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The Venting Booth The Venting Booth

Vaccinations debate, a LUXURY in the U.S.

Anonymous
Posted by Anonymous
  • 200 Replies
40 moms liked this

I know this is a heated topic and one that has been repeatedly visited.

Here in MN we had an outbreak of Measles, it was traced back to one unvaccinated child who has visited Kenya and came back having been exposed and ended up developing it and ended up exposing tons of other people to it.

Today one of my friend's daughters just had a child a few months ago and I saw her post about if she was the only one who doesn't believe in shots because they're REALLY bad for you...and when people replied with links to info about the outbreak in MN she responded with oh so you believe everything you read on facebook...it was a medical science link that was reliable for info.

There are SOME shots I don't believe in (flu shot being among them) BUT I don't want my children to suffer from illnesses that are preventable. I know that a lot of damage was done to vaccinations because of a quack UK doctor who has since been charged with fraud and a ton of things but why is it, this one doctor who was a liar can hold power over scientific fact? Why are people so quick to believe disproven ideas?

We have gotten so used to our kids not getting sick, not having diseases that are preventable, not dying from said diseases that we feel comfortable to ignore vaccinations, we don't see the threat, we've forgotten that it wasn't too long ago kids were in iron lungs trying to save them from polio that even if they survived they would be scarred and marred for life in some way (limping, joint problems, etc). The majority of Baby Boomers are in their 60s and most of them knew at least one person who had gotten seriously ill from something we now vaccinate against. We are so quick to forget history, and lessons from the past. Is it because we live in a society of instant gratification that we think well we don't see the good results from vaccinating so we shouldn't vaccinate because of all the bad that COULD happen? I am just fed up with parents who don't see the value or science in vaccinations and only see the bad because of ONE doctor and anedotal evidence. They rely on wordpress.com instead of science journals or at least places that they can site their sources and info which is reliable.

It is a luxury to have this debate and to not have to worry about children dying in numbers from these illnesses. The United States is 4 or 5 generations removed (at least 3) from these illnesses and diseases that killed kids and were widespread and part of life. We have the luxury of forgetting what these do to kids!  People freak out when there's a flu around that's killing people but measles and other preventable illnesses are okay to spread around even though their effects are long term and can result in death?? Parents here get mad when a sick kid comes to their house and gets their kid sick...how will vaxers and non alike feel when their kids get potentially deadly illnesses from school and their friends?

UPDATE: THIS IS NOT TO BRING UP THE DEBATE ABOUT IF THEY ARE SAFE OR NOT. But a THought on IF the U.S. has more outbreaks or was more like African countries and other places where fighting diseases/illnesses that can be prevented or lessened by vaccinations IF this debate would even exist! It seems like we debate things because we have the luxury to do so and ignore the science behind it all  because we can and because we've never buried kids from these illnesses or watched them get sick from them or didn't know someone who had. 

Posted by Anonymous on Jun. 24, 2014 at 6:34 PM
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Anonymous
by Anonymous on Jun. 24, 2014 at 6:47 PM
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Mama, I'm right there with you but this is one of those topics that makes people dig in their heels. I don't think that people are going to believe the threat from diseases is real until a whole lot more kids get sick and/or die from them when they make a comeback. And even then there will likely be debate about whether it was actually a lack of vaccination that killed them. I have given up trying to have this conversation with people, TBH.

Anonymous
by Anonymous on Jun. 24, 2014 at 7:09 PM
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I agree with the above poster. This issue will be like talking to a brick wall. Watch and see...
Anonymous
by Anonymous on Jun. 24, 2014 at 8:36 PM
3 moms liked this

I agree. Its just plain stupidity. I don't understand those poeple either. 

Rosehawk
by Bronze Member on Jun. 24, 2014 at 8:39 PM
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We had a whooping cough epidemic here not too long ago (within the last couple of years) because parents weren't vaccinating their kids.

The ONLY vaccinations we decline are flu shots and the one agains HPV.

Anonymous
by Anonymous on Jun. 24, 2014 at 8:43 PM
11 moms liked this

What about the outbreaks happening in fully vaccinated people?  If you'll notice, mainstream media quietly omits ANY information on the percentage of people vaccinated and who still contracted said disease. The mumps outbreak is a good example, as is the whooping cough outbreak in Ca.

Anonymous
by Anonymous on Jun. 24, 2014 at 8:47 PM
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"Immunization leads to less chance that the immunized person will get infected at all with the pertussis disease. And of course, they can't pass it if they never catch it."

With some other vaccines it works that way, but not with DTaP/Tdap. It supposedly lessens symptoms (this is arguable in my opinion after reading studies about observer bias for this vaccine) but does not prevent infection.

http://pediatrics.aappublications.or...act/104/6/1381

Quote:
"...all pertussis vaccines tend to modify duration and severity of disease rather than completely preventing illness."

http://iai.asm.org/cgi/content/full/68/12/7152

Quote:
"It is becoming clear that B. pertussis bacteria are capable of infecting and proliferating in a large proportion of vaccinated individuals. In one study, 33% of the exposed individuals receiving the highly effective five-component acellular pertussis vaccine had evidence of infection and 24% coughed for 21 days or more. In the same study, 82% of individuals receiving a licensed whole-cell vaccine had evidence of infection and 65% coughed for 21 days or more."

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/eid/vol6no5/srugo.htm

Quote:
"The whole-cell vaccine for pertussis is protective only against clinical disease, not against infection. Therefore, even young, recently vaccinated children may serve as reservoirs and potential transmitters of infection."

The reason is the P portion of DTaP and Tdap doesn't induce bactericidal activity in vaccinated individuals. So vaccinating someone doesn't make them clear the bacteria from their lungs.

http://iai.asm.org/cgi/content/abstract/68/12/7175

Quote:
"We found no evidence that acellular vaccines promoted antibody-dependent killing by complement of enhanced phagocytosis by neutrophils."

Thus going around and vaccinating adults for pertussis isn't going to stop them from carrying the bacteria and transmitting it to babies. The vaccine doesn't work that way. The point of the vaccine is to be "immune" to the toxin the bacteria release that irritates the lungs (thus making you cough), so that you cough less severely and for 5-10 days less than an unvaccinated person.

Tracys2
by on Jun. 24, 2014 at 8:48 PM
10 moms liked this

MIL is older. She saw the kids die, be permanently disfigured, cry in their beds for weeks, permanently lose sight and hearing (her family had 2 deaf-due-to-illness).... all people she knew. We have no idea.

She doesn't get the anti-vax at ALL.

Anonymous
by Anonymous - Original Poster on Jun. 24, 2014 at 11:42 PM
5 moms liked this


Herd Immunity. The more that are immunized the easier it is to avoid or fight infection (if you don't believe in the human science behind it, look at animals in the wild and studies about them when they have some that are immune to an illness and others that aren't). There are times that yes the immunization needs a booster or that they wore off. And in the reports on the MN meales outbreak it broke down how many were and weren't immunized. The outbreak was linked to a child who was unvaccinated from a Somali family who had gone to Kenya and came back with it and exposed his daycare and family to the illness. 16 of the 21 cases were unvaccinated! was the largest outbreak in more than 20 years!

Quoting Anonymous:

What about the outbreaks happening in fully vaccinated people?  If you'll notice, mainstream media quietly omits ANY information on the percentage of people vaccinated and who still contracted said disease. The mumps outbreak is a good example, as is the whooping cough outbreak in Ca.


Anonymous
by Anonymous on Jun. 25, 2014 at 6:15 AM
4 moms liked this

herd immunity is a myth, considering all the unvaxed/undervaxed adults around...only 20% of adults are up to date - how does that help 'herd immunity'?  And, just because one person has a disease, does not render any vaccine useless in someone else. 

Quoting Anonymous:


Herd Immunity. The more that are immunized the easier it is to avoid or fight infection (if you don't believe in the human science behind it, look at animals in the wild and studies about them when they have some that are immune to an illness and others that aren't). There are times that yes the immunization needs a booster or that they wore off. And in the reports on the MN meales outbreak it broke down how many were and weren't immunized. The outbreak was linked to a child who was unvaccinated from a Somali family who had gone to Kenya and came back with it and exposed his daycare and family to the illness. 16 of the 21 cases were unvaccinated! was the largest outbreak in more than 20 years!

Quoting Anonymous:

What about the outbreaks happening in fully vaccinated people?  If you'll notice, mainstream media quietly omits ANY information on the percentage of people vaccinated and who still contracted said disease. The mumps outbreak is a good example, as is the whooping cough outbreak in Ca.



Anonymous
by Anonymous on Jun. 25, 2014 at 6:16 AM
4 moms liked this

Also, please explain the fully vaccinated contracting mumps, and passing it others who were 'immunized' as well. 

Quoting Anonymous:


Herd Immunity. The more that are immunized the easier it is to avoid or fight infection (if you don't believe in the human science behind it, look at animals in the wild and studies about them when they have some that are immune to an illness and others that aren't). There are times that yes the immunization needs a booster or that they wore off. And in the reports on the MN meales outbreak it broke down how many were and weren't immunized. The outbreak was linked to a child who was unvaccinated from a Somali family who had gone to Kenya and came back with it and exposed his daycare and family to the illness. 16 of the 21 cases were unvaccinated! was the largest outbreak in more than 20 years!

Quoting Anonymous:

What about the outbreaks happening in fully vaccinated people?  If you'll notice, mainstream media quietly omits ANY information on the percentage of people vaccinated and who still contracted said disease. The mumps outbreak is a good example, as is the whooping cough outbreak in Ca.



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