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Little baby so stop Bfing? *Edit* What do you think of my conclusion?? *Edit* Very Long I'm Sorry!

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My baby boy is so little I cry. For some reason he's not gaining weight. He is now at 0.02 percentile and weighs 10lbs 9 oz and is almost 6 months old. His doctor made me feel so guilty for wanting to keep bfing even though he is not gaining adequaste weight. She had me start him on solids at 3 months and he ate them well but was so constipated I had to stop. She called ECI and has diagnosed him with "Failure to Thrive". This terrifies me. He was born via c-section and I did have a time when I wasn't making enough milk so I took some fenugreek and got it back up, but yet again I feel like he is not eating for long enough and isn't always satisfied lately. I feel like a total failure. With my first son I could not bf because he was born so prematurely and I got blood clotts which cut off my milk supply but this time I was so excited about nursing and he latches great and eats great but now not long enough (maybe 10 mins in total) and I have a hard time telling if I'm full or not. I don't know what to do, I don't want to formula feed and I really want him to get as much breastmilk as possible.

ECI came yesterday and she said he is developmentally ahead of his age, but physically he's very small. I started him on solids yet again and this time it's going better, she said to add 1/4 tsp of oil to his foods to up calorie intake and said she is not having me give him formula YET to see if this will work. But I'm so riddled with guilt and worry that I am beside myself. Have any of you ever just had a small baby? Or problems bfing? I think I'm going to take more fenugreek capsules and lots of Mother's Milk tea and more water and see if it helps but if it doesn't should I just throw in the towel and start formula feeding?

I love him so much I just want him to be healthy and happy and thrive. He loves the bf cuddle time so much idk if I could bare to give it up! Any suggestions or advice? anything would be sooo helpful!

I am adding a few pictures of him, keep in mind in the one in only the diaper he had just taken in a huge breath and scrunched his chest up to his chin, hence why there is no neck lol


Edit:: He was born 6lbs 8oz came home weighing 6lbs even, at his 1 weeks weigh in he gained about 4 oz, his 1 month he was a lottle over 7 lbs, his 3 month he was 9lbs, his 4 months 9lbs 10oz, 4 1/2 months 10lbs 1 oz, and now 5 1/2 months he is 10 lbs 9oz. 

He has 8 wet diapers usually

Eats 9 times in 24 hrs, he set his own schedule since he came home so every 2-3 hrs during the day, and twice at night (once at midnight - I wake him up, and once at 6am - he wakes up, then 8am, 11am, etc...) ON DEMAND but he made up his own schedule and has been on the same once since he was a month old, he gets hungry at the same times every day and is very active and when its not time to nurse he sometimes has his binkie and sometimes doesn't.

Tried solids at 3 months, stopped after a week, started again slowly about a week ago, and it is going well. he eats about an ounce and a half a day, once at 10am and again at 7pm

He has perfect latch, never any tongue problems.

He has had numerous blood tests, all came out normal.

Pumping is EXCRUCIATING and I do not get anything from pumping, whether it be handheld or electric, I think it'e because of my large breasts and large nipples, I have tried many kinds and it is too painful and even after 30 minutes on ONE side I get maybe a few drops to 1/4 oz.

Developmentally he can almost sit on his own, he can lift himself up when on his stomach, babbles, sucks his toes, tracks very well, etc.

When it comes to his solid foods, he is doing better with them, he LOVES them and the nutritionist suggested to put oil in his foods and that alone seems to be helping with the constipation problem he had before, I use coconut oil. His bowl movements are normal.

Anything else just let me know and I will do my best to add it in. Please let me know what y'all think. Thanks!

*Edit 2*

Thank you everyone for your kind words, support, and encouragement. Most of what I see advice wise is just what I needed to hear.

After reading all your comments, I started to think more objectively. I realized that since he was a month old his stools have been spaced more apart, which I know is normal (once every 3 days) but what ISN'T normal is that it slowly became more potent and turned green instead of mustard like it should be, and got very "slimy" or "mucusy" and It has been this way for about 2 1/2 months. Looking at his weights, this happened about when his weight gain started slowing.

So I did a little reading about it and I know he isn't lactose intolerant because I tried taking dairy out of my diet and it didn't change his wieght or his stools. I know that one of you said that foremilk and hindmilk has nothing to do with weight, but in this article (http://www.llli.org/faq/foremilk.html) from the LLL they say it is. I also recall that his ECI nutricionist said the only 2 things it could be (since everything else was ruled out) is insufficient fats in my milk or problems with let down. I'm thinking ti's beginning to be both.

M conclusion is: although I don't have an oversupply, I think I have an abundance of foremilk and not enough hindmilk, whether that means I let down too early or let down too slowly, he might not be getting the fatty hindmilk (growth) and filling up on foremilk (brain and development) which makes so much sense now that I read that little article! Please let me know what y'all think. I'm so sorry this has become such a long post thanks so much for reading all the way and helping me! i love cafemom!

by on Nov. 15, 2012 at 11:11 PM
Replies (41-50):
maggiemom2000
by Ruby Member on Nov. 17, 2012 at 11:37 AM
2 moms liked this

M conclusion is: although I don't have an oversupply, I think I have an abundance of foremilk and not enough hindmilk,

This is not possible. The only reason why baby gets too much foremilk and not enough hindmilk is if there is so much milk in the breast that baby cannot drain the breast. If you don't have an oversupply, then baby cannot be getting too much foremilk.

whether that means I let down too early or let down too slowly, he might not be getting the fatty hindmilk (growth) and filling up on foremilk (brain and development) which makes so much sense now that I read that little article!

Actually ALL milk makes babies grow. Babies do not need to get hindmilk in order to grow. In fact, when mom has oversupply and baby is getting little or no hindmilk, these babies almost always have above average weight gain.

Please let me know what y'all think. 

I kindly disagree with your conclusion :-)

Let me explain some more:

from http://kellymom.com/nutrition/milk/change-milkfat/

Average calorie & fat content of human milk

The average calorie content of human milk is 22 kcal/oz. Caloric content varies widely throughout each feeding and the day, however, due to changing fat content. The amount of fat in human milk changes dramatically during each feeding and throughout the day, since fat content depends on the degree of emptyness of the breast (empty breast = high fat, full breast = low fat). The average fat content of human milk is 1.2 grams/oz.

Calorie & Fat Content of Human Milk
 AverageRange
Energy22 kcal/oz13 – 35 kcal/oz
75 kcal/100 mL45 – 119 kcal/100 mL
Fat (total lipids)1.2 g/oz0.6 – 1.5 g/oz
4.2 g/100 mL2 – 5 g/100 mL
3-5%1-10%
References: 
Hamosh 1991, p. 118; Jelliffe & Jelliffe 1978; Lawrence 1999, p. 108, 305, 738.

What affects the amount of fat and calories in a mother’s milk?

  • Mom’s diet? The research tells us that mom’s diet doesnotaffect the average amount of fat or calories in her milk. However, mom can change the types of fat in her milk by altering the types of fats that she eats (Lawrence 1999, p. 106-113, 300-305; Hamosh 1996, Hamosh 1991, p. 123-124). An increase of one fatty acid could generally be expected to occur concurrently with a decrease in another. For example, one study has shown that black mothers in South Africa who eat a traditional maize diet have less monunsaturated fatty acid in their milk than urban mothers who consumed more animal proteins and fats (van der Westhuyzen 1988).
  • The degree of emptiness of the breast is what research has shown to drive breastmilk fat content, and thus calorie content. The fuller the breast, the lower the fat content of the milk; The emptier the breast, the higher the fat content of the milk (Daly 1993). For more information see I’m confused about foremilk and hindmilk – how does this work? and How does milk production work?
    *FULL
    Breast
     = LOWER
    Fat
    Content
    &SLOWER
    Milk
    Production
    *EMPTY
    Breast
     = HIGHER
    Fat
    Content
    &FASTER
    Milk
    Production
  • Breast compression has been shown to increase fat content of milk (Stutte 1988). See Breast compression for more information.

 

The above information tells us that milk fat may be more effectively increased through ‘mechanical’means (i.e. longer & more frequent feeding, massage, breast compression, expressing foremilk before nursing) than by changing mom’s diet.

See How might I increase baby’s weight gain? for details on increasing baby’s intake at the breast. 

Does the amount of fat in mom’s milk make a difference when it comes to baby’s growth?

The research tells us that baby’s milk intake (the volume of milk – not the amount of fat in that milk) is the only thing that has been correlated with infant growth in exclusively breastfed babies. As noted earlier, average fat content of human milk is highly variable, but has not proven to be significant when calculating baby’s total energy intake or weight gain. (Aksit 2002, Butte 1984, Cregan 1999, Mitoulas 2003, Mitoulas 2002.)

Going back to more on what you wrote:

"what ISN'T normal is that it slowly became more potent and turned green instead of mustard like it should be, and got very "slimy" or "mucusy" and It has been this way for about 2 1/2 months. Looking at his weights, this happened about when his weight gain started slowing.

So I did a little reading about it and I know he isn't lactose intolerant because I tried taking dairy out of my diet and it didn't change his wieght or his stools."

That sounds like a diary issue. It is NOT lactose intolerance, it is a sensitivity to the protein in dairy. (it is possible it is a different food, like wheat or eggs, but dairy is most common, like 80% of the time).

How long did you take dairy out of your diet? Did you read all of your food labels and avoid hidden diary as well? It can take two weeks for dairy to completely clear from you and baby's bodies. 

When baby got the rice cereal, did he get anything else? Like, did you mix the cereal with formula? The fact that this all happened at the same time the rice cereal was introduced may be key. It is well documented that giving solids before 4 months can trigger allergies. It can sensitize susceptible babies to certain foods. It is possible that the early introduction of rice triggered a rice allergy (not common, but it does happen). Do you eat much rice?

Take a look at this article on allergies and breastfeeding:

http://www.lalecheleague.org/llleaderweb/lv/lvaugsep97p75.html

BlessingsMama
by on Nov. 17, 2012 at 11:47 AM
I agree. I wouldn't rule out milk allergy just yet. My son has dairy intolerance and I have never drank milk. It took aboit 3 weeks of cutting out dairy containing products before I saw improvement. It was affecting his poop, made him gassy, he projectile vomitted on ocassion, and would get full body eczema rashes. Even now at 20 months old if I or if he eat anything containing dairy it affects his poop and gives him ezcema.


Quoting collinsmommy0:

But milk or milk products are in almost everything processed - bread, cereals, cheese, fast food, almost any item in a restaurant, smoothies, etc.



Kellymom has a list of over 15 'hidden dairy' items that are in products & people don't realize it's got milk in it.




Quoting hillelbebop:

I dont drink milk and he never spits up wierdly enough... very seldomly when he does its just a tiny dribble after a burp.






Quoting collinsmommy0:

I'm just going to throw it out there - is he possibly allergic to cows milk? My son wasn't gaining weight & once I quit all milk & milk products, he started gaining weight. He was below the charts until I quit at 4 months & gained about 6 pounds in 8 weeks after the milk was out of our systems.







Other symptoms (which sometimes show up, sometimes dont) - excema, spit up/reflux, low weight gain, green mucousy poop


Posted on CafeMom Mobile
hillelbebop
by on Nov. 17, 2012 at 12:24 PM
Thanks for all the info! I took dairy out for a month and no change. Also, he hate srice cereal so he would just spit it out no matter what i put in it. So Ive been feeding him mostly sweet poatoes, carrots, and sweet peas. I will try rice cereal and baby oatmeal again when there are other things I can mix with it other thwn formula or breastmilk since i cant pump. But the big question is if it is a sensitivity would that effect his weight gain? Since he doesnt eat for really long as of late and hes not super satosfied doesnt that mean im not making enough? This i snow really confusing me because everywhere else i have real not enough fats in your breastmilk will contribute to all the symptoms he is having (his stools and slow weight gwin but great development) im not sure what else it could be??? Im so stumped im getting scared again :(


Quoting maggiemom2000:

M conclusion is: although I don't have an oversupply, I think I have an abundance of foremilk and not enough hindmilk,

This is not possible. The only reason why baby gets too much foremilk and not enough hindmilk is if there is so much milk in the breast that baby cannot drain the breast. If you don't have an oversupply, then baby cannot be getting too much foremilk.

whether that means I let down too early or let down too slowly, he might not be getting the fatty hindmilk (growth) and filling up on foremilk (brain and development) which makes so much sense now that I read that little article!

Actually ALL milk makes babies grow. Babies do not need to get hindmilk in order to grow. In fact, when mom has oversupply and baby is getting little or no hindmilk, these babies almost always have above average weight gain.

Please let me know what y'all think. 

I kindly disagree with your conclusion :-)

Let me explain some more:

from http://kellymom.com/nutrition/milk/change-milkfat/

Average calorie & fat content of human milk

The average calorie content of human milk is 22 kcal/oz. Caloric content varies widely throughout each feeding and the day, however, due to changing fat content. The amount of fat in human milk changes dramatically during each feeding and throughout the day, since fat content depends on the degree of emptyness of the breast (empty breast = high fat, full breast = low fat). The average fat content of human milk is 1.2 grams/oz.

Calorie & Fat Content of Human Milk
 AverageRange
Energy22 kcal/oz13 – 35 kcal/oz
75 kcal/100 mL45 – 119 kcal/100 mL
Fat (total lipids)1.2 g/oz0.6 – 1.5 g/oz
4.2 g/100 mL2 – 5 g/100 mL
3-5%1-10%
References: 
Hamosh 1991, p. 118; Jelliffe & Jelliffe 1978; Lawrence 1999, p. 108, 305, 738.

What affects the amount of fat and calories in a mother’s milk?

  • Mom’s diet? The research tells us that mom’s diet doesnotaffect the average amount of fat or calories in her milk. However, mom can change the types of fat in her milk by altering the types of fats that she eats (Lawrence 1999, p. 106-113, 300-305; Hamosh 1996, Hamosh 1991, p. 123-124). An increase of one fatty acid could generally be expected to occur concurrently with a decrease in another. For example, one study has shown that black mothers in South Africa who eat a traditional maize diet have less monunsaturated fatty acid in their milk than urban mothers who consumed more animal proteins and fats (van der Westhuyzen 1988).
  • The degree of emptiness of the breast is what research has shown to drive breastmilk fat content, and thus calorie content. The fuller the breast, the lower the fat content of the milk; The emptier the breast, the higher the fat content of the milk (Daly 1993). For more information see I’m confused about foremilk and hindmilk – how does this work? and How does milk production work?
    *FULL
    Breast
     = LOWER
    Fat
    Content
    &SLOWER
    Milk
    Production
    *EMPTY
    Breast
     = HIGHER
    Fat
    Content
    &FASTER
    Milk
    Production
  • Breast compression has been shown to increase fat content of milk (Stutte 1988). See Breast compression for more information.

 

The above information tells us that milk fat may be more effectively increased through ‘mechanical’means (i.e. longer & more frequent feeding, massage, breast compression, expressing foremilk before nursing) than by changing mom’s diet.

See How might I increase baby’s weight gain? for details on increasing baby’s intake at the breast. 

Does the amount of fat in mom’s milk make a difference when it comes to baby’s growth?

The research tells us that baby’s milk intake (the volume of milk – not the amount of fat in that milk) is the only thing that has been correlated with infant growth in exclusively breastfed babies. As noted earlier, average fat content of human milk is highly variable, but has not proven to be significant when calculating baby’s total energy intake or weight gain. (Aksit 2002, Butte 1984, Cregan 1999, Mitoulas 2003, Mitoulas 2002.)

Going back to more on what you wrote:

"what ISN'T normal is that it slowly became more potent and turned green instead of mustard like it should be, and got very "slimy" or "mucusy" and It has been this way for about 2 1/2 months. Looking at his weights, this happened about when his weight gain started slowing.

So I did a little reading about it and I know he isn't lactose intolerant because I tried taking dairy out of my diet and it didn't change his wieght or his stools."

That sounds like a diary issue. It is NOT lactose intolerance, it is a sensitivity to the protein in dairy. (it is possible it is a different food, like wheat or eggs, but dairy is most common, like 80% of the time).

How long did you take dairy out of your diet? Did you read all of your food labels and avoid hidden diary as well? It can take two weeks for dairy to completely clear from you and baby's bodies. 

When baby got the rice cereal, did he get anything else? Like, did you mix the cereal with formula? The fact that this all happened at the same time the rice cereal was introduced may be key. It is well documented that giving solids before 4 months can trigger allergies. It can sensitize susceptible babies to certain foods. It is possible that the early introduction of rice triggered a rice allergy (not common, but it does happen). Do you eat much rice?

Take a look at this article on allergies and breastfeeding:

http://www.lalecheleague.org/llleaderweb/lv/lvaugsep97p75.html


Posted on the NEW CafeMom Mobile
tabi_cat1023
by Group Mod - Tabitha on Nov. 17, 2012 at 12:50 PM


Quoting hillelbebop:

My baby boy is so little I cry. For some reason he's not gaining weight. He is now at 0.02 percentile and weighs 10lbs 9 oz and is almost 6 months old. His doctor made me feel so guilty for wanting to keep bfing even though he is not gaining adequaste weight. She had me start him on solids at 3 months and he ate them well but was so constipated I had to stop. She called ECI and has diagnosed him with "Failure to Thrive". This terrifies me. He was born via c-section and I did have a time when I wasn't making enough milk so I took some fenugreek and got it back up, but yet again I feel like he is not eating for long enough and isn't always satisfied lately. I feel like a total failure. With my first son I could not bf because he was born so prematurely and I got blood clotts which cut off my milk supply but this time I was so excited about nursing and he latches great and eats great but now not long enough (maybe 10 mins in total) and I have a hard time telling if I'm full or not. I don't know what to do, I don't want to formula feed and I really want him to get as much breastmilk as possible.

ECI came yesterday and she said he is developmentally ahead of his age, but physically he's very small. I started him on solids yet again and this time it's going better, she said to add 1/4 tsp of oil to his foods to up calorie intake and said she is not having me give him formula YET to see if this will work. But I'm so riddled with guilt and worry that I am beside myself. Have any of you ever just had a small baby? Or problems bfing? I think I'm going to take more fenugreek capsules and lots of Mother's Milk tea and more water and see if it helps but if it doesn't should I just throw in the towel and start formula feeding?

I love him so much I just want him to be healthy and happy and thrive. He loves the bf cuddle time so much idk if I could bare to give it up! Any suggestions or advice? anything would be sooo helpful!

I am adding a few pictures of him, keep in mind in the one in only the diaper he had just taken in a huge breath and scrunched his chest up to his chin, hence why there is no neck lol


Edit:: He was born 6lbs 8oz came home weighing 6lbs even, at his 1 weeks weigh in he gained about 4 oz, his 1 month he was a lottle over 7 lbs, his 3 month he was 9lbs, his 4 months 9lbs 10oz, 4 1/2 months 10lbs 1 oz, and now 5 1/2 months he is 10 lbs 9oz. 

He has 8 wet diapers usually

Eats 9 times in 24 hrs, he set his own schedule since he came home so every 2-3 hrs during the day, and twice at night (once at midnight - I wake him up, and once at 6am - he wakes up, then 8am, 11am, etc...) ON DEMAND but he made up his own schedule and has been on the same once since he was a month old, he gets hungry at the same times every day and is very active and when its not time to nurse he sometimes has his binkie and sometimes doesn't.

Tried solids at 3 months, stopped after a week, started again slowly about a week ago, and it is going well. he eats about an ounce and a half a day, once at 10am and again at 7pm

He has perfect latch, never any tongue problems.

He has had numerous blood tests, all came out normal.

Pumping is EXCRUCIATING and I do not get anything from pumping, whether it be handheld or electric, I think it'e because of my large breasts and large nipples, I have tried many kinds and it is too painful and even after 30 minutes on ONE side I get maybe a few drops to 1/4 oz.

Developmentally he can almost sit on his own, he can lift himself up when on his stomach, babbles, sucks his toes, tracks very well, etc.

When it comes to his solid foods, he is doing better with them, he LOVES them and the nutritionist suggested to put oil in his foods and that alone seems to be helping with the constipation problem he had before, I use coconut oil. His bowl movements are normal.

Anything else just let me know and I will do my best to add it in. Please let me know what y'all think. Thanks!

*Edit 2*

Thank you everyone for your kind words, support, and encouragement. Most of what I see advice wise is just what I needed to hear.

After reading all your comments, I started to think more objectively. I realized that since he was a month old his stools have been spaced more apart, which I know is normal (once every 3 days) but what ISN'T normal is that it slowly became more potent and turned green instead of mustard like it should be, and got very "slimy" or "mucusy" and It has been this way for about 2 1/2 months. Looking at his weights, this happened about when his weight gain started slowing.

So I did a little reading about it and I know he isn't lactose intolerant because I tried taking dairy out of my diet and it didn't change his wieght or his stools. I know that one of you said that foremilk and hindmilk has nothing to do with weight, but in this article (http://www.llli.org/faq/foremilk.html) from the LLL they say it is. I also recall that his ECI nutricionist said the only 2 things it could be (since everything else was ruled out) is insufficient fats in my milk OK that right there to me means STOP listen to this person..ignorant and uneducated about breastmilk means NO advice taken from them again!! THIS IS WRONGor problems with let downyeah doubt it. I'm thinking ti's beginning to be both.

M conclusion is: although I don't have an oversupply, I think I have an abundance of foremilk and not enough hindmilk, whether that means I let down too early or let down too slowly, he might not be getting the fatty hindmilk (growth) and filling up on foremilk (brain and development) which makes so much sense now that I read that little articleI still dont think you understand foremilk and hindmilk..ALL milk is the same. its all the same to start off with, as it moves forward in the breast fat attaches to the inside of the ducts and thus if milk sits in the breast more fat is deposited and not left in the milk, if you nurse often that milk moves so fast that the fat content is higher.  Studies have shown that its the QUANTITY of the milk no foremilk/hindmilk that actually causes growth and weight gain! Please let me know what y'all think. I'm so sorry this has become such a long post thanks so much for reading all the way and helping me! i love cafemom!

I am thinking you just have a small child, BUT green a mucuosy poop could mean dairy intollerance.  They had me adding oil and butter to my first EBF babies food, didnt do a THING to help with weight gain.  BEST thing to do if you want to see higher gain is nurse more often and give high calorie solids like avacado after a full nursing.  Thats IT


robbinsroost
by Member on Nov. 17, 2012 at 1:04 PM

I would suggest you get him checked for Celiac Disease as well as cutting all dairy from your diet. Celiac Disease causes FTT in infants.

preacherskid
by Silver Member on Nov. 17, 2012 at 1:21 PM
1 mom liked this

Did you take all hidden out as well?  My older dd is so sensitive that I had to cut all hidden dairy, down to "may contain traces" from my diet and hers.  She is four now and a food that is cross contaminated with trace amounts of any dairy protein sets her off.  Yes a sensitivity will affect weight gain if it is severe enough to cause improper absorption during digestion.  When I cut dairy from my diet I gained weight- turns out I have had a dairy sensitivity for some time, and all that milk everyone told me to drink was doing the opposite of what was desired.  I would skip the cereal altogether to be honest- stick with high nutrient foods, baby cereal is not high in nutrients or calories, and a child with an already sensitive tummy will not digest them well, voice of experience here.

His not acting satisfied is normal- it means he is growing.  A quiet alsways satisfied baby is usually a sick baby.  The stools do make me think of an allergy as well- both my girls get them when they are exposed to an allergen or sensitive food.  You may need to start a food diary, log everything you eat and he eats, as well as when he has a green/slimy/mucousy stool, and do that for a while until you see a pattern develop.  That is how we diagnosed odd's dairy allergy, and ydd's soy sensitivity as well as her cinnamon allergy.  Testing is not very accurate this young, so a diary to find patterns is the best if you think it might be a sensitivity.

Take a deep breath.  Relax a bit.  He is still growing and developing.  Sometimes it takes a while to find why something is happening.  Take it one day at a time, and remember you can do this.

Quoting hillelbebop:

Thanks for all the info! I took dairy out for a month and no change. Also, he hate srice cereal so he would just spit it out no matter what i put in it. So Ive been feeding him mostly sweet poatoes, carrots, and sweet peas. I will try rice cereal and baby oatmeal again when there are other things I can mix with it other thwn formula or breastmilk since i cant pump. But the big question is if it is a sensitivity would that effect his weight gain? Since he doesnt eat for really long as of late and hes not super satosfied doesnt that mean im not making enough? This i snow really confusing me because everywhere else i have real not enough fats in your breastmilk will contribute to all the symptoms he is having (his stools and slow weight gwin but great development) im not sure what else it could be??? Im so stumped im getting scared again :(


Quoting maggiemom2000:

M conclusion is: although I don't have an oversupply, I think I have an abundance of foremilk and not enough hindmilk,

This is not possible. The only reason why baby gets too much foremilk and not enough hindmilk is if there is so much milk in the breast that baby cannot drain the breast. If you don't have an oversupply, then baby cannot be getting too much foremilk.

whether that means I let down too early or let down too slowly, he might not be getting the fatty hindmilk (growth) and filling up on foremilk (brain and development) which makes so much sense now that I read that little article!

Actually ALL milk makes babies grow. Babies do not need to get hindmilk in order to grow. In fact, when mom has oversupply and baby is getting little or no hindmilk, these babies almost always have above average weight gain.

Please let me know what y'all think. 

I kindly disagree with your conclusion :-)

Let me explain some more:

from http://kellymom.com/nutrition/milk/change-milkfat/

Average calorie & fat content of human milk

The average calorie content of human milk is 22 kcal/oz. Caloric content varies widely throughout each feeding and the day, however, due to changing fat content. The amount of fat in human milk changes dramatically during each feeding and throughout the day, since fat content depends on the degree of emptyness of the breast (empty breast = high fat, full breast = low fat). The average fat content of human milk is 1.2 grams/oz.

Calorie & Fat Content of Human Milk
 AverageRange
Energy22 kcal/oz13 – 35 kcal/oz
75 kcal/100 mL45 – 119 kcal/100 mL
Fat (total lipids)1.2 g/oz0.6 – 1.5 g/oz
4.2 g/100 mL2 – 5 g/100 mL
3-5%1-10%
References: 
Hamosh 1991, p. 118; Jelliffe & Jelliffe 1978; Lawrence 1999, p. 108, 305, 738.

What affects the amount of fat and calories in a mother’s milk?

  • Mom’s diet? The research tells us that mom’s diet doesnotaffect the average amount of fat or calories in her milk. However, mom can change the types of fat in her milk by altering the types of fats that she eats (Lawrence 1999, p. 106-113, 300-305; Hamosh 1996, Hamosh 1991, p. 123-124). An increase of one fatty acid could generally be expected to occur concurrently with a decrease in another. For example, one study has shown that black mothers in South Africa who eat a traditional maize diet have less monunsaturated fatty acid in their milk than urban mothers who consumed more animal proteins and fats (van der Westhuyzen 1988).
  • The degree of emptiness of the breast is what research has shown to drive breastmilk fat content, and thus calorie content. The fuller the breast, the lower the fat content of the milk; The emptier the breast, the higher the fat content of the milk (Daly 1993). For more information see I’m confused about foremilk and hindmilk – how does this work? and How does milk production work?
    *FULL
    Breast
     = LOWER
    Fat
    Content
    &SLOWER
    Milk
    Production
    *EMPTY
    Breast
     = HIGHER
    Fat
    Content
    &FASTER
    Milk
    Production
  • Breast compression has been shown to increase fat content of milk (Stutte 1988). See Breast compression for more information.


The above information tells us that milk fat may be more effectively increased through ‘mechanical’means (i.e. longer & more frequent feeding, massage, breast compression, expressing foremilk before nursing) than by changing mom’s diet.

See How might I increase baby’s weight gain? for details on increasing baby’s intake at the breast. 

Does the amount of fat in mom’s milk make a difference when it comes to baby’s growth?

The research tells us that baby’s milk intake (the volume of milk – not the amount of fat in that milk) is the only thing that has been correlated with infant growth in exclusively breastfed babies. As noted earlier, average fat content of human milk is highly variable, but has not proven to be significant when calculating baby’s total energy intake or weight gain. (Aksit 2002, Butte 1984, Cregan 1999, Mitoulas 2003, Mitoulas 2002.)

Going back to more on what you wrote:

"what ISN'T normal is that it slowly became more potent and turned green instead of mustard like it should be, and got very "slimy" or "mucusy" and It has been this way for about 2 1/2 months. Looking at his weights, this happened about when his weight gain started slowing.

So I did a little reading about it and I know he isn't lactose intolerant because I tried taking dairy out of my diet and it didn't change his wieght or his stools."

That sounds like a diary issue. It is NOT lactose intolerance, it is a sensitivity to the protein in dairy. (it is possible it is a different food, like wheat or eggs, but dairy is most common, like 80% of the time).

How long did you take dairy out of your diet? Did you read all of your food labels and avoid hidden diary as well? It can take two weeks for dairy to completely clear from you and baby's bodies. 

When baby got the rice cereal, did he get anything else? Like, did you mix the cereal with formula? The fact that this all happened at the same time the rice cereal was introduced may be key. It is well documented that giving solids before 4 months can trigger allergies. It can sensitize susceptible babies to certain foods. It is possible that the early introduction of rice triggered a rice allergy (not common, but it does happen). Do you eat much rice?

Take a look at this article on allergies and breastfeeding:

http://www.lalecheleague.org/llleaderweb/lv/lvaugsep97p75.html



collinsmommy0
by Gold Member on Nov. 17, 2012 at 1:52 PM
Also most formulas have milk or traces of milk in them so if he's getting any then he has milk in his system.
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hillelbebop
by on Nov. 17, 2012 at 1:55 PM

I understand the whole foremilk/hindmilk thing, what I'm trying to really say i that maybe there is not enough fat proteins releasing into my milk, so his growth is slowed because he isnt getting enough of the fatty hindmilk during his nursing. What y'all are saying makes sense, I will try to pay close attention to labels and take out all dairy. This is gonna be super difficult though this means I'll have to radically changing my cooking strategies lol On monday morning I'm changing his doctor and making an appointment immediately and see if they can test my breastmilk and test him for anything that could cause this and see a lactation consultant about it all. 

Quoting tabi_cat1023:


Quoting hillelbebop:

My baby boy is so little I cry. For some reason he's not gaining weight. He is now at 0.02 percentile and weighs 10lbs 9 oz and is almost 6 months old. His doctor made me feel so guilty for wanting to keep bfing even though he is not gaining adequaste weight. She had me start him on solids at 3 months and he ate them well but was so constipated I had to stop. She called ECI and has diagnosed him with "Failure to Thrive". This terrifies me. He was born via c-section and I did have a time when I wasn't making enough milk so I took some fenugreek and got it back up, but yet again I feel like he is not eating for long enough and isn't always satisfied lately. I feel like a total failure. With my first son I could not bf because he was born so prematurely and I got blood clotts which cut off my milk supply but this time I was so excited about nursing and he latches great and eats great but now not long enough (maybe 10 mins in total) and I have a hard time telling if I'm full or not. I don't know what to do, I don't want to formula feed and I really want him to get as much breastmilk as possible.

ECI came yesterday and she said he is developmentally ahead of his age, but physically he's very small. I started him on solids yet again and this time it's going better, she said to add 1/4 tsp of oil to his foods to up calorie intake and said she is not having me give him formula YET to see if this will work. But I'm so riddled with guilt and worry that I am beside myself. Have any of you ever just had a small baby? Or problems bfing? I think I'm going to take more fenugreek capsules and lots of Mother's Milk tea and more water and see if it helps but if it doesn't should I just throw in the towel and start formula feeding?

I love him so much I just want him to be healthy and happy and thrive. He loves the bf cuddle time so much idk if I could bare to give it up! Any suggestions or advice? anything would be sooo helpful!

I am adding a few pictures of him, keep in mind in the one in only the diaper he had just taken in a huge breath and scrunched his chest up to his chin, hence why there is no neck lol


Edit:: He was born 6lbs 8oz came home weighing 6lbs even, at his 1 weeks weigh in he gained about 4 oz, his 1 month he was a lottle over 7 lbs, his 3 month he was 9lbs, his 4 months 9lbs 10oz, 4 1/2 months 10lbs 1 oz, and now 5 1/2 months he is 10 lbs 9oz. 

He has 8 wet diapers usually

Eats 9 times in 24 hrs, he set his own schedule since he came home so every 2-3 hrs during the day, and twice at night (once at midnight - I wake him up, and once at 6am - he wakes up, then 8am, 11am, etc...) ON DEMAND but he made up his own schedule and has been on the same once since he was a month old, he gets hungry at the same times every day and is very active and when its not time to nurse he sometimes has his binkie and sometimes doesn't.

Tried solids at 3 months, stopped after a week, started again slowly about a week ago, and it is going well. he eats about an ounce and a half a day, once at 10am and again at 7pm

He has perfect latch, never any tongue problems.

He has had numerous blood tests, all came out normal.

Pumping is EXCRUCIATING and I do not get anything from pumping, whether it be handheld or electric, I think it'e because of my large breasts and large nipples, I have tried many kinds and it is too painful and even after 30 minutes on ONE side I get maybe a few drops to 1/4 oz.

Developmentally he can almost sit on his own, he can lift himself up when on his stomach, babbles, sucks his toes, tracks very well, etc.

When it comes to his solid foods, he is doing better with them, he LOVES them and the nutritionist suggested to put oil in his foods and that alone seems to be helping with the constipation problem he had before, I use coconut oil. His bowl movements are normal.

Anything else just let me know and I will do my best to add it in. Please let me know what y'all think. Thanks!

*Edit 2*

Thank you everyone for your kind words, support, and encouragement. Most of what I see advice wise is just what I needed to hear.

After reading all your comments, I started to think more objectively. I realized that since he was a month old his stools have been spaced more apart, which I know is normal (once every 3 days) but what ISN'T normal is that it slowly became more potent and turned green instead of mustard like it should be, and got very "slimy" or "mucusy" and It has been this way for about 2 1/2 months. Looking at his weights, this happened about when his weight gain started slowing.

So I did a little reading about it and I know he isn't lactose intolerant because I tried taking dairy out of my diet and it didn't change his wieght or his stools. I know that one of you said that foremilk and hindmilk has nothing to do with weight, but in this article (http://www.llli.org/faq/foremilk.html) from the LLL they say it is. I also recall that his ECI nutricionist said the only 2 things it could be (since everything else was ruled out) is insufficient fats in my milk OK that right there to me means STOP listen to this person..ignorant and uneducated about breastmilk means NO advice taken from them again!! THIS IS WRONGor problems with let downyeah doubt it. I'm thinking ti's beginning to be both.

M conclusion is: although I don't have an oversupply, I think I have an abundance of foremilk and not enough hindmilk, whether that means I let down too early or let down too slowly, he might not be getting the fatty hindmilk (growth) and filling up on foremilk (brain and development) which makes so much sense now that I read that little articleI still dont think you understand foremilk and hindmilk..ALL milk is the same. its all the same to start off with, as it moves forward in the breast fat attaches to the inside of the ducts and thus if milk sits in the breast more fat is deposited and not left in the milk, if you nurse often that milk moves so fast that the fat content is higher.  Studies have shown that its the QUANTITY of the milk no foremilk/hindmilk that actually causes growth and weight gain! Please let me know what y'all think. I'm so sorry this has become such a long post thanks so much for reading all the way and helping me! i love cafemom!

I am thinking you just have a small child, BUT green a mucuosy poop could mean dairy intollerance.  They had me adding oil and butter to my first EBF babies food, didnt do a THING to help with weight gain.  BEST thing to do if you want to see higher gain is nurse more often and give high calorie solids like avacado after a full nursing.  Thats IT


hillelbebop
by on Nov. 17, 2012 at 2:01 PM

I exclusively breastfeed, I made it very clear to ECI that formula is a last resort. He had a tiny bit sleedomly when I was having problems with my supply and he was going thru a growth spurt, but since then he has had none. It's been about 3 months since he's had any.

Quoting collinsmommy0:

Also most formulas have milk or traces of milk in them so if he's getting any then he has milk in his system.


confused632
by Member on Nov. 17, 2012 at 2:06 PM

I can say with the green slimy stools ( my 3rd child had them and he was bf only)  The way I helped fix it is to do what is called block feeding.  Every time he wants to nurse use the same side for 3 or 4 feedings or so many hours.  It will regulate your supply and get him the fatty milk!

I can also say my nephew is super small and that is just the way he is.  He has had all kinds of test run because he is so small but he is healthy as he can be and barely on the charts as well.

Good luck and DO NOT quit nursing please.  There are lots of things it could be so keep asking questions until you find out.

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