For those of us who learned English SECOND (or third, or...you get it), are there any specific challenges, frustrations or stories you'd like to share regarding that experience?
I live in Texas, and with the large Mexican population, I've noticed that people tend to condescend when it's clear that English isn't someone's first language. Like these individuals are somehow stupid for not knowing my language as well as I do. I always want to ask (and, depending on the situation, DO ask) how many languages THAT person knows. Usually, the answer is "One," and it always floors me how a person with knowledge of only one language can so readily disrespect someone with two.
What have been your experiences with this?
(I don't mean to indicate that people who only know one language are stupid. I don't know any foreign languages, and my ASL is pathetic. I just mean to say that people take it for granted what a truly difficult language English is to learn.)
Let's see.
I learned most of my English via ESL classes when I was in third grade. I do remember the non-ESL students making fun of us (the ESL students). All the kids: Caucasian, African American and even other Latino kids. I have to say that in MY case, the Latino kids that already knew English were very harsh on the rest of us that were just learning.
I remember being sad and not understanding why kids where being mean. I was born here, I was just like them, I just didn't know the language perfectly. I understood and whatnot, from what I learned on Sesame Street, but that was the extent of it.
All it took was my mom telling me that one day, I would be worth TWO people because I knew two languages. Yeah, take THAT mean kids!
Owner: CIO Alternatives
Admin: The Gay Bug
Quoting ivansmom07:
Let's see.
I learned most of my English via ESL classes when I was in third grade. I do remember the non-ESL students making fun of us (the ESL students). All the kids: Caucasian, African American and even other Latino kids. I have to say that in MY case, the Latino kids that already knew English were very harsh on the rest of us that were just learning.
Had I not learned English before my family immigrated to the States in my early teens, my experience with peers would have been the same as yours. Though that's not to say that kids didn't make fun of Asians (or anyone who was different-looking for that matter). They assumed that the newly-immigrated Asian kids were dumb, slow-witted, and knew little or no English, and thus didn't understand their insults. Little did they know, curse words are the first thing one learns. :)
Sadly, my fluency in my first language is poor; it comes out half English and only with prompted. I'm still bilingual, though my second language is not my mother tongue. :(
Quoting arthistmom:
Sadly, my fluency in my first language is poor; it comes out half English and only with prompted. I'm still bilingual, though my second language is not my mother tongue. :(
Heh...I have a friend who speaks primarily English (even in the home, which surprised me), and her husband speaks primarily Spanish. Somehow, her eldest only spoke Spanish, and her second only spoke English. The youngest just kind of says stuff, and has no idea what language she's saying it in.
I only speak one language but totally hear where you are coming from. Being raised in Texas but not originally from here, I see a lot of that. I think most of it is that society looks down, period, on Hispanics seeing them as second class. Most that do this are usually basing their hate and discontent off things they don't even know are to be true and the other part is they are all stupid, LOL. I think anyone that speaks more than one language is doing something great - broadening their learning by trying to at least understand what others are saying. In America we seem to feel as though we are too good to learn another language and that everyone should bow down and speak ours. In Africa, there are over 200 spoken languages. I had friend from there that spoke 5!!! I could only imagine the conversations he had. I only wish I had learned when my mother forced us to back in high school. My brother and sister are fairly fluent in Spanish but I am another case. I plan on learning though now that I have recently moved back into the area.
Good question!!!
Quoting BigMommaJesca:
For those of us who learned English SECOND (or third, or...you get it), are there any specific challenges, frustrations or stories you'd like to share regarding that experience?
I live in Texas, and with the large Mexican population, I've noticed that people tend to condescend when it's clear that English isn't someone's first language. Like these individuals are somehow stupid for not knowing my language as well as I do. I always want to ask (and, depending on the situation, DO ask) how many languages THAT person knows. Usually, the answer is "One," and it always floors me how a person with knowledge of only one language can so readily disrespect someone with two.
What have been your experiences with this?
(I don't mean to indicate that people who only know one language are stupid. I don't know any foreign languages, and my ASL is pathetic. I just mean to say that people take it for granted what a truly difficult language English is to learn.)
chorus, that no person is your friend (or kin) who demands your silence, or
denies your right to grow and be perceived as fully blossomed as you were
intended. Or who belittles in any fashion the gifts you labor so to bring
into the world."
- Alice Walker-
Quoting Vonnesure:
In America we seem to feel as though we are too good to learn another language and that everyone should bow down and speak ours.
I know! This mentality drives me NUTS! I know I seem like a hypocrite, only knowing American languages (English, ASL, Pig Latin), but I'm DEFINITELY not going to look down on anyone who knows more than I do!
Quoting Vonnesure:
In America we seem to feel as though we are too good to learn another language and that everyone should bow down and speak ours. In Africa, there are over 200 spoken languages. I had friend from there that spoke 5!!! I could only imagine the conversations he had.
I think you're right to some extent. I've heard one theory that argues that America's geography perhaps plays a part in its citizens' reluctance to learn another language. For example, given the size of the European continent and the close proximity of countries with different languages/cultures to each other, it is out of necessity for Europeans to speak more than one language.
In America, however, there isn't the same need, thus there isn't the same desire. And for the most part, Americans don't really expect to travel so far and so long from home to need competent foreign-language speaking skills to communicate. So the thinking goes, if one isn't going to need the skill, why learn it? Practical, but perhaps short-sighted, limiting, and a little sad. And, of course, when some Americans do travel abroad, they insist on speaking only English--and loudly. Even in foreign countries, some American visitors assume that it is the native population who will make the linguistic and cultural adjustments rather than the other way around.
Quoting arthistmom:
And for the most part, Americans don't really expect to travel so far and so long from home to need competent foreign-language speaking skills to communicate.
This, I think, is part of the problem. Why DON'T Americans travel more? You learn SO MUCH and get to have such different experiences than what you're used to!
The only thing I can figure is, because most of America is poor, like me, and we can't AFFORD an Italian holiday (the only places I've been are Canada and Mexico, RIGHT over the border, and we drove). But...that makes NO sense. 80% of the people in the world don't have a toilet. I have TWO toilets. We're the richest people in the world, so we can't say "We're American, so we're too poor."
I bet I could afford an Italian holiday if I went a year without eating at Chili's. But I won't. Because I'm American, and I like my Chili's.
Quoting BigMommaJesca:
Why DON'T Americans travel more? You learn SO MUCH and get to have such different experiences than what you're used to!
The only thing I can figure is, because most of America is poor, like me, and we can't AFFORD an Italian holiday (the only places I've been are Canada and Mexico, RIGHT over the border, and we drove). But...that makes NO sense. 80% of the people in the world don't have a toilet. I have TWO toilets. We're the richest people in the world, so we can't say "We're American, so we're too poor."
I bet I could afford an Italian holiday if I went a year without eating at Chili's. But I won't. Because I'm American, and I like my Chili's.
I don’t know if the reason lies so much with lack of funds or not being able to afford it as much as valuing travel as an important life experience. I’m certain that there are many wealthy people who wouldn’t trade American comforts for the unpredictable adventure of foreign travel. At the same time, I’ve known many people who are not-so-wealthy (my friends and myself included) who found a way to have the experience--and we did it as students. We didn’t rely on our parents (there’s a myth that young people’s jaunts abroad are paid for by well-to-do parents) but funded our own travel by working hard, scrimping and saving. Traveling (and living) abroad is an experience like no other and the benefits are profound.
Incidentally, if you ever plan an Italian holiday, let me know. I’ve been around the Italian peninsula a few times (even lived there as a student), so I’d be delighted to suggest sites to see. If I can fit into your luggage, I’d be more than happy to accompany you. :)
I only know one language (English) and sometimes even that is questionable. I admire anyone who can read, write and/or understand another. We have a friend who owns a construction biz - he did some work on our house - while here he asked a question in Portugese, was answered in Russian, passed on the info in Spanish, then translated it all to English to me, as I stood there stupefied! I was so impressed and in awe.
- BigMommaJesca
on Jan. 5, 2009 at 2:56 PM