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guns, religion, and media rant!

Posted by on Dec. 18, 2012 at 9:14 AM
  • 27 Replies
4 moms liked this
I am so sick of hearing, "ban guns, it's the only answer" .... Because CLEARLY criminals listen to laws. Because meth, weed, and coke are illegal and I'm sure everybody follows those laws. Stupid, just not logical what so ever. There was a mass murder in China, a man killed twenty two children with a KNIFE before he was brought down. "oh no we must ban knifes" on 9 11 terrorist used box cutters and an airplane ... you wanna ban box cutters too?

Also... I seen this post on fb. "dear God why do you let such tragedies happen in our schools, signed concerned student" " dear concerned student, because I am not invited, love God" if Goddidn't stop a tragedy because this ohh great creator was not invited, what a sick sadistic bastard you people actually believe in. God must not have been invited backstage of all those churches the priest preaching gods love took kids innocents. The.end.
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by on Dec. 18, 2012 at 9:14 AM
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lclmom
by on Dec. 18, 2012 at 9:48 AM
1 mom liked this

 i feel the same way its heartbreaking and it makes me sick, but unfortunately that's the way it is in life these days no matter how much we believe or how much we try there will always be lives takin and homes wrecked but the more publicity people give about these sad things the more others will want to or the more people will be depressed and threatening to ban guns is not helping at all so again i completely agree with you...

heartagram_girl
by on Dec. 18, 2012 at 9:57 AM

 I think it is wrong as well. You bring up a good point- weed, meth, etc are illegal but somehow people get a hold of it all. Banning guns, making them 'taboo' isnt the way to go. Educate the general public- teach them the pros and cons of both owning guns and not owning guns. Besides, didnt Obama just sent missiles and fighter jets to Turkey? Isnt that kinda hypocritical? I know fully automatic guns are illegal- but people can still get a hold of them. There are loopholes. Ways to get things that are 'illegal'. 

I was forcefed the same Christian stuff as a child. It never sat right. If God was almight and loved us, then why did He allow bad things to happen to young children- children 'without sin'? If He was our Father, then why doesnt He do more to protect us? Doesnt make any sense to me.

And God saying He wasnt 'invited'? Bull. He is almighty. If he really cared, He would have been there to protect those young fragile lives with so much to live for.

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hinmank92
by on Dec. 18, 2012 at 10:12 AM
Exactly. In times like these people act, think, and speak with emotion and religion like it is that simple. It's not. At all. For every legal gun taken away ten illegal guns are purchased. Leaving innocent people with no way to protect their homes from criminals with illegal guns. Leaving the sport of hunting, no longer. Tragedies happen, if every single weaponin this world were banned CRIMINALS would still,find,a way... There is NO answer, except higher security and escape plans in schools but that will not stop the tragedies in malls, theaters, streets.... And as for religion in public schools.... Uhm no. I don't shove my non beliefs on people and would appreciate it if it wasn't shoved down my child once she's old enough to attend school.. If people want God in their kids school then they can send their kids to private schools
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StarryRain
by on Dec. 18, 2012 at 10:25 AM
Tragedies such as this are not the place for anyone's political agenda. (not you OP)

And it seems like everyone forgets that in the Columbine shootings, the victims were all asked if they believed in God, and then we're killed after claiming to. Um... Sounds to me like God was all over that, and still didn't call down the heavenly hosts to save those kids.
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TexasWife
by on Dec. 18, 2012 at 10:38 AM

I didn't know that about columbine. I knew around the same time a church here had a gun man come in on a shooting spree. The world forgets not everyone believes in God. God is a powerful person in your life if you believe in him. He is not all powerful when it comes to those who do not believe in him. Does that make any sense?

Quoting StarryRain:

Tragedies such as this are not the place for anyone's political agenda. (not you OP)

And it seems like everyone forgets that in the Columbine shootings, the victims were all asked if they believed in God, and then we're killed after claiming to. Um... Sounds to me like God was all over that, and still didn't call down the heavenly hosts to save those kids.


rwebb11
by Bronze Member on Dec. 18, 2012 at 10:58 AM
God gives everyone free will to do as we want. Otherwise we would all be robots. Unfortunately God has to allow people to use this free will. The awful person that killed these poor children was just orchestrating his right to free will. I hope this makes senses and helps a little bit.


Quoting heartagram_girl:

 I think it is wrong as well. You bring up a good point- weed, meth, etc are illegal but somehow people get a hold of it all. Banning guns, making them 'taboo' isnt the way to go. Educate the general public- teach them the pros and cons of both owning guns and not owning guns. Besides, didnt Obama just sent missiles and fighter jets to Turkey? Isnt that kinda hypocritical? I know fully automatic guns are illegal- but people can still get a hold of them. There are loopholes. Ways to get things that are 'illegal'. 


I was forcefed the same Christian stuff as a child. It never sat right. If God was almight and loved us, then why did He allow bad things to happen to young children- children 'without sin'? If He was our Father, then why doesnt He do more to protect us? Doesnt make any sense to me.


And God saying He wasnt 'invited'? Bull. He is almighty. If he really cared, He would have been there to protect those young fragile lives with so much to live for.


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Fields456
by on Dec. 18, 2012 at 11:00 AM
I can get my hands on weed coke X meth etc. easier than I could
Go out and buy a gun ( and no I don't do any drugs but I know plenty of ppl who do ). And with out a 3 day waiting period
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BrookeNicole86
by on Dec. 18, 2012 at 11:03 AM
This drives me crazy.

When something great happens, it's so often because of "divine intervention" or "God's amazing power".

But when something bad happens, it's all because of free will, and not something that God could have prevented.

You can't have it both ways. He either helps, or he doesn't.


Quoting rwebb11:

God gives everyone free will to do as we want. Otherwise we would all be robots. Unfortunately God has to allow people to use this free will. The awful person that killed these poor children was just orchestrating his right to free will. I hope this makes senses and helps a little bit.




Quoting heartagram_girl:

 I think it is wrong as well. You bring up a good point- weed, meth, etc are illegal but somehow people get a hold of it all. Banning guns, making them 'taboo' isnt the way to go. Educate the general public- teach them the pros and cons of both owning guns and not owning guns. Besides, didnt Obama just sent missiles and fighter jets to Turkey? Isnt that kinda hypocritical? I know fully automatic guns are illegal- but people can still get a hold of them. There are loopholes. Ways to get things that are 'illegal'. 



I was forcefed the same Christian stuff as a child. It never sat right. If God was almight and loved us, then why did He allow bad things to happen to young children- children 'without sin'? If He was our Father, then why doesnt He do more to protect us? Doesnt make any sense to me.



And God saying He wasnt 'invited'? Bull. He is almighty. If he really cared, He would have been there to protect those young fragile lives with so much to live for.



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GirlWSemiAuto
by on Dec. 18, 2012 at 11:05 AM

 I agree with you about the kneejerk reactions asking to ban guns. Most restrictions on gun ownership only make it more diffiicult for law abiding citizens like me.

 As far as God's place in all of this, I don't have all of the answers. I don't like to get preachy but I'll share the words of wiser men that have brought me comfort in the past. Please bear with me as it is long and full of Christian references:


Quote:

 

Why do bad things happen to good people?

Why does a good God allow bad things to happen to good people? Why does God allow evil? Why doesn’t God end all evil?

Often when we ask these questions we want an emotional response--it's not our mind that needs an answer; it's our heart. And that's where this will fall short. We can offer an intellectual response, but the emotional area is one where God will have to work because only He can provide the full comfort and healing that our hearts desire where issues like this are concerned. And He can give us comfort, assurance, and peace even if He doesn’t provide us with all the answers we want. So here’s an attempt to offer some response for our minds, with the hopes that it will help a little toward the desire for a response for our hearts.

We are all touched by pain, suffering, and injustice in the world. It may be evil experienced by others, or it may be something we personally experience. And sometimes this suffering and evil causes us to ask questions that people have asked throughout the ages: "Why, God? Why did you allow that to happen? Why me? Why this pain? Where were you?" And this is really one of the most complex problems that anyone has to address.

It's very important to distinguish between the issue of evil and suffering as a philosophic problem and the problem of evil from a personal perspective. Why does the evil happen in the world? That's the philosophic question. Why does evil hurt me? That's an emotional issue—coming from a personal perspective. Even people who have resolved the issue of evil philosophically still shudder under its impact when it hits them. Even though their mind may have answers their heart still asks "Why?" when they become victimized by evil in the world. There is no way to give a response that will completely satisfy everyone in every situation. The truth is that in this world there will never be a complete or thorough resolution for this problem. We will never have all of our questions answered. Still, there are a few thoughts that might help as we deal with problems of evil both outside and inside our lives. First we will deal with the philosophic issue and then deal briefly with the personal issue.

When we hear about people who cause pain and suffering, especially on those who are innocent, such as children, we could ask God, "Why did you create such monsters?" This question presumes God made humans this way. But the Bible says this isn't the case. The Bible does not teach that God created monsters. It teaches that He created human beings that were good. God didn't create humans with an inclination toward evil. But He did make humans with the possibility of going wrong. Thus the question may be more about the character of God. "How could You do this? What kind of God are you? Are you for real?" People ask these and other questions when struggling with evil. In other words, when they see this kind of thing they don't question the character of humans, which would make the most sense. Instead they attack the character of God.

Some go further and claim that since there is evil in the world then God can't exist. But this isn't reasonable response. Think of the nature of evil. Evil is a value judgment that must be measured against a morally perfect standard in order to be meaningful. In other words, something is evil in that it departs from a perfect standard of good. C.S. Lewis made the point in his book, Mere Christianity, "My argument against God was that the universe seemed so cruel and unjust. But how had I got this idea of just and unjust? A man does not call something crooked unless he has some idea of a straight line." Lewis goes on to point out that a portrait is a good or a bad likeness depending on how it compares with the "perfect" original. So to talk about evil, which is a departure from good, actually presumes something that exists that is absolutely good. If there is no God then there's no perfect standard, no absolute right or wrong, and therefore there can be no departure from that standard. So if there is no God, there can't be any evil, only personal likes and dislikes.

This is the big problem with "moral relativism," which says that morality is relative or just a matter of personal taste: you have your opinion of what's good or bad, but it might not be my opinion. To most people moral relativism is no different than preferring steak over broccoli, or fruit instead of chocolate cake. The truth is that our world is drowning in a sea of moral relativism. If everything is allowed then nothing is disallowed, nothing is wrong, nothing is ultimately evil. Thus if moral relativism is true, then we can't say that anything is absolutely evil--it's all a matter of perspective. To put it another way, if there is no God, then morals are all relative, whether they relate to lying, stealing, cheating, abusing, killing, or whatever. And if moral relativism is true, then something like true moral evil can't exist because evil becomes a relative thing.

But almost everyone agrees that there are things that are intrinsically evil. What Hitler and the Nazis did to 6 million Jews was evil. What happened in Darfur or in Rwanda in the 90s was intrinsically evil. Thus to argue against the existence of God based on the existence of evil forces us into saying something like this: Evil exists, therefore there is no God. But if there is no God then good and evil are relative and not absolute, so true evil doesn't exist, contradicting the first point. Simply put, there cannot be a world in which it makes any sense to say that evil is real and at the same time say that God doesn't exist. If there is no God then nothing is ultimately bad, deplorable, tragic or worthy of blame. The converse, by the way, is also true if we embrace this argument: Nothing is ultimately good, honorable, noble or worthy of praise. Everything is ultimately lost in a twilight zone of moral nothingness.

But the existence of evil forces us into an answer that assumes there is a God. This is a good thing. If atheism cannot provide a solution to the problem, and some kind of deity is necessary, then theism is one of the only satisfying personal solutions to the problem. For example, if you are suffering with some kind of pain or evil in your life and you come to the conclusion that there is no God, what is the solution to the problem of your personal pain? In that case the only solution is that your personal pain and suffering are meaningless. They are useless. In fact, many of the eastern religions hold that the world is just an illusion, and that evil simply doesn't exist. But anyone who has experienced pain or evil knows that it does exist. It is real and it impacts our lives. So neither atheism or eastern religion provides any comfort.

But if there is a God, and if that God is the God of the Bible, then at least we have the potential of an answer. There's the potential of some kind of comfort. God is ultimately good and just, and one day the accounts will be perfectly balanced. We can place ourselves in the hands of a powerful Creator who, by all other evidence, loves us, cares for us, and comforts the afflicted. He is the One who will hold us close to Himself. So there is at least the possibility that this suffering and pain can make sense because God can use it for good in our lives.

Still, we might ask, "Why does God put up with this kind of evil in the world? The abuse of children, for example?" Perhaps the best response is that God puts up with that kind of evil for the same reason He puts up with my evil and with your evil for the time being. The issue of justice cuts both ways. One way to look at it is to consider this question: If God wiped out all the evil in the world tonight at midnight, where would any of us be at 12:01am? The fact is that God will be completely thorough when He finally deals with evil. C.S. Lewis, in Mere Christianity, makes the point when he says, "I wonder whether people who ask God to interfere openly and directly in our world quite realize what it will be like when He does.... When the author walks on the stage the play is over." Evil deeds can never be isolated from evil doers. And all of us are evil doers. In human thinking it's just a matter of degree as to how much evil we have done--what I’ve done is nowhere near as bad as what someone else has done. But from God's perspective we all look the same--we have all failed to measure up to His standards. The Bible says, "There is no one righteous, not even one…there is no one who does good, not even one" (Romans 3:10,12).

It's strange that no one raises the issue of whether one ought to continue to believe in the goodness of man after certain tragedies. We see things like the Holocaust, the crime level, the innocent suffering at the hands of other human beings and more often than not, instead of shaking our fists at people who perpetrate the action we shake our fists at God. One man stated, "Whenever I meet someone who claims to find faith in God impossible, but who persists in believing in the essential goodness of humanity, I know that I have met a person for whom evidence is irrelevant." (Ultimate Issues, July- September, 1989)

Another way to look at it is to consider a different question: If we want God to stop evil, do we want Him to stop all evil, or just some of it? In other words, if we want Him to stop just some of it, then why? If He were to stop only part of the evil, then we would still be asking the question, "Why is there evil in the world?"

Suppose that someone was about to commit murder. God would have to stop him, maybe whisper in his ear, or if that didn't work, do something a little more drastic, like have something fall on him, or stop his heart, or make his hands suddenly fall off. Anyway, God would have to do something. What if somebody wanted to steal? God would have to stop him too, right? Undoubtedly, God might employ a more practical method, but the end results would be the same. What about lying? If someone were about to tell a lie, then to be consistent wouldn't you want God right there to stop that person from lying? After all, He couldn't let any evil occur, could He? Let's take it a step further. Suppose someone thought something evil. Then, of course, God would have to step in and prevent him from thinking anything bad at all, right? The end result would be that God could not allow anyone to think freely. Since everyone thinks, and no one thinks only pure thoughts, God would be pretty busy, and we wouldn't be able to think much of anything! Anyway, at what point do we stop--at the murder level, stealing level, lying level, or thinking level? If we want God to stop evil, we would have to be consistent and want Him to do it everywhere all the time, not just pick and choose.

Evil is in this world partly because we give it its place but ultimately because God, in His sovereignty, permits it and keeps it under His control. Thus some people ask, "Couldn't God just make us perfect and that way we wouldn't sin?" He already did that. He made a perfect angel, Lucifer (Satan), but he sinned. He made a perfect man, Adam, and he sinned. He made a perfect woman, Eve, and she sinned. God knows what He is doing. He made us the way we are for a purpose. We don't fully understand that purpose, but He does.

God is sovereign; He has the right to do as He wishes. Sometimes He permits evil because it accomplishes His ultimate will. How does that happen? He did it with the cross. It was by evil means that men lied about and crucified Jesus. Yet God in His infinite wisdom used this evil for good: It was on the cross that Jesus paid the penalty for our sins. It was on the cross that Jesus brought about forgiveness of sins for us. It was on the cross that the only real innocent Man in the history of the world suffered what seemed to be the most horrible injustice. But the truth is that even in that injustice God brought about good for humanity.

Also consider the example of Joseph in the Old Testament. His story is told in almost all of Genesis 37-50. He was sold into slavery by his brothers. Though they meant it for evil, God meant it for good (Genesis 50:20). God is so great that nothing happens without His permission, and in that permission His ultimate plan unfolds. In His plan He is able to use for good what humans intend for evil.

God will put an end to evil one day. That will be the day when Jesus come back from heaven. Everything will change. So why doesn’t God send Jesus back right now? Why doesn’t He wipe out all evil and suffering immediately? The Bible says that “The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise [to return from heaven]…. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance” (2 Peter 3:9). When Jesus comes back, it’s all over. There won’t be another opportunity for anyone to enter into a relationship with Christ and experience the forgiveness and eternal life that God offers to everyone. It’s hard for us to understand how God could love some people so much He would keep giving them the opportunity to come into a relationship with Him (especially those people we think are absolutely evil and worthless). But again, when God looks at any human being who doesn’t have a relationship with Him, He sees our human nature that’s been marred by sin. It’s disgusting. It’s hideous. But that’s not all He sees. He sees what we can be if we have faith in Christ, accept His forgiveness for our sin, and allow Him to transform us into the masterpiece He envisions. God won’t wait indefinitely for every person to come into a relationship with Him. But He waits a little longer because of His incredible love for people. That’s something we will never fully understand. But most of us are thankful that in His love He looked beyond our sin and saw the life He had planned for us. We should be thankful that He waited for us, and trust that He is at work even in His waiting for others. Even when bad things happen, we can be certain that "In all things God works for the good of those who love Him, who have been called according to His purpose" (Romans 8:28).


StarryRain
by on Dec. 18, 2012 at 11:12 AM
Lolz, that was only the devil's advocate argument for the OP.

Quoting TexasWife:

I didn't know that about columbine. I knew around the same time a church here had a gun man come in on a shooting spree. The world forgets not everyone believes in God. God is a powerful person in your life if you believe in him. He is not all powerful when it comes to those who do not believe in him. Does that make any sense?

Quoting StarryRain:

Tragedies such as this are not the place for anyone's political agenda. (not you OP)



And it seems like everyone forgets that in the Columbine shootings, the victims were all asked if they believed in God, and then we're killed after claiming to. Um... Sounds to me like God was all over that, and still didn't call down the heavenly hosts to save those kids.


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