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Vice Presidential Debate

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I watched the Vice Presidential debate. I thought it was much more spirited than the Presidential debate. I also thought Vice President Joe Biden was the clear winner. I will be interested to hear what you ladies thought and what the general consensus will be all over the internet.

As I watched the live feed online there were comments constantly streaming alongside. It is amazing to be able to see commentary live while you are actually watching the debate. I don’t know how people type that fast though!

Overall I thought Biden’s experience in foreign affairs showed. He obviously knew what he
was talking about. I did not love his laughing at everything Ryan said though, that seemed a bit smug.

I thought the moderator was great. She maintained control, asked good questions, and required that her questions were answered. Did you like her?

She repeatedly questioned Ryan why he and Romney have refused to show any actual plans, to delineate exactly what cuts they would make and which loopholes would be closed. I wonder why they will not come forth with that, too. How do you feel about that?

On the abortion question, a quote from Twitter: “@dannysullivan Ryan: my faith guides everything. Biden: my faith is strong enough I don't have to impose it on those of other faiths.”

Did you watch the debate? Do you agree or disagree with my assessment? I welcome all thoughts and opinions.

©iStockphoto.com/Geoffrey Holman

by on Oct. 12, 2012 at 12:00 AM
Replies (91-100):
annelauer
by on Oct. 12, 2012 at 9:05 PM

Watching your wheels spin is painful.  It is not merely an opinion.  Are you one of those people who doesn't understand the difference between scientific theory and a conjecture.  YOU are not qualified to call your opinion a fact.  The truth is that the best evidence we have says it will save tax-payers $84 Billion.  You posted an article that does not prove your original point.  (Have you forgotten that your original point was that Obama lied by saying that the Affordable Care Act would not increase taxes?  Clearly, you were INCORRECT by that statement which you stated as fact.)  The article did say that nobody can say with 100% certainty what the exact amount saved will be.  It still goes against your original argument.  Why is this so tricky for you?  My six-year-old seems to have stronger critical thinking skills than you are demonstrating.

Quoting mom2twinboyz:


Well there you freakin go! Nobody can say for sure! Don't go claiming it as fact to refute an opinion I made earlier. JUST as what the CBO puts out is THEIR opinion, It is not fact!

Quoting annelauer:

Here's a direct quote from the article you linked: Conrad added that Congress relies on the CBO because “they’re the best we have available, they’re the most objective, they’re the most professional.” 

So, does he believe that anyone can with 100% certainty and accuracy predict the future?  No.  Are they the most accurate and best bet for such predictions, he says yes.  

Once again though, this is an OPINION piece.  That is his OPINION.  I don't disagree with it though.  Thanks for sharing.

Quoting mom2twinboyz:


Please read my above link from Politico (left enough for ya?) and how the CBO is wrong about Obama Care. This is coming from a DEMOCRATIC chairman. ha ha!

Quoting annelauer:

I cited the actual Congressional Budget Report to prove you (and your "source" - a Republican Think Tank, paid by the GOP to propagate their agenda) wrong.  Let's weigh the evidence here.  If you are incapable of that, there really is little anyone can do to try to teach you critical thinking skills.  You have clearly chosen to believe lies that are comfortable to you rather than the actual black and white numbers (aka the facts, in this instance).  I don't know if this is a lack of intelligence or complete denial or something else all together.  Regardless of what it is, what it is not is logical, factual or thoughtful.  Feel free to try again, but like I said, please be considerate of the fact that I don't really care about your feelings on an issue.  I care about the facts.

Quoting mom2twinboyz:



And I provided my facts about the taxes facing Obamacare and the bankrupting of medicare. If you don't like my source you can shove it up your ass!

Quoting annelauer:

No, that is what was said according to you.  This really is becoming futile.  I have rebutted each thing you have said point by point using FACTS and EVIDENCE.  You have not.  If you memory is not serving you, please go back and read all previous posts.  You have never refuted any of the evidence I provided.  You just have been sharing your feelings.  Generally, they have had little if anything to do with what I have written.  I have humored you by responding.  I have hoped that you would look at reasons and facts.  Truly, point by point, sentence by sentence, paragraph by paragraph, I have rebutted your statements.  Each one incorrect.  It would be lengthy to do so again.  Feel free to check out the fact checking organizations as I mentioned.  Feel free to check out the links to the CBO and others that I provided for you.  I have proven you wrong every step of the way one sentence at a time.  I never said you were wrong because I don't agree with you.  You said that.  Nice try with the deflection.  You have not given a single intellectual, factual or proven answer.  I feel sorry for the fact that your feelings are hurt.  (As apparently you are since your responses are completely emotional and each of your posts are void of any logical or rational thought.)  I am done with your ignorant idiocy though.  If you can come up with a well-thought out argument, some facts and a logical conclusion, I would love to chat with you again sometime.  In the meantime, I have no interest wasting my time with someone who is denying the history of the entirety of this conversation.  What is the point of talking with you if you either can't remember (and refuse to look back at) the previous posts, or are denying their existence because they make you uncomfortable (or whatever your reasoning may be)?  I'm always up for opening my mind to new ideas.  Bring your A game if you'd like to convince people of something though, because a political post is not the place to share feelings and disregard for facts.  

Quoting mom2twinboyz:



Yes I have been reading the posts. You didn't tell me how I am wrong. According to you I am wrong because I don't agree with you.

Quoting annelauer:

I have been as we were going along.  Are you answering posts without reading them? 

Quoting mom2twinboyz:

Quoting annelauer:




Alrighty then please tell me what specifically I have said has proven to be untrue.










mom2twinboyz
by on Oct. 12, 2012 at 9:12 PM

 

Are you saying the CBO can never be wrong? Are you serious?

Look its a fact that Obama said Obama care would not raise taxes. Those words came out of his mouth. I am going to look for further evidence that taxes are going to kick in 2013. I will look for it and get back.

Quoting annelauer:

Watching your wheels spin is painful.  It is not merely an opinion.  Are you one of those people who doesn't understand the difference between scientific theory and a conjecture.  YOU are not qualified to call your opinion a fact.  The truth is that the best evidence we have says it will save tax-payers $84 Billion.  You posted an article that does not prove your original point.  (Have you forgotten that your original point was that Obama lied by saying that the Affordable Care Act would not increase taxes?  Clearly, you were INCORRECT by that statement which you stated as fact.)  The article did say that nobody can say with 100% certainty what the exact amount saved will be.  It still goes against your original argument.  Why is this so tricky for you?  My six-year-old seems to have stronger critical thinking skills than you are demonstrating.

Quoting mom2twinboyz:

 

Well there you freakin go! Nobody can say for sure! Don't go claiming it as fact to refute an opinion I made earlier. JUST as what the CBO puts out is THEIR opinion, It is not fact!

Quoting annelauer:

Here's a direct quote from the article you linked: Conrad added that Congress relies on the CBO because “they’re the best we have available, they’re the most objective, they’re the most professional.” 

So, does he believe that anyone can with 100% certainty and accuracy predict the future?  No.  Are they the most accurate and best bet for such predictions, he says yes.  

Once again though, this is an OPINION piece.  That is his OPINION.  I don't disagree with it though.  Thanks for sharing.

Quoting mom2twinboyz:

 

Please read my above link from Politico (left enough for ya?) and how the CBO is wrong about Obama Care. This is coming from a DEMOCRATIC chairman. ha ha!

Quoting annelauer:

I cited the actual Congressional Budget Report to prove you (and your "source" - a Republican Think Tank, paid by the GOP to propagate their agenda) wrong.  Let's weigh the evidence here.  If you are incapable of that, there really is little anyone can do to try to teach you critical thinking skills.  You have clearly chosen to believe lies that are comfortable to you rather than the actual black and white numbers (aka the facts, in this instance).  I don't know if this is a lack of intelligence or complete denial or something else all together.  Regardless of what it is, what it is not is logical, factual or thoughtful.  Feel free to try again, but like I said, please be considerate of the fact that I don't really care about your feelings on an issue.  I care about the facts.

Quoting mom2twinboyz:

 

 

And I provided my facts about the taxes facing Obamacare and the bankrupting of medicare. If you don't like my source you can shove it up your ass!

Quoting annelauer:

No, that is what was said according to you.  This really is becoming futile.  I have rebutted each thing you have said point by point using FACTS and EVIDENCE.  You have not.  If you memory is not serving you, please go back and read all previous posts.  You have never refuted any of the evidence I provided.  You just have been sharing your feelings.  Generally, they have had little if anything to do with what I have written.  I have humored you by responding.  I have hoped that you would look at reasons and facts.  Truly, point by point, sentence by sentence, paragraph by paragraph, I have rebutted your statements.  Each one incorrect.  It would be lengthy to do so again.  Feel free to check out the fact checking organizations as I mentioned.  Feel free to check out the links to the CBO and others that I provided for you.  I have proven you wrong every step of the way one sentence at a time.  I never said you were wrong because I don't agree with you.  You said that.  Nice try with the deflection.  You have not given a single intellectual, factual or proven answer.  I feel sorry for the fact that your feelings are hurt.  (As apparently you are since your responses are completely emotional and each of your posts are void of any logical or rational thought.)  I am done with your ignorant idiocy though.  If you can come up with a well-thought out argument, some facts and a logical conclusion, I would love to chat with you again sometime.  In the meantime, I have no interest wasting my time with someone who is denying the history of the entirety of this conversation.  What is the point of talking with you if you either can't remember (and refuse to look back at) the previous posts, or are denying their existence because they make you uncomfortable (or whatever your reasoning may be)?  I'm always up for opening my mind to new ideas.  Bring your A game if you'd like to convince people of something though, because a political post is not the place to share feelings and disregard for facts.  

Quoting mom2twinboyz:

 

 

Yes I have been reading the posts. You didn't tell me how I am wrong. According to you I am wrong because I don't agree with you.

Quoting annelauer:

I have been as we were going along.  Are you answering posts without reading them? 

Quoting mom2twinboyz:

Quoting annelauer:




Alrighty then please tell me what specifically I have said has proven to be untrue.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


annelauer
by on Oct. 12, 2012 at 9:16 PM

I am going to have to assume that English is not your first language (nor one of which you have a strong grasp.)  I did NOT say that the CBO can't be wrong.  I said I agree, nobody can know 100%.  They are INFINITELY MORE likely to be right than YOUR opinion.  Do you see the distinction?

Secondly, YES, Obama did say that it would not raise taxes and it WON"T.  There is an $84 Billion SAVINGS from it.  

What on earth are you talking about?  Quit saying that I said things that I didn't say.  

Quoting mom2twinboyz:


Are you saying the CBO can never be wrong? Are you serious?

Look its a fact that Obama said Obama care would not raise taxes. Those words came out of his mouth. I am going to look for further evidence that taxes are going to kick in 2013. I will look for it and get back.

Quoting annelauer:

Watching your wheels spin is painful.  It is not merely an opinion.  Are you one of those people who doesn't understand the difference between scientific theory and a conjecture.  YOU are not qualified to call your opinion a fact.  The truth is that the best evidence we have says it will save tax-payers $84 Billion.  You posted an article that does not prove your original point.  (Have you forgotten that your original point was that Obama lied by saying that the Affordable Care Act would not increase taxes?  Clearly, you were INCORRECT by that statement which you stated as fact.)  The article did say that nobody can say with 100% certainty what the exact amount saved will be.  It still goes against your original argument.  Why is this so tricky for you?  My six-year-old seems to have stronger critical thinking skills than you are demonstrating.

Quoting mom2twinboyz:


Well there you freakin go! Nobody can say for sure! Don't go claiming it as fact to refute an opinion I made earlier. JUST as what the CBO puts out is THEIR opinion, It is not fact!

Quoting annelauer:

Here's a direct quote from the article you linked: Conrad added that Congress relies on the CBO because “they’re the best we have available, they’re the most objective, they’re the most professional.” 

So, does he believe that anyone can with 100% certainty and accuracy predict the future?  No.  Are they the most accurate and best bet for such predictions, he says yes.  

Once again though, this is an OPINION piece.  That is his OPINION.  I don't disagree with it though.  Thanks for sharing.

Quoting mom2twinboyz:


Please read my above link from Politico (left enough for ya?) and how the CBO is wrong about Obama Care. This is coming from a DEMOCRATIC chairman. ha ha!

Quoting annelauer:

I cited the actual Congressional Budget Report to prove you (and your "source" - a Republican Think Tank, paid by the GOP to propagate their agenda) wrong.  Let's weigh the evidence here.  If you are incapable of that, there really is little anyone can do to try to teach you critical thinking skills.  You have clearly chosen to believe lies that are comfortable to you rather than the actual black and white numbers (aka the facts, in this instance).  I don't know if this is a lack of intelligence or complete denial or something else all together.  Regardless of what it is, what it is not is logical, factual or thoughtful.  Feel free to try again, but like I said, please be considerate of the fact that I don't really care about your feelings on an issue.  I care about the facts.

Quoting mom2twinboyz:



And I provided my facts about the taxes facing Obamacare and the bankrupting of medicare. If you don't like my source you can shove it up your ass!

Quoting annelauer:

No, that is what was said according to you.  This really is becoming futile.  I have rebutted each thing you have said point by point using FACTS and EVIDENCE.  You have not.  If you memory is not serving you, please go back and read all previous posts.  You have never refuted any of the evidence I provided.  You just have been sharing your feelings.  Generally, they have had little if anything to do with what I have written.  I have humored you by responding.  I have hoped that you would look at reasons and facts.  Truly, point by point, sentence by sentence, paragraph by paragraph, I have rebutted your statements.  Each one incorrect.  It would be lengthy to do so again.  Feel free to check out the fact checking organizations as I mentioned.  Feel free to check out the links to the CBO and others that I provided for you.  I have proven you wrong every step of the way one sentence at a time.  I never said you were wrong because I don't agree with you.  You said that.  Nice try with the deflection.  You have not given a single intellectual, factual or proven answer.  I feel sorry for the fact that your feelings are hurt.  (As apparently you are since your responses are completely emotional and each of your posts are void of any logical or rational thought.)  I am done with your ignorant idiocy though.  If you can come up with a well-thought out argument, some facts and a logical conclusion, I would love to chat with you again sometime.  In the meantime, I have no interest wasting my time with someone who is denying the history of the entirety of this conversation.  What is the point of talking with you if you either can't remember (and refuse to look back at) the previous posts, or are denying their existence because they make you uncomfortable (or whatever your reasoning may be)?  I'm always up for opening my mind to new ideas.  Bring your A game if you'd like to convince people of something though, because a political post is not the place to share feelings and disregard for facts.  

Quoting mom2twinboyz:



Yes I have been reading the posts. You didn't tell me how I am wrong. According to you I am wrong because I don't agree with you.

Quoting annelauer:

I have been as we were going along.  Are you answering posts without reading them? 

Quoting mom2twinboyz:

Quoting annelauer:




Alrighty then please tell me what specifically I have said has proven to be untrue.












maguilar
by on Oct. 12, 2012 at 9:23 PM
I feel the same way! I cant vote for someone that is trying to do that. What I do who I do it with is my problem.


Quoting mom_to_travis:

I watched, and I really enjoyed it.  Biden was the clear winner.  He has the experience, he has the knowledge, and he really enjoys debating.  Ryan kept his cool but he dodged to many questions and failed yet again to fill in the blanks with any details and specifics.

I think the reason romney/ryan don't give specifics about their plans is that they either don't know them, or they know that the American people aren't going to like the answers one bit!

I thought the moderator was okay.  Certainly better than Jim Lehrer!

“@dannysullivan Ryan: my faith guides everything. Biden:
my faith is strong enough I don't have to impose it on those of other
faiths.”

I love that.  My religion is not the same as ryan's.  Why should his relgious beliefs dictate my life?


Posted on CafeMom Mobile
mom2twinboyz
by on Oct. 12, 2012 at 9:24 PM

 

You are saying I am wrong because you have backed it up as fact! That is the same as saying they can't be wrong! who needs English lessons. Look you might like to be taxed to death but I don't. Iam going to break it down again the taxes that WILL in FACT be increasad starting 2013 or have already taxen place. But THESE tax increase are fact. We know these are going to occur. They are not opinions.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/dec/30/outlook-more-obamacare-taxes-on-the-way/

 


 

Quoting annelauer:

I am going to have to assume that English is not your first language (nor one of which you have a strong grasp.)  I did NOT say that the CBO can't be wrong.  I said I agree, nobody can know 100%.  They are INFINITELY MORE likely to be right than YOUR opinion.  Do you see the distinction?

Secondly, YES, Obama did say that it would not raise taxes and it WON"T.  There is an $84 Billion SAVINGS from it.  

What on earth are you talking about?  Quit saying that I said things that I didn't say.  

Quoting mom2twinboyz:

 

Are you saying the CBO can never be wrong? Are you serious?

Look its a fact that Obama said Obama care would not raise taxes. Those words came out of his mouth. I am going to look for further evidence that taxes are going to kick in 2013. I will look for it and get back.

Quoting annelauer:

Watching your wheels spin is painful.  It is not merely an opinion.  Are you one of those people who doesn't understand the difference between scientific theory and a conjecture.  YOU are not qualified to call your opinion a fact.  The truth is that the best evidence we have says it will save tax-payers $84 Billion.  You posted an article that does not prove your original point.  (Have you forgotten that your original point was that Obama lied by saying that the Affordable Care Act would not increase taxes?  Clearly, you were INCORRECT by that statement which you stated as fact.)  The article did say that nobody can say with 100% certainty what the exact amount saved will be.  It still goes against your original argument.  Why is this so tricky for you?  My six-year-old seems to have stronger critical thinking skills than you are demonstrating.

Quoting mom2twinboyz:

 

Well there you freakin go! Nobody can say for sure! Don't go claiming it as fact to refute an opinion I made earlier. JUST as what the CBO puts out is THEIR opinion, It is not fact!

Quoting annelauer:

Here's a direct quote from the article you linked: Conrad added that Congress relies on the CBO because “they’re the best we have available, they’re the most objective, they’re the most professional.” 

So, does he believe that anyone can with 100% certainty and accuracy predict the future?  No.  Are they the most accurate and best bet for such predictions, he says yes.  

Once again though, this is an OPINION piece.  That is his OPINION.  I don't disagree with it though.  Thanks for sharing.

Quoting mom2twinboyz:

 

Please read my above link from Politico (left enough for ya?) and how the CBO is wrong about Obama Care. This is coming from a DEMOCRATIC chairman. ha ha!

Quoting annelauer:

I cited the actual Congressional Budget Report to prove you (and your "source" - a Republican Think Tank, paid by the GOP to propagate their agenda) wrong.  Let's weigh the evidence here.  If you are incapable of that, there really is little anyone can do to try to teach you critical thinking skills.  You have clearly chosen to believe lies that are comfortable to you rather than the actual black and white numbers (aka the facts, in this instance).  I don't know if this is a lack of intelligence or complete denial or something else all together.  Regardless of what it is, what it is not is logical, factual or thoughtful.  Feel free to try again, but like I said, please be considerate of the fact that I don't really care about your feelings on an issue.  I care about the facts.

Quoting mom2twinboyz:

 

 

And I provided my facts about the taxes facing Obamacare and the bankrupting of medicare. If you don't like my source you can shove it up your ass!

Quoting annelauer:

No, that is what was said according to you.  This really is becoming futile.  I have rebutted each thing you have said point by point using FACTS and EVIDENCE.  You have not.  If you memory is not serving you, please go back and read all previous posts.  You have never refuted any of the evidence I provided.  You just have been sharing your feelings.  Generally, they have had little if anything to do with what I have written.  I have humored you by responding.  I have hoped that you would look at reasons and facts.  Truly, point by point, sentence by sentence, paragraph by paragraph, I have rebutted your statements.  Each one incorrect.  It would be lengthy to do so again.  Feel free to check out the fact checking organizations as I mentioned.  Feel free to check out the links to the CBO and others that I provided for you.  I have proven you wrong every step of the way one sentence at a time.  I never said you were wrong because I don't agree with you.  You said that.  Nice try with the deflection.  You have not given a single intellectual, factual or proven answer.  I feel sorry for the fact that your feelings are hurt.  (As apparently you are since your responses are completely emotional and each of your posts are void of any logical or rational thought.)  I am done with your ignorant idiocy though.  If you can come up with a well-thought out argument, some facts and a logical conclusion, I would love to chat with you again sometime.  In the meantime, I have no interest wasting my time with someone who is denying the history of the entirety of this conversation.  What is the point of talking with you if you either can't remember (and refuse to look back at) the previous posts, or are denying their existence because they make you uncomfortable (or whatever your reasoning may be)?  I'm always up for opening my mind to new ideas.  Bring your A game if you'd like to convince people of something though, because a political post is not the place to share feelings and disregard for facts.  

Quoting mom2twinboyz:

 

 

Yes I have been reading the posts. You didn't tell me how I am wrong. According to you I am wrong because I don't agree with you.

Quoting annelauer:

I have been as we were going along.  Are you answering posts without reading them? 

Quoting mom2twinboyz:

Quoting annelauer:




Alrighty then please tell me what specifically I have said has proven to be untrue.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

annelauer
by on Oct. 12, 2012 at 9:39 PM

The CBO is the most accurate source.  That is not disputed by any party.  It is a fact that the Affordable Care Act, as written, will not raise your taxes.  You may post as many opinion pieces as you wish.  The CBO is evidence based.  I seriously don't have time to go back and forth you you regarding evidence-based and opinion-based sources.  You should have learned that in school.  Maybe you were absent for several years and missed that part.  

As for your "factual" link: Did you happen to see where the Washington Times got it?  That's right, it's from the ATR which has ties to the Republican Party and is part of ALEC.  It is a PAID advertisement, no actual study was done, it was not researched in a non-partisan manner.  Look into your sources.  You can't claim that a source like that carries more weight than that CBO.

Quoting mom2twinboyz:


You are saying I am wrong because you have backed it up as fact! That is the same as saying they can't be wrong! who needs English lessons. Look you might like to be taxed to death but I don't. Iam going to break it down again the taxes that WILL in FACT be increasad starting 2013 or have already taxen place. But THESE tax increase are fact. We know these are going to occur. They are not opinions.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/dec/30/outlook-more-obamacare-taxes-on-the-way/



 

Quoting annelauer:

I am going to have to assume that English is not your first language (nor one of which you have a strong grasp.)  I did NOT say that the CBO can't be wrong.  I said I agree, nobody can know 100%.  They are INFINITELY MORE likely to be right than YOUR opinion.  Do you see the distinction?

Secondly, YES, Obama did say that it would not raise taxes and it WON"T.  There is an $84 Billion SAVINGS from it.  

What on earth are you talking about?  Quit saying that I said things that I didn't say.  

Quoting mom2twinboyz:


Are you saying the CBO can never be wrong? Are you serious?

Look its a fact that Obama said Obama care would not raise taxes. Those words came out of his mouth. I am going to look for further evidence that taxes are going to kick in 2013. I will look for it and get back.

Quoting annelauer:

Watching your wheels spin is painful.  It is not merely an opinion.  Are you one of those people who doesn't understand the difference between scientific theory and a conjecture.  YOU are not qualified to call your opinion a fact.  The truth is that the best evidence we have says it will save tax-payers $84 Billion.  You posted an article that does not prove your original point.  (Have you forgotten that your original point was that Obama lied by saying that the Affordable Care Act would not increase taxes?  Clearly, you were INCORRECT by that statement which you stated as fact.)  The article did say that nobody can say with 100% certainty what the exact amount saved will be.  It still goes against your original argument.  Why is this so tricky for you?  My six-year-old seems to have stronger critical thinking skills than you are demonstrating.

Quoting mom2twinboyz:


Well there you freakin go! Nobody can say for sure! Don't go claiming it as fact to refute an opinion I made earlier. JUST as what the CBO puts out is THEIR opinion, It is not fact!

Quoting annelauer:

Here's a direct quote from the article you linked: Conrad added that Congress relies on the CBO because “they’re the best we have available, they’re the most objective, they’re the most professional.” 

So, does he believe that anyone can with 100% certainty and accuracy predict the future?  No.  Are they the most accurate and best bet for such predictions, he says yes.  

Once again though, this is an OPINION piece.  That is his OPINION.  I don't disagree with it though.  Thanks for sharing.

Quoting mom2twinboyz:


Please read my above link from Politico (left enough for ya?) and how the CBO is wrong about Obama Care. This is coming from a DEMOCRATIC chairman. ha ha!

Quoting annelauer:

I cited the actual Congressional Budget Report to prove you (and your "source" - a Republican Think Tank, paid by the GOP to propagate their agenda) wrong.  Let's weigh the evidence here.  If you are incapable of that, there really is little anyone can do to try to teach you critical thinking skills.  You have clearly chosen to believe lies that are comfortable to you rather than the actual black and white numbers (aka the facts, in this instance).  I don't know if this is a lack of intelligence or complete denial or something else all together.  Regardless of what it is, what it is not is logical, factual or thoughtful.  Feel free to try again, but like I said, please be considerate of the fact that I don't really care about your feelings on an issue.  I care about the facts.

Quoting mom2twinboyz:



And I provided my facts about the taxes facing Obamacare and the bankrupting of medicare. If you don't like my source you can shove it up your ass!

Quoting annelauer:

No, that is what was said according to you.  This really is becoming futile.  I have rebutted each thing you have said point by point using FACTS and EVIDENCE.  You have not.  If you memory is not serving you, please go back and read all previous posts.  You have never refuted any of the evidence I provided.  You just have been sharing your feelings.  Generally, they have had little if anything to do with what I have written.  I have humored you by responding.  I have hoped that you would look at reasons and facts.  Truly, point by point, sentence by sentence, paragraph by paragraph, I have rebutted your statements.  Each one incorrect.  It would be lengthy to do so again.  Feel free to check out the fact checking organizations as I mentioned.  Feel free to check out the links to the CBO and others that I provided for you.  I have proven you wrong every step of the way one sentence at a time.  I never said you were wrong because I don't agree with you.  You said that.  Nice try with the deflection.  You have not given a single intellectual, factual or proven answer.  I feel sorry for the fact that your feelings are hurt.  (As apparently you are since your responses are completely emotional and each of your posts are void of any logical or rational thought.)  I am done with your ignorant idiocy though.  If you can come up with a well-thought out argument, some facts and a logical conclusion, I would love to chat with you again sometime.  In the meantime, I have no interest wasting my time with someone who is denying the history of the entirety of this conversation.  What is the point of talking with you if you either can't remember (and refuse to look back at) the previous posts, or are denying their existence because they make you uncomfortable (or whatever your reasoning may be)?  I'm always up for opening my mind to new ideas.  Bring your A game if you'd like to convince people of something though, because a political post is not the place to share feelings and disregard for facts.  

Quoting mom2twinboyz:



Yes I have been reading the posts. You didn't tell me how I am wrong. According to you I am wrong because I don't agree with you.

Quoting annelauer:

I have been as we were going along.  Are you answering posts without reading them? 

Quoting mom2twinboyz:

Quoting annelauer:




Alrighty then please tell me what specifically I have said has proven to be untrue.














mom2twinboyz
by on Oct. 12, 2012 at 9:46 PM

 

Seriously! These are tax increases that will happen! I's not anybody's opinion they are kicking in next year. Maybe you are in denial!

Quoting annelauer:

The CBO is the most accurate source.  That is not disputed by any party.  It is a fact that the Affordable Care Act, as written, will not raise your taxes.  You may post as many opinion pieces as you wish.  The CBO is evidence based.  I seriously don't have time to go back and forth you you regarding evidence-based and opinion-based sources.  You should have learned that in school.  Maybe you were absent for several years and missed that part.  

As for your "factual" link: Did you happen to see where the Washington Times got it?  That's right, it's from the ATR which has ties to the Republican Party and is part of ALEC.  It is a PAID advertisement, no actual study was done, it was not researched in a non-partisan manner.  Look into your sources.  You can't claim that a source like that carries more weight than that CBO.

Quoting mom2twinboyz:

 

You are saying I am wrong because you have backed it up as fact! That is the same as saying they can't be wrong! who needs English lessons. Look you might like to be taxed to death but I don't. Iam going to break it down again the taxes that WILL in FACT be increasad starting 2013 or have already taxen place. But THESE tax increase are fact. We know these are going to occur. They are not opinions.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/dec/30/outlook-more-obamacare-taxes-on-the-way/

 


 

Quoting annelauer:

I am going to have to assume that English is not your first language (nor one of which you have a strong grasp.)  I did NOT say that the CBO can't be wrong.  I said I agree, nobody can know 100%.  They are INFINITELY MORE likely to be right than YOUR opinion.  Do you see the distinction?

Secondly, YES, Obama did say that it would not raise taxes and it WON"T.  There is an $84 Billion SAVINGS from it.  

What on earth are you talking about?  Quit saying that I said things that I didn't say.  

Quoting mom2twinboyz:

 

Are you saying the CBO can never be wrong? Are you serious?

Look its a fact that Obama said Obama care would not raise taxes. Those words came out of his mouth. I am going to look for further evidence that taxes are going to kick in 2013. I will look for it and get back.

Quoting annelauer:

Watching your wheels spin is painful.  It is not merely an opinion.  Are you one of those people who doesn't understand the difference between scientific theory and a conjecture.  YOU are not qualified to call your opinion a fact.  The truth is that the best evidence we have says it will save tax-payers $84 Billion.  You posted an article that does not prove your original point.  (Have you forgotten that your original point was that Obama lied by saying that the Affordable Care Act would not increase taxes?  Clearly, you were INCORRECT by that statement which you stated as fact.)  The article did say that nobody can say with 100% certainty what the exact amount saved will be.  It still goes against your original argument.  Why is this so tricky for you?  My six-year-old seems to have stronger critical thinking skills than you are demonstrating.

Quoting mom2twinboyz:

 

Well there you freakin go! Nobody can say for sure! Don't go claiming it as fact to refute an opinion I made earlier. JUST as what the CBO puts out is THEIR opinion, It is not fact!

Quoting annelauer:

Here's a direct quote from the article you linked: Conrad added that Congress relies on the CBO because “they’re the best we have available, they’re the most objective, they’re the most professional.” 

So, does he believe that anyone can with 100% certainty and accuracy predict the future?  No.  Are they the most accurate and best bet for such predictions, he says yes.  

Once again though, this is an OPINION piece.  That is his OPINION.  I don't disagree with it though.  Thanks for sharing.

Quoting mom2twinboyz:

 

Please read my above link from Politico (left enough for ya?) and how the CBO is wrong about Obama Care. This is coming from a DEMOCRATIC chairman. ha ha!

Quoting annelauer:

I cited the actual Congressional Budget Report to prove you (and your "source" - a Republican Think Tank, paid by the GOP to propagate their agenda) wrong.  Let's weigh the evidence here.  If you are incapable of that, there really is little anyone can do to try to teach you critical thinking skills.  You have clearly chosen to believe lies that are comfortable to you rather than the actual black and white numbers (aka the facts, in this instance).  I don't know if this is a lack of intelligence or complete denial or something else all together.  Regardless of what it is, what it is not is logical, factual or thoughtful.  Feel free to try again, but like I said, please be considerate of the fact that I don't really care about your feelings on an issue.  I care about the facts.

Quoting mom2twinboyz:

 

 

And I provided my facts about the taxes facing Obamacare and the bankrupting of medicare. If you don't like my source you can shove it up your ass!

Quoting annelauer:

No, that is what was said according to you.  This really is becoming futile.  I have rebutted each thing you have said point by point using FACTS and EVIDENCE.  You have not.  If you memory is not serving you, please go back and read all previous posts.  You have never refuted any of the evidence I provided.  You just have been sharing your feelings.  Generally, they have had little if anything to do with what I have written.  I have humored you by responding.  I have hoped that you would look at reasons and facts.  Truly, point by point, sentence by sentence, paragraph by paragraph, I have rebutted your statements.  Each one incorrect.  It would be lengthy to do so again.  Feel free to check out the fact checking organizations as I mentioned.  Feel free to check out the links to the CBO and others that I provided for you.  I have proven you wrong every step of the way one sentence at a time.  I never said you were wrong because I don't agree with you.  You said that.  Nice try with the deflection.  You have not given a single intellectual, factual or proven answer.  I feel sorry for the fact that your feelings are hurt.  (As apparently you are since your responses are completely emotional and each of your posts are void of any logical or rational thought.)  I am done with your ignorant idiocy though.  If you can come up with a well-thought out argument, some facts and a logical conclusion, I would love to chat with you again sometime.  In the meantime, I have no interest wasting my time with someone who is denying the history of the entirety of this conversation.  What is the point of talking with you if you either can't remember (and refuse to look back at) the previous posts, or are denying their existence because they make you uncomfortable (or whatever your reasoning may be)?  I'm always up for opening my mind to new ideas.  Bring your A game if you'd like to convince people of something though, because a political post is not the place to share feelings and disregard for facts.  

Quoting mom2twinboyz:

 

 

Yes I have been reading the posts. You didn't tell me how I am wrong. According to you I am wrong because I don't agree with you.

Quoting annelauer:

I have been as we were going along.  Are you answering posts without reading them? 

Quoting mom2twinboyz:

Quoting annelauer:




Alrighty then please tell me what specifically I have said has proven to be untrue.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


annelauer
by on Oct. 12, 2012 at 9:49 PM

Do they outweigh the $84 Billion in savings?  No, therefor, it is still a net savings, not an increase.  Basic arithmetic.

Quoting mom2twinboyz:


Seriously! These are tax increases that will happen! I's not anybody's opinion they are kicking in next year. Maybe you are in denial!

Quoting annelauer:

The CBO is the most accurate source.  That is not disputed by any party.  It is a fact that the Affordable Care Act, as written, will not raise your taxes.  You may post as many opinion pieces as you wish.  The CBO is evidence based.  I seriously don't have time to go back and forth you you regarding evidence-based and opinion-based sources.  You should have learned that in school.  Maybe you were absent for several years and missed that part.  

As for your "factual" link: Did you happen to see where the Washington Times got it?  That's right, it's from the ATR which has ties to the Republican Party and is part of ALEC.  It is a PAID advertisement, no actual study was done, it was not researched in a non-partisan manner.  Look into your sources.  You can't claim that a source like that carries more weight than that CBO.

Quoting mom2twinboyz:


You are saying I am wrong because you have backed it up as fact! That is the same as saying they can't be wrong! who needs English lessons. Look you might like to be taxed to death but I don't. Iam going to break it down again the taxes that WILL in FACT be increasad starting 2013 or have already taxen place. But THESE tax increase are fact. We know these are going to occur. They are not opinions.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/dec/30/outlook-more-obamacare-taxes-on-the-way/



 

Quoting annelauer:

I am going to have to assume that English is not your first language (nor one of which you have a strong grasp.)  I did NOT say that the CBO can't be wrong.  I said I agree, nobody can know 100%.  They are INFINITELY MORE likely to be right than YOUR opinion.  Do you see the distinction?

Secondly, YES, Obama did say that it would not raise taxes and it WON"T.  There is an $84 Billion SAVINGS from it.  

What on earth are you talking about?  Quit saying that I said things that I didn't say.  

Quoting mom2twinboyz:


Are you saying the CBO can never be wrong? Are you serious?

Look its a fact that Obama said Obama care would not raise taxes. Those words came out of his mouth. I am going to look for further evidence that taxes are going to kick in 2013. I will look for it and get back.

Quoting annelauer:

Watching your wheels spin is painful.  It is not merely an opinion.  Are you one of those people who doesn't understand the difference between scientific theory and a conjecture.  YOU are not qualified to call your opinion a fact.  The truth is that the best evidence we have says it will save tax-payers $84 Billion.  You posted an article that does not prove your original point.  (Have you forgotten that your original point was that Obama lied by saying that the Affordable Care Act would not increase taxes?  Clearly, you were INCORRECT by that statement which you stated as fact.)  The article did say that nobody can say with 100% certainty what the exact amount saved will be.  It still goes against your original argument.  Why is this so tricky for you?  My six-year-old seems to have stronger critical thinking skills than you are demonstrating.

Quoting mom2twinboyz:


Well there you freakin go! Nobody can say for sure! Don't go claiming it as fact to refute an opinion I made earlier. JUST as what the CBO puts out is THEIR opinion, It is not fact!

Quoting annelauer:

Here's a direct quote from the article you linked: Conrad added that Congress relies on the CBO because “they’re the best we have available, they’re the most objective, they’re the most professional.” 

So, does he believe that anyone can with 100% certainty and accuracy predict the future?  No.  Are they the most accurate and best bet for such predictions, he says yes.  

Once again though, this is an OPINION piece.  That is his OPINION.  I don't disagree with it though.  Thanks for sharing.

Quoting mom2twinboyz:


Please read my above link from Politico (left enough for ya?) and how the CBO is wrong about Obama Care. This is coming from a DEMOCRATIC chairman. ha ha!

Quoting annelauer:

I cited the actual Congressional Budget Report to prove you (and your "source" - a Republican Think Tank, paid by the GOP to propagate their agenda) wrong.  Let's weigh the evidence here.  If you are incapable of that, there really is little anyone can do to try to teach you critical thinking skills.  You have clearly chosen to believe lies that are comfortable to you rather than the actual black and white numbers (aka the facts, in this instance).  I don't know if this is a lack of intelligence or complete denial or something else all together.  Regardless of what it is, what it is not is logical, factual or thoughtful.  Feel free to try again, but like I said, please be considerate of the fact that I don't really care about your feelings on an issue.  I care about the facts.

Quoting mom2twinboyz:



And I provided my facts about the taxes facing Obamacare and the bankrupting of medicare. If you don't like my source you can shove it up your ass!

Quoting annelauer:

No, that is what was said according to you.  This really is becoming futile.  I have rebutted each thing you have said point by point using FACTS and EVIDENCE.  You have not.  If you memory is not serving you, please go back and read all previous posts.  You have never refuted any of the evidence I provided.  You just have been sharing your feelings.  Generally, they have had little if anything to do with what I have written.  I have humored you by responding.  I have hoped that you would look at reasons and facts.  Truly, point by point, sentence by sentence, paragraph by paragraph, I have rebutted your statements.  Each one incorrect.  It would be lengthy to do so again.  Feel free to check out the fact checking organizations as I mentioned.  Feel free to check out the links to the CBO and others that I provided for you.  I have proven you wrong every step of the way one sentence at a time.  I never said you were wrong because I don't agree with you.  You said that.  Nice try with the deflection.  You have not given a single intellectual, factual or proven answer.  I feel sorry for the fact that your feelings are hurt.  (As apparently you are since your responses are completely emotional and each of your posts are void of any logical or rational thought.)  I am done with your ignorant idiocy though.  If you can come up with a well-thought out argument, some facts and a logical conclusion, I would love to chat with you again sometime.  In the meantime, I have no interest wasting my time with someone who is denying the history of the entirety of this conversation.  What is the point of talking with you if you either can't remember (and refuse to look back at) the previous posts, or are denying their existence because they make you uncomfortable (or whatever your reasoning may be)?  I'm always up for opening my mind to new ideas.  Bring your A game if you'd like to convince people of something though, because a political post is not the place to share feelings and disregard for facts.  

Quoting mom2twinboyz:



Yes I have been reading the posts. You didn't tell me how I am wrong. According to you I am wrong because I don't agree with you.

Quoting annelauer:

I have been as we were going along.  Are you answering posts without reading them? 

Quoting mom2twinboyz:

Quoting annelauer:




Alrighty then please tell me what specifically I have said has proven to be untrue.
















cjsmom1
by on Oct. 12, 2012 at 10:06 PM
1 mom liked this

I didn't watch the debate but I want to say that I like Biden's statement that was quoted above "my faith is strong enough I don't have to impose it on those of other faiths." I have no problem with any candidates religion or how it affects their life but don't feel it should be forced on everyone.

annelauer
by on Oct. 12, 2012 at 10:23 PM

Did you notice which section of the paper that was?  It was classified as opinion commentary.  Are you seeing this clearly yet?  You have to choose sources that are based on studies, facts and numbers if you wish to be taken seriously.  Anyone can guess what the ATR would write for an opinion section of a conservative paper (or any paper that would choose to publish their opinions).  Fact check.  Weigh sources.  These are basic concepts of discourse.

Quoting mom2twinboyz:


You are saying I am wrong because you have backed it up as fact! That is the same as saying they can't be wrong! who needs English lessons. Look you might like to be taxed to death but I don't. Iam going to break it down again the taxes that WILL in FACT be increasad starting 2013 or have already taxen place. But THESE tax increase are fact. We know these are going to occur. They are not opinions.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/dec/30/outlook-more-obamacare-taxes-on-the-way/



 

Quoting annelauer:

I am going to have to assume that English is not your first language (nor one of which you have a strong grasp.)  I did NOT say that the CBO can't be wrong.  I said I agree, nobody can know 100%.  They are INFINITELY MORE likely to be right than YOUR opinion.  Do you see the distinction?

Secondly, YES, Obama did say that it would not raise taxes and it WON"T.  There is an $84 Billion SAVINGS from it.  

What on earth are you talking about?  Quit saying that I said things that I didn't say.  

Quoting mom2twinboyz:


Are you saying the CBO can never be wrong? Are you serious?

Look its a fact that Obama said Obama care would not raise taxes. Those words came out of his mouth. I am going to look for further evidence that taxes are going to kick in 2013. I will look for it and get back.

Quoting annelauer:

Watching your wheels spin is painful.  It is not merely an opinion.  Are you one of those people who doesn't understand the difference between scientific theory and a conjecture.  YOU are not qualified to call your opinion a fact.  The truth is that the best evidence we have says it will save tax-payers $84 Billion.  You posted an article that does not prove your original point.  (Have you forgotten that your original point was that Obama lied by saying that the Affordable Care Act would not increase taxes?  Clearly, you were INCORRECT by that statement which you stated as fact.)  The article did say that nobody can say with 100% certainty what the exact amount saved will be.  It still goes against your original argument.  Why is this so tricky for you?  My six-year-old seems to have stronger critical thinking skills than you are demonstrating.

Quoting mom2twinboyz:


Well there you freakin go! Nobody can say for sure! Don't go claiming it as fact to refute an opinion I made earlier. JUST as what the CBO puts out is THEIR opinion, It is not fact!

Quoting annelauer:

Here's a direct quote from the article you linked: Conrad added that Congress relies on the CBO because “they’re the best we have available, they’re the most objective, they’re the most professional.” 

So, does he believe that anyone can with 100% certainty and accuracy predict the future?  No.  Are they the most accurate and best bet for such predictions, he says yes.  

Once again though, this is an OPINION piece.  That is his OPINION.  I don't disagree with it though.  Thanks for sharing.

Quoting mom2twinboyz:


Please read my above link from Politico (left enough for ya?) and how the CBO is wrong about Obama Care. This is coming from a DEMOCRATIC chairman. ha ha!

Quoting annelauer:

I cited the actual Congressional Budget Report to prove you (and your "source" - a Republican Think Tank, paid by the GOP to propagate their agenda) wrong.  Let's weigh the evidence here.  If you are incapable of that, there really is little anyone can do to try to teach you critical thinking skills.  You have clearly chosen to believe lies that are comfortable to you rather than the actual black and white numbers (aka the facts, in this instance).  I don't know if this is a lack of intelligence or complete denial or something else all together.  Regardless of what it is, what it is not is logical, factual or thoughtful.  Feel free to try again, but like I said, please be considerate of the fact that I don't really care about your feelings on an issue.  I care about the facts.

Quoting mom2twinboyz:



And I provided my facts about the taxes facing Obamacare and the bankrupting of medicare. If you don't like my source you can shove it up your ass!

Quoting annelauer:

No, that is what was said according to you.  This really is becoming futile.  I have rebutted each thing you have said point by point using FACTS and EVIDENCE.  You have not.  If you memory is not serving you, please go back and read all previous posts.  You have never refuted any of the evidence I provided.  You just have been sharing your feelings.  Generally, they have had little if anything to do with what I have written.  I have humored you by responding.  I have hoped that you would look at reasons and facts.  Truly, point by point, sentence by sentence, paragraph by paragraph, I have rebutted your statements.  Each one incorrect.  It would be lengthy to do so again.  Feel free to check out the fact checking organizations as I mentioned.  Feel free to check out the links to the CBO and others that I provided for you.  I have proven you wrong every step of the way one sentence at a time.  I never said you were wrong because I don't agree with you.  You said that.  Nice try with the deflection.  You have not given a single intellectual, factual or proven answer.  I feel sorry for the fact that your feelings are hurt.  (As apparently you are since your responses are completely emotional and each of your posts are void of any logical or rational thought.)  I am done with your ignorant idiocy though.  If you can come up with a well-thought out argument, some facts and a logical conclusion, I would love to chat with you again sometime.  In the meantime, I have no interest wasting my time with someone who is denying the history of the entirety of this conversation.  What is the point of talking with you if you either can't remember (and refuse to look back at) the previous posts, or are denying their existence because they make you uncomfortable (or whatever your reasoning may be)?  I'm always up for opening my mind to new ideas.  Bring your A game if you'd like to convince people of something though, because a political post is not the place to share feelings and disregard for facts.  

Quoting mom2twinboyz:



Yes I have been reading the posts. You didn't tell me how I am wrong. According to you I am wrong because I don't agree with you.

Quoting annelauer:

I have been as we were going along.  Are you answering posts without reading them? 

Quoting mom2twinboyz:

Quoting annelauer:




Alrighty then please tell me what specifically I have said has proven to be untrue.














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