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Did God Use Evolution?

Posted by on Nov. 17, 2012 at 11:13 PM
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 GrandUniverse Did God Use Evolution?

For biologists, kinds of organisms are the fundamental building blocks, just as the chemical elements are for a study of chemistry.

Read the rest at Answers in Genesis

by on Nov. 17, 2012 at 11:13 PM
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Replies (1-10):
Clairwil
by on Aug. 27, 2013 at 8:03 PM

Your article claims:

Mutations and selection cannot be a source of new or different information (see OB17). The evolutionist assumption that simple construction plans could produce more complex plans by means of mutations and selection is false according to information theory. No such event has ever been observed; on the contrary, the inverse is valid: The main result of heredity is to keep the distinguishing characteristics of all kinds of organisms constant.


which references:

5.1 What Is Information? The View of Information Science (OB17)

which claims:

Every piece of information implies the existence of a sender

and also

Every piece of information requires a mental or spiritual source (a sender)


Care to justify those claims?

stephs5isenough
by on Aug. 28, 2013 at 9:43 AM
2 moms liked this

I don't understand what you are asking.

We know from the Bible that all things were created by God.  Mans theory of evolution is bogus.

I'm just not sure what it is you are asking.

Quoting Clairwil:

Your article claims:

Mutations and selection cannot be a source of new or different information (see OB17). The evolutionist assumption that simple construction plans could produce more complex plans by means of mutations and selection is false according to information theory. No such event has ever been observed; on the contrary, the inverse is valid: The main result of heredity is to keep the distinguishing characteristics of all kinds of organisms constant.


which references:

5.1 What Is Information? The View of Information Science (OB17)

which claims:

Every piece of information implies the existence of a sender

and also

Every piece of information requires a mental or spiritual source (a sender)


Care to justify those claims?




Click my tag to follow me to:


LIVING IN THE ARMS OF JESUS~


Where we Pray, Play and Learn Together

Clairwil
by on Aug. 28, 2013 at 1:53 PM
Quoting stephs5isenough:

I don't understand what you are asking.

I'm asking about information theory, and the claim in the article:

"simple construction plans could produce more complex plans by means of mutations and selection is false according to information theory"

That these things are not just false, but that they can be shown to be false specifically by reason of them being incompatible with information theory.

KrissyKC
by on Aug. 31, 2013 at 11:35 PM
2 moms liked this

oh,,, geez... my ADD brain doesn't read scientific facts well.   Do I REALLY have to read the article about information theory???   I've actually been incapable all my life of actually reading anything in it's entirity... entirety... spelling???   I was always an advanced reader in school, however, the lack of focus in my brain makes it near impossible.  I am a skimmer... .well, let me go skim it and I'll edit this post if there is anything in the article I can comprehend.

Ok... I skimmed...

So the general idea is that all life is constructed with "plans" or "information"..   Information designed to make us follow "after our kind"... like if our parents have brown hair or blue eyes or something, that we have a basic genetic plan to be similar to them.   

This "information" is planned out and intentional, which goes against the randomness theory of evolution.

Am I getting that right?

So, are you posting for information or asking if we agree with it, or what?

If it's for information, thanks...  I love finding out more ways to point my kids in the right direction to be able to defend their faith in this very uh... agnostic? type society they are growing up in.


Clairwil
by on Sep. 1, 2013 at 4:02 AM
Quoting KrissyKC:

So, are you posting for information or asking if we agree with it, or what?

I know a fair bit about information theory, having studied both mathematics and computing, and I'm unaware of anything in information theory supporting the claim being made, so I'd be really interested in learning whether it is actually so.

The best definition of "information" to use, from an information theory perspective, is the min-entropy version of Rényi entropy.

KrissyKC
by on Sep. 4, 2013 at 12:14 AM

Ok, I pulled that up... that uh.. entropy... 

Wow.   I'm starting to second guess my ability to home educate my kids.    Anyway, I was able to read the first article, but these mathematic theories with all of these symbols, numbers, variables, equalities, inequalties...

Well.. it's just beyond my comprehension.

I was kinda looking at the information theory as ... well, if evolution were a random thing, then why does our DNA have "instructions" for how to form us.    For example, blue eyes verses green eyes really doesn't make a lick of difference.   Evolution would make it seem that we develop things based on the need in our environment, right?   so it would merely react.   Why would there be importance on if we have eyes like our kind, noses like our kind (I happen to be cursed with Dad's nose)... and more.

It's because nature isn't following a random evolutionary theory.   It is following the information/plans that God established when he told us to reproduce after our own kind.

Anyway, that's about all my brain gets... except this too...

Faith isn't about what you can explain and reason out.   Faith is about living, experiencing, and trusting Christ.  While there are some very intelligent arguments for or against evolution and creation...  the bottom line is that neither has been "scientifically" agreed upon.   So, it will boil down to faith.



Quoting Clairwil:

Quoting KrissyKC:

So, are you posting for information or asking if we agree with it, or what?

I know a fair bit about information theory, having studied both mathematics and computing, and I'm unaware of anything in information theory supporting the claim being made, so I'd be really interested in learning whether it is actually so.

The best definition of "information" to use, from an information theory perspective, is the min-entropy version of Rényi entropy.



Clairwil
by on Sep. 4, 2013 at 1:55 AM
Quoting KrissyKC:

Faith isn't about what you can explain and reason out.   Faith is about living, experiencing, and trusting Christ.  While there are some very intelligent arguments for or against evolution and creation...  the bottom line is that neither has been "scientifically" agreed upon.   So, it will boil down to faith.

The OP's article asked "Did God Use Evolution?"

A majority of Christians in the world say "Yes" to that question, and think that God creating the universe and species evolving from other species are compatible.   However the OP's article comes from a rather peculiar website that supports the planet Earth being only 6000 years old and which claims one species never evolved from a different species.

Scientists have 'agreed' upon the Theory of Evolution to precisely the same extent that they have 'agreed' upon the germ theory of disease transmission, the atomic theory of chemistry, and the theory of gravity.


Clairwil
by on Sep. 4, 2013 at 2:03 AM
Quoting KrissyKC:

if evolution were a random thing, then why does our DNA have "instructions" for how to form us.    For example, blue eyes verses green eyes really doesn't make a lick of difference.   Evolution would make it seem that we develop things based on the need in our environment, right?   so it would merely react.   Why would there be importance on if we have eyes like our kind, noses like our kind (I happen to be cursed with Dad's nose)... and more.

Not precisely.

Evolution doesn't develop things because they are needed.

It doesn't even elliminate things because they are not needed.


The 'development' of tiny steps happens at random, by mutation.

What evolution does is then elliminate some of the steps developed in that generation, on the basis of which individual gene carriers survive, so that the resulting net effect is non-random.


So blue versus green happened at random and, as long as the environment doesn't penalise one colour over the other, evolution has no incentive to elliminate either possibility, so both survive.

If, however, the environment changes to one in which eye colour does affect survival chances (because, for instance, sexual partners think blue eyes are prettier than green eyes), then over multiple generations you'd see the number of green eyes in the population reducing and the number of blue eyes increasing.

stephs5isenough
by on Sep. 4, 2013 at 1:01 PM
2 moms liked this

Though I can not answer for everyone, I will say that the majority of Christians do not believe God used evolution in his creation.  The majority of Christians believe creation as is spoken of in Genesis.

Read all about it here.

No one can tell me that scientists are more accurate than God because scientists are merely human.

Quoting Clairwil:

Quoting KrissyKC:

Faith isn't about what you can explain and reason out.   Faith is about living, experiencing, and trusting Christ.  While there are some very intelligent arguments for or against evolution and creation...  the bottom line is that neither has been "scientifically" agreed upon.   So, it will boil down to faith.

The OP's article asked "Did God Use Evolution?"

A majority of Christians in the world say "Yes" to that question, and think that God creating the universe and species evolving from other species are compatible.   However the OP's article comes from a rather peculiar website that supports the planet Earth being only 6000 years old and which claims one species never evolved from a different species.

Scientists have 'agreed' upon the Theory of Evolution to precisely the same extent that they have 'agreed' upon the germ theory of disease transmission, the atomic theory of chemistry, and the theory of gravity.





Click my tag to follow me to:


LIVING IN THE ARMS OF JESUS~


Where we Pray, Play and Learn Together

stephs5isenough
by on Sep. 4, 2013 at 1:12 PM
1 mom liked this

Your making things complicated that don't need to be.  God does not intend for things to be so crazy and complicated for us.  Just take God at HIS word.  That's all we need to do.  Scientists are just men like you and I.  They have to make this crazy stuff up to come up with they see as a logical reson for themselves thus giving them a reason not to believe.

Quoting Clairwil:

Quoting KrissyKC:

if evolution were a random thing, then why does our DNA have "instructions" for how to form us.    For example, blue eyes verses green eyes really doesn't make a lick of difference.   Evolution would make it seem that we develop things based on the need in our environment, right?   so it would merely react.   Why would there be importance on if we have eyes like our kind, noses like our kind (I happen to be cursed with Dad's nose)... and more.

Not precisely.

Evolution doesn't develop things because they are needed.

It doesn't even elliminate things because they are not needed.


The 'development' of tiny steps happens at random, by mutation.

What evolution does is then elliminate some of the steps developed in that generation, on the basis of which individual gene carriers survive, so that the resulting net effect is non-random.


So blue versus green happened at random and, as long as the environment doesn't penalise one colour over the other, evolution has no incentive to elliminate either possibility, so both survive.

If, however, the environment changes to one in which eye colour does affect survival chances (because, for instance, sexual partners think blue eyes are prettier than green eyes), then over multiple generations you'd see the number of green eyes in the population reducing and the number of blue eyes increasing.




Click my tag to follow me to:


LIVING IN THE ARMS OF JESUS~


Where we Pray, Play and Learn Together

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