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Getting Frustrated

Posted by on Dec. 12, 2011 at 8:49 PM
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Issues with the Cub Master aside since they have been worked out by my coleader being the one to communicate with him. I am getting frustrated with a few of our parents.
We have one who thinks BSA meand Baby Sitting Association. She doesn't even walk in with him to be sure someone is there, she just drops him off and leaves. I have had to borrow a parent from our Tiger Den to be sure I have 2 adults int he room because this child will be dropped off 20 minutes before a meeting and will not be picked up until 10 minutes after our usual time meetings end. Tonight someone picked him up I had never seen or met (the mother is in an interracial marriage, which I did not know and it is none of my business but a kid's safety might have been involved) so I had to call the mom to be sure this stranger was ok to pick up her son. And she got angry, even though I had never even seen this guy and he opened his car window to call the kid to the car.
We have done so many things as a den that cost money and I know that most of our boys would not be able to participate if we asked for dues so the cost of these things comes out of my pocket or the coleader's pocket. Two weeks ago we did achievement 8 and did a fruit tasting as our snack. I brought in different fruits and some juice, again out of my pocket. No one said thank you.
Last week we did the science belt loop, the stuff for our science expiriments came out of the coleader's pocket, again no thank you from the boys.
This week we had a Christmas Party since it was our last meeting before Christmas. I brought in cup cakes and goody bags and we talked about Christmas and the meaning of the holiday, how other people celebrate it, and the other holidays around this time. The kids were given goody bags with a little gift in it. Again, not a single thank you from the parents. One would think that, especially around Christmas, the parents would at least say thank you.
Ok, just had to get that off my chest, lol

by on Dec. 12, 2011 at 8:49 PM
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Replies (1-10):
nuts4scouts
by Bronze Member on Dec. 13, 2011 at 3:14 AM

Yep, parents can be very frustrating.

For the parent that drops her son off early, and picks him up late, I suggest waiting with the boy at the end of the den meeting and talking to his parents about the problem. Explain that if he is dropped off early he might be there all by himself until someone gets there. Requiring all den parents to walk their son into the meeting area (for the boys safety) might help stop the early arrivals.

Late pick-ups are harder. You might try to mention to his parents that you are unable to stay late after meetings so they need to be prompt in picking up their son.

Unless you and your assistant den leader can afford all of the out-of-pocket costs, I suggest you start charging den dues. $15 per boy is only a bit over $0.50 per meeting if you meet three times a month from Sept - May. You could even break it down into three $5 payments.

I would also ask your Pack Committee Chair if the Pack has any policy about helping dens with costs. Some Packs allocate a specific amount of Pack monies for the use of the dens. Others might reimburse dens up to a certain amount with receipts.

You might also consider having each Scout bring in a specific item needed for the following weeks den meeting. That way they are contributing supplies instead of cash.

Also, make sure to keep costs in mind when planning activities/outings. Plan things that are low, to no, cost, and use recycled items when ever possible.

As to the lack of thank you's - consider that the parents and the boys might not know that the costs of things in the den are coming out of your pocket. They might think that the Pack (or even BSA) is paying for everything, and it is all included in the registration they pay every year.

When picking belt loops to do, keep in mind that some belt loops are required, or electives, for Webelos Activity badges, and to qualify must be completed while a Webelos Cub Scout. The Science belt loop is required to earn the Webelos Scientist Activity Badge, so your Wolf Cubs who completed this loop will need to re-do it as a Webelos .

One last note - BSA does not require two adults in a den meeting. The youth protection rule is no one-on-one. You simply have to make sure that the one adult has at least two youth present. In your case, if you are there with your son when the early bird arrives you are OK as you would have 1 adult and 2 youth.

Just take a deep breath and remember that you are doing this for the boys.

Happy Scouting!


manipulationUGH
by on Dec. 13, 2011 at 3:28 AM

Hopefully you respectfully yet firmly told that mother that had the nerve to get mad at you for protecting her child that you were merely concerned for his safety while also informing her of appropriate drop off and pick up times.  Sadly there are just people like that and there is not much we can do but you did the right thing by checking.  In respect to your other issue... I do similar things because I want to.  Did the kids say thank you? People don't always know when you are doing things out of your own pocket and blindly go about life not thinking how these things get done.  Its awful that you are not getting the recognition that you deserve but if you are ding it because you want to instead of feeling obligated then that is the pay off and if you still need that (well deserved) pat on the back then maybe suspend your contributions and when people ask why they are not having a party for this or the supplies for that you can politely inform them that these things are a group effort and the group was not participating! I'm sure your child appreciates it and isn't that why we do what we do?  good luck

MidnightSun327
by Member on Dec. 13, 2011 at 9:08 AM

When we gave the boys the big book to look at during our first meeting to let them choose the belt loops they wanted to work on this year, they all said they wanted to do the science one, even after we told them they would have to do it again in Weblos. They said "We can do it again, or do more and earn the pin!" So they know they will need to earn it again in two years.
Both my coleader and I have spoken to the parent about the issue with the early drop off and late pick up. At this point, we are starting to plan on being there until 10 minutes after the meeting is over. I can't speak for his home life but from what he has said during meetings and how he acts, I have a feeling he doesn't get much attention at home. He is one of those kids you just want to take home and really listen to what he might have to say, know what I mean?
As far as the two deep leadership, 2 adults in the room is actually our Pack's personal policy. Back in the 70's the Pack here ran into some trouble, the Cub Master was caught with some of the boys in a compromising position and the Pack's reputation went down the drain. There are still people who remember the incident and who have chosen to have their boys either not do scouts or have chosen the closest other Pack, which is 45 minutes away one way. So our Pack's policy is two adults.

Quoting nuts4scouts:

Yep, parents can be very frustrating.

For the parent that drops her son off early, and picks him up late, I suggest waiting with the boy at the end of the den meeting and talking to his parents about the problem. Explain that if he is dropped off early he might be there all by himself until someone gets there. Requiring all den parents to walk their son into the meeting area (for the boys safety) might help stop the early arrivals.

Late pick-ups are harder. You might try to mention to his parents that you are unable to stay late after meetings so they need to be prompt in picking up their son.

Unless you and your assistant den leader can afford all of the out-of-pocket costs, I suggest you start charging den dues. $15 per boy is only a bit over $0.50 per meeting if you meet three times a month from Sept - May. You could even break it down into three $5 payments.

I would also ask your Pack Committee Chair if the Pack has any policy about helping dens with costs. Some Packs allocate a specific amount of Pack monies for the use of the dens. Others might reimburse dens up to a certain amount with receipts.

You might also consider having each Scout bring in a specific item needed for the following weeks den meeting. That way they are contributing supplies instead of cash.

Also, make sure to keep costs in mind when planning activities/outings. Plan things that are low, to no, cost, and use recycled items when ever possible.

As to the lack of thank you's - consider that the parents and the boys might not know that the costs of things in the den are coming out of your pocket. They might think that the Pack (or even BSA) is paying for everything, and it is all included in the registration they pay every year.

When picking belt loops to do, keep in mind that some belt loops are required, or electives, for Webelos Activity badges, and to qualify must be completed while a Webelos Cub Scout. The Science belt loop is required to earn the Webelos Scientist Activity Badge, so your Wolf Cubs who completed this loop will need to re-do it as a Webelos .

One last note - BSA does not require two adults in a den meeting. The youth protection rule is no one-on-one. You simply have to make sure that the one adult has at least two youth present. In your case, if you are there with your son when the early bird arrives you are OK as you would have 1 adult and 2 youth.

Just take a deep breath and remember that you are doing this for the boys.

Happy Scouting!



alliebug1
by New Member on Dec. 14, 2011 at 7:46 AM
Scouting policy requires two-deep leadership at all times. Also, until a boy has earned Webelo 1, a parent has to be with the child at all meetings/outings. It states very clearly a "parent or legal guardian"...not a friend, sibling, aunt, uncle and etc.

I suggest checking out the Balloo Training Manual....it provides you with all of the answers to these sticky situations.
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MidnightSun327
by Member on Dec. 14, 2011 at 8:49 AM

Where does it say that in the BSA guidelines, please? I know TIger Cubs need an Adult Partner at every meeting (we actually had to get that overridden for one of our Tigers this year, our Council approved the Tiger's high school freshman sister being his adult partner because their mother is battling Stage 3 breast cancer).

Quoting alliebug1:

Scouting policy requires two-deep leadership at all times. Also, until a boy has earned Webelo 1, a parent has to be with the child at all meetings/outings. It states very clearly a "parent or legal guardian"...not a friend, sibling, aunt, uncle and etc.

I suggest checking out the Balloo Training Manual....it provides you with all of the answers to these sticky situations.


nuts4scouts
by Bronze Member on Dec. 14, 2011 at 12:57 PM


Quoting alliebug1:

Scouting policy requires two-deep leadership at all times. Also, until a boy has earned Webelo 1, a parent has to be with the child at all meetings/outings. It states very clearly a "parent or legal guardian"...not a friend, sibling, aunt, uncle and etc.

I suggest checking out the Balloo Training Manual....it provides you with all of the answers to these sticky situations.

BALOO is outdoor training, and covers overnight camping with the Pack.

The Guide To Safe Scouting contains the BSA Youth Protection policies -

Quote:
Two-deep leadership. Two registered adult leaders, or Two registered adult leaders, or one registered leader and a parent of a participating Scout or other adult, one of whom must be 21 years of age or older, are required for all trips and outings.

No one-on-one contact. One-on-one contact between adults and youth members is not permitted.

BSA's camping policies per the Guide To Safe Scouting -

Quote:
Pack Overnighters - In most cases, each youth member will be under the supervision of a parent or guardian. In all cases, each youth participant is responsible to a specific adult.

Council-Organized Family Camp - Each youth member will be under the supervision of a parent or legal guardian. In special circumstances, a Cub Scout whose parent or legal guardian is not able to attend an overnight camping trip may participate under the supervision of another registered adult member of the BSA who is a parent of a Cub Scout who is also attending. The unit leader and a parent or legal guardian must agree to the arrangement, and all Youth Protection policies apply. At no time may another adult accept responsibility for more than one additional “nonfamily member” youth.

A Webelos Scout may participate in overnight den camping when supervised by an adult. In most cases, the Webelos Scout will be under the supervision of his parent or guardian. It is essential that each Webelos Scout be under the supervision of a parent-approved adult. Joint Webelos den/troop campouts including the parents of the Webelos Scouts are encouraged to strengthen ties between the pack and troop. Den leaders, pack leaders, and parents are expected to accompany the boys on approved trips.

Tiger Cubs may participate in boy-parent excursions, day camps, pack overnighters, or council-organized family camping.

Also, a Cub Scout advances to the next Cub level at the end of the school year. BSA automatically upgrades Cub levels in their computer system on June 1. So a Cub does not have to "earn Webelos 1" to become a Webelos. A Bear Cub Scout becomes a Webelos Cub Scout (BSA has no 1 or 2 designation) on June 1 at the end of his 3rd grade school year (no matter what awards he has earned), and can starting working on, and doing, Webelos level activities.



alliebug1
by New Member on Dec. 14, 2011 at 8:15 PM
Baloo does not only apply to outdoor training and overnight camping. When I said "two-deep leadership" I was referring to a den leader, two members of the leadership team, or a parent/guardian (in this case a Council approved sibling) who are Youth Protection certified. BSA makes numerous accomodations and for varying reasons...I should have clarified my comment a little better.

I understand the advancement process in Cub Scouts and know that a boy can come in at any age, earn their Bobcat and then work towards progress of their particular age group rank. Where I live we have first and second year Webelos; hence the reason I stated it as Webelos 1.

I wasn't trying to offend you with my initial post...I'm sorry if you felt that way. I thought you gave wise advice and appeared to be very knowledgeable. My only intent was to offer another resource for MidnightSun327 to reference.



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MidnightSun327
by Member on Dec. 14, 2011 at 8:48 PM

Thanks for your advice. I was, actually, looking for nuts4scouts advice since she is sort of the go to for the group, lol, kind of like the unofficial Den Mom for all the Scout Moms in the group. But thank you for the info

Quoting alliebug1:

Baloo does not only apply to outdoor training and overnight camping. When I said "two-deep leadership" I was referring to a den leader, two members of the leadership team, or a parent/guardian (in this case a Council approved sibling) who are Youth Protection certified. BSA makes numerous accomodations and for varying reasons...I should have clarified my comment a little better.

I understand the advancement process in Cub Scouts and know that a boy can come in at any age, earn their Bobcat and then work towards progress of their particular age group rank. Where I live we have first and second year Webelos; hence the reason I stated it as Webelos 1.

I wasn't trying to offend you with my initial post...I'm sorry if you felt that way. I thought you gave wise advice and appeared to be very knowledgeable. My only intent was to offer another resource for MidnightSun327 to reference.




nuts4scouts
by Bronze Member on Dec. 15, 2011 at 2:49 AM


Quoting alliebug1:

Baloo does not only apply to outdoor training and overnight camping. When I said "two-deep leadership" I was referring to a den leader, two members of the leadership team, or a parent/guardian (in this case a Council approved sibling) who are Youth Protection certified. BSA makes numerous accomodations and for varying reasons...I should have clarified my comment a little better.

I understand the advancement process in Cub Scouts and know that a boy can come in at any age, earn their Bobcat and then work towards progress of their particular age group rank. Where I live we have first and second year Webelos; hence the reason I stated it as Webelos 1.

I wasn't trying to offend you with my initial post...I'm sorry if you felt that way. I thought you gave wise advice and appeared to be very knowledgeable. My only intent was to offer another resource for MidnightSun327 to reference.

Actually, Basic Adult Leader Outdoor Orientation, or BALOO, while it does necessarily include information on BSA youth protection policies, is first and foremost, as the name states, outdoor training for Cub Scout leaders.

The objectives of the course (from the course syllabus) are -

1. Explain the focus of the Cub Scout level of the BSA camping program.
2. Demonstrate the skills and confidence necessary to plan and carry out a successful, first time Cub Scout-level camping activity.
3. Describe the resources available from the BSA and other sources to carry out this activity.
4. Discuss the requirements for successful completion of this activity.


I was not offended at all. I was simply trying to clarify inaccurate statements of BSA policy.

Although a very good idea, BSA does NOT REQUIRE 2-deep leadership at den meetings. Per my quote above from BSA's Guide to Safe Scouting, 2-deep is required by BSA National only for trips, and outings. At all other times the "no 1-on-1" rule applies.

Of course, your council, and/or your Charter Organization, may make their local rules more stringent than BSA's.


Midnight - For Tiger Partners, I have had moms, dads, both mom and dad together, grandmas, and grandpas. I even had a high school age Boy Scout brother fill in now and then with one Tiger whose parents both had erratic work schedules. I have also had Tiger Partners bring one of the other Tigers, along with their own, to a meeting when the other Tiger Partner could not make it.

For dealing with parents, you just have to be flexible, firm (yes sounds like a contradiction I know!), and grow a thicker skin.

Good Luck, and Happy Scouting!!


sprout18
by New Member on Dec. 22, 2011 at 3:55 PM

Our pack has made a rule that all scouts (including Webelos) have to have a parent on site at all times. We know its not a BSA rule but we made that rule as a pack and we tell all people who are registering or interested in the pack our rule. Cub Scouts is about parents and scouts working together and bonding and they can't really do that if they are just dropping off their scout and going home. It also makes it easier for pickup cause all the parents are already there. No parents in our pack seem to mind and we have a fairly large pack this year.

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