Feeding continuously and still unsatisfied

[sweet_pea_1116]

My son will be 3 weeks march 1st and this is the farthest I've gotten breastfeeding with my first my milk never came in. I saw a LC in the first week because my boobs seized up when my milk came in.
Anyway he was born at 8pds 2oz and is down to 7pds 4oz and have been doing weight checks but all he wants to do is nurse to the point he passes out on the boob and when I try to move him he wakes up screaming and attacks my boob with viscous sucks. I usually get the chance to pump 4x a day I have an Ameda pump I got through the hospital and will only have 2oz to show for all day and he chugs that down in one feeding like I was starving him. My little guy pees enough but will go 3-4 days without pooping and only poops because his pedi helps him poop.

I wonder about my supply because I can't get anything done or spend any time with my autistic 4year old because I'm always nursing (laundry and dishes everywhere).

[ncoates04]

Stop the bottles and stop the pumping.....your baby is trying to regulate your supply....100% normal newborn behavior....your best bet is to try to wear baby so you can get other things done..you will more likely than not have at least 3-4 weeks of this then it should start to get on a better time table....hang in there, its normal

[gdiamante]

Quoting sweet_pea_1116:

My son will be 3 weeks march 1st

Ah. Your title describes the normal three week old. I'd be worried if he behaved in ANY other way! But let's read on...

and this is the farthest I've gotten breastfeeding with my first my milk never came in. I saw a LC in the first week because my boobs seized up when my milk came in.
Anyway he was born at 8pds 2oz and is down to 7pds 4oz

130 ounces birth weight... for a vaginal birth expected loss is 13 ounces, c-sec would be a 16 ounce loss to 7/2.... when was this 7/4 weight recorded and were weights on the same scale? Weights form differing scales get tossed.

and have been doing weight checks but all he wants to do is nurse to the point he passes out on the boob

EXCELLENT!

and when I try to move him he wakes up screaming and attacks my boob with viscous sucks.

Heh heh... that's good too.

I usually get the chance to pump 4x a day

Why so much pumping? Going back to work?

I have an Ameda pump I got through the hospital and will only have 2oz to show for all day and he chugs that down in one feeding like I was starving him. My little guy pees enough but will go 3-4 days without pooping and only poops because his pedi helps him poop.

Save the bottles for when you're not there. He's supposed to stay on the breast. I would get him checked for tongue tie though. It's a VERY common issue, VERY easily fixed and usually causes what you see here. The pump output is not an issue... it never means a thing. The lack of poop is the most concerning.. ped helping him is NOT good.. can cause more problems down the line.

I wonder about my supply because I can't get anything done or spend any time with my autistic 4year old because I'm always nursing (laundry and dishes everywhere).

Stop the pumping. Put baby in a sling and then go about your business. Paper plates. Plastic forks. And laundry is what God put husbands on this earth for. **grin**

[PolishMamma2]

Its a juggling act the first few weeks. Your baby is trying to tell your body to produce more milk, stick it out. It gets better.

[SewingMamaLele]

Has he been checked for tougne tie?

Why is the pedi helping him to poop?    My daughter started going a week between poops at 3 weeks... It's early for it to happen, but it does.   If it's been like that all along, then I would be getting his mouth checked out for ties to make sure he's effectivly removing milk.

[maggiemom2000]

Whoa! Huge red flags here! 

Baby is not getting enough milk. He's still 14 oz below his birth weight? Not pooping everyday? 

First, you need to be pumping and supplementing MORE, not less.

Then you need to figure out why baby is not getting enough. The first thing to check for is tongue tie. My guess is there is something that is causing him to not be able to nurse effectively.

Your supply very likely is low due to baby's inability to nurse effectively.

It is also possible that baby is nursing well but your body is struggling to make the milk. Most common causes: IGT (insufficient glandular tissue), PCOS (hormonal issue), or low thyroid.

Either way, you need to pump and supplement more while you are trying to figure out the underlying cause of baby not getting enough. You really need to see a good IBCLC who has experience with suck disfiunction and tongue tie (if not she may say baby is fine when he's not).

[Mom2Just1]

It could be the 3 week growth spurt. (:  I nursed a lot through that one. He would fall asleep nursing all the time.  I nursed every hour through that one.  I would stop giving bottles and just nurse him.  My rule of thumb is during growth spurts baby gets boobs, no bottles.  He is trying to establish and regulate your supply.  

[sweet_pea_1116]

This has been going on for almost 2 weeks today he nursed from 10am-1pm with little 5-10 min breaks before My mom fed him some of the milk I pumped via syringe and then he slept for an hour before he woke and has been on my boobs or on my chest the rest of the day except for when I rush and go pee.

I've been looking at his tongue and will have his pedi check it tomorrow at his weight check because to me it looks like the tie goes almost to the tip of his tongue and he can't stick his tongue out past his lips.

[maggiemom2000]

Quoting sweet_pea_1116:

This has been going on for almost 2 weeks today he nursed from 10am-1pm with little 5-10 min breaks before My mom fed him some of the milk I pumped via syringe and then he slept for an hour before he woke and has been on my boobs or on my chest the rest of the day except for when I rush and go pee.

I've been looking at his tongue and will have his pedi check it tomorrow at his weight check because to me it looks like the tie goes almost to the tip of his tongue and he can't stick his tongue out past his lips.

Thisis probably your problem right here! Know when you ask your ped htat most know NOTHING about tongue tie. I can't tell you how many moms have told me their docs said TT was not a problem when it is!!

You need to get the TT clipped asap!

http://www.cwgenna.com/quickhelp.html

Is My Baby Tongue-tied?

Now that more mothers are breastfeeding, tongue-tie (ankyloglossia) is on the forefront of medical research again. Some tongue-tied babies breastfeed without difficulty, others cause their mother pain, don't get enough milk, or have difficulty swallowing properly and are very unhappy during and after feeding.

If you are concerned that your baby may be tongue-tied, the following may help you decide if you need more help. An IBCLC (International Board Certified Lactation Consultant) can help with breastfeeding, and many different dentists and doctors can help if your baby needs treatment for tongue-tie. Seehttp://www.lowmilksupply.org/frenotomy.shtml for a list of doctors and dentists who are particularly good at diagnosing and treating tongue-tie.

The first thing to assess is whether your baby can stick out his or her tongue. If you touch your baby's lips, he will probably open his mouth. You can then touch the front of his lower gum with your fingertip. This makes him stick the tongue out. We want to see the tongue come out flat over the lip, without dipping down or pointing down. If your baby can only stick his tongue out when his mouth is closed, that can indicate a posterior (further back) tongue-tie.

Next, we want to see if your baby can lift her tongue way up to the roof of the mouth. All the way up is perfect, half way is enough for most babies to be able to breastfeed. Again, her mouth should be wide open. Most tongue-tied babies can only lift their tongues when their mouths are mostly closed.

Obvious and Sneakier Tongue-ties:

This baby (figure 3) has an obvious tongue-tie. You can see the membrane right at the front of the tongue, and you can see how it makes it hard for him to lift his tongue up.

figure 3

The baby in figure 4 is also tongue-tied. If you run your finger along the outside of a baby's lower gum, her tongue will try to follow. If the tongue twists like this, it's a sign of tongue-tie.

figure 4

The baby in figure 5 has a sneaky (posterior) tongue-tie. You can see that it is difficult to get a finger under the tongue. If you press on the front of the little membrane under the tongue (the frenulum), a tied tongue will pull down in the center like this. This shows that the frenulum is tight and does not allow the tongue to move well. This diagnostic trick is called the Murphy Maneuver after Dr. Jim Murphy of California.

figure 5

Figure 6 shows a very sneaky tongue-tie - a posterior or submucosal one. The frenulum (membrane holding the tongue down) is hiding behind the floor of the mouth (the oral mucosa). You can see that the tongue doesn't lift very well, and that the floor of the mouth is tented out a little.

figure 6

figure 7

Notice how when the baby in figure 6 tries to lift her tongue (figure 7), nothing at all is visible except the limited ability to lift the tongue up.

Again, some babies with posterior or submucosal tongue-tie can breastfeed, others have a lot of difficulty. Moms breast and nipple shape and milk supply can make things easier or more difficult for the baby.

The best way to diagnose a posterior tongue-tie is to lift the tongue with a grooved director. Doctors who treat tongue-tie usually have one.

The final thing to do is watch your baby cry. If only the edges of the tongue curl up like in figure 9, that's a sure sign that the frenulum is tight.

figure 9

Now that you have an idea whether your baby has normal tongue movement ability or not, you can decide what kind of help may be most useful.

---

You can also take the Tongue-tie symptom questionare at Dr. James Ochi's site http://www.BabyTongueTie.com

A guide to latching your baby

Snuggle your baby against your body so he is tummy to tummy (front to front) and lean back comfortably. Most mothers like to hold the baby with the same side arm as they are nursing from, or with both hands. The more you lean back, the more gravity helps hold baby, and the less strain on your arms.

Babies find the breast by feel and smell. Cuddle your baby in a comfortable position so your nipple touches that cute notch right above her upper lip, and her chin snuggles against your breast.

She will then open her mouth wide.

It will look like she won't be able to get her upper lip past the nipple.

She'll tilt her head back a little bit and lunge in for a good mouthful. If her nose is blocked, snuggle her bottom close to your body and slide her a little toward your other breast.

If this doesn't work for you, try leaning even farther back, so your nipple points up in the air. Then turn your baby so he is laying on your chest, with his face aligned to the breast the same way as in the latch photos above.

If you need to shape your breast a little to define a better mouthful, you can do this with one finger above or below the nipple, or a finger above and a finger below.

If these things don't work, express milk very frequently (at least 8 times a day) to feed your baby, and get in-person help!

[maggiemom2000]

Link in this article on finding a doc to clip the TT:

Breastfeeding a Baby with Lip and Posterior Tongue Ties

Today I have a guest post from a mom, Diane Coombs of New Foundland, Canada, who shares her story on breastfeeding a baby with lip and tongue tie.

My baby girl is nine months old today! Our breastfeeding relationship got off to a rough start because of an undiagnosed posterior tongue tie and lip tie. The pediatrician in the hospital did not diagnose her, neither did our LC nor family doctor. I was told over and over it was 'poor latch' or thrush or 'lazy feeder.' All were incorrect. 

Scarlett was gagging, coughing, extremely gassy, and she 'clicked' with each suck, my poor nipples were being crushed and so badly abraded my daughter would spit up blood after feeding. Nursing was making her so tired, she was sleeping through feeds to conserve calories, and was losing weight in a vicious cycle. 

I researched what could be causing our issues, trusting my gut that there was something more wrong besides the diagnosis given. I went to a LLL meeting and met a mom whose story matched mine. She was unable to get her son treated locally so she went to see Dr. Kotlow, a pediatric dentist in Albany, NY - the leading expert in the field of tongue and lip tie. Immediately I got in touch with Dr. Kotlow. He diagnosed the problem via pictures I sent him, and I quickly booked our flight: 1500 miles from Eastern Canada to Albany. She was treated (laser revision) and immediately, she latched PERFECTLY! 

I am not saying each baby with latch issues is tongue or lip tied, (and not every baby with a lip and/or tongue tie has trouble breastfeeding) but if you are having problems, and seem to have no answers - research it and see if tongue tie (especially POSTERIOR tongue tie) and/or lip tie is the issue. Here are some places to start:

Posterior Tongue Tie Information

Diagnosing Tongue-Tie in a Breastfed Baby: Tight frenulum can cause painful breastfeeding and poor weight gain

Dr. Kotlow Articles on lip/tongue tie 

Find an IBCLC

How to spot tongue/lip ties & get free expert advice

Self Help for tongue tie and latch (photos and descriptions which may help you find tongue tie yourself, plus tips on improving latch)

Breastfeeding with an upper labial tie (lip tie)

Trouble Breastfeeding? Look in your baby's mouth. (Overcoming lip and tongue tie with an older baby)

To share with a reluctant provider: The American Academy of Pediatrics' newsletter on tongue tie and breastfeeding

I hope you don't have to jump through as many hoops as we did, and I hope you have someone closer to you who is an expert in the field. See the list of frenotomy surgeons here to find one near you: http://www.lowmilksupply.org/frenotomy.shtml

Cheers, and happy breastfeeding! 

She's about 7.5 months here. 


WARNING ON NEXT PIC: Post revision scar of the lip tie - might make some squeamish! Before's on the left, after's on the right. The whole look of her face changed! The before pics were takes two weeks before the after. 

Her posterior tongue tie - very hard to diagnose unless you know what to look for. 

Here is a video on finding a posterior tongue tie:

If you need help with breastfeeding, or suspect your baby has a tongue or lip tie, a Breastfeeding Counselor , La Leche League Leader, Nursing Mother’s Counsel or International Board Certified Lactation Consultant may be able to help.

[Baby_Avas_Momma]

Get that tie clipped ASAP! And don't let any doctor tell you it's not an issue, he is having issues transferring milk!