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Breastfeeding Moms Breastfeeding Moms

I think I'm ready to quit... :/

Ds is 6 months. Barely. I finally went to the dr and got 10 days worth of meds to kill thrush, after battling it for months. Its far far worse on one side, on that side I cant squeeze anything out by hand 3 hours after ds ate. The pain is better but its not gone yet. In the past when I took fenugreek it made me very very ill as did mothers milk tea.it works but it makes me throw up and get very tired/dizzy. I feel like a bad mom but I really dont think I can handle the fight much longer :( /vent
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by on Oct. 3, 2012 at 1:26 PM
Replies (31-40):
aehanrahan
by Group Mod - Amy on Oct. 4, 2012 at 2:45 AM
And everything that touches your breasts!

Quoting MonicaV1982:

BTW, have you sanitized EVERYTHING that touches your baby's mouth?


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MonicaV1982
by on Oct. 4, 2012 at 2:59 AM

THIS! Wash ALL clothes, bedding, etc . on the hottest cycle possible. Sanitize stuffed animals. Literally sanitize your entire house!


Quoting aehanrahan:

And everything that touches your breasts!

Quoting MonicaV1982:

BTW, have you sanitized EVERYTHING that touches your baby's mouth?



MamiSI
by on Oct. 4, 2012 at 7:22 AM
hi, I skimmed through the thread. What youre going through sounds so very frustrating. Good for you for fighting. Youre a great mom. About your supply, it can be increased so don't worry about it. When you can tolerate pumping, it might be in your interest to rent a hospital grade electric pump. It might Be a good idea to nurse on the side with the lower supply first then put the baby to the other breast and simultaneously pump the other side. I have experienced a supply issue on one side like this before. I've also counseled moms in this area before and this seems to work. The side without the problem usually compensates for the other side, but only if your not supplementing. I don't remember reading if your baby is eating solids yet.
Mom24munchkins
by Member on Oct. 4, 2012 at 7:44 AM
Really? I havent looked into that at all. My midwife (and the obgyn she spoke with) were shocked that I was still having issues. Ds doesnt use a paci, I clean myself with a baking soda mix as well as his mouth after each feeding and his hand (hes a finger sucker lol). I have had 4 pregnancies and have been diagnosed with pre eclampsia all 4 times. After baby 3 I was diagnosed with lupos as well as hypothyroidism. My midwife said they still felt like there was something we werent aware of. I tried to nurse him a bit ago on the super sore side and it hurts as bad as it did before I started the diflucan. :/


Quoting aehanrahan:

What is his weight history? Birth, lowest, and any others. Have they all been taken on the same scale? Weights taken on different scales are to be ignored. Was he sick? Being sick can cause loss.

I still stand by what I said about your supply and giving bottles.

Have you looked into Renaud's syndrome? It can be mistaken for thrush.

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Mom24munchkins
by Member on Oct. 4, 2012 at 7:47 AM
Really? I havent looked into that at all. My midwife (and the obgyn she spoke with) were shocked that I was still having issues. Ds doesnt use a paci, I clean myself with a baking soda mix as well as his mouth after each feeding and his hand (hes a finger sucker lol). I have had 4 pregnancies and have been diagnosed with pre eclampsia all 4 times. After baby 3 I was diagnosed with lupos as well as hypothyroidism. My midwife said they still felt like there was something we werent aware of. I tried to nurse him a bit ago on the super sore side and it hurts as bad as it did before I started the diflucan. :/ he gained weight amazingly to start with. I'd have to pull out my notebook for complete records but birth weight was 6 ilbs (hospital scale) lowest was 5'10. He was over 12 pounds at 4 months(my scale). He was 13'3 yesterday. What concerns be is the slow down, and he lost weight. 3 weeks ago he was 13 pounds 11 ounces on my scale. And he gained 2 to 4 ounces when I did a weigh-feed-weigh.


Quoting aehanrahan:

What is his weight history? Birth, lowest, and any others. Have they all been taken on the same scale? Weights taken on different scales are to be ignored. Was he sick? Being sick can cause loss.

I still stand by what I said about your supply and giving bottles.

Have you looked into Renaud's syndrome? It can be mistaken for thrush.

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Mom24munchkins
by Member on Oct. 4, 2012 at 8:19 AM
Sorry to quote you twice...but why has no one ever mentioned this before?! I have had 3 (semi :/) successful nursing relationships and I had MAJOR thrush issues in every single one. This one is worse. First baby my supply was low and he was losing weight as four months so I gave up, I was young and tired and dealing with 2 under 2 and he was super hungry and had a crazy good sucker. Baby 2 wasnt as constantly hungry. He bf till 11 months but we fought "thrush" for months. He had it slightly one time. Otherwise it was just on the nipples. This time I have never ever seen a spot in ds's mouth. I (and my midwife) made the assumption it was thrush based on symptoms. Dh has made fun of me because I end up with my hands in my bra non stop because it makes the throbbing pain stop...this makes sense. But what the heck can I actually do about it?


Quoting aehanrahan:

What is his weight history? Birth, lowest, and any others. Have they all been taken on the same scale? Weights taken on different scales are to be ignored. Was he sick? Being sick can cause loss.

I still stand by what I said about your supply and giving bottles.

Have you looked into Renaud's syndrome? It can be mistaken for thrush.

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Mom24munchkins
by Member on Oct. 4, 2012 at 11:19 AM
I got a drs appointment. Its no better today so she wanted to see me. Blah.
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aehanrahan
by Group Mod - Amy on Oct. 4, 2012 at 11:27 AM
None of the weights on your scale count. What weights are the ones from the doctor's office and were they all on the same scale there? Was the loss a difference from your scale and the one at the doctor? Did you have IV fluids and/or a C-section? His gain is amazing! He's gained plenty in 6 months.
I don't know much about Renaud's except that it can be mistaken as thrush.
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gdiamante
by Group Mod - Gina on Oct. 4, 2012 at 11:57 AM

Nipple blanching and vasospasm

JULY 27, 2011. Posted in: BF CONCERNS: MOTHER

By Kelly Bonyata, BS, IBCLC

Nipple blanching (turning white) after a feeding occurs when the blood flow to the nipple is limited or cut off. Blanching is most often related to latch problems. Nipple blanching is often, but not always, associated with pain. Because women may describe shooting, burning breast/nipple pain, this can be mistakenly diagnosed as thrush. If the normal color returns after your baby has finished a feeding and there is no pain, then the blanching is not a problem.

Compression blanching | Vasospasm | Treatment options | Resources

Blanching due to compression

The most common reason for nipple blanching is that that baby is compressing the nipple while nursing. This can be due to:

When blanching is due to baby’s compression of the nipple, the nipple is white and often misformed (flattened, creased, pointed, etc.) immediately upon coming out of baby’s mouth. There may be a white stripe across the nipple directly after nursing. Pain may not start until a few seconds to a few minutes after nursing, as the circulation returns to the nipple. If you are experiencing pain with the blanching, then finding and remedying the underlying cause will also eliminate the blanching.

Blanching due to vasospasm

Vasospasm, which is more severe, is a sudden constriction/narrowing of a blood vessel (in the nipple, in this case) that is extremely painful. It might occur a short time after nursing or in between nursings. Vasospasm can have various causes:

Vasospasm can be a secondary response to pain or nipple trauma (damaged nipples orthrush). In this case, the nipple(s) turns white shortly after nursing (rather than coming out of baby’s mouth white and misformed). Mom might notice a white circle on the face of the nipple a few seconds to a few minutes after breastfeeding. Cold often triggers the vasospasm and/or makes it worse. Unlike blanching due to compression, latch and positioning may be fine if the source of any nipple damage has already been fixed. Healing the nipple trauma or other source of pain should eliminate the vasospasms, although they may persist for a short time after the nipple has healed (previously damaged tissue can remain sensitive for a time).

Raynaud’s of the nipple

Vasospasm can also be caused by Raynaud’s Phenomenon (more info here), which causes sudden vasospasms in the extremities. When nipple vasospasm is caused by Raynaud’s Phenomenon (Raynaud’s of the nipple), the nipple turns white, then there is usually a noticeable triphasic color change – from white to blue to red – as blood flow returns. The color change may also be biphasic – from white to blue.

Vasospasm due to Raynaud’s is more likely to occur on both sides (rather than just one nipple), lasts for relatively long periods of time (rather than for a few seconds or a few minutes), and can occur during pregnancy and/or at times unrelated to feeding. Vasospasms may also occur in fingers or toes. Cold typically triggers the vasospasm and/or makes it worse. Nipple trauma (and other causes of compression blanching or vasospasm) can exacerbate the problem. Raynaud’s phenomenon may recur with subsequent pregnancies/breastfeeding, so be prepared to seek treatment quickly if you have experienced this in the past.

Per Anderson et al, “Because the breast pain associated with Raynaud’s phenomenon is so severe and throbbing, it is often mistaken for Candida albicans [yeast] infection. It is not unusual for mothers who have Raynaud’s phenomenon of the nipple to be treated inappropriately and often repeatedly for C albicans infections with topical or systemic antifungal agents.”

Keep in mind that Raynaud’s is not caused by breastfeeding (anyone might have it) — it simply has the potential to affect breastfeeding. For example, any person might have inverted nipples, which might or might not affect a mother’s breastfeeding relationship (as this can make latching or sore nipples more of a challenge in the beginning). Raynaud’s works the same way – anyonemight have it coming into breastfeeding, and it might (or might not) affect the breastfeeding relationship if the vasospasms are triggered by bad latch, a sudden temperature change as baby unlatches, etc.

Some maternal medications have been associated with vasospasm, including oral contraceptives. Fibromyalgia, rheumatologic diseases (eg, systemic lupus erythematosus or rheumatoid arthritis), endocrine diseases (eg, hypothyroidism or carcinoid), and prior breast surgery have also been associated with Raynaud’s phenomenon. Some sources indicate that the antifungal medication fluconazole may be associated with vasospasm, although the manufacturer does not report this as a known complication of fluconazole use. Other sources feel that vasospasms experienced by mothers taking fluconazole are a result of nipple pain/trauma due to thrush (and not due to the medication used to treat the thrush).

Treatment options for vasospasm

  • Avoid cold. Apply dry heat to the breast when needed (this relaxes the “cramping” blood vessels). Some mothers benefit from keeping the entire body warm (warm clothing, warm room, wrap up in a blanket, etc.)
  • Cover the nipple as soon as possible after baby comes off the breast. Some moms say that it is helpful use a wool breast pad or a soft cloth diaper.
  • Apply dry heat immediately after breastfeeding. A rice sock can be useful as a source of dry heat: Fill a sock or a cloth bag with uncooked rice and microwave 45 seconds (or until desired warmth is achieved); hold the rice sock against the nipple (over the cloth or mom’s shirt) until blood flow resumes.
  • Avoid caffeine, nicotine and other vasoconstrictive drugs, as they can precipitate symptoms.
  • Ibuprofen.
  • Dietary supplementation with calcium/magnesium.
  • Dietary supplementation with vitamin B6.
  • Low dose oral nifedipine.

See links below for additional details.

 

Additional information and references

Nipple pain – links 

Nipple compression stripe by Kathy Kuhn, IBCLC

Baby clamps down during breastfeeding by Debbie Donovan, IBCLC

Clampdown Bite Reflex by Mary Jozwiak, from Leaven, Vol. 30 No. 4, July-August 1994, pp. 53-4.

Nipple Vasospasm -A Manifestation Of Raynaud’s Phenomenon and a Preventable Cause of Breastfeeding Failure by Laureen Lawlor-Smith BMBS IBCLC and Carolyn Lawlor-Smith BMBS IBCLC FRACGP

Vasospasm and Raynaud’s Phenomenon by Jack Newman, MD

Nipple blanching: “My nipples turn white” by Debbi Donovan, IBCLC

Nipple vasospasm by Kathy Kuhn, IBCLC

Does nipple vasospasm recur? by Debbie Donovan, IBCLC

Raynaud’s Syndrome and Breastfeeding by Cher Sealy, RN, BSN, IBCLC, LLLL

Seeking Relief by Debbie Granick, from New Beginnings, Vol. 16 No. 3,
July-August 1999, p. 120.

References

Anderson JE, Held N, Wright K. Raynaud’s Phenomenon of the Nipple: A Treatable Cause of Painful Breastfeeding. Pediatrics. 2004 Apr;113(4):e360-4.

Garrison CP. Nipple vasospasms, Raynaud’s syndrome, and nifedipine (case report). J Hum Lact. 2002 Nov;18(4):382-5.

Riordan J and Auerbach K. Breastfeeding and Human Lactation, 2nd ed. Boston and London: Jones and Bartlett 1999, p. 492-493.

Lawlor-Smith L, Lawlor-Smith C. Raynaud’s phenomenon of the nipple: a preventable cause of breastfeeding failure? Med J Aust. 1997 Apr 21;166(8):448.

Lawlor-Smith L, Lawlor-Smith C. Vasospasm of the nipple – a manifestation of Raynaud’s phenomenon: case reportsBMJ. 1997 Mar 1;314(7081):644-5.

Snyder JB. [letter]. J Hum Lact. 1994 Sept;10(3):153.

Escott R. Vasospasm of the nipple: another case [letter]. J Hum Lact. 1994 Mar;10(1):6.

Coates MM. Nipple pain related to vasospasm in the nipple? J Hum Lact. 1992 Sep;8(3):153.

An Overview of Solutions to Breastfeeding and Sucking Problems by Susan Meintz Maher, IBCLC, La Leche League 1988, p 14.

gdiamante
by Group Mod - Gina on Oct. 4, 2012 at 11:59 AM
1 mom liked this


Quoting Mom24munchkins:

 I'd have to pull out my notebook for complete records but birth weight was 6 ilbs (hospital scale) lowest was 5'10. He was over 12 pounds at 4 months(my scale).
Yowza.
He was 13'3 yesterday. '
Two pounds heavier than expected!
What concerns be is the slow down, and he lost weight. 3 weeks ago he was 13 pounds 11 ounces on my scale. And he gained 2 to 4 ounces when I did a weigh-feed-weigh.
Throw your scale away. And unless you see milestone problems, NEVER put him on a scale. Scales are as dangerous as electric chairs... they execute mom's confidence. His gain is GORGEOUS! You have NOTHING to worry about on that account.
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