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After 3 months, I think I give up. Edit *update!*

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I have been is such bad pain since I had my baby.
My nipples hurt so fucking bad.
There are NO lactation consultants within an hour and a half from where I live.
I have had thrush for about 2 months straight... With 2 rounds of diflucan, 1 tube of triple nipple cream, gentian violet, I use cocnut oil often, and at this point I am not even sure if it's thrush anymore.

Maybe it's just a bad latch.
But I dont know how to fix it.
I have tried re-latching over and over and over.
And I feel like my nipples have been rubbed with wet sandpaper.
Around the edges of my nipples they are like a purple color and sometimes the middle of them
Are white and the whole nipple is red!
This fucking sucks.

I have great output with my pump. I think I'm just gonna stick to it and not try to breastfeed anymore.

Cause I am sick and tired of burning pain in my nipples. Cause the more I nurse the worse it gets. It makes me resent my baby because of the pain I am in from it sometimes (I feel so f-ed up for saying that) :(

Are any if you ladies miracle workers? Any advice?



1.What sounds does baby make when latching on?a clicking noise

2. What type of mouth movement?usually a tugging. but sometimes like shes clamping down

3. Any white spots in her mouth?No

4. Are you on probiotics? I take Acidopholis, I've been told thats basically worthless though

5. Was baby treated for thrush?No.

6. Have I made any dietary modifications?Some, I cut all the sugar out of my diet.. but when it didnt help and I started getting major sugar cravings.. I started eating sugars again..

7. Do I was my breasts with soap?Only when the suds from my shampoo or body wash drip down onto them.. but even then I just rinse it off and not wash them.

8. Have I been on antibiotics? Yes, I was treated for mastitis about 3 weeks into breastfeeding.

9. Do I use breast pads?Normally no. I use them at night occasionally, but most of the time no. And I use disposable.

10. Do I let them air dry, and keep them as dry as possible during the day?Every time

11. Is the baby getting any bottles or pacifiers?Yes

12. Has there been any period of time when nipples have been pain free?Yes, but only when I am only pumping

13. When is the pain worst?In the middle/end of the feed and inbetween. They get really sore

14. Do I do anything to nipples before or after I nurse?After I nurse I just let them air dry. Before pumping I use coconut oil to keep them from rubbing.Now, I am using triple nipple cream that my Doctor perscribed me

15. Does she have any unusual poops? Gassiness? Diaper Rashes? Frothy Poop?She had some mean diaper rash about a month ago that her doctor perscribed her medicine for. Sometimes when she nurses she has greenish poops. Gassiness, not really, What does frothy poop mean?

16. What does the nipple look like after I take it out of babys mouth? Sometimes it looks like a new tube of lipstick, but most of the time now it looks like normal, just extended. But it will usually have a white line across it  like it has been creased or something.

17. Does the whiteness get worse if exposed to air or cold?No not normally, they do get really hard and sometimes hurt if they get cold though

18.  &19 I will have to check when she is not sleeping

So! It was thrush!
We went to a lc, she said no tounge tie and she has a good latch..
But when she saw my nipples se said that was most definitely thrush!

To treat we used gentian violet, I am on a 21 day course of diflucan, coconut oil, taking grapefruit seed extract and probiotics. Boiling everything! And cut carbs & sugar out of my diet!

Started that last friday!

So far have had 3 days of pain free nursing!
Yay yay yay!!!
by on Jun. 29, 2012 at 3:06 AM
Replies (51-60):
by on Jun. 30, 2012 at 4:19 PM

Hey I answered all of them up top :)

Quoting Gruntlings:

I'm about to ask you a bunch of questions that you've probably already answered. I apologize in advance.

First. You're AMAZING for having stuck this out for three months with the pain that you describe. I admire you tremendously.

Now. The questions.

1- What sounds does the baby make when you latch him on? Clicking? Slurping? Sucking of air? Swallowing?

2- What type of mouth movement does he make? Is it chompy like he's chewing? Or is it nibbly/tugging?

3- Does baby have any white spots in his mouth?

4- Are you on probiotics?

5- Was baby treated for thrush as well?

6- Have you made any dietary modifications?

7- Do you wash your breasts with soap?

8- Have you been on antibiotics at all?

9- Do you use breast pads? Disposable? Or reusable?

10- Do you allow your breasts to air dry after feeds and do you keep them as dry as possible during the day?

11- Is baby getting any bottles or pacifiers?

12- Has there been any period of time when your nipples have been pain free?

13- When is the pain worst? At the beginning of a feed, middle of a feed, when you feel letdown, or after a feed/between feeds?

14- Do you do anything to your nipples before nursing or after nursing?

15- Does baby have any unusual poops or gassiness? Diaper rashes? Frothy poop? 

16- When you remove your nipple from baby's mouth does it have a crease? is it pointed? is it flattened? is it white? Does it have blisters anywhere? Or does it just look normal/the same as it did before nursing?

17- Does the whiteness get worse if your nipples are exposed to air or cold?

18- If you pull your baby's upper lip back does he have a tight band of skin between his lip and gumline? If you pull the lip all the way back does that band of skin turn white or does it stay pink?

19- Sweep your finger under your baby's tongue. Do you feel a bump or a "fence" at the back of the tongue? Does baby's tongue ever have an indentation at the tip that resembles the top of a heart?

by on Jun. 30, 2012 at 4:25 PM
Sounds like tongue tie to me. You pretty much have all the symptoms (clicking, pain mid/late in feeding, how your nipple looks after nursing).

Any docs on this list near you?
by on Jun. 30, 2012 at 4:28 PM
Tongue tie! Hurting while nursing, not hurting while pumping, chomping, sandpaper sensation, and most of all that crease/white line... that's all a latch problem and most likely tongue tie. That crease is exactly how mine looked before my son had his tongue clipped.
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by Tiffany on Jun. 30, 2012 at 4:42 PM

Like the others have said, it sounds like a tongue tie - clipping it is quick and easy, and you should see a vast and immediate improvement!

by Bronze Member on Jun. 30, 2012 at 8:46 PM

Quoting heathercm26:

Your nipple should not be that bad. It is not supposed to hurt. Your naby has a tongue tie or lip tie for sure.

Or have to treat the babys mouth and your nipple at the same time. You are just passing it back and forth other wise

I would agree

"Children are a gift from God."


by on Jun. 30, 2012 at 9:16 PM

More info for you: 

Tight Frenulum Can Cause Painful Breastfeeding and Poor Weight Gain 

Nov 15, 2008 Christy Swift 

Painful Nursing Can Indicate Tongue-tie - Mark Swift

Poor latch, sore nipples, and slow infant growth may be caused by tongue-tie (ankyloglossia). Posterior tongue-tie can be especially difficult to diagnose. During the decades where bottle-feeding was the norm, medical professionals fell away from diagnosing and treating tongue-tie, a common and easily-remedied breastfeeding problem. As a result, today’s breastfeeding moms may have trouble finding a doctor who can recognize and treat the problem. However, left untreated, tongue-tie can not only destroy the breastfeeding relationship, but may cause additional health problems as the baby grows.

What is Tongue-tie?

Tongue tie is a congenital malformation where the membrane attaching the tongue to the bottom of the mouth (the frenulum) is too tight and restricts proper movement of the tongue. The abnormally tight frenulum does not allow the baby’s tongue to move properly during breastfeeding, and can cause pain and nipple damage. If the baby is not able to extract enough milk, he may go hungry and be at risk for poor weight gain and dehydration.

Types of Tongue-tie

  • Classic Tongue-tie. This is diagnosed when the frenulum is attached to the tip of the tongue or 2-4mm behind it. Many midwives, doctors and lactation consultants can easily spot this type of frenulum restriction. It may create a heart shape or notch in the tip of the tongue as the baby tries to lift or extend it. The tongue may also appear to roll forward.
  • Posterior Tongue-tie. With posterior tongue-tie, the frenulum is tightly attached between the mid-tongue and the middle of the floor of the mouth or is attached at the base of the tongue and is very thick, shiny and inelastic. This type of restriction is more difficult to spot as the tip of the tongue does lift, but not as much as it should.

How Does Tongue-tie Affect Breastfeeding?

Restriction of the tongue makes breastfeeding painful and can result in the baby not getting enough to eat. In their new book, The Breastfeeding Mother’s Guide to Making More Milk [McGraw-Hill, 2008], International Board-Certified Lactation Consultants Diana West and Lisa Marasco explain why:

“A baby's ability to draw milk from the breast depends on his ability to move his tongue freely. In order to grasp an adequate amount of breast for latching deeply, his tongue must comfortably extend past his lower lip. To stabilize the breast, the sides of the tongue need to be able cup it. Finally, the tip of the tongue needs to be able to lift higher than halfway when the mouth is open, while the back of the tongue needs to lift and then drop to create the vacuum that pulls out milk.” [permission granted by Diana West, 2008]

If the baby is not successfully emptying the breast and triggering the supply-and-demand function that sustains breastfeeding, the mother’s milk supply can suffer as well. Low milk supply combined with latch problems associated with tongue-tie can cause a mother to lose confidence in her ability to breastfeed and to ultimately quit.

Symptoms of Tongue-tie

How can a struggling breastfeeding mother know if her baby is tongue-tied? In their book, West and Marasco list a number of clues, including:

Read on 

  • latch trouble
  • sucking blisters on the lips
  • chronic sore nipples
  • "clicking" or "popping" sounds during breastfeeding
  • a persistently abraded nipple
  • flattened nipple when baby unlatches
  • baby tires at breast, then awakens soon, hungry again
  • consistent, long, “marathon” feedings
  • tongue tremor

Treatment for Tongue-tie

If a breastfeeding mom thinks her baby might have tongue-tie, she should see a medical professional as soon as possible to have it diagnosed. Treatment for tongue-tie is usually a simple snipping of the frenulum, called frenotomy. Because the frenulum tissue has few nerve endings and blood vessels, the procedure does not usually cause the baby much pain or bleeding. Nursing right after the procedure is often enough to comfort a baby after frenotomy.

How to Diagnose Tongue-tie

Unfortunately, if a baby has posterior tongue-tie, even a medical professional may not be able to properly diagnose it. West and Marasco suggest, “In discussing the possibility of tongue-tie with your baby's doctor, it may be helpful to refer him or her to Supporting Sucking Skills in Breastfeeding Infants by Catherine Watson Genna, BS, IBCLC [Jones & Bartlett Publishers, 2007], for detailed tongue-tie diagnostic criteria and treatment information.”

In their book, West and Marasco also describe the Murphy Maneuver, which involves running a finger along the underside of the baby’s tongue to assess possible frenulum restriction. West also provides a list of care providers familiar with tongue-tie on her website.

Other Tongue-tie Complications

Even if a mother is bottle-feeding, she should still have her child’s tongue-tie treated. Unclipped tongue-tie can lead to several health problems in childhood and adulthood such as reflux, speech impediments, snoring, sleep apnea, dental problems and indigestion. While tongue-tied babies can often bottle-feed without issue, some will still be unable to feed effectively without a frenotomy.

Mothers who are having trouble breastfeeding should consult a midwife or lactation consultant about the possibility of tongue-tie. Treatment is usually quick and relatively painless, and catching the problem early can save the breastfeeding couple days, weeks or even months of painful nursing, poor weight gain, unhappiness, and eventually low milk supply and early weaning.

Read more at Suite101: Diagnosing Tongue-Tie in a Breastfed Baby: Tight Frenulum Can Cause Painful Breastfeeding and Poor Weight Gain

by on Jun. 30, 2012 at 9:16 PM

Tongue Tie Help    Latch Help

Is My Baby Tongue-tied?

Now that more mothers are breastfeeding, tongue-tie (ankyloglossia) is on the forefront of medical research again. Some tongue-tied babies breastfeed without difficulty, others cause their mother pain, don't get enough milk, or have difficulty swallowing properly and are very unhappy during and after feeding.

If you are concerned that your baby may be tongue-tied, the following may help you decide if you need more help. An IBCLC (International Board Certified Lactation Consultant) can help with breastfeeding, and many different dentists and doctors can help if your baby needs treatment for tongue-tie. See for a list of doctors and dentists who are particularly good at diagnosing and treating tongue-tie.

The first thing to assess is whether your baby can stick out his or her tongue. If you touch your baby's lips, he will probably open his mouth. You can then touch the front of his lower gum with your fingertip. This makes him stick the tongue out. We want to see the tongue come out flat over the lip, without dipping down or pointing down. If your baby can only stick his tongue out when his mouth is closed, that can indicate a posterior (further back) tongue-tie.

Next, we want to see if your baby can lift her tongue way up to the roof of the mouth. All the way up is perfect, half way is enough for most babies to be able to breastfeed. Again, her mouth should be wide open. Most tongue-tied babies can only lift their tongues when their mouths are mostly closed.

Obvious and Sneakier Tongue-ties:

This baby (pic 3) has an obvious tongue-tie. You can see the membrane right at the front of the tongue, and you can see how it makes it hard for him to lift his tongue up.

The baby in pic 4 is also tongue-tied. If you run your finger along the outside of a baby's lower gum, her tongue will try to follow. If the tongue twists like this, it's a sign of tongue-tie.

The baby in pic 5 has a sneaky (posterior) tongue-tie. You can see that it is difficult to get a finger under the tongue. If you press on the front of the little membrane under the tongue (the frenulum), a tied tongue will pull down in the center like this. This shows that the frenulum is tight and does not allow the tongue to move well. This diagnostic trick is called the Murphy Maneuver after Dr. Jim Murphy of California.

Pic 6 shows a very sneaky tongue-tie - a posterior or submucosal one. The frenulum (membrane holding the tongue down) is hiding behind the floor of the mouth (the oral mucosa). You can see that the tongue doesn't lift very well, and that the floor of the mouth is tented out a little.

Notice how when the baby in pic 6 tries to lift her tongue (pic 7), nothing at all is visible except the limited ability to lift the tongue up.

Again, some babies with posterior or submucosal tongue-tie can breastfeed, others have a lot of difficulty. Moms breast and nipple shape and milk supply can make things easier or more difficult for the baby.

The best way to diagnose a posterior tongue-tie is to lift the tongue with a grooved director. Doctors who treat tongue-tie usually have one.

The final thing to do is watch your baby cry. If only the edges of the tongue curl up like in tt pic 9, that's a sure sign that the frenulum is tight.

Now that you have an idea whether your baby has normal tongue movement ability or not, you can decide what kind of help may be most useful.

A guide to latching your baby

Snuggle your baby against your body so he is tummy to tummy (front to front) and lean back comfortably. Most mothers like to hold the baby with the same side arm as they are nursing from, or with both hands. The more you lean back, the more gravity helps hold baby, and the less strain on your arms.

Babies find the breast by feel and smell. Cuddle your baby in a comfortable position so your nipple touches that cute notch right above her upper lip, and her chin snuggles against your breast.

She will then open her mouth wide.

It will look like she won't be able to get her upper lip past the nipple.

She'll tilt her head back a little bit and lunge in for a good mouthful. If her nose is blocked, snuggle her bottom close to your body and slide her a little toward your other breast.

If this doesn't work for you, try leaning even farther back, so your nipple points up in the air. Then turn your baby so he is laying on your chest, with his face aligned to the breast the same way as in the latch photos above.

If you need to shape your breast a little to define a better mouthful, you can do this with one fingers above or below the nipple, or a finger above and a finger below.

If these things don't work, express milk very frequently (at least 8 times a day) to feed your baby, and get in-person help!

by on Jul. 2, 2012 at 7:07 AM
When did baby start getting bottles/pacifiers?

It is almost definitely either a tongue tie or nipple confusion.

If you put your pinky finger into baby's mouth with the pad of it on the roof of his mouth, does he suck normally or does he chew? Does his tongue extend at all?Do you feel his tongue move? Is it under or on top of your nipple or is it bunched back in his mouth?
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by Group Admin -Tabitha on Jul. 2, 2012 at 8:54 AM

Everything I am reading lead to tongue need to have babies tongue evaluated ASAP, this is what is causing SO much pain

by on Jul. 2, 2012 at 9:00 AM
I'm going to agree with the others that it sounds like a tongue tie. Are you near Dayton Ohio?
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