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Breastfeeding Moms Breastfeeding Moms

Weight

Posted by on Nov. 19, 2012 at 2:02 AM
  • 17 Replies
I need to know. Can your breast milk not have enough calories in it for baby? How can you make it higher without using formula? How can you get a lazy baby to gain weight? My ds eats good for about 5mins and then he falls asleep and sucks a little here and there. In a month of eating this way he only gained 2 oz. What can I do to get him to actually eat and get all the milk out of me. I am worried he is not getting the higher calorie hind milk he needs.
by on Nov. 19, 2012 at 2:02 AM
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audmom1218
by Silver Member on Nov. 19, 2012 at 4:57 AM
How old? Has he been checked by a Ped ent/Ped dentist or ibclc for tongue tie? What's complete weight history? How are Diapers? any solids introduced? It's extremely rare for moms milk to not be enough. Usually if baby is making enough diapers its a baby issue not a milk issue.
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shortyali
by Alicia on Nov. 19, 2012 at 7:10 AM
All of the above. With the weight history we are looking for birth, lowest, and everything to current. Also what kind if delivery did you have? Was it a section or vag. delivery? Did you have fluids?
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ry22dance
by on Nov. 19, 2012 at 9:54 AM
Ds was born 7 lbs 11 oz. At four days old he was 6 lbs 13 oz. At 3 weeks old he was 7 lbs 3 oz. At a month he was 8 lbs 4 oz. From three to four weeks he had thrush so I pumped and bottle fed the breast milk. Also at three weeks went to LC and she said he was a lazy eater. He eats real good for about five mins and then falls a sleep. I have to keep touching him to wake him up. At 2 months old he weighed 8 lbs 15.5 oz. At three months old he know weighs 9lbs 2 oz. The put him in the hospital for two days on a high calorie diet and when he left he was 10 lbs 4 oz. I can pump 3-5 oz. The LC said he wasn't tougne tied. He has a great suck and latch. He just falls a sleep to fast. I feel like he falls a sleep and doesn't draw out the hind mik which has the rich calories he needs. What can I do to get him to stay awake? I feel like such a horrible mother that I can't provide for him.
Quoting audmom1218:

How old? Has he been checked by a Ped ent/Ped dentist or ibclc for tongue tie? What's complete weight history? How are Diapers? any solids introduced? It's extremely rare for moms milk to not be enough. Usually if baby is making enough diapers its a baby issue not a milk issue.

gdiamante
by Group Mod - Gina on Nov. 19, 2012 at 10:42 AM
2 moms liked this

I'm going to do some math as we go along. But no. It's NOT possible for your milk to not have enough calories.

Quoting ry22dance:

Ds was born 7 lbs 11 oz. At four days old he was 6 lbs 13 oz.
123 ounces birth weight.  Reported lowest weight 109 ounces.
At 3 weeks old he was 7 lbs 3 oz.
115 ounces. EXPECTED three week weight was 117 so just a tad lighter than we'd like to see, but I vaguely remember you having some issues? Reading on...
At a month he was 8 lbs 4 oz.
132 ounces. Remember that week one is the loss week and we're looking for 12 ounces gain from your reported lowest weight of 109 ounces. He gained 23 ounces in that time, so at week three things turned around. Four ounces per week is all we look for.
From three to four weeks he had thrush so I pumped and bottle fed the breast milk. Also at three weeks went to LC and she said he was a lazy eater. He eats real good for about five mins and then falls a sleep.
That's normal infant behavior. Not lazy. NORMAL.
I have to keep touching him to wake him up. At 2 months old he weighed 8 lbs 15.5 oz.
Half an ounce off what he should have been. Nine pounds even was what you were looking for.
At three months old he know weighs 9lbs 2 oz.
146 ounces at 12 weeks. Average gain of 3.36 ounces per week which is not much off expected gain. Not enough for hospitalization. I would have expected him to gain 44 ounces in that time. He gained 38 ounces. A six ounce difference is not enough to be worried about, really. They have you jumping through hoops where it's not needed.
The put him in the hospital for two days on a high calorie diet and when he left he was 10 lbs 4 oz.
Oh, cripes. Did they think he was a GOOSE destined to become foie gras? 
I can pump 3-5 oz. The LC said he wasn't tougne tied. He has a great suck and latch. He just falls a sleep to fast. I feel like he falls a sleep and doesn't draw out the hind mik which has the rich calories he needs. What can I do to get him to stay awake? I feel like such a horrible mother that I can't provide for him.
Stop worrying about it. Honestly. You're providing fine. His gain was not bad overall. He's supposed to gain an average of one pound per month over his lifetime. With a lowest weight of 6 pounds 13 ounces, he shouldn't even be ten pounds yet.
Now, I want you to look at the baby and not the scale. Is he making milestones? How are his dipes? Those are the markers that COUNT. Not the scale.
In fact, I want you to google an article by Dr. Jay Gordon titled "Look At The Baby, Not The Scale." You'll never put your child on a scale again!
gdiamante
by Group Mod - Gina on Nov. 19, 2012 at 10:43 AM

Now, I will suggest wake up techniques. Strip him to the diaper. Or even no diaper. Get in the bath with him and give him free access to the breast. Get in bed, do the same. Every single whimper he makes, stick the nipple in his mouth. **grin**

ry22dance
by on Nov. 19, 2012 at 11:14 AM

thanks for your help.  It makes me feel better.  I told this new doctor that we are at the his lowest weight was 6lbs 13oz.. but she instead is looking from his birth weight 7lbs. 11oz. she told me at this last check when he was 9lbs 2 oz. that he had only gained 23oz. since birth and at 90days old he should of gained 90oz.. Why would she say that? He was a c-sectiion baby. My last doctor even called CPS on me for neglecting him because of his weight.  Now they have a homecare specialest coming out twice a week to weigh him.  I am so worried that they might take him from me.  Why would he only gain 2oz. in a hole month? i have enough milk because when i pumped it and gave it to him he gained a pound and a ounce in a week. With this I dont see why i dont have enough calories. Its the same milk wether it comes from breast or i pump it. They did test at hosptial to see if there was anything wrong with him that would make him not gain weight anad it just came backk that he wasnt getting enough calories.

Quoting gdiamante:

I'm going to do some math as we go along. But no. It's NOT possible for your milk to not have enough calories.

Quoting ry22dance:

Ds was born 7 lbs 11 oz. At four days old he was 6 lbs 13 oz.
123 ounces birth weight.  Reported lowest weight 109 ounces.
At 3 weeks old he was 7 lbs 3 oz.
115 ounces. EXPECTED three week weight was 117 so just a tad lighter than we'd like to see, but I vaguely remember you having some issues? Reading on...
At a month he was 8 lbs 4 oz.
132 ounces. Remember that week one is the loss week and we're looking for 12 ounces gain from your reported lowest weight of 109 ounces. He gained 23 ounces in that time, so at week three things turned around. Four ounces per week is all we look for.
From three to four weeks he had thrush so I pumped and bottle fed the breast milk. Also at three weeks went to LC and she said he was a lazy eater. He eats real good for about five mins and then falls a sleep.
That's normal infant behavior. Not lazy. NORMAL.
I have to keep touching him to wake him up. At 2 months old he weighed 8 lbs 15.5 oz.
Half an ounce off what he should have been. Nine pounds even was what you were looking for.
At three months old he know weighs 9lbs 2 oz.
146 ounces at 12 weeks. Average gain of 3.36 ounces per week which is not much off expected gain. Not enough for hospitalization. I would have expected him to gain 44 ounces in that time. He gained 38 ounces. A six ounce difference is not enough to be worried about, really. They have you jumping through hoops where it's not needed.
The put him in the hospital for two days on a high calorie diet and when he left he was 10 lbs 4 oz.
Oh, cripes. Did they think he was a GOOSE destined to become foie gras? 
I can pump 3-5 oz. The LC said he wasn't tougne tied. He has a great suck and latch. He just falls a sleep to fast. I feel like he falls a sleep and doesn't draw out the hind mik which has the rich calories he needs. What can I do to get him to stay awake? I feel like such a horrible mother that I can't provide for him.
Stop worrying about it. Honestly. You're providing fine. His gain was not bad overall. He's supposed to gain an average of one pound per month over his lifetime. With a lowest weight of 6 pounds 13 ounces, he shouldn't even be ten pounds yet.
Now, I want you to look at the baby and not the scale. Is he making milestones? How are his dipes? Those are the markers that COUNT. Not the scale.
In fact, I want you to google an article by Dr. Jay Gordon titled "Look At The Baby, Not The Scale." You'll never put your child on a scale again!


gdiamante
by Group Mod - Gina on Nov. 19, 2012 at 11:31 AM


Quoting ry22dance:

thanks for your help.  It makes me feel better.  I told this new doctor that we are at the his lowest weight was 6lbs 13oz.. but she instead is looking from his birth weight 7lbs. 11oz.

Dummy doc.

she told me at this last check when he was 9lbs 2 oz. that he had only gained 23oz. since birth and at 90days old he should of gained 90oz..Why would she say that?

Because she's IGNORANT. Find a new doc. TODAY. She's trying to tell you baby should have gained one ounce per day from birth weight.. it doesn't work that way. They lose... and since he was a section baby 12% loss would be normal. And then they gain at a rate of 4-6 ounces per week.

Sadly, doctors can be the biggest hazard to infant health.

He was a c-sectiion baby. My last doctor even called CPS on me for neglecting him because of his weight.  Now they have a homecare specialest coming out twice a week to weigh him.  I am so worried that they might take him from me.  Why would he only gain 2oz. in a hole month?

That's actually the only thing I find concerning here.

i have enough milk because when i pumped it and gave it to him he gained a pound and a ounce in a week. With this I dont see why i dont have enough calories. Its the same milk wether it comes from breast or i pump it. They did test at hosptial to see if there was anything wrong with him that would make him not gain weight anad it just came backk that he wasnt getting enough calories.

Typically when there's slow gain like this it's either a nursing management problem (scheduling instead of demand feeding), a food sensitivity (dairy is notorious for causing poor gain) or a tongue tie. And docs typically don't know how to find ANY of those!

Your first stop is to find an Internationally Board Certified Lactation Consultant. Do it right now. http://www.ilca.org/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=3432  Get seen by her immediately.

aehanrahan
by Group Mod - Amy on Nov. 19, 2012 at 12:59 PM
I agree with everything said above. Find another doctor and a good IBCLC.
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K8wizzo
by Kate on Nov. 19, 2012 at 2:09 PM

This.  I would have that tongue checked again for a tie by an IBCLC, pediatric dentist or an ENT--the pattern of gain is making me suspect a milk transfer problem.  Lots of skin to skin time can increase his demand.  How often are you offering to nurse?  I would start offering every hour, or even more often until you see his gain coming back up.

Quoting aehanrahan:

I agree with everything said above. Find another doctor and a good IBCLC.


K8wizzo
by Kate on Nov. 19, 2012 at 2:15 PM

http://www.cwgenna.com/quickhelp.html

Is My Baby Tongue-tied?

Now that more mothers are breastfeeding, tongue-tie (ankyloglossia) is on the forefront of medical research again. Some tongue-tied babies breastfeed without difficulty, others cause their mother pain, don't get enough milk, or have difficulty swallowing properly and are very unhappy during and after feeding.

If you are concerned that your baby may be tongue-tied, the following may help you decide if you need more help. An IBCLC (International Board Certified Lactation Consultant) can help with breastfeeding, and many different dentists and doctors can help if your baby needs treatment for tongue-tie. See http://www.lowmilksupply.org/frenotomy.shtml for a list of doctors and dentists who are particularly good at diagnosing and treating tongue-tie.

The first thing to assess is whether your baby can stick out his or her tongue. If you touch your baby's lips, he will probably open his mouth. You can then touch the front of his lower gum with your fingertip. This makes him stick the tongue out. We want to see the tongue come out flat over the lip, without dipping down or pointing down. If your baby can only stick his tongue out when his mouth is closed, that can indicate a posterior (further back) tongue-tie.


Next, we want to see if your baby can lift her tongue way up to the roof of the mouth. All the way up is perfect, half way is enough for most babies to be able to breastfeed. Again, her mouth should be wide open. Most tongue-tied babies can only lift their tongues when their mouths are mostly closed.


Obvious and Sneakier Tongue-ties:

This baby (figure 3) has an obvious tongue-tie. You can see the membrane right at the front of the tongue, and you can see how it makes it hard for him to lift his tongue up.

figure 3

The baby in figure 4 is also tongue-tied. If you run your finger along the outside of a baby's lower gum, her tongue will try to follow. If the tongue twists like this, it's a sign of tongue-tie.

figure 4

The baby in figure 5 has a sneaky (posterior) tongue-tie. You can see that it is difficult to get a finger under the tongue. If you press on the front of the little membrane under the tongue (the frenulum), a tied tongue will pull down in the center like this. This shows that the frenulum is tight and does not allow the tongue to move well. This diagnostic trick is called the Murphy Maneuver after Dr. Jim Murphy of California.

figure 5

Figure 6 shows a very sneaky tongue-tie - a posterior or submucosal one. The frenulum (membrane holding the tongue down) is hiding behind the floor of the mouth (the oral mucosa). You can see that the tongue doesn't lift very well, and that the floor of the mouth is tented out a little.

figure 6
figure 7

Notice how when the baby in figure 6 tries to lift her tongue (figure 7), nothing at all is visible except the limited ability to lift the tongue up.

Again, some babies with posterior or submucosal tongue-tie can breastfeed, others have a lot of difficulty. Moms breast and nipple shape and milk supply can make things easier or more difficult for the baby.

The best way to diagnose a posterior tongue-tie is to lift the tongue with a grooved director. Doctors who treat tongue-tie usually have one.


The final thing to do is watch your baby cry. If only the edges of the tongue curl up like in figure 9, that's a sure sign that the frenulum is tight.

figure 9

Now that you have an idea whether your baby has normal tongue movement ability or not, you can decide what kind of help may be most useful.

A guide to latching your baby

Snuggle your baby against your body so he is tummy to tummy (front to front) and lean back comfortably. Most mothers like to hold the baby with the same side arm as they are nursing from, or with both hands. The more you lean back, the more gravity helps hold baby, and the less strain on your arms.


Babies find the breast by feel and smell. Cuddle your baby in a comfortable position so your nipple touches that cute notch right above her upper lip, and her chin snuggles against your breast.


She will then open her mouth wide.


It will look like she won't be able to get her upper lip past the nipple.

She'll tilt her head back a little bit and lunge in for a good mouthful. If her nose is blocked, snuggle her bottom close to your body and slide her a little toward your other breast.



If this doesn't work for you, try leaning even farther back, so your nipple points up in the air. Then turn your baby so he is laying on your chest, with his face aligned to the breast the same way as in the latch photos above.


If you need to shape your breast a little to define a better mouthful, you can do this with one finger above or below the nipple, or a finger above and a finger below.


If these things don't work, express milk very frequently (at least 8 times a day) to feed your baby, and get in-person help!

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