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Shallow latch, 4 wks old, PLEASE help! gdiamante?

Posted by on Sep. 28, 2010 at 2:55 PM
  • 32 Replies

 this is my 3rd baby. 

My first did the EXACT same thing this baby is doing.  My second was perfect nurser we never had a problem.

 

Here's what happened with my first and now third:

1.)  right after birth, seemed uninterested in nursing.
2.) eventually latched on, but seemed kind of shallow and didn't want to NURSE but just suck and sleep.
3.) took advantage of let-down but tapered off interest shortly after.
4.) infrequent BMs, lots of pees, lots of sleep.
5.) finally, got sore nipples around 3 weeks.  Over 24 hours it got toe-curling.  white patches the next day. THRUSH

6.) within a few days, i had peeling, cracking nipples.

7.) VASOSPASM.  Blanching, Reynaud's phenomenon, compression lines, all the signs of a shallow latch causing my nipples damage and trauma and so much pain that the blood retreats leaving my nipples feeling like they're in vice grips made of frozen coldness.

 

CRYING, painful latching on.  I latch and unlatch.  She just wants to suck the nipple.  Her top lip curls in.  I pull her chin down.  Her tongue does not stick out between the nipple and her mouth like I remember my 2nd baby doing (just a little, enough to see a drop of milk?)

By 2 months old, my first child was being fed exclusively milk in a bottle (no formula).  My supply was great and I was lucky enough to be able to pump more than he could eat a day.  he started gaining weight.  by 5 months I was able to put him back to the breast with no problems. 

 

I JUST DO NOT WANT IT TO TAKE MONTHS TO BE ABLE TO BREASTFEED.  i don't want to feel this pain, i don't want to pump.  I WANT TO TEACH HER TO LATCH RIGHT, but do not have a clue how.  Latching and unlatching is excruciating, even with the pinky-finger-seal-breaking.  it also doesn't seem to help, I can't get my breast any further in her mouth (nipples are large already, now also swollen and sort of firm/hard/not as soft as they should be, to elongate and do all that.)  My friend held her head while I held her chin and pinched my breast and on the count of three put it all together and that worked, but I can't do that alone. 

 

I am in SOO much pain, it hurts when I'm not nursing.  it is killing pain when she latches.  my milk won't let down.  so she comfort sucks.  and then ffinally it does let down and she wants to nurse for an hour.  I keep waking her up, i try to switch her sides but i'll be honest, i don't do it much because it hurts so bad. 

 

i have thrush and so does she, I'm broke and waiting on a package from a friend with GSE and gentian violet from another friend.  i wash everything (towels, bras, kids clothes, diapers etc) in hot with vinegar, dry on hot.  i eat garlic daily.  i take refrigerated probiotics, 14 million count, 4 or 5 times a day, and sprinkle some in her mouth each time. i  take fish oil for the vasospasm (minor help i know).  I use a rice sock when i can.  i use breast compression to keep the milk flowing.  i rinse and pat my nipples dry.  i have cracks so i try to go braless as much as possible. 

 

any advice would be so appreciated.

however.

NO pacifiers, NO pumps, NO weaning, NO supplements, NO SNS or nipple shields...  I know I probably make people throw their hands in the air and say i'm too difficult but there has to be a way to fix this.  i am determined and hard headed and f***ing pissed off but it hurts and I want to fix it RIGHT i dont' want it to be 'good enough' and end up pumping for months on end like i did with my first son.

 

 

thanks for reading all this if you did.  i'm so pissed off about this, i am on the verge of feeling like a failure.

by on Sep. 28, 2010 at 2:55 PM
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Replies (1-10):
LKRA
by on Sep. 28, 2010 at 3:10 PM

Dude.

CALL someone. Call LLL NOW. Get someone over to your house NOW.

Where do you live? I'll come over. lol

mollycat03
by on Sep. 28, 2010 at 3:17 PM
There is a nipple flick trick that someone on here told me about. I'll try to find the link for you. sounds odd, but it really helps you get a deeper latch.
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kwaverysmom
by on Sep. 28, 2010 at 3:20 PM

Hugs. Hang in there mama.

Have you checked out the deep latch technique? Maybe that will help you out. 

mollycat03
by on Sep. 28, 2010 at 3:21 PM
http://www.drmomma.org/2010/08/breastfeeding-latch-trick.html

Did it show up? How this helps.
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IloveNix
by on Sep. 28, 2010 at 3:26 PM

I won't give any advice, because I would just be guessing and that isn't helpful!

I will however tell you that, you can do this! It will all work out in the end! Keep your head up!

Someone will have the answer, I just know it!

gdiamante
by Gina on Sep. 28, 2010 at 3:27 PM


Quoting SillyJessi:

1.)  right after birth, seemed uninterested in nursing.

That can happen.

2.) eventually latched on, but seemed kind of shallow and didn't want to NURSE but just suck and sleep.
3.) took advantage of let-down but tapered off interest shortly after.
4.) infrequent BMs, lots of pees, lots of sleep.

Any jaundice in play here? Because that can cause the sleepiness.

5.) finally, got sore nipples around 3 weeks.  Over 24 hours it got toe-curling.  white patches the next day. THRUSH

Ooh, ouch. You've read up on the remedies over on kellymom?

6.) within a few days, i had peeling, cracking nipples.

7.) VASOSPASM.  Blanching, Reynaud's phenomenon, compression lines, all the signs of a shallow latch causing my nipples damage and trauma and so much pain that the blood retreats leaving my nipples feeling like they're in vice grips made of frozen coldness.

Oooh ooh. This is where my knowledge is a bit spotty but I know we have members here who have actual experience with vasospasms.

CRYING, painful latching on.  I latch and unlatch. 

That's exactly the right thing to do. Over and over till you go insane from it.

She just wants to suck the nipple.  Her top lip curls in.  I pull her chin down.  Her tongue does not stick out between the nipple and her mouth like I remember my 2nd baby doing (just a little, enough to see a drop of milk?)

By 2 months old, my first child was being fed exclusively milk in a bottle (no formula).  My supply was great and I was lucky enough to be able to pump more than he could eat a day.  he started gaining weight.  by 5 months I was able to put him back to the breast with no problems. 

 

I JUST DO NOT WANT IT TO TAKE MONTHS TO BE ABLE TO BREASTFEED.  i don't want to feel this pain, i don't want to pump.  I WANT TO TEACH HER TO LATCH RIGHT, but do not have a clue how.  Latching and unlatching is excruciating, even with the pinky-finger-seal-breaking.

Breastmilk on the nipples will help.

  it also doesn't seem to help, I can't get my breast any further in her mouth (nipples are large already, now also swollen and sort of firm/hard/not as soft as they should be, to elongate and do all that.) 

Cold compresses can bring the swelling down. A Latch Assist will help draw them out more. Breast SHELLS worn when not nursing will also help.

My friend held her head while I held her chin and pinched my breast and on the count of three put it all together and that worked, but I can't do that alone. 

And you won't have to. Although I maintain that someone up there goofed by not issuing extra hands to moms.

I am in SOO much pain, it hurts when I'm not nursing.  it is killing pain when she latches. 

That's the thrush.

my milk won't let down. 

That is your stress. As hard as it is, you've got to relax a bit. Allow yourself a bit of slack. It will take the time it takes; stop thinking about clocks and calendars and any artificial way of marking time and just Be In The Now. There is no time but Now.

so she comfort sucks.  and then ffinally it does let down and she wants to nurse for an hour. 

And without the pain factor that would be DANDY. Remember to be In The Now.

I keep waking her up, i try to switch her sides but i'll be honest, i don't do it much because it hurts so bad. 

That's OK.

i have thrush and so does she, I'm broke and waiting on a package from a friend with GSE and gentian violet from another friend.  i wash everything (towels, bras, kids clothes, diapers etc) in hot with vinegar, dry on hot.  i eat garlic daily.  i take refrigerated probiotics, 14 million count, 4 or 5 times a day, and sprinkle some in her mouth each time. i  take fish oil for the vasospasm (minor help i know).  I use a rice sock when i can.  i use breast compression to keep the milk flowing.  i rinse and pat my nipples dry.  i have cracks so i try to go braless as much as possible. 

OK. You're doing all the right things...except let the nipples air dry. Don't touch 'em. Put breastmilk on 'em.

any advice would be so appreciated.

however.

NO pacifiers, NO pumps, NO weaning, NO supplements, NO SNS or nipple shields... 

You don't need a one of those things. Not ONE.

I know I probably make people throw their hands in the air and say i'm too difficult but there has to be a way to fix this.

 I DO suggest the shells and the Latch Assist. Those two items WILL fix the problem.

i am determined and hard headed and f***ing pissed off but it hurts and I want to fix it RIGHT i dont' want it to be 'good enough' and end up pumping for months on end like i did with my first son.

thanks for reading all this if you did.  i'm so pissed off about this, i am on the verge of feeling like a failure.

Ah, now I know why my name is in the title. You neede dme to remind you of something, didn't you?

WE DO NOT ALLOW THE WORD FAILURE HERE!

You're in a rough patch. That's NORMAL. Rough patches don't last forever.

We really need to get the thrush fixed... that is Job One.


SillyJessi
by on Sep. 28, 2010 at 3:29 PM

 

Quoting mollycat03:

http://www.drmomma.org/2010/08/breastfeeding-latch-trick.html

Did it show up? How this helps.

 I am so going to try this.  "the whole nipple explodes into the baby's mouth" = sounds like what needs to happen.  LOL thank you.  I will try this on her when she nurses next.  and let you know how it works.

TheMillerFamily
by on Sep. 28, 2010 at 3:37 PM
Sounds like your engorged. Try pumping a little before you feed, my daughter could only latch on to the nipple at first also, it hurt so bad to nurse that my toes would curl and I would hold my breath and cringe. This happened for the first 2 months then my milk regulated and now its great, sorry your going through this
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SillyJessi
by on Sep. 28, 2010 at 3:39 PM

 gdiamante - thanks so much...  however cold is 'contraindicated' by the vasospasm.  so no soothies, no cold compress, no air conditioning, no topless, no air drying milk on the nipples.  any sort of cool breeze = nipple clamps made of ice.  AOUW!

I'm getting Gentian Violet and GSE in the mail from a friend in a few days.  and I will get money in a week.  untill then I just have to sufffer the thrush.  and it sucks.

 

I'm going to look up latch assist.

SillyJessi
by on Sep. 28, 2010 at 3:53 PM

 

Quoting TheMillerFamily:

Sounds like your engorged. Try pumping a little before you feed, my daughter could only latch on to the nipple at first also, it hurt so bad to nurse that my toes would curl and I would hold my breath and cringe. This happened for the first 2 months then my milk regulated and now its great, sorry your going through this

 actually i'm not engorged, but my nipples themselves are swollen from all the cracks/thrush/reynauds.  I use warm rice socks to help with the pain from the blanching, which encourages blood flow and in turn lets the nipples soften and relax, but it doesn't help with the swelling (cold on the other hand makes them harder, shrink inside and turn white and VERY painful, she can't latch onto them and if she does the pain is so bad the milk wont flow so we have to wait until they pink back up, which could take 15 min to half an hour)

But that toe curling, leg shaking, want to bite your own fist  feeling, yeah i definitely have that.  lol.  I hope it goes away soon.  thank you :)

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