kill people is not something that should be a part of a "civilized" society.

Our justice system is so skewed against the poor and is so highly flawed that it should definitely make us think twice about what we are doing and why we are doing it. 

This is the company we keep:


Countries with the Most Confirmed Executions in 2013
1. China (1,000s *see above) 4. Saudi Arabia (79+)
2. Iran (369+) 5. United States (39)
3. Iraq (169+) 6. Somalia (34+)



PamR
by Platinum Member on Jul. 24, 2014 at 6:27 PM
1 mom liked this

Personally, I think the death penalty is barbaric and diminishes us (citizens, in whose name it is performed) to the level of the criminal. Give them life with no parole, so the victims loved ones at least have the satisfaction of knowing he will never again be free. Beyond that, they have to come to terms with living with the tragedy that happened within themselves. And revenge rarely accomplishes that. 

idunno1234
by Silver Member on Jul. 24, 2014 at 6:41 PM

 I imagine I would feel horror, rage, maybe hate, maybe want to rip a person apart with my bare hands.  I have no idea until I would actually be faced with that situation.

But the place of the state is not to appease vengeful feelings.  It isn't to lower itself to those base feelings that we are all capable of because I don't think that indicates anything good for a society that does that. 

Killing another person wouldn't bring back my loved ones and it wouldn't bring me peace.  Forgiveness is the way to peace, not vengeance and hate.  It may be easier said than done but forgiveness is the ultimate act of self love.

Quoting Del672:

The thing is....how would you feel though...if their crime involved you...or someone you love or treasure?  I've thought about this too.  It's one thing to say, how awful it is for the suffering of these inmates, but their crimes were brutal, and horrific...how do you honestly think you would feel...even though without walking in one of the victims shoes is impossible to surmise, if your parents, or siblings..or even the people next door...or the couple that run the convenience store in your neighbourhood died at the hands of someone being executed?

Quoting idunno1234:

It sucks to see so many here who think vengeance is okay.  If the death penalty is about deterrence it fails miserably because people who are bent a certain way don't care.  If its about punishment, death is often preferable to life in prison.  If the only purpose is vengeance, that's not something that should be public policy.

Killers are obviously broken people, for whatever reason.  It is the job of the justice system to attempt to deter (by the time the killing is done, that has obviously failed) and to keep citizens safe from those too dangerous to be mixed in the general population.  Wanting someone to suffer because of the horrible things they do is understandable if you know someone who was killed by such a person but that doesn't mean it should be a part of public policy, that we should all be glad if someone happens to suffer because they "deserve" it.  I hope none of you who expressed such shit call yourselves Christian.  Regardless, vengeance as a motive to kill people is not something that should be a part of a "civilized" society.

Our justice system is so skewed against the poor and is so highly flawed that it should definitely make us think twice about what we are doing and why we are doing it. 

This is the company we keep:

 

Countries with the Most Confirmed Executions in 2013
1. China (1,000s *see above) 4. Saudi Arabia (79+)
2. Iran (369+) 5. United States (39)
3. Iraq (169+) 6. Somalia (34+)

 

Canvas_says
by Silver Member on Jul. 24, 2014 at 7:35 PM

 Being personally affected by a friends murder typically Michigan doesn't support the death penalty. However in my friends case the murderer killed her and dumped her body on Federal land allowing for him to be tried federally. He was given the death penalty and I'm fine with that. What he did to her and the non closure her friends and family feel about her missing child all these years later are never going to be answered. So he is only sitting there toying with everyone. I would love to be there the day he is finally killed.

http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2013/05/marvin_gabrions_death_penalty.html

comments

Marvin Gabrion's death penalty reinstated in 1997 killing of young mother

John Agar | jagar@mlive.com By John Agar | jagar@mlive.com The Grand Rapids Press
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on May 28, 2013 at 2:41 PM, updated May 28, 2013 at 2:58 PM
 
Reddit
Email

  
gabrion.jpgMarvin GabrionFile photo 

GRAND RAPIDS, MI - A federal appeals court has upheld Marvin Gabrion's death penalty in the 1997 killing of Rachel Timmerman, whose body was found in a remote lake in the Manistee National Forest.

The Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals, by a 12-4 vote, affirmed his conviction and sentence.

An appeals panel earlier overturned the death penalty.

It said Gabrion's attorneys should have been allowed to tell jurors that he would not have faced the death penalty if prosecuted in a state court. Capital punishment has been illegal in Michigan since 1846.

U.S. District Judge Robert Holmes Bell would not allow defense attorneys in the 2002 trial to state the differences between state and federal laws.

"That Michigan lacks a death penalty has nothing to do with these things," the Court of Appeals wrote, in a decision released Tuesday, May 28.

"It has nothing to do with Gabrion's background or character. It has nothing to do with the reasons why he chose to kill Rachel Timmerman. It has nothing to do with the utter depravity of the manner in which he killed her. And above all it has nothing to do with his culpability for that offense or with any other consideration the Supreme Court has ever flagged as mitigating. Gabrion does not even argue the contrary."

Gabrion also argued that the killing did not occur on federal property.

Gabrion abducted and killed Timmerman on June 3, 1997, two days before he was to stand trial for raping her. He bound and gagged the 19-year-old, weighed her down with concrete block, put her in an old metal boat then threw her, alive, into a shallow, weedy lake. She drowned.

Gabrion also killed her 11-month-old daughter, Shannon Verhage, whose body was not found, and three others, authorities say.

Timmerman was going to testify against Gabrion after he allegedly raped her in August 1996.

He threatened to kill her and her baby if she told anyone, court records showed.
She reported the rape to Newaygo County Sheriff's deputies, which led to a rape charge.

Meanwhile, a young friend of Gabrion's repeatedly called Timmerman and asked her for a date. She didn't know he was calling at Gabrion's direction.

She told her father that a boy invited her to dinner, and specifically asked her to bring her baby.

She was supposed to be gone for a couple of hours. Her father never saw them alive again.

Quoting Del672:

The thing is....how would you feel though...if their crime involved you...or someone you love or treasure?  I've thought about this too.  It's one thing to say, how awful it is for the suffering of these inmates, but their crimes were brutal, and horrific...how do you honestly think you would feel...even though without walking in one of the victims shoes is impossible to surmise, if your parents, or siblings..or even the people next door...or the couple that run the convenience store in your neighbourhood died at the hands of someone being executed?

Quoting idunno1234:

It sucks to see so many here who think vengeance is okay.  If the death penalty is about deterrence it fails miserably because people who are bent a certain way don't care.  If its about punishment, death is often preferable to life in prison.  If the only purpose is vengeance, that's not something that should be public policy.

Killers are obviously broken people, for whatever reason.  It is the job of the justice system to attempt to deter (by the time the killing is done, that has obviously failed) and to keep citizens safe from those too dangerous to be mixed in the general population.  Wanting someone to suffer because of the horrible things they do is understandable if you know someone who was killed by such a person but that doesn't mean it should be a part of public policy, that we should all be glad if someone happens to suffer because they "deserve" it.  I hope none of you who expressed such shit call yourselves Christian.  Regardless, vengeance as a motive to kill people is not something that should be a part of a "civilized" society.

Our justice system is so skewed against the poor and is so highly flawed that it should definitely make us think twice about what we are doing and why we are doing it. 

This is the company we keep:

 

Countries with the Most Confirmed Executions in 2013
1. China (1,000s *see above) 4. Saudi Arabia (79+)
2. Iran (369+) 5. United States (39)
3. Iraq (169+) 6. Somalia (34+)

 

 

Del672
by Member on Jul. 24, 2014 at 9:31 PM

That's absolutely horrible.  I'm sorry you lost a friend and her baby.  Yes, I can see how his comfort at the end of his life is of no interest to you or anyone involved at the brutality he inflicted on her, and her baby.  Iheard tonight, that there might be a stall on anymore executions until they address the current issue.  I'm thinking this is not going to sit well with the general population.

Quoting Canvas_says:

 Being personally affected by a friends murder typically Michigan doesn't support the death penalty. However in my friends case the murderer killed her and dumped her body on Federal land allowing for him to be tried federally. He was given the death penalty and I'm fine with that. What he did to her and the non closure her friends and family feel about her missing child all these years later are never going to be answered. So he is only sitting there toying with everyone. I would love to be there the day he is finally killed.

http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2013/05/marvin_gabrions_death_penalty.html

comments

Marvin Gabrion's death penalty reinstated in 1997 killing of young mother

John Agar | jagar@mlive.com By John Agar | jagar@mlive.com The Grand Rapids Press Follow on Twitter on May 28, 2013 at 2:41 PM, updated May 28, 2013 at 2:58 PM
 
Reddit
Email

  
gabrion.jpgMarvin GabrionFile photo 

GRAND RAPIDS, MI - A federal appeals court has upheld Marvin Gabrion's death penalty in the 1997 killing of Rachel Timmerman, whose body was found in a remote lake in the Manistee National Forest.

The Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals, by a 12-4 vote, affirmed his conviction and sentence.

An appeals panel earlier overturned the death penalty.

It said Gabrion's attorneys should have been allowed to tell jurors that he would not have faced the death penalty if prosecuted in a state court. Capital punishment has been illegal in Michigan since 1846.

U.S. District Judge Robert Holmes Bell would not allow defense attorneys in the 2002 trial to state the differences between state and federal laws.

"That Michigan lacks a death penalty has nothing to do with these things," the Court of Appeals wrote, in a decision released Tuesday, May 28.

"It has nothing to do with Gabrion's background or character. It has nothing to do with the reasons why he chose to kill Rachel Timmerman. It has nothing to do with the utter depravity of the manner in which he killed her. And above all it has nothing to do with his culpability for that offense or with any other consideration the Supreme Court has ever flagged as mitigating. Gabrion does not even argue the contrary."

Gabrion also argued that the killing did not occur on federal property.

Gabrion abducted and killed Timmerman on June 3, 1997, two days before he was to stand trial for raping her. He bound and gagged the 19-year-old, weighed her down with concrete block, put her in an old metal boat then threw her, alive, into a shallow, weedy lake. She drowned.

Gabrion also killed her 11-month-old daughter, Shannon Verhage, whose body was not found, and three others, authorities say.

Timmerman was going to testify against Gabrion after he allegedly raped her in August 1996.

He threatened to kill her and her baby if she told anyone, court records showed.She reported the rape to Newaygo County Sheriff's deputies, which led to a rape charge.

Meanwhile, a young friend of Gabrion's repeatedly called Timmerman and asked her for a date. She didn't know he was calling at Gabrion's direction.

She told her father that a boy invited her to dinner, and specifically asked her to bring her baby.

She was supposed to be gone for a couple of hours. Her father never saw them alive again.

Quoting Del672:

The thing is....how would you feel though...if their crime involved you...or someone you love or treasure?  I've thought about this too.  It's one thing to say, how awful it is for the suffering of these inmates, but their crimes were brutal, and horrific...how do you honestly think you would feel...even though without walking in one of the victims shoes is impossible to surmise, if your parents, or siblings..or even the people next door...or the couple that run the convenience store in your neighbourhood died at the hands of someone being executed?

Quoting idunno1234:

It sucks to see so many here who think vengeance is okay.  If the death penalty is about deterrence it fails miserably because people who are bent a certain way don't care.  If its about punishment, death is often preferable to life in prison.  If the only purpose is vengeance, that's not something that should be public policy.

Killers are obviously broken people, for whatever reason.  It is the job of the justice system to attempt to deter (by the time the killing is done, that has obviously failed) and to keep citizens safe from those too dangerous to be mixed in the general population.  Wanting someone to suffer because of the horrible things they do is understandable if you know someone who was killed by such a person but that doesn't mean it should be a part of public policy, that we should all be glad if someone happens to suffer because they "deserve" it.  I hope none of you who expressed such shit call yourselves Christian.  Regardless, vengeance as a motive to kill people is not something that should be a part of a "civilized" society.

Our justice system is so skewed against the poor and is so highly flawed that it should definitely make us think twice about what we are doing and why we are doing it. 

This is the company we keep:


Countries with the Most Confirmed Executions in 2013
1. China (1,000s *see above) 4. Saudi Arabia (79+)
2. Iran (369+) 5. United States (39)
3. Iraq (169+) 6. Somalia (34+)

 

 


FromAtoZ
by Bronze Member on Jul. 24, 2014 at 9:35 PM

I do not support the death penalty.

To think that I did makes my stomach turn.

kaffedrikke
by on Jul. 24, 2014 at 10:56 PM
I've got a scenario for you people whining about the death penalty. Just imagine it's one of your children. Someone has kidnapped them. They're terrified and sobbing begging the person to let them go so they can see their mommy. They have likely been assaulted and are now in abject terror. The person takes them to a secluded spot and tells them they're going to die. The kid is begging them not to they just want to go home in their safe place to see mommy and daddy again. They've urinated on themselves due to extreme fear. Once again their assaulted then strangled with something or shot point blank in the head. For all who disagree with the death penalty for murder. I say suck it.
29again
by Gold Member on Jul. 24, 2014 at 11:05 PM
1 mom liked this

The only problem with our DP these days is the 30 years of appeals. 


I don't see the DP as "vengeance" or "revenge."  It is simply justice.  But it is too often justice delayed.  And that is not right.  What I find intolerable is that these monsters who we deem not fit for society get a free ride, until they die.  They can do whatever sick things they desire to another human being, and then we pay for their support in prison?  Nope, no way is that right, or just.  The price for the heinous murder of another person, all too often a child, should be more than a prison cell with cable, internet, food, a library, physical fitness, etc... 

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